(02-10-2024 11:34 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 12:35 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-09-2024 10:34 PM)TripleA Wrote:  News flash. Many in Congress would also go to jail.

And this is coming from someone (me) who held a Top Secret classification for 16 years, and worked with DC and the military industrial complex for most of that time. At the SEC NAV level.

As a rule, IMO and experience, the vast majority of gov docs are way over-classified, for reasons having nothing to do with reality, but much to do with CYA and political agendas.

While you most likely never had this to happen let me ask you a question. If you wanted to see a piece of paper someone had to OK? If you took that piece of paper out of the room you were breaking the law? Or if you held it up in front of a TV camera without it being approved you would go to prison? I'm going to guess the question I'm asking is 99.99999% sure you never experienced. So just answer off what you know....

If the President wanted to view those papers he could without asking permission?
If the President took the papers out of the room no matter how high of classification they were he could?
If the President read them then decided to go in front of a TV and tell the world what was on that paper he could without going to prison or breaking any law?

From what I've read I believe the President could do any or all of those legally have the power to do so. Might not be the best thing to do but he has that power?

That right there is why there is a difference between you, me or MIB getting charged and any President of this country not.

As you pointed out there are millions of papers a President might see that are "top secret" but not hurt this country at all if they were shown. Just a guess on my part but I bet every President and VP or politician that deals with these meaningless "top secret" crap every day and 100s of pages. At one time or another spoke of something on them in a public setting......

"The federal government classifies more than 50 million documents a year"

People have gone to jail by mishandling classified data if that is what you are asking TripleA. I'm not sure why you think they don't. I also had officers go through my folders as I left to make sure I wasn't taking anything that wasn't allowed outside of the SCIF.

I understand your point about Trump being President and being able to remove the classification on the information, but he has a process that has to be followed when he does that. There is nothing that backs up his assertion that he declassified the documents he took with him. However, if he can prove he did, then someone else in his administration should come forward and say that they accidentally didn't submit the declassification to the agency that owned the data. Nobody has done that either. Ultimately, he should have just given the paperwork back instead of holding out.

Will he go to jail? No. Just like the other politicians never do. They all have different rules than the average guy out there. They take the same oath, are told of the same penalties, and then never follow any of it. It is a load of crap and shouldn't happen. The penalties, btw, are typically up to a year in prison and up to a $100,000 fine. Petraes got the fine, but got zero prison time (2 years probation).

Hence, yes, I think he should be charged and found guilty. I think Biden should be charged and found guilty. I think Hillary should be charged for the email server and found guilty.

Wow. You completely misread my entire comment.

Nothing in my post was a reference to Trump. You just assumed that. And your entire diatribe was about Trump, whom I wasn't even talking about.

All I said was there are lots of members of Congress who should be arrested for mishandling classified docs, but OTOH, millions of docs are misclassified, mostly over-classified.

To be clear:

* I said nothing about Trump or his ability to remove classifications, or whether he should be arrested or not, or found guilty, or any of the other stuff about Trump you went on about.

* I never said people didn't go to jail for mishandling classified docs. I said members of Congress need to be arrested, if they are doing it, and I have strong reason to believe it is not uncommon.

(02-10-2024 05:38 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Wow. You completely misread my entire comment.

Nothing in my post was a reference to Trump. You just assumed that. And your entire diatribe was about Trump, whom I wasn't even talking about.

All I said was there are lots of members of Congress who should be arrested for mishandling classified docs, but OTOH, millions of docs are misclassified, mostly over-classified.

To be clear:

* I said nothing about Trump or his ability to remove classifications, or whether he should be arrested or not, or found guilty, or any of the other stuff about Trump you went on about.

* I never said people didn't go to jail for mishandling classified docs. I said members of Congress need to be arrested, if they are doing it, and I have strong reason to believe it is not uncommon.

My response wasn't to you, it was to WKUYG. I mentioned you, but didn't respond to you. He seemed to be asking you if you knew of people being thrown in jail for mishandling classified information. Trump came up because of other posts made by WKUYG in this thread.

Its amazing how many people have not looked into this issue, and who still believe Trump illegally removed classified materials.

1. The president CREATES the classifications and procedures. He is not subject to it. He can declassify anything. He is not subject to any rules, or has to adhere to any process. He IS the process. EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING JOE BIDEN THE SENATOR OR VP IS SUBJECT TO THE RULES. Former presidents are as well.

2. All former presidents have classified materials in their possession. They all retain security clearances, and can claim items for the personal record. If there is any disagreement with NARA, they have to sort it out. However, if the former president claims any item as personal, that can not be questioned by anyone. That is settled case law. What Nara would have to do is to retrieve a copy of the material they need to retain as presidential records from the former president, but they cant take HIS copy. They sometimes have to simply agree to allow the former president to keep it, like they did with Obama. It took years for the Obama records to get sorted out, and Obama pretty much told Nara to pound sand.

With that being said, Obama and Bush both took classified documents with them. They both stored classified documents in an unsecure warehouse area. It took many years for the Obama records to get resolved, with NARA having to admit they lied about where Obama's presidential records were stored. (They had to backtrack their statement that all Obama records were at NARA in DC, and admit there were records in Chicago.)

Trump stored his records at Maralargo, which had been used to house classified records when he was president. So the one former president who wasnt careless with classified records was Trump. Obama was careless. Bush was careless.

SO what the white house and DOJ did was to collude in revoking Trumps security clearance. It was so hastily done in order to perform a raid that Biden* failed to do it correctly, and the DOJ indicted Trump on having classified materials without security clearance for DOE records when he still had the clearance, something JackBois is having to tap dance around right now with Judge Cannon.

So some of yall can quit whining about wanting EVERYONE to go to jail. Because not everyone above did anything wrong. Pretty much everyone NOT NAMED TRUMP did things incorrectly.

And keep in mind, the ONLY REASON Trump has been indicted is because Biden* revoked his security clearance. Which also means when Trump becomes president again, he can revoke everyone else's and start raiding and indicting.

(02-12-2024 09:57 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Its amazing how many people have not looked into this issue, and who still believe Trump illegally removed classified materials.

1. The president CREATES the classifications and procedures. He is not subject to it. He can declassify anything. He is not subject to any rules, or has to adhere to any process. He IS the process. EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING JOE BIDEN THE SENATOR OR VP IS SUBJECT TO THE RULES. Former presidents are as well.

You say that as fact. Lots of people disagree. That is going to be settled in this trial (and subsequent appeals).

Edit: Specifically, the procedures around it, and how you alert the government entity that owns the data so they can make it available to non-clearance personel.

(02-12-2024 10:02 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 09:57 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Its amazing how many people have not looked into this issue, and who still believe Trump illegally removed classified materials.

1. The president CREATES the classifications and procedures. He is not subject to it. He can declassify anything. He is not subject to any rules, or has to adhere to any process. He IS the process. EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING JOE BIDEN THE SENATOR OR VP IS SUBJECT TO THE RULES. Former presidents are as well.

You say that as fact. Lots of people disagree. That is going to be settled in this trial (and subsequent appeals).

Edit: Specifically, the procedures around it, and how you alert the government entity that owns the data so they can make it available to non-clearance personel.

What, by a jury? A jury of people not clever enough to get out of Jury duty are going to decide if a President has the authority to declassify whatever he wants? We're doomed.

(02-12-2024 10:07 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 10:02 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 09:57 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Its amazing how many people have not looked into this issue, and who still believe Trump illegally removed classified materials.

1. The president CREATES the classifications and procedures. He is not subject to it. He can declassify anything. He is not subject to any rules, or has to adhere to any process. He IS the process. EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING JOE BIDEN THE SENATOR OR VP IS SUBJECT TO THE RULES. Former presidents are as well.

You say that as fact. Lots of people disagree. That is going to be settled in this trial (and subsequent appeals).

Edit: Specifically, the procedures around it, and how you alert the government entity that owns the data so they can make it available to non-clearance personel.

What, by a jury? A jury of people not clever enough to get out of Jury duty are going to decide if a President has the authority to declassify whatever he wants? We're doomed.

It's never been a debate on whether he has the authority to do it. It is a debate on the process in which he has to do in order for it to be fully declassified.

(02-12-2024 10:10 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 10:07 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 10:02 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 09:57 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Its amazing how many people have not looked into this issue, and who still believe Trump illegally removed classified materials.

1. The president CREATES the classifications and procedures. He is not subject to it. He can declassify anything. He is not subject to any rules, or has to adhere to any process. He IS the process. EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING JOE BIDEN THE SENATOR OR VP IS SUBJECT TO THE RULES. Former presidents are as well.

You say that as fact. Lots of people disagree. That is going to be settled in this trial (and subsequent appeals).

Edit: Specifically, the procedures around it, and how you alert the government entity that owns the data so they can make it available to non-clearance personel.

What, by a jury? A jury of people not clever enough to get out of Jury duty are going to decide if a President has the authority to declassify whatever he wants? We're doomed.

It's never been a debate on whether he has the authority to do it. It is a debate on the process in which he has to do in order for it to be fully declassified.

I think we're going to see a precedence set with Biden's issue.. If Biden knowingly took documents he wasn't supposed to and showed it to a ghostwriter, how is that any different than Trump? If Biden won't be prosecuted, how can Jack Smith prosecute Trump?

(02-12-2024 10:51 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I think we're going to see a precedence set with Biden's issue.. If Biden knowingly took documents he wasn't supposed to and showed it to a ghostwriter, how is that any different than Trump? If Biden won't be prosecuted, how can Jack Smith prosecute Trump?

Hard to disagree with that either.

(02-12-2024 09:57 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Its amazing how many people have not looked into this issue, and who still believe Trump illegally removed classified materials.

1. The president CREATES the classifications and procedures. He is not subject to it. He can declassify anything. He is not subject to any rules, or has to adhere to any process. He IS the process. EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING JOE BIDEN THE SENATOR OR VP IS SUBJECT TO THE RULES. Former presidents are as well.

2. All former presidents have classified materials in their possession. They all retain security clearances, and can claim items for the personal record. If there is any disagreement with NARA, they have to sort it out. However, if the former president claims any item as personal, that can not be questioned by anyone. That is settled case law. What Nara would have to do is to retrieve a copy of the material they need to retain as presidential records from the former president, but they cant take HIS copy. They sometimes have to simply agree to allow the former president to keep it, like they did with Obama. It took years for the Obama records to get sorted out, and Obama pretty much told Nara to pound sand.

With that being said, Obama and Bush both took classified documents with them. They both stored classified documents in an unsecure warehouse area. It took many years for the Obama records to get resolved, with NARA having to admit they lied about where Obama's presidential records were stored. (They had to backtrack their statement that all Obama records were at NARA in DC, and admit there were records in Chicago.)

Trump stored his records at Maralargo, which had been used to house classified records when he was president. So the one former president who wasnt careless with classified records was Trump. Obama was careless. Bush was careless.

SO what the white house and DOJ did was to collude in revoking Trumps security clearance. It was so hastily done in order to perform a raid that Biden* failed to do it correctly, and the DOJ indicted Trump on having classified materials without security clearance for DOE records when he still had the clearance, something JackBois is having to tap dance around right now with Judge Cannon.

So some of yall can quit whining about wanting EVERYONE to go to jail. Because not everyone above did anything wrong. Pretty much everyone NOT NAMED TRUMP did things incorrectly.

And keep in mind, the ONLY REASON Trump has been indicted is because Biden* revoked his security clearance. Which also means when Trump becomes president again, he can revoke everyone else's and start raiding and indicting.

I have searched high and low, but have never been able to find anything that suggests any President has a "security clearance" As President the are above the classification process and former Presidents can be given access to classified materials on a need to know basis. How can someone revoke something they never had in the first place?

I think the left have shown a flashlight on how all Presidents have mishandled classified documents after their terms in an effort to get Trump. I hope at the end of all this Congress/USSC put some hard rules in place regarding how these documents are to be handled and punishments in place for those that break them.

(02-10-2024 11:34 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 12:35 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-09-2024 10:34 PM)TripleA Wrote:  News flash. Many in Congress would also go to jail.

And this is coming from someone (me) who held a Top Secret classification for 16 years, and worked with DC and the military industrial complex for most of that time. At the SEC NAV level.

As a rule, IMO and experience, the vast majority of gov docs are way over-classified, for reasons having nothing to do with reality, but much to do with CYA and political agendas.

While you most likely never had this to happen let me ask you a question. If you wanted to see a piece of paper someone had to OK? If you took that piece of paper out of the room you were breaking the law? Or if you held it up in front of a TV camera without it being approved you would go to prison? I'm going to guess the question I'm asking is 99.99999% sure you never experienced. So just answer off what you know....

If the President wanted to view those papers he could without asking permission?
If the President took the papers out of the room no matter how high of classification they were he could?
If the President read them then decided to go in front of a TV and tell the world what was on that paper he could without going to prison or breaking any law?

From what I've read I believe the President could do any or all of those legally have the power to do so. Might not be the best thing to do but he has that power?

That right there is why there is a difference between you, me or MIB getting charged and any President of this country not.

As you pointed out there are millions of papers a President might see that are "top secret" but not hurt this country at all if they were shown. Just a guess on my part but I bet every President and VP or politician that deals with these meaningless "top secret" crap every day and 100s of pages. At one time or another spoke of something on them in a public setting......

"The federal government classifies more than 50 million documents a year"

People have gone to jail by mishandling classified data if that is what you are asking TripleA. I'm not sure why you think they don't. I also had officers go through my folders as I left to make sure I wasn't taking anything that wasn't allowed outside of the SCIF.

I understand your point about Trump being President and being able to remove the classification on the information, but he has a process that has to be followed when he does that. There is nothing that backs up his assertion that he declassified the documents he took with him. However, if he can prove he did, then someone else in his administration should come forward and say that they accidentally didn't submit the declassification to the agency that owned the data. Nobody has done that either. Ultimately, he should have just given the paperwork back instead of holding out.

Will he go to jail? No. Just like the other politicians never do. They all have different rules than the average guy out there. They take the same oath, are told of the same penalties, and then never follow any of it. It is a load of crap and shouldn't happen. The penalties, btw, are typically up to a year in prison and up to a $100,000 fine. Petraes got the fine, but got zero prison time (2 years probation).

Hence, yes, I think he should be charged and found guilty. I think Biden should be charged and found guilty. I think Hillary should be charged for the email server and found guilty.

A process? Okay, answer this:

The President is in the situation room and is briefed that there is credible info that a dirty bomb has been smuggled into NYC. That info is stamped TOP SECRET when handed to him. After receiving this info he immediately leaves, talks to no one, walks straight into a press briefing being held by his press Secretary and proceeds to tell the world the info.

Is he guilty of sharing classified info with people without proper clearance?

The answer is 100% no. He made the decision in his head to declassify that info and share it with the American people. The President, and the President alone, can make these determinations without consultation.

(02-12-2024 11:34 AM)banker Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 11:34 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 12:35 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-09-2024 10:34 PM)TripleA Wrote:  News flash. Many in Congress would also go to jail.

And this is coming from someone (me) who held a Top Secret classification for 16 years, and worked with DC and the military industrial complex for most of that time. At the SEC NAV level.

As a rule, IMO and experience, the vast majority of gov docs are way over-classified, for reasons having nothing to do with reality, but much to do with CYA and political agendas.

While you most likely never had this to happen let me ask you a question. If you wanted to see a piece of paper someone had to OK? If you took that piece of paper out of the room you were breaking the law? Or if you held it up in front of a TV camera without it being approved you would go to prison? I'm going to guess the question I'm asking is 99.99999% sure you never experienced. So just answer off what you know....

If the President wanted to view those papers he could without asking permission?
If the President took the papers out of the room no matter how high of classification they were he could?
If the President read them then decided to go in front of a TV and tell the world what was on that paper he could without going to prison or breaking any law?

From what I've read I believe the President could do any or all of those legally have the power to do so. Might not be the best thing to do but he has that power?

That right there is why there is a difference between you, me or MIB getting charged and any President of this country not.

As you pointed out there are millions of papers a President might see that are "top secret" but not hurt this country at all if they were shown. Just a guess on my part but I bet every President and VP or politician that deals with these meaningless "top secret" crap every day and 100s of pages. At one time or another spoke of something on them in a public setting......

"The federal government classifies more than 50 million documents a year"

People have gone to jail by mishandling classified data if that is what you are asking TripleA. I'm not sure why you think they don't. I also had officers go through my folders as I left to make sure I wasn't taking anything that wasn't allowed outside of the SCIF.

I understand your point about Trump being President and being able to remove the classification on the information, but he has a process that has to be followed when he does that. There is nothing that backs up his assertion that he declassified the documents he took with him. However, if he can prove he did, then someone else in his administration should come forward and say that they accidentally didn't submit the declassification to the agency that owned the data. Nobody has done that either. Ultimately, he should have just given the paperwork back instead of holding out.

Will he go to jail? No. Just like the other politicians never do. They all have different rules than the average guy out there. They take the same oath, are told of the same penalties, and then never follow any of it. It is a load of crap and shouldn't happen. The penalties, btw, are typically up to a year in prison and up to a $100,000 fine. Petraes got the fine, but got zero prison time (2 years probation).

Hence, yes, I think he should be charged and found guilty. I think Biden should be charged and found guilty. I think Hillary should be charged for the email server and found guilty.

A process? Okay, answer this:

The President is in the situation room and is briefed that there is credible info that a dirty bomb has been smuggled into NYC. That info is stamped TOP SECRET when handed to him. After receiving this info he immediately leaves, talks to no one, walks straight into a press briefing being held by his press Secretary and proceeds to tell the world the info.

Is he guilty of sharing classified info with people without proper clearance?

The answer is 100% no. He made the decision in his head to declassify that info and share it with the American people. The President, and the President alone, can make these determinations without consultation.

Absolutely correct. The entire classification process is owned by the executive branch. The president is the head of that branch. He is not subjected to classification rules and procedures. The president makes the rules and procedures that all others must follow.

This is also why the president does not need security clearance when he becomes president. Because he is not subject to the rules everyone else must follow.

(02-12-2024 10:51 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 10:10 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 10:07 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 10:02 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 09:57 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Its amazing how many people have not looked into this issue, and who still believe Trump illegally removed classified materials.

1. The president CREATES the classifications and procedures. He is not subject to it. He can declassify anything. He is not subject to any rules, or has to adhere to any process. He IS the process. EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING JOE BIDEN THE SENATOR OR VP IS SUBJECT TO THE RULES. Former presidents are as well.

You say that as fact. Lots of people disagree. That is going to be settled in this trial (and subsequent appeals).


Edit: Specifically, the procedures around it, and how you alert the government entity that owns the data so they can make it available to non-clearance personel.

What, by a jury? A jury of people not clever enough to get out of Jury duty are going to decide if a President has the authority to declassify whatever he wants? We're doomed.

It's never been a debate on whether he has the authority to do it. It is a debate on the process in which he has to do in order for it to be fully declassified.

I think we're going to see a precedence set with Biden's issue.. If Biden knowingly took documents he wasn't supposed to and showed it to a ghostwriter, how is that any different than Trump? If Biden won't be prosecuted, how can Jack Smith prosecute Trump?

Patraeus did the exact same thing. Disclosed info to his co-author. Got two years probation.

If Trump wins in November, the two people I would not want to be are Jack Smith and Garland.

It doesn't even a thimble full of intellectual honesty to admit these charges are more for who they are filed against than for the alleged conduct.

That's the biggest problem.

(02-12-2024 11:53 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 11:34 AM)banker Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 11:34 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 12:35 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-09-2024 10:34 PM)TripleA Wrote:  News flash. Many in Congress would also go to jail.

And this is coming from someone (me) who held a Top Secret classification for 16 years, and worked with DC and the military industrial complex for most of that time. At the SEC NAV level.

As a rule, IMO and experience, the vast majority of gov docs are way over-classified, for reasons having nothing to do with reality, but much to do with CYA and political agendas.

While you most likely never had this to happen let me ask you a question. If you wanted to see a piece of paper someone had to OK? If you took that piece of paper out of the room you were breaking the law? Or if you held it up in front of a TV camera without it being approved you would go to prison? I'm going to guess the question I'm asking is 99.99999% sure you never experienced. So just answer off what you know....

If the President wanted to view those papers he could without asking permission?
If the President took the papers out of the room no matter how high of classification they were he could?
If the President read them then decided to go in front of a TV and tell the world what was on that paper he could without going to prison or breaking any law?

From what I've read I believe the President could do any or all of those legally have the power to do so. Might not be the best thing to do but he has that power?

That right there is why there is a difference between you, me or MIB getting charged and any President of this country not.

As you pointed out there are millions of papers a President might see that are "top secret" but not hurt this country at all if they were shown. Just a guess on my part but I bet every President and VP or politician that deals with these meaningless "top secret" crap every day and 100s of pages. At one time or another spoke of something on them in a public setting......

"The federal government classifies more than 50 million documents a year"

People have gone to jail by mishandling classified data if that is what you are asking TripleA. I'm not sure why you think they don't. I also had officers go through my folders as I left to make sure I wasn't taking anything that wasn't allowed outside of the SCIF.

I understand your point about Trump being President and being able to remove the classification on the information, but he has a process that has to be followed when he does that. There is nothing that backs up his assertion that he declassified the documents he took with him. However, if he can prove he did, then someone else in his administration should come forward and say that they accidentally didn't submit the declassification to the agency that owned the data. Nobody has done that either. Ultimately, he should have just given the paperwork back instead of holding out.

Will he go to jail? No. Just like the other politicians never do. They all have different rules than the average guy out there. They take the same oath, are told of the same penalties, and then never follow any of it. It is a load of crap and shouldn't happen. The penalties, btw, are typically up to a year in prison and up to a $100,000 fine. Petraes got the fine, but got zero prison time (2 years probation).

Hence, yes, I think he should be charged and found guilty. I think Biden should be charged and found guilty. I think Hillary should be charged for the email server and found guilty.

A process? Okay, answer this:

The President is in the situation room and is briefed that there is credible info that a dirty bomb has been smuggled into NYC. That info is stamped TOP SECRET when handed to him. After receiving this info he immediately leaves, talks to no one, walks straight into a press briefing being held by his press Secretary and proceeds to tell the world the info.

Is he guilty of sharing classified info with people without proper clearance?

The answer is 100% no. He made the decision in his head to declassify that info and share it with the American people. The President, and the President alone, can make these determinations without consultation.

Absolutely correct. The entire classification process is owned by the executive branch. The president is the head of that branch. He is not subjected to classification rules and procedures. The president makes the rules and procedures that all others must follow.

This is also why the president does not need security clearance when he becomes president. Because he is not subject to the rules everyone else must follow.

Yeah. Its like these nuts who think the executive branch doesn't have to do what the president says. There seems to be a generational thing where younger people think they get as much say as the top executive.

The control over the president are 1) the courts; 2) Congress; and 3) elections.

(02-12-2024 11:10 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 09:57 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Its amazing how many people have not looked into this issue, and who still believe Trump illegally removed classified materials.

1. The president CREATES the classifications and procedures. He is not subject to it. He can declassify anything. He is not subject to any rules, or has to adhere to any process. He IS the process. EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING JOE BIDEN THE SENATOR OR VP IS SUBJECT TO THE RULES. Former presidents are as well.

2. All former presidents have classified materials in their possession. They all retain security clearances, and can claim items for the personal record. If there is any disagreement with NARA, they have to sort it out. However, if the former president claims any item as personal, that can not be questioned by anyone. That is settled case law. What Nara would have to do is to retrieve a copy of the material they need to retain as presidential records from the former president, but they cant take HIS copy. They sometimes have to simply agree to allow the former president to keep it, like they did with Obama. It took years for the Obama records to get sorted out, and Obama pretty much told Nara to pound sand.

With that being said, Obama and Bush both took classified documents with them. They both stored classified documents in an unsecure warehouse area. It took many years for the Obama records to get resolved, with NARA having to admit they lied about where Obama's presidential records were stored. (They had to backtrack their statement that all Obama records were at NARA in DC, and admit there were records in Chicago.)

Trump stored his records at Maralargo, which had been used to house classified records when he was president. So the one former president who wasnt careless with classified records was Trump. Obama was careless. Bush was careless.

SO what the white house and DOJ did was to collude in revoking Trumps security clearance. It was so hastily done in order to perform a raid that Biden* failed to do it correctly, and the DOJ indicted Trump on having classified materials without security clearance for DOE records when he still had the clearance, something JackBois is having to tap dance around right now with Judge Cannon.

So some of yall can quit whining about wanting EVERYONE to go to jail. Because not everyone above did anything wrong. Pretty much everyone NOT NAMED TRUMP did things incorrectly.

And keep in mind, the ONLY REASON Trump has been indicted is because Biden* revoked his security clearance. Which also means when Trump becomes president again, he can revoke everyone else's and start raiding and indicting.

I have searched high and low, but have never been able to find anything that suggests any President has a "security clearance" As President the are above the classification process and former Presidents can be given access to classified materials on a need to know basis. How can someone revoke something they never had in the first place?

I think the left have shown a flashlight on how all Presidents have mishandled classified documents after their terms in an effort to get Trump. I hope at the end of all this Congress/USSC put some hard rules in place regarding how these documents are to be handled and punishments in place for those that break them.

As president, he doesnt need one. Once he is a former president, he retains it until it is revoked. It just never gets revoked, except when Biden* did it to Trump.

(02-12-2024 12:03 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  If Trump wins in November, the two people I would not want to be are Jack Smith and Garland.

Given some of the rulings of the communist judges on the appellate courts, who think presidential immunity is something they can ignore, I wouldnt want to be Barack Hussein Obama either.

(02-12-2024 11:34 AM)banker Wrote:  A process? Okay, answer this:

The President is in the situation room and is briefed that there is credible info that a dirty bomb has been smuggled into NYC. That info is stamped TOP SECRET when handed to him. After receiving this info he immediately leaves, talks to no one, walks straight into a press briefing being held by his press Secretary and proceeds to tell the world the info.

Is he guilty of sharing classified info with people without proper clearance?

The answer is 100% no. He made the decision in his head to declassify that info and share it with the American people. The President, and the President alone, can make these determinations without consultation.

Yep, and he can tell the people. In the background the FBI, CIA, NSA, or whomever captured the data and made it top secret needs to be made aware that it has been declassified, thus future FOIA requests will return that information. There has always been a process for that scenario. Or any declassification scenario. It also is usually reviewed by multiple agencies to make sure that the means of obtaining that information isn't revealed when given out. Otherwise you end up with spies being paraded through the streets somewhere after being killed.

(02-12-2024 12:22 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 11:34 AM)banker Wrote:  A process? Okay, answer this:

The President is in the situation room and is briefed that there is credible info that a dirty bomb has been smuggled into NYC. That info is stamped TOP SECRET when handed to him. After receiving this info he immediately leaves, talks to no one, walks straight into a press briefing being held by his press Secretary and proceeds to tell the world the info.

Is he guilty of sharing classified info with people without proper clearance?

The answer is 100% no. He made the decision in his head to declassify that info and share it with the American people. The President, and the President alone, can make these determinations without consultation.

Yep, and he can tell the people. In the background the FBI, CIA, NSA, or whomever captured the data and made it top secret needs to be made aware that it has been declassified, thus future FOIA requests will return that information. There has always been a process for that scenario. Or any declassification scenario. It also is usually reviewed by multiple agencies to make sure that the means of obtaining that information isn't revealed when given out. Otherwise you end up with spies being paraded through the streets somewhere after being killed.

The President telling someone, even the public, the contents of a classified document does not declassify the document. Yes, he can do whatever he wants, but the document is still classified until it is declassified by the process.

(02-12-2024 12:22 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 11:34 AM)banker Wrote:  A process? Okay, answer this:

The President is in the situation room and is briefed that there is credible info that a dirty bomb has been smuggled into NYC. That info is stamped TOP SECRET when handed to him. After receiving this info he immediately leaves, talks to no one, walks straight into a press briefing being held by his press Secretary and proceeds to tell the world the info.

Is he guilty of sharing classified info with people without proper clearance?

The answer is 100% no. He made the decision in his head to declassify that info and share it with the American people. The President, and the President alone, can make these determinations without consultation.

Yep, and he can tell the people. In the background the FBI, CIA, NSA, or whomever captured the data and made it top secret needs to be made aware that it has been declassified, thus future FOIA requests will return that information. There has always been a process for that scenario. Or any declassification scenario. It also is usually reviewed by multiple agencies to make sure that the means of obtaining that information isn't revealed when given out. Otherwise you end up with spies being paraded through the streets somewhere after being killed.

.


From day one on this you repeat that same stupid, yes, its very damn stupid comment that if you did this you would be in jail. Yes you would and you are not the damn president that has the right to hold, see, talk about anything he is told, or reads, or sees, if he wanted to.

someone that cant understand they, or any other Joe, Tom, or Harry, are not playing by the same rules as the president when it comes to classified information ...

after probably being told the difference 50 times by now and you still repeat that same stupid quote. Maybe you should have at least researched it a tiny little bit because honestly someone that can't figure out that when it comes to classified information the person who has clearance because he is assigned to shake his commander's dick when he pisses. Is not the same clearance or playing under the same rules as the President of this country.

It's just ******* stupid to believe that. Yes you believe it because you repeat it over and over and over

LOCK HIM UP....I would be. Yes you would be. Anyone that doesn't understand that might just be a....