(01-10-2024 01:59 PM)penguino Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 01:15 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 01:08 PM)goofus Wrote:  US News rankings

18. Vandy (AAU)
28. Florida (AAU)
32. Texas (AAU)
47. Georgia---ahem!!
47. Tex A&M (AAU)
93. Aub----ahem!!!
105. Tenn---ahem!!
124. S. Car---ahem!!!
124. Mizzou (AAU)
124. Oklahoma---ahem!!
159. Kentucky
163. Ole Miss
170. Bama--really USNR??,
178. Ark
185. LSU
216. Miss St

The "ahems" were directed at the AAU. The USNR comment speaks for itself. Tell me again why the UCal system deserves 8 or 9 nine branches in the AAU. Cal- Berk is understandable, as is UCLA. Arguments could be made for UCSD. But if you don't want ag schools in the AAU, then why is UC-Davis in there, whose specialty is ag??!!! The other campuses have benefited from corruption within the AAU, IMO!!

This is a joke, right? Not even close:

9- Northwestern
15- UCLA
21- Michigan
28 - USC
35- Illinois
36- Wisconsin
40- Rutgers
40- Washington
43- Ohio St
44 - Purdue
46 - Maryland
53- Minnesota
60 - Michigan
60- Penn St
73- Indiana
93- Iowa
98- Oregon
159 - Nebraska

it's not even close......

I don't think this was meant to be a comparison to other conferences, just a comparison to universities as a whole.

Yes, the SEC lags behind the B1G and ACC, but that doesn't mean they don't care about academics at all. Most of them are actually good schools as well, and certainly not worthy of "you don't care about academics" as a statement. A few even care enough that they're among the elites.

(01-10-2024 01:15 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  ...
The other campuses have benefited from corruption within the AAU, IMO!!

I need to adjust my tinfoil hat. I had not heard that one before.

(01-10-2024 01:59 PM)penguino Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 01:15 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 01:08 PM)goofus Wrote:  US News rankings

18. Vandy (AAU)
28. Florida (AAU)
32. Texas (AAU)
47. Georgia---ahem!!
47. Tex A&M (AAU)
93. Aub----ahem!!!
105. Tenn---ahem!!
124. S. Car---ahem!!!
124. Mizzou (AAU)
124. Oklahoma---ahem!!
159. Kentucky
163. Ole Miss
170. Bama--really USNR??,
178. Ark
185. LSU
216. Miss St

The "ahems" were directed at the AAU. The USNR comment speaks for itself. Tell me again why the UCal system deserves 8 or 9 nine branches in the AAU. Cal- Berk is understandable, as is UCLA. Arguments could be made for UCSD. But if you don't want ag schools in the AAU, then why is UC-Davis in there, whose specialty is ag??!!! The other campuses have benefited from corruption within the AAU, IMO!!

This is a joke, right? Not even close:

9- Northwestern
15- UCLA
21- Michigan----#18 Vandy*
28 - USC--------#28 Florida*
35- Illinois-----#32 Texas*
36- Wisconsin
40- Rutgers
40- Washington
43- Ohio St
44 - Purdue
46 - Maryland
53- Minnesota-----#47 UGA!!!, #47 TAMU*
60 - Michigan
60- Penn St
73- Indiana
93- Iowa-----#93 Auburn
98- Oregon----#105 Tennessee, #124 tUSC, #124 OU, #124 Mizzou*
---‐-----‐---------------------Below AAU line------------------------
159 - Nebraska----#159 UK & every SEC sxhool that I didn't mention

it's not even close......----well, when you're cheatin', whaddya expect???

*= indicate AAU status in SEC

Here's what primarily matters in the US when institutions compare themselves, and to the AAU (as long as the research is conducted on the undergrad campus), and pretty much anyone that is actually concerned about research university comparisons:

Federally awarded research funding, particularly of the peer reviewed, competitively awarded variety (i.e., not USDA earmarks):

FY2022; from NSF HERD
1 Johns Hopkins U. & Applied Physics Lab 2,971,816
2 U. Washington, Seattle 1,083,090
3 U. California, San Diego 970,696
4 U. Michigan, Ann Arbor 970,636
5 Georgia Institute of Technology 940,488
6 Columbia U. in the City of New York 904,346
7 Duke U. 901,807
8 U. Pennsylvania 873,318
9 Stanford U. 860,125
10 U. California, Los Angeles 848,138
11 U. North Carolina, Chapel Hill 827,158
12 U. Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh 814,647
13 U. California, San Francisco 780,318
14 U. Maryland & UM Baltimore 750,447
15 U. Wisconsin-Madison 740,854
16 Yale U. 689,270
17 Washington U., Saint Louis 681,353
18 Pennsylvania State U., University Park and Hershey Medical Center 681,159
19 New York U. 668,381
20 Vanderbilt U. and Vanderbilt U. Medical Center 666,282
...
...
29 U. Texas, Austin 536,296
32 Texas A&M U., College Station and Health Science Center 505,355
35 U. Florida 467,739
63 U. Kentucky 253,852
72 U. Georgia 220,343
77 U. Oklahoma, Norman and Health Science Center 210,994
88 U. Missouri, Columbia 182,432
102 U. Tennessee, Knoxville 149,260
104 Mississippi State U. 138,207
123 Louisiana State U., Baton Rouge 111,886
126 U. South Carolina, Columbia 106,752
128 Auburn U., Auburn 104,883
137 U. Mississippi 84,270
149 U. Alabama, Tuscaloosa 67,986
153 U. Arkansas, Fayetteville 64,252

Johns Hopkins has always been the elite research institution in the US.

(01-10-2024 04:39 PM)unalions Wrote:  Johns Hopkins has always been the elite research institution in the US.

Research and Lacrosse, that's what Maryland does!

(01-10-2024 02:55 AM)TexasCat Wrote:  What’s funny about this premise is that by any metric, the SEC schools (and the states they’re located in) do care less about academics. States in the south spend a fraction of the money on higher ed than do states in the Midwest, west coast, and northeast. The acceptance rates are higher, funding is lower, graduation rates are lower, research output is lower (even after adding UT Austin). This is true generally but also specifically, if you compare Big Ten schools to SEC ones.

Additionally, southern states are consistently the least educated in the country. U of Alabama just eliminated liberal arts requirements for their entire university, making it effectively a trade school rather than a university. While not in the SEC, West Virginia no longer offers grad programs in math or any foreign language courses. You simply don’t hear speaking about the academics of their universities with the same pride as their athletics, which you hear not infrequently from Big Ten alumni.

There is just no world where claiming the SEC or the south generally (UNC & UVa not withstanding) care about academics like Big Ten schools (and several ACC & Big 12 schools) do. SEC schools are seen by their own fans & alumni as sports programs that also offer classes sometimes. It’s fine, just own it.

With "Texas" in your name, it's surprising that you left out the huge endowments of A&M and Texas. We have a combined $60b. How does that compare to the top 14 current and future B1G publics, which are by any measure some of the finest institutions of higher learning in the entire world?

Michigan: $17b
tOSU: $7b
Washington: $4.6b
PSU: $4.6b
Mich St: $3.9b
Purdue: $3.6b
UCLA: $3.5b
Indiana: $3.5b
Wisconsin: $3.5b
Illinois: $3.1b
Iowa: $3.0b
Nebraska: $2b
Maryland: $2b
Rutgers: $1.8b

Add all those up and that's $63b, a whopping 5% more than A&M and Texas all by ourselves.

What you should have said was that Public schools in general are lagging far behind privates in spending and revenue-generation. There are 15 privates with an endowment of $9.8b or more, but only 5 publics: A&M, Texas, Michigan, Virginia, and California. The publics also fund very large systems in addition to our main campuses, though California has separate listings for both UCLA and Cal (not sure if those are part of the $15.4b or in addition to it). Of the 5 publics that are in the top 20, 3 are Southern. Of the privates that are in the top 20, most are Northern or Northeastern, not unsurprising considering that they're mostly very old institutions (Ivies and such). Vanderbilt and Duke are the only Southern Privates to make the top 20.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co..._endowment

The academic debate in regards to athletics is nothing but a justification for exclusion among old white men anyway.

No one actually cares about this topic unless it's being used in some form of prejudice. Lockheed Martin does not give a **** if a EE graduate went to Penn State or UCF. Especially in 2024 where some bored kid at home can have already finished Cal 2 before they even get to college if they truly want to.

(01-10-2024 05:47 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  The academic debate in regards to athletics is nothing but a justification for exclusion among old white men anyway.

No one actually cares about this topic unless it's being used in some form of prejudice. Lockheed Martin does not give a **** if a EE graduate went to Penn State or UCF. Especially in 2024 where some bored kid at home can have already finished Cal 2 before they even get to college if they truly want to.

If they are straight out of school, the top engineering schools matter.
Now if you are talking 20 years down the line, then its experience.

(01-10-2024 05:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 05:47 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  The academic debate in regards to athletics is nothing but a justification for exclusion among old white men anyway.

No one actually cares about this topic unless it's being used in some form of prejudice. Lockheed Martin does not give a **** if a EE graduate went to Penn State or UCF. Especially in 2024 where some bored kid at home can have already finished Cal 2 before they even get to college if they truly want to.

If they are straight out of school, the top engineering schools matter.
Now if you are talking 20 years down the line, then its experience.

If they are straight out of school, you should give them a basic engineering exam no matter what school they went to and interview them carefully to check their social skills. There are a lot of graduates from a lot of top schools that don't know diddly squat about things their degree should imply and a boat load who can't communicate face to face effectively.

(01-10-2024 05:47 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  The academic debate in regards to athletics is nothing but a justification for exclusion among old white men anyway.

No one actually cares about this topic unless it's being used in some form of prejudice. Lockheed Martin does not give a **** if a EE graduate went to Penn State or UCF. Especially in 2024 where some bored kid at home can have already finished Cal 2 before they even get to college if they truly want to.

My sister in law worked for Lockheed for 30 years, she was pretty far up the food chain when she retired. Somehow we got to talking at the family xmas this year about hypersonic missles, and that got her on a tangent about the difficulty in finding good young engineers. She told me that she had a few favored schools, and none of them were AAU.

Endowments have zero to do with funding or state support.

(01-10-2024 05:32 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 02:55 AM)TexasCat Wrote:  What’s funny about this premise is that by any metric, the SEC schools (and the states they’re located in) do care less about academics. States in the south spend a fraction of the money on higher ed than do states in the Midwest, west coast, and northeast. The acceptance rates are higher, funding is lower, graduation rates are lower, research output is lower (even after adding UT Austin). This is true generally but also specifically, if you compare Big Ten schools to SEC ones.

Additionally, southern states are consistently the least educated in the country. U of Alabama just eliminated liberal arts requirements for their entire university, making it effectively a trade school rather than a university. While not in the SEC, West Virginia no longer offers grad programs in math or any foreign language courses. You simply don’t hear speaking about the academics of their universities with the same pride as their athletics, which you hear not infrequently from Big Ten alumni.

There is just no world where claiming the SEC or the south generally (UNC & UVa not withstanding) care about academics like Big Ten schools (and several ACC & Big 12 schools) do. SEC schools are seen by their own fans & alumni as sports programs that also offer classes sometimes. It’s fine, just own it.

With "Texas" in your name, it's surprising that you left out the huge endowments of A&M and Texas. We have a combined $60b. How does that compare to the top 14 current and future B1G publics, which are by any measure some of the finest institutions of higher learning in the entire world?

Michigan: $17b
tOSU: $7b
Washington: $4.6b
PSU: $4.6b
Mich St: $3.9b
Purdue: $3.6b
UCLA: $3.5b
Indiana: $3.5b
Wisconsin: $3.5b
Illinois: $3.1b
Iowa: $3.0b
Nebraska: $2b
Maryland: $2b
Rutgers: $1.8b

Add all those up and that's $63b, a whopping 5% more than A&M and Texas all by ourselves.

What you should have said was that Public schools in general are lagging far behind privates in spending and revenue-generation. There are 15 privates with an endowment of $9.8b or more, but only 5 publics: A&M, Texas, Michigan, Virginia, and California. The publics also fund very large systems in addition to our main campuses, though California has separate listings for both UCLA and Cal (not sure if those are part of the $15.4b or in addition to it). Of the 5 publics that are in the top 20, 3 are Southern. Of the privates that are in the top 20, most are Northern or Northeastern, not unsurprising considering that they're mostly very old institutions (Ivies and such). Vanderbilt and Duke are the only Southern Privates to make the top 20.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co..._endowment

(01-09-2024 11:21 AM)e-parade Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 01:45 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 01:41 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 01:37 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 01:28 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  UAB could become AAU before Alabama and Auburn.

True. And Boise St could join the B1G before Washington, but it seems unlikely.

I haven’t heard Georgia called a public Ivy, though I do know that it’s an excellent school.

OP has them confused with Georgia Tech.

https://www.shemmassianconsulting.com/blog/public-ivy

OP does NOT have UGA confused with GT!!!!!! Click the link and read!!!!!https://online.uga.edu/news/uga-makes-list-public-ivy-schools/

So I went to the link you had there, which provided a link to another website, which has this page as their list of Public Ivy Schools:

https://educatedquest.com/public-ivy-sch...r-2022-23/

Quote:So, here’s this year’s list of Public Ivy schools:

Binghamton University
Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
Christopher Newport University (VA)
Florida State University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Miami University of Ohio
The College of New Jersey
University of Delaware
University of Massachusetts-Amherst
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill (Picture above)

Am I missing something?

Here's the previous year's list:

Quote:So, here’s this year’s list of Public Ivy schools:

Binghamton University
Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
Christopher Newport University (VA)
Georgia Institute of Technology
Miami University of Ohio
Penn State-University Park (pictured)
The College of New Jersey
University of Delaware
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
University of Maryland-College Park
University of Massachusetts-Amherst
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities

The only mention of "Georgia" is with Georgia Institute of Technology.


Is UGA confusing themselves with GT? I did find this page, which lists UGA as a "Runner Up" as opposed to actually being a "Public Ivy" (per this guy specifically): https://educatedquest.com/educated-quest...unners-up/

Not sure about your list but here is the original list of Moll's public Ivy schools.

College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)
Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)
University of California (applies to the campuses as of 1985: Berkeley, Los Angeles, San Diego, Irvine, Davis, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, and Riverside)
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Texas at Austin
University of Vermont (Burlington)
University of Virginia (Charlottesville)

I think I got cancer from reading this thread. Send help

(01-09-2024 01:21 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I have heard this lie countless times from B1G fans (aka Big Ten) and Big XII fans as well: "the SEC doesn't care about academics." Nothing could be further from the truth, IMO.
To start, there will be five SEC members in the AAU (Vandy, Missouri, Florida, Texas A&M, and Texas this year). Would the SEC like to have more AAU members?? Yes!!!
You guys keep telling me and others," the SEC doesn't care about academics; all they care about is football. The SECU is a sham." That is a bunch of hogwash!! I challenge any of you Big Ten fans or Big XII or ACC fans to check out the SECU for yourselves. See if it really is a sham. https://www.thesecu.com/ check this article on SEC faculty: https://www.thesecu.com/news/collaborati...ticipants/

Or this one: https://www.thesecu.com/news/leadership-...-workshop/

Still a sham to you??

A lot of SEC universities would love to be AAU, but the AAU won't even give them a sniff!! UGA is a public Ivy, and surprise, surprise-not in the AAU. Is this fair?? UGA's president would love to be in the AAU. But, the AAU won't invite UGA. And that's just one SEC institution. Don't think 'Bama or Auburn is interested in AAU?? Think again!!!

It hasn't been talked about on here much, IMO, but every single SEC institution is in the ORAU:

Here the proof: https://www.orau.org/partnerships/consor...mbers.html

The ORAU is an academic association trying to improve the lives of everyday Americans, IMO. It does this better than the AAU, IMO, although AAU is viewed as having more prestige.

So think about the above post when you claim that "the SEC doesn't care about academics." It isn't true!!!

First of all you mentioned 3 acquisitions in your list of 5 AAU. I don't think that's a fair point in your favor here. Those 3 came over for your football prowess not to be suddenly lumped together with Florida and Vandy.

Second, the profile of SEC is definitely improving but mostly because schools in the Northeast have improved so much that HS students in those states have to leave for the Southern schools. Alabama and Clemson (not SEC) are definitely schools that are experiencing this because of the aforementioned improvement plus these schools have started shelling out a lot of money to attract the better Northeastern student.

Third, Georgia has really improved. Living in a city that attracts people from all over the country, I have run into a number of intelligent UGA grads with high GMATs, etc. Impressive bunch honestly.

Lastly, the fact that many Southeastern states (ex:Mississippi, Louisiana) are rated so poorly in education leads to the statement you are fighting to defend. And since they are so poorly rated, it's only natural for people to say that SEC doesn't care.

(01-11-2024 05:49 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 11:21 AM)e-parade Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 01:45 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 01:41 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 01:37 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  True. And Boise St could join the B1G before Washington, but it seems unlikely.

I haven’t heard Georgia called a public Ivy, though I do know that it’s an excellent school.

OP has them confused with Georgia Tech.

https://www.shemmassianconsulting.com/blog/public-ivy

OP does NOT have UGA confused with GT!!!!!! Click the link and read!!!!!https://online.uga.edu/news/uga-makes-list-public-ivy-schools/

So I went to the link you had there, which provided a link to another website, which has this page as their list of Public Ivy Schools:

https://educatedquest.com/public-ivy-sch...r-2022-23/

Quote:So, here’s this year’s list of Public Ivy schools:

Binghamton University
Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
Christopher Newport University (VA)
Florida State University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Miami University of Ohio
The College of New Jersey
University of Delaware
University of Massachusetts-Amherst
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill (Picture above)

Am I missing something?

Here's the previous year's list:

Quote:So, here’s this year’s list of Public Ivy schools:

Binghamton University
Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
Christopher Newport University (VA)
Georgia Institute of Technology
Miami University of Ohio
Penn State-University Park (pictured)
The College of New Jersey
University of Delaware
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
University of Maryland-College Park
University of Massachusetts-Amherst
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities

The only mention of "Georgia" is with Georgia Institute of Technology.


Is UGA confusing themselves with GT? I did find this page, which lists UGA as a "Runner Up" as opposed to actually being a "Public Ivy" (per this guy specifically): https://educatedquest.com/educated-quest...unners-up/

Not sure about your list but here is the original list of Moll's public Ivy schools.

College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)
Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)
University of California (applies to the campuses as of 1985: Berkeley, Los Angeles, San Diego, Irvine, Davis, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, and Riverside)
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Texas at Austin
University of Vermont (Burlington)
University of Virginia (Charlottesville)

Yeah this is the list with GT . Delaware, etc are not public ivies, that's laughable.

(01-13-2024 06:48 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(01-11-2024 05:49 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 11:21 AM)e-parade Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 01:45 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 01:41 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  OP has them confused with Georgia Tech.

https://www.shemmassianconsulting.com/blog/public-ivy

OP does NOT have UGA confused with GT!!!!!! Click the link and read!!!!!https://online.uga.edu/news/uga-makes-list-public-ivy-schools/

So I went to the link you had there, which provided a link to another website, which has this page as their list of Public Ivy Schools:

https://educatedquest.com/public-ivy-sch...r-2022-23/

Quote:So, here’s this year’s list of Public Ivy schools:

Binghamton University
Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
Christopher Newport University (VA)
Florida State University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Miami University of Ohio
The College of New Jersey
University of Delaware
University of Massachusetts-Amherst
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill (Picture above)

Am I missing something?

Here's the previous year's list:

Quote:So, here’s this year’s list of Public Ivy schools:

Binghamton University
Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
Christopher Newport University (VA)
Georgia Institute of Technology
Miami University of Ohio
Penn State-University Park (pictured)
The College of New Jersey
University of Delaware
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
University of Maryland-College Park
University of Massachusetts-Amherst
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities

The only mention of "Georgia" is with Georgia Institute of Technology.


Is UGA confusing themselves with GT? I did find this page, which lists UGA as a "Runner Up" as opposed to actually being a "Public Ivy" (per this guy specifically): https://educatedquest.com/educated-quest...unners-up/

Not sure about your list but here is the original list of Moll's public Ivy schools.

College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)
Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)
University of California (applies to the campuses as of 1985: Berkeley, Los Angeles, San Diego, Irvine, Davis, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, and Riverside)
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Texas at Austin
University of Vermont (Burlington)
University of Virginia (Charlottesville)

Yeah this is the list with GT . Delaware, etc are not public ivies, that's laughable.

Considering that Green's Guide also had Stanford, Vandy, Boston College, Notre Dame, Duke, & Wake Forest as "Hidden Ivies," I'm more inclined to go with a combination of Green & Moll. Furthermore, I did some research as to whether or not Moll disagreed with Green's Guide. He did not. Therefore, I'm more inclined to go with this list made by Greens & Moll:
‐---‐----‐----------------------------
College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)

Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)

University of California (applies to the campuses as of 1985: Berkeley, Los Angeles, San Diego, Irvine, Davis, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, and Riverside)

University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

University of Texas at Austin

University of Vermont (Burlington)

University of Virginia (Charlottesville)

University of Colorado Boulder

Georgia Institute of Technology (Atlanta)

University of Illinois Urbana–Champaign

New College of Florida (formerly New College of the University of South Florida, it became an independent part of Florida's State University System in 2001)

Pennsylvania State University (University Park)

University of Pittsburgh

State University of New York at Binghamton (also known as Binghamton University)

University of Washington (Seattle)

University of Wisconsin–Madison

Rutgers University (New Brunswick, New Jersey)

University of Connecticut (Storrs)

University of Delaware (Newark)

University of Maryland, (College Park)

University of Arizona (Tucson)

Indiana University Bloomington

Michigan State University (East Lansing)

Ohio State University (Columbus)

University of Iowa (Iowa City)

University of Minnesota, Twin Cities

University of Florida (Gainesville)

University of Georgia (Athens)

To me, this list is more accurate.