Note: the graph puts teams like USC and Texas in the B1G and SEC respectively, which IMO is wrong, but still, fun to look at.

Those FCS attendance figures are impressive. For example, Southern U, sixth in FCS attendance, had better attendance than at least two schools in each of the G5 conferences.

NDSU's attendance is 14.1k?

The mighty have fallen.

App State having almost the same attendance as ECU would've been a crazy thought 20 years ago, but here we are.

2023:
- ECU averaged 36K in a 52K stadium.
- App averaged 35K in a 30K stadium.

2003:
- ECU averaged 33K in a 43K stadium.
- App averaged 15K in a 17K stadium.

Growing our average attendance by 20K in a 20-year span, I think conference realignment has worked perfectly for us.

7 B1G schools below 50k. Wow. Purdue is the only smaller B1G brand in the top 10, though Oregon would certainly have been ahead of them if they had a bigger stadium. PK needs to expand their capacity by a bit, I'd say at least to 70k, to accommodate more games with tOSU, Michigan, PSU, etc in the future.

FSU and Clemson stick out like a sore thumb in the ACC. VT averaging nearly 50% more than UVA? Hmmm...

Here where the best of the rest would be at.

1.Fresno State 39.9 K
2.California 38.7 K
3.Cincinnati 38.2 K
4..USF 37.5 K
5..Oregon State 37.0 K
6.Syracuse 36.9 K
7.Boston College 36.4 K
8.Georgia Tech 36.3 K
9.ECU 35.9 K
10.Houston 36.0 K
11..Boise State 35.9 K better than last year even if it is their down year.
12.App. State 34.7 K
13.Stanford 33.2 K
14.Memphis 32.5 K
15.Navy 30.8 K
16.Wake Forest 30.5 K
17.Jackson State 30.1 K
18.Army 29.0 K
19.UTSA 28.9 K
20.Duke 28.1 K
21.Washington State 28.0 K
22.Vanderbilt 25.5 K
23. Northwestern 25.3 K
24.SMU 22.6 K

SMU had that much and they were winning? UTSA is the sleeping giant here.

(01-06-2024 04:23 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  7 B1G schools below 50k. Wow. Purdue is the only smaller B1G brand in the top 10, though Oregon would certainly have been ahead of them if they had a bigger stadium. PK needs to expand their capacity by a bit, I'd say at least to 70k, to accommodate more games with tOSU, Michigan, PSU, etc in the future.

FSU and Clemson stick out like a sore thumb in the ACC. VT averaging nearly 50% more than UVA? Hmmm...

VT's been averaging 50% more than UVA since the 90's.

SMU just Duke with better BBQ?

(01-06-2024 05:27 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  SMU just another Duke?

Its tough when you have 70k alumni and 7 million people in town to get more than 22k to show up for a major college football game.

It really is..

Respect to BYU for leading the NB12. They’ve had P5 level fan support for a long time even if they didn’t have the conference affiliation to given them the moniker.

What was the point of putting the Ivy League on this graphic?

(01-06-2024 04:23 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  7 B1G schools below 50k. Wow. Purdue is the only smaller B1G brand in the top 10, though Oregon would certainly have been ahead of them if they had a bigger stadium. PK needs to expand their capacity by a bit, I'd say at least to 70k, to accommodate more games with tOSU, Michigan, PSU, etc in the future.

FSU and Clemson stick out like a sore thumb in the ACC. VT averaging nearly 50% more than UVA? Hmmm...

(01-06-2024 05:05 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Here where the best of the rest would be at.

1.Fresno State 39.9 K
2.California 38.7 K
3.Cincinnati 38.2 K
4..USF 37.5 K
5..Oregon State 37.0 K
6.Syracuse 36.9 K
7.Boston College 36.4 K
8.Georgia Tech 36.3 K
9.ECU 35.9 K
10.Houston 36.0 K
11..Boise State 35.9 K better than last year even if it is their down year.
12.App. State 34.7 K
13.Stanford 33.2 K
14.Memphis 32.5 K
15.Navy 30.8 K
16.Wake Forest 30.5 K
17.Jackson State 30.1 K
18.Army 29.0 K
19.UTSA 28.9 K
20.Duke 28.1 K
21.Washington State 28.0 K
22.Vanderbilt 25.5 K
23. Northwestern 25.3 K
24.SMU 22.6 K

SMU had that much and they were winning? UTSA is the sleeping giant here.

I copied both of these posts because it illustrates how you have to look deeper into the numbers - what is the stadium capacity relative to the attendance figures?

For example, Fresno State, Cincinnati, Oregon State, Boise State, Houston, et al., have capacities +/- 40,000. So, while on the surface the attendance numbers appear smaller the percentage of attendance based on stadium capacity is quite good. Compare that with some of the P5 programs that bryanw1995 highlighted that are less than full.

Not a surprise the SEC has the highest average attendance - especially with the additions of Texas and Oklahoma. Five programs have 100K each - Tenn, Texas, LSU, Bama, TXAM. Throw out the bottom two and every school has 60K+ - that is football hungry cult status folks.

(01-06-2024 04:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Those FCS attendance figures are impressive. For example, Southern U, sixth in FCS attendance, had better attendance than at least two schools in each of the G5 conferences.

Jackson State is very impressive indeed.

Building on this I noticed you left out Montana, the Griz would be #22 on this list if you went with the Top 25:

1.Fresno State 39.9 K
2.California 38.7 K
3.Cincinnati 38.2 K
4..USF 37.5 K
5..Oregon State 37.0 K
6.Syracuse 36.9 K
7.Boston College 36.4 K
8.Georgia Tech 36.3 K
9.ECU 35.9 K
10.Houston 36.0 K
11..Boise State 35.9 K better than last year even if it is their down year.
12.App. State 34.7 K
13.Stanford 33.2 K
14.Memphis 32.5 K
15.Navy 30.8 K
16.Wake Forest 30.5 K
17.Jackson State 30.1 K
18.Army 29.0 K
19.UTSA 28.9 K
20.Duke 28.1 K
21.Washington State 28.0 K
22. MONTANA 26,269 K (Regular Season Only Average)
23.Vanderbilt 25.5 K
24. Northwestern 25.3 K
25.SMU 22.6 K

If you count the Playoff games that would give Montana an Average of 25,069 K. Even taking into account those extra three games Montana would still be #24 on this list, in terms of fan support we definitely have what it takes to move up, need an invite though.

(01-06-2024 05:05 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  24.SMU 22.6 K

SMU had that much and they were winning? UTSA is the sleeping giant here.

SMU counts attendance as tickets sold. Many games have not approached this limit, which would be 70 percent capacity. If you've seen SMU games on TV, it's not close to 70 percent full.

"A small crowd of fans gathered in Gerald J. Ford Stadium to see SMU secure a 69-10 victory in the Mustangs’ homecoming game. Saturday morning’s showers kept many Mustangs from participating in Homecoming traditions such as the parade and the boulevard, but the rain cleared in time for the 11 a.m. football game."

Announced attendance was 20,800, though this photo from the school newspaper suggests otherwise.



https://smudailycampus.com/1062969/sport...ver-tulsa/

(01-06-2024 04:20 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  App State having almost the same attendance as ECU would've been a crazy thought 20 years ago, but here we are.

2023:
- ECU averaged 36K in a 52K stadium.
- App averaged 35K in a 30K stadium.

2003:
- ECU averaged 33K in a 43K stadium.
- App averaged 15K in a 17K stadium.

Growing our average attendance by 20K in a 20-year span, I think conference realignment has worked perfectly for us.

Wow. Cut that timeline in half, and it's even bigger.

2013
ECU (43,985)
App (24,894)

2023
ECU (36k)
App (35k)

Appalachian St closed a 19k attendance gap to 1k within 10 years.

(01-06-2024 10:04 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-06-2024 04:20 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  App State having almost the same attendance as ECU would've been a crazy thought 20 years ago, but here we are.

2023:
- ECU averaged 36K in a 52K stadium.
- App averaged 35K in a 30K stadium.

2003:
- ECU averaged 33K in a 43K stadium.
- App averaged 15K in a 17K stadium.

Growing our average attendance by 20K in a 20-year span, I think conference realignment has worked perfectly for us.

Wow. Cut that timeline in half, and it's even bigger.

2013
ECU (43,985)
App (24,894)

2023
ECU (36k)
App (35k)

Appalachian St closed a 19k attendance gap to 1k within 10 years.

East Carolina can get back to averaging 42,000 to 45,000 once it starts winning again. The program was 2-10 this past season. It has had only two eight-win seasons since the AAC began play in 2014. Winning will cure the problem.

In contrast, AppState has never had a losing season since it joined the Sun Belt in 2014. That consistency of strength helps fuel quality attendance.

The ECU fan base exists. The motivation for those fans to attend ECU home games, however, has been lacking.

(01-06-2024 10:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-06-2024 10:04 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-06-2024 04:20 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  App State having almost the same attendance as ECU would've been a crazy thought 20 years ago, but here we are.

2023:
- ECU averaged 36K in a 52K stadium.
- App averaged 35K in a 30K stadium.

2003:
- ECU averaged 33K in a 43K stadium.
- App averaged 15K in a 17K stadium.

Growing our average attendance by 20K in a 20-year span, I think conference realignment has worked perfectly for us.

Wow. Cut that timeline in half, and it's even bigger.

2013
ECU (43,985)
App (24,894)

2023
ECU (36k)
App (35k)

Appalachian St closed a 19k attendance gap to 1k within 10 years.

East Carolina can get back to averaging 42,000 to 45,000 once it starts winning again. The program was 2-10 this past season. It has had only two eight-win seasons since the AAC began play in 2014. Winning will cure the problem.

In contrast, AppState has never had a losing season since it joined the Sun Belt in 2014. That consistency of strength helps fuel quality attendance.

The ECU fan base exists. The motivation for those fans to attend ECU home games, however, has been lacking.

My opinion is that no FBS school has been harmed more by FCS move-ups than East Carolina (a topic that might deserve it's own thread sometime). Until 2013, ECU was the only G5 team between DC and Orlando. That gave them prime access to whoever the ACC and SEC didn't pick up in Atlanta, Charlotte, Norfolk, etc.

Now there's 10 G5 teams between DC and Orlando: JMU, ODU, Liberty, App, UNCC, ECU, Coastal, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, and Kennesaw State.

I feel the insane increase in competition has really hurt ECU. High school recruits and transfers in the region have more G5 choices, probably closer to home. The same might be true for college football fans: more G5 choices, closer to home.

(01-06-2024 07:04 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-06-2024 04:23 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  7 B1G schools below 50k. Wow. Purdue is the only smaller B1G brand in the top 10, though Oregon would certainly have been ahead of them if they had a bigger stadium. PK needs to expand their capacity by a bit, I'd say at least to 70k, to accommodate more games with tOSU, Michigan, PSU, etc in the future.

FSU and Clemson stick out like a sore thumb in the ACC. VT averaging nearly 50% more than UVA? Hmmm...

(01-06-2024 05:05 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Here where the best of the rest would be at.

1.Fresno State 39.9 K
2.California 38.7 K
3.Cincinnati 38.2 K
4..USF 37.5 K
5..Oregon State 37.0 K
6.Syracuse 36.9 K
7.Boston College 36.4 K
8.Georgia Tech 36.3 K
9.ECU 35.9 K
10.Houston 36.0 K
11..Boise State 35.9 K better than last year even if it is their down year.
12.App. State 34.7 K
13.Stanford 33.2 K
14.Memphis 32.5 K
15.Navy 30.8 K
16.Wake Forest 30.5 K
17.Jackson State 30.1 K
18.Army 29.0 K
19.UTSA 28.9 K
20.Duke 28.1 K
21.Washington State 28.0 K
22.Vanderbilt 25.5 K
23. Northwestern 25.3 K
24.SMU 22.6 K

SMU had that much and they were winning? UTSA is the sleeping giant here.

I copied both of these posts because it illustrates how you have to look deeper into the numbers - what is the stadium capacity relative to the attendance figures?

For example, Fresno State, Cincinnati, Oregon State, Boise State, Houston, et al., have capacities +/- 40,000. So, while on the surface the attendance numbers appear smaller the percentage of attendance based on stadium capacity is quite good. Compare that with some of the P5 programs that bryanw1995 highlighted that are less than full.

Not a surprise the SEC has the highest average attendance - especially with the additions of Texas and Oklahoma. Five programs have 100K each - Tenn, Texas, LSU, Bama, TXAM. Throw out the bottom two and every school has 60K+ - that is football hungry cult status folks.

I remember reading a while ago a post here showing attendance % of Capacity. The SEC was first and the Big 12 was 2nd (probably new Big 12 but before the 4c were added iirc).

edit: as for "football hungry cult status folks", it depends on the school. LSU, A&M and Tennessee? For sure. Alabama and Texas? Not so much. They care about the game, but if they lose then life goes on. If we lose then it feels like the end of the world. Tennessee gets 2.5% of the population of their entire state on game days, men, women, children, elderly, 2.5% of EVERYONE. LSU gets 2.2%. For 7 games every fall. A&M games are impressive, and I love our atmosphere, but Texas also has over 30m people and College Station is 90 minutes from Houston. 100k per game for us is great, but I don't think it's as impressive as 100k in Knoxville, or even 86k every game for 60 years in a small town in Nebraska in a tiny state.

(01-06-2024 11:20 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(01-06-2024 10:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-06-2024 10:04 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-06-2024 04:20 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  App State having almost the same attendance as ECU would've been a crazy thought 20 years ago, but here we are.

2023:
- ECU averaged 36K in a 52K stadium.
- App averaged 35K in a 30K stadium.

2003:
- ECU averaged 33K in a 43K stadium.
- App averaged 15K in a 17K stadium.

Growing our average attendance by 20K in a 20-year span, I think conference realignment has worked perfectly for us.

Wow. Cut that timeline in half, and it's even bigger.

2013
ECU (43,985)
App (24,894)

2023
ECU (36k)
App (35k)

Appalachian St closed a 19k attendance gap to 1k within 10 years.

East Carolina can get back to averaging 42,000 to 45,000 once it starts winning again. The program was 2-10 this past season. It has had only two eight-win seasons since the AAC began play in 2014. Winning will cure the problem.

In contrast, AppState has never had a losing season since it joined the Sun Belt in 2014. That consistency of strength helps fuel quality attendance.

The ECU fan base exists. The motivation for those fans to attend ECU home games, however, has been lacking.

My opinion is that no FBS school has been harmed more by FCS move-ups than East Carolina (a topic that might deserve it's own thread sometime). Until 2013, ECU was the only G5 team between DC and Orlando. That gave them prime access to whoever the ACC and SEC didn't pick up in Atlanta, Charlotte, Norfolk, etc.

Now there's 10 G5 teams between DC and Orlando: JMU, ODU, Liberty, App, UNCC, ECU, Coastal, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, and Kennesaw State.

I feel the insane increase in competition has really hurt ECU. High school recruits and transfers in the region have more G5 choices, probably closer to home. The same might be true for college football fans: more G5 choices, closer to home.

Some of these programs also aren't that mature yet with a full 6 years of FBS recruiting class. Really you have to give a new FBS program 20 years to give it a chance to cycle through coaching changes to see what it can do.

I do believe Liberty had its "Hawaii" year making an access bowl and probably won't do it again because of a celing as a christian school.