Why doesn’t the PAC2 want UNM? New market, good academics, solid hoops.

If this new proposed NCAA subdivision comes to fruition, it will change the math on any new rebuilt PAC. There is a very real possibility that not every program in the AAC and MWC could afford to meet the mandates for compensation or benefits that this new subdivision will require. Perhaps there will be an airport meeting where the more financially strong universities (which would certainly include Washington State & Oregon State, since they are flush with all that PAC exit fee cash) will forge the new PAC conference in this new highest level of college football. At any rate, the stated mandates will almost certainly remove the Sun Belt, C-USA, and MAC from being part of this new subdivision.

I voted for rebuilding the PAC. If available on Draftkings I would bet $5 on it.

(12-04-2023 03:44 PM)Realignment Wrote:  I still think it goes...

Pac-12 West
Boise State
Fresno State
Oregon State
San Diego State
UNLV
Washington State

Pac-12 East
Colorado State
Memphis
Rice
Tulane
Utah State
UTSA

That makes the most sense to me.

Utah State? For the major market already covered by 2 larger schools?

(12-03-2023 04:42 PM)Utgrizfan Wrote:  

(12-03-2023 03:29 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  Also wouldn't top MWC members be willing to join OSU/WSU and leave the fat from the bottom of the MWC? That seems mutually beneficial versus having a full merge or what have you.

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First and foremost, I will say that I feel that a full merger will happen more than any other scenario and expect that to be announced after the 2025 season when THE MWC/PAC renegotiates their TV deal.

However the only reason I hope this happens is because it gives Montana and MSU a chance to get invited up to FBS. If the PAC2 was going to Convince ANY teams from the MWC to move they'd have to have $$, Markets and Brands could probably accomplish that:

-Add Boise, SDSU, Fresno, CSU, UNLV, SJSU (Bay Area Market) and Hawaii (New TZ, Football only so could pay a half share or less and get Gonzaga to offset and garuntees 8 Conference games).

-Remaining 5 MWC teams backfill with NMSU, UTEP and then add best FCS options possible:

Nevada, Wyoming, Air Force, Utah State, New Mexico, NMSU, UTEP, Montana, MSU, Idaho

-At this point I'd like to go with this to get to 12 teams:

NDSU + SDSU: Gives you known FCS powerhouses/giant slayers and add some more recognition to the Conference, also adds a new TZ for game times and more exposure.

Geographically, it wouldn't be a terrible Conference, vast majority of teams are in the Mountain TZ with 2 Pacific and 2 Central teams. If needed down the road could explore adding North and South Dakota as well to get to 14.

Looks very good there.

Maybe add SHSU and Tarleton for 14 and some Texas grounds?

Sac St and UCDavis for 16 and Sacramento recruiting and TV?

All the P conferences are going to 16+, so why not this MWC?

(12-06-2023 11:10 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(12-04-2023 03:44 PM)Realignment Wrote:  I still think it goes...

Pac-12 West
Boise State
Fresno State
Oregon State
San Diego State
UNLV
Washington State

Pac-12 East
Colorado State
Memphis
Rice
Tulane
Utah State
UTSA

That makes the most sense to me.

Utah State? For the major market already covered by 2 larger schools?

True. Would be better adding USF or ECU than USU.

USU would make a great Sunbelt member…overachievers on a regular basis.

More trouble in Pac-land. The conference’s normal December payouts of 2023-24 revenue earned to date have been held up. OSU and WSU are refusing to approve any 2023-24 revenue distributions to members until they have an agreement with the 10 departing schools on how to cover any future liability or settlement costs that emerge from current litigation against the conference. They don’t want to be saddled with having to pay 100% of those costs from future conference revenues and reserves (which of course will be significantly diminished fom current levels), which would be the outcome if all 2023-24 revenue is distributed.

https://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootba...-loom.html

Credit to Billings for posting this on the MWC board.

Good for WSU/OSU.

PAC2 should invite
Ohio St
Michigan
Penn St
Wisconsin
Iowa
Alabama
LSU
Georgia
Florida
Tennessee
Texas
Oklahoma
Auburn
TX AM
Clemson
FSU
USC
Washington

WSU ans OSU would be a better botton than Vandy, Wake, Syracuse, Miss St, Indiana, Minnesota ...

(12-05-2023 08:37 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  If this new proposed NCAA subdivision comes to fruition, it will change the math on any new rebuilt PAC. There is a very real possibility that not every program in the AAC and MWC could afford to meet the mandates for compensation or benefits that this new subdivision will require. Perhaps there will be an airport meeting where the more financially strong universities (which would certainly include Washington State & Oregon State, since they are flush with all that PAC exit fee cash) will forge the new PAC conference in this new highest level of college football. At any rate, the stated mandates will almost certainly remove the Sun Belt, C-USA, and MAC from being part of this new subdivision.

There are no PAC exit fees. I assume you mean distribution of net assets, the amount of which is currently in litigation.

Mountain West discussing adding Oregon State and Washington State for basketball
https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/2...cheduling/

The Mountain West officially announces scheduling alliance with the Pac-12
https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/2...-alliance/

(12-04-2023 03:29 PM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(12-04-2023 10:50 AM)Crayton Wrote:  

(12-03-2023 04:35 PM)Glenn360 Wrote:  Also doesn't today's committee show that there's no guarantee the MWC rebuild is the best of the rest?

Liberty played the worst schedule and got the GO5 bid.

Even if you shuffle the best of the AAC + MWC + P2 is the CFB actually going to treat them as the 5th best conference or just another Group of 5.

F around and have San Jose State steal a Group of 5 bid.

It is a good point but I suspect the “best of the rest” idea is primarily for TV money not the CFP lottery.

The biggest issue I see with current G5 alignment is the recent AAC additions... I've questioned if some "old-guard" members are satisfied with the Texas/UAB/et al. additions and could see some of them willing to pay a penalty to leave for a better setup, and Oregon St./Wazzu are sexier than UAB/Coastal Carolina/UNT.

I regret to say that I still think the idea that makes the most sense is for the Pac-2 to grab four AAC schools, announcing as soon as possible so the teams can join in the 2026 season. I would guess Rice, Memphis, USF and either Tulane/ECU (or both). Then grab SDSU, Boise, CSU, UNLV, Fresno, and either Air Force (If they are willing to join, preferred) or ECU. I could also see a play if Gonzaga doesn't get grabbed by the B12 for a Gonzaga (all sports) and UCONN (football only) combo and adding another MWC school (Utah St.?/San Jose?) as the 14th.

It would be the best money play (compared to a MWC merger), could set itself up as a pretty decent conference, and could be a power play for both Oregon State and Wazzu. It could set itself up to be decently competitive as well.

It could set itself up to get many/most of the g5 slots for the CFP, which is a worthy goal of any g5 conference. However, the money would have to make sense to entice desirable AAC schools like UTSA, Memphis, Rice and Tulane, and I'm not sure there will be enough make it worthwhile for them to move.

It’s being reported that the stay has been lifted so all assets will go to the PAC2. Not sure what their next step is. Do they take their money to the Big 12 for an all-in play, or poach the AAC and some MWC schools?

(12-15-2023 05:17 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  It’s being reported that the stay has been lifted so all assets will go to the PAC2. Not sure what their next step is. Do they take their money to the Big 12 for an all-in play, or poach the AAC and some MWC schools?

If these are the options, they are better off trying to go all-in to get into the B12 than rebuilding the Pac with MWC and AAC schools. No matter what a rebuilt Pac looks like, the new B12 will be better.

(12-15-2023 05:17 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  It’s being reported that the stay has been lifted so all assets will go to the PAC2. Not sure what their next step is. Do they take their money to the Big 12 for an all-in play, ...

Note that they do not get the legacy PAC12 Tourney unit revenue if they join the Big12, so they can't take that money "to the Big12".

What money are you figuring they are going to use to "buy their way in"?

(12-03-2023 02:32 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  They join the MWC for the '26-27 season.

1. OSU/WSU will milk the CFP payments and NCAA basketball credits for 2024-25 and 2025-26, leaving the Pac-12 as a zombie conference with only two members, while playing a nominally independent schedule that is in reality a MWC schedule in Football and Basketball. They are paying the MWC $14M (a year?) to have this scheduling agreement. They are committed to this approach, keeping the Pac-12 name alive with two members, but no conference competitions. It's legal gymnastics to get the maximum money.

Note: other Olympic Sports will be handled individually, some will get NCAA Nationals access by competing in other conference meets (e.g., MPSF for Swimming and Diving, possibly Tennis will be associates in the MWC, etc.)

2. In 2025-26 they will join the Mountain West for the following reasons.
● The available money in the Pac-12 will be dramatically lower with the expiration of CFP contract and the expiration of over half the NCAA tournament credits.
● The hefty anti-poaching penalties in the scheduling agreements makes it too expensive for OSU/WSU to invite MWC schools to the Pac-12
● The MWC schools would lose their NCAA Tournament credits and be starting over at zero.
● The MWC will be negotiating a media contract extension with a bump up for the 2025-26 season through at least 2030-31 season with existing media partners CBS and FOX.

As a result the "merger" will consist of Oregon State and Washington State joining the Mountain West, bringing with them the naming rights of the Pac-12.

While it seems obvious today that the MWC would take the Pac-12 name and us it, I am not at all sure there will be a great desire to take on the name after two years of dormancy in 2025-26. The Cache won't be a strong and won't really be associated with the schools in the conference. Whether they change the name or not, it will be the MWC, with MWC infrastructure and continuity.

It is reasonable but not accurate as it ignores the desire of all schools to get out of the Boise deal and also the importance of being in Texas.


They will merge under the PAC-12 banner if only to kill the Boise deal with the MWC. The big question is who and how many do they take and can they also get central time zone schools from the AAC.

As someone else commented on in this thread or another, the always-accurate MHVER3 is saying there are talks for the Big XII to acquire the Pac-12, then to make the Pac-8 our western division. And then a merger with the ACC leftbehinds and realignment to create one conference with three AQ divisions:

https://twitter.com/MHver3/status/1736021724829733355

It is plausible, IMHO. Desirable? IDK.

(12-17-2023 08:41 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  As someone else commented on in this thread or another, the always-accurate MHVER3 is saying there are talks for the Big XII to acquire the Pac-12, then to make the Pac-8 our western division. And then a merger with the ACC leftbehinds and realignment to create one conference with three AQ divisions:

https://twitter.com/MHver3/status/1736021724829733355

It is plausible, IMHO. Desirable? IDK.

Yeah… there aren’t even 8 western schools unless SDSU is added. As far as five eastern schools, GaTech UL Pitt NCSU Cuse BC WF would be in the mix. I don’t think any western schools get added anytime soon though. No need for Pacific Time Zone as there are no decent brands left there.

I think the 2PacMountainWest will grow the G5 to G6 and shrink the P5 down to P4. I also think the new 2PacMountainWest will be poised to dominate the G6 playoff slot if the the P4 does not figure out a way on how to exclude non Power teams in new playoff format eventually. Still a good chance the P4 consolidates down to P2 or just 64 teams that can afford to pay NIL to their entire athletic departments rosters in all sports including women's sports

(12-17-2023 11:11 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(12-17-2023 08:41 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  As someone else commented on in this thread or another, the always-accurate MHVER3 ...

Yeah… there aren’t even 8 western schools unless SDSU is added. ...

4Cs + Pac-2 + BYU + one more, I'd guess --> Pac-8 division. SDSU could be the one more.

MHVER3 says CU there only temporarily, until switching back to the Big 8 or 12 division. So another would be needed too, but more difficult to ID. I'd argue for UNM, Air Force, or CSU, if it is not SMU.