Currently the SEC stands at 16, The Big 10 at 18, The ACC at 17 plus 1, and the Big 12 at 16 after Oklahoma and Texas leave.

If ESPN was willing to let Florida State go for just the Exit fee of 120 million provided that move cost ESPN no inventory or rights loss in that the move would be to the SEC, and the SEC added Kansas as their traveling companion then Sankey will have reunited 2 old rivals, taken the current wins leader in college basketball and a hoops blueblood, and added a top 15 value for football. At 18 the SEC would not only be tight and competitive, but profitable, and more manageable, and more profitable than it could be at 20 or 24.

Who would the ACC add to get back to strength? Perhaps Tulane. Odd choice right? Notre Dame likes games which give them a great deal of exposure in New England, recruit heavy states like Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas, and in California. Address all of those in one conference and you've done the practically impossible. Well if the ACC lost Florida State and replaced them with Tulane they will have done just that. They would be at 14 full members counting Tulane. Then you add California, Stanford, and S.M.U. to take the conference to 17 full members plus Notre Dame.

That conference would be ideal for a Notre Dame home in a breakaway upper tier where conference finish could well be tied to the CFP. Notre Dame becomes the 18.

Without the potential of the Irish to cover any further additions the Big 10 is likely done at 18.

If the Irish join the new ACC in full they have a fast track to the CFP, the academic and athletic peers they have long wanted, a presence everywhere they would like one, and by joining in full they bring up their, and everyone else's, revenue. It still wouldn't catch the SEC and Big 10 but with a market enhanced ACCN and Notre Dame's national draw they could double the T3 money easily and everyone might still get a 7 to 10 million dollar bump to close in on 50 million plus CFP money and bowl money and tourney credits.

The SEC would rest without the fear that the Big 10 may try to encroach their territory. The ACC would no longer have to contend with a very unhappy FSU. Clemson would have a bit easier time recovering from coaching staff graduations, and suddenly many schools would be in greater competition for annual success. And most importantly ESPN will not have lost markets or brands and will have augmented them.

What would Yormark do? He's already looking at Gonzaga to fill a hoops niche. Perhaps he also looks again at Connecticut. Oregon State and Washington State still add more than additional G5 brands could. They are at 16 in the Big 12 after OU and UT depart and the 4 corners settle in. They could add Oregon State and Washington State if the ACC doesn't decide to go in that direction to take them to 18, picking up UConn to replace a departing Kansas keeps them there. Then add Gonzaga for all but football and perhaps look at doing the same with other non-football playing Big East teams.

The resulting mix could be quite potent in ensuring a P4 upper tier to exclusively furnish the CFP and potentially a new hoops tournament.

ESPN could afford to move FSU and pay them SEC pro rata. And to do the same for Kansas brings the total cost to 75 million for both. A sum easily made up with enhanced content value by having both of those playing stronger brands on a regular basis.

Bringing in Tulane would be nothing for ESPN to accomplish for the ACC, and if Notre Dame goes all in it is well worth the move. Due to the skewed geography however this 18 school ACC would need to remain division-less, while the SEC could return to 3 divisions of 6 if it wished and help with travel by organizing the divisions geographically.

Anyway, it is a minimalist's way around the final moves and the locking in of conferences for a new P4 and upper tier of 72 schools, roughly half of the FBS.

This approach has the fewest moving parts, the smallest increases in overhead, and the greatest upside of any we have discussed and is very possible.

Feel free to discuss it. It might be your future.

3 divisions could be a problem.
West-Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Texas A&M. Seems obvious.
Central-LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Tennessee, Vandy, Kentucky?
East-Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, FSU?

(10-24-2023 06:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Currently the SEC stands at 16, The Big 10 at 18, The ACC at 17 plus 1, and the Big 12 at 16 after Oklahoma and Texas leave.

If ESPN was willing to let Florida State go for just the Exit fee of 120 million provided that move cost ESPN no inventory or rights loss in that the move would be to the SEC, and the SEC added Kansas as their traveling companion then Sankey will have reunited 2 old rivals, taken the current wins leader in college basketball and a hoops blueblood, and added a top 15 value for football. At 18 the SEC would not only be tight and competitive, but profitable, and more manageable, and more profitable than it could be at 20 or 24.

Who would the ACC add to get back to strength? Perhaps Tulane. Odd choice right? Notre Dame likes games which give them a great deal of exposure in New England, recruit heavy states like Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas, and in California. Address all of those in one conference and you've done the practically impossible. Well if the ACC lost Florida State and replaced them with Tulane they will have done just that. They would be at 14 full members counting Tulane. Then you add California, Stanford, and S.M.U. to take the conference to 17 full members plus Notre Dame.

That conference would be ideal for a Notre Dame home in a breakaway upper tier where conference finish could well be tied to the CFP. Notre Dame becomes the 18.

Without the potential of the Irish to cover any further additions the Big 10 is likely done at 18.

If the Irish join the new ACC in full they have a fast track to the CFP, the academic and athletic peers they have long wanted, a presence everywhere they would like one, and by joining in full they bring up their, and everyone else's, revenue. It still wouldn't catch the SEC and Big 10 but with a market enhanced ACCN and Notre Dame's national draw they could double the T3 money easily and everyone might still get a 7 to 10 million dollar bump to close in on 50 million plus CFP money and bowl money and tourney credits.

The SEC would rest without the fear that the Big 10 may try to encroach their territory. The ACC would no longer have to contend with a very unhappy FSU. Clemson would have a bit easier time recovering from coaching staff graduations, and suddenly many schools would be in greater competition for annual success. And most importantly ESPN will not have lost markets or brands and will have augmented them.

What would Yormark do? He's already looking at Gonzaga to fill a hoops niche. Perhaps he also looks again at Connecticut. Oregon State and Washington State still add more than additional G5 brands could. They are at 16 in the Big 12 after OU and UT depart and the 4 corners settle in. They could add Oregon State and Washington State if the ACC doesn't decide to go in that direction to take them to 18, picking up UConn to replace a departing Kansas keeps them there. Then add Gonzaga for all but football and perhaps look at doing the same with other non-football playing Big East teams.

The resulting mix could be quite potent in ensuring a P4 upper tier to exclusively furnish the CFP and potentially a new hoops tournament.

ESPN could afford to move FSU and pay them SEC pro rata. And to do the same for Kansas brings the total cost to 75 million for both. A sum easily made up with enhanced content value by having both of those playing stronger brands on a regular basis.

Bringing in Tulane would be nothing for ESPN to accomplish for the ACC, and if Notre Dame goes all in it is well worth the move. Due to the skewed geography however this 18 school ACC would need to remain division-less, while the SEC could return to 3 divisions of 6 if it wished and help with travel by organizing the divisions geographically.

Anyway, it is a minimalist's way around the final moves and the locking in of conferences for a new P4 and upper tier of 72 schools, roughly half of the FBS.

This approach has the fewest moving parts, the smallest increases in overhead, and the greatest upside of any we have discussed and is very possible.

Feel free to discuss it. It might be your future.

From your lips to God's ear. . . Btw, since we've had to vacate a FF and 15 victories, KU might need a very good season or two to re-pass UK in the overall victory total; but yes, KU is and always will be a basketball blueblood.

(10-24-2023 07:47 PM)Porcine Wrote:  3 divisions could be a problem.
West-Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Texas A&M. Seems obvious.
Central-LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Tennessee, Vandy, Kentucky?
East-Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, FSU?

Arkansas, Kansas Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky

(10-24-2023 08:14 PM)EdwordL Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 06:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Currently the SEC stands at 16, The Big 10 at 18, The ACC at 17 plus 1, and the Big 12 at 16 after Oklahoma and Texas leave.

If ESPN was willing to let Florida State go for just the Exit fee of 120 million provided that move cost ESPN no inventory or rights loss in that the move would be to the SEC, and the SEC added Kansas as their traveling companion then Sankey will have reunited 2 old rivals, taken the current wins leader in college basketball and a hoops blueblood, and added a top 15 value for football. At 18 the SEC would not only be tight and competitive, but profitable, and more manageable, and more profitable than it could be at 20 or 24.

Who would the ACC add to get back to strength? Perhaps Tulane. Odd choice right? Notre Dame likes games which give them a great deal of exposure in New England, recruit heavy states like Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas, and in California. Address all of those in one conference and you've done the practically impossible. Well if the ACC lost Florida State and replaced them with Tulane they will have done just that. They would be at 14 full members counting Tulane. Then you add California, Stanford, and S.M.U. to take the conference to 17 full members plus Notre Dame.

That conference would be ideal for a Notre Dame home in a breakaway upper tier where conference finish could well be tied to the CFP. Notre Dame becomes the 18.

Without the potential of the Irish to cover any further additions the Big 10 is likely done at 18.

If the Irish join the new ACC in full they have a fast track to the CFP, the academic and athletic peers they have long wanted, a presence everywhere they would like one, and by joining in full they bring up their, and everyone else's, revenue. It still wouldn't catch the SEC and Big 10 but with a market enhanced ACCN and Notre Dame's national draw they could double the T3 money easily and everyone might still get a 7 to 10 million dollar bump to close in on 50 million plus CFP money and bowl money and tourney credits.

The SEC would rest without the fear that the Big 10 may try to encroach their territory. The ACC would no longer have to contend with a very unhappy FSU. Clemson would have a bit easier time recovering from coaching staff graduations, and suddenly many schools would be in greater competition for annual success. And most importantly ESPN will not have lost markets or brands and will have augmented them.

What would Yormark do? He's already looking at Gonzaga to fill a hoops niche. Perhaps he also looks again at Connecticut. Oregon State and Washington State still add more than additional G5 brands could. They are at 16 in the Big 12 after OU and UT depart and the 4 corners settle in. They could add Oregon State and Washington State if the ACC doesn't decide to go in that direction to take them to 18, picking up UConn to replace a departing Kansas keeps them there. Then add Gonzaga for all but football and perhaps look at doing the same with other non-football playing Big East teams.

The resulting mix could be quite potent in ensuring a P4 upper tier to exclusively furnish the CFP and potentially a new hoops tournament.

ESPN could afford to move FSU and pay them SEC pro rata. And to do the same for Kansas brings the total cost to 75 million for both. A sum easily made up with enhanced content value by having both of those playing stronger brands on a regular basis.

Bringing in Tulane would be nothing for ESPN to accomplish for the ACC, and if Notre Dame goes all in it is well worth the move. Due to the skewed geography however this 18 school ACC would need to remain division-less, while the SEC could return to 3 divisions of 6 if it wished and help with travel by organizing the divisions geographically.

Anyway, it is a minimalist's way around the final moves and the locking in of conferences for a new P4 and upper tier of 72 schools, roughly half of the FBS.

This approach has the fewest moving parts, the smallest increases in overhead, and the greatest upside of any we have discussed and is very possible.

Feel free to discuss it. It might be your future.

From your lips to God's ear. . . Btw, since we've had to vacate a FF and 15 victories, KU might need a very good season or two to re-pass UK in the overall victory total; but yes, KU is and always will be a basketball blueblood.

I love the 18 school set up with this. It's terrific if it all stops there, and it is a definitive platform if at some point we add more. It gets the framing of the conference done and leaves room for North Carolina and Virginia schools should those ever need to leave a more cohesive ACC. Truly though the best defense for this version of the SEC is a healthy ACC.

JR, once again you have the right string, baby, but the wrong yo-yo.
Just moving Florida State into the SEC is not the problem or the solution. I would suggest that the SEC remain at 16, where it can be the most compact and continue to be the most valuable football conference in the land. This can be accomplished by simply moving Vanderbilt into the ACC. I think you are correct in your assessment that the ACC could then add Tulane as their #18.

The SEC gets greater control over the Florida market while the ACCN adds an additional two states to collect in-state rates.

The SEC can utilize Kansas in series with Missouri and Oklahoma without having to bring them into the SEC where they would have no common ground with other SEC schools.

SEC
Texas, A&M, Oklahoma, Missouri, Oklahoma, LSU, Ole Miss, MSU
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky

ACC
Cal, Stanford, SMU, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Miami, GT, Wake Forest, Duke, NCSU, Carolina, UVa, VT, Louisville, Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Clemson

(10-25-2023 05:01 AM)XLance Wrote:  JR, once again you have the right string, baby, but the wrong yo-yo.
Just moving Florida State into the SEC is not the problem or the solution. I would suggest that the SEC remain at 16, where it can be the most compact and continue to be the most valuable football conference in the land. This can be accomplished by simply moving Vanderbilt into the ACC. I think you are correct in your assessment that the ACC could then add Tulane as their #18.

The SEC gets greater control over the Florida market while the ACCN adds an additional two states to collect in-state rates.

The SEC can utilize Kansas in series with Missouri and Oklahoma without having to bring them into the SEC where they would have no common ground with other SEC schools.

SEC
Texas, A&M, Oklahoma, Missouri, Oklahoma, LSU, Ole Miss, MSU
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky

ACC
Cal, Stanford, SMU, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Miami, GT, Wake Forest, Duke, NCSU, Carolina, UVa, VT, Louisville, Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Clemson

No X, the SEC will have the same inventory as its rival. And Kansas brings what Kentucky needs, and what the SEC needs, another headliner in hoops.

What's really happening here is that you are singing the same one note tune. Now if you want Vanderbilt that badly go for it. Miami would fill in nicely as a private.

(10-25-2023 06:34 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 05:01 AM)XLance Wrote:  JR, once again you have the right string, baby, but the wrong yo-yo.
Just moving Florida State into the SEC is not the problem or the solution. I would suggest that the SEC remain at 16, where it can be the most compact and continue to be the most valuable football conference in the land. This can be accomplished by simply moving Vanderbilt into the ACC. I think you are correct in your assessment that the ACC could then add Tulane as their #18.

The SEC gets greater control over the Florida market while the ACCN adds an additional two states to collect in-state rates.

The SEC can utilize Kansas in series with Missouri and Oklahoma without having to bring them into the SEC where they would have no common ground with other SEC schools.

SEC
Texas, A&M, Oklahoma, Missouri, Oklahoma, LSU, Ole Miss, MSU
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky

ACC
Cal, Stanford, SMU, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Miami, GT, Wake Forest, Duke, NCSU, Carolina, UVa, VT, Louisville, Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Clemson

No X, the SEC will have the same inventory as its rival. And Kansas brings what Kentucky needs, and what the SEC needs, another headliner in hoops.

What's really happening here is that you are singing the same one note tune. Now if you want Vanderbilt that badly go for it. Miami would fill in nicely as a private.

Carolina and Vanderbilt will battle it out for the first collegiate team golf championship tournament in St. Andrews, Scotland, this afternoon (you can watch it live now or on the golf channel later today on a replay).
Yesterday Carolina won the woman's individual and Vanderbilt won the men's individual championships.

If the SEC wants wants what Kentucky needs....they can invite West Virginia.... then those two can hold "couch burning" championships!

(10-25-2023 08:16 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 06:34 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 05:01 AM)XLance Wrote:  JR, once again you have the right string, baby, but the wrong yo-yo.
Just moving Florida State into the SEC is not the problem or the solution. I would suggest that the SEC remain at 16, where it can be the most compact and continue to be the most valuable football conference in the land. This can be accomplished by simply moving Vanderbilt into the ACC. I think you are correct in your assessment that the ACC could then add Tulane as their #18.

The SEC gets greater control over the Florida market while the ACCN adds an additional two states to collect in-state rates.

The SEC can utilize Kansas in series with Missouri and Oklahoma without having to bring them into the SEC where they would have no common ground with other SEC schools.

SEC
Texas, A&M, Oklahoma, Missouri, Oklahoma, LSU, Ole Miss, MSU
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky

ACC
Cal, Stanford, SMU, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Miami, GT, Wake Forest, Duke, NCSU, Carolina, UVa, VT, Louisville, Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Clemson

No X, the SEC will have the same inventory as its rival. And Kansas brings what Kentucky needs, and what the SEC needs, another headliner in hoops.

What's really happening here is that you are singing the same one note tune. Now if you want Vanderbilt that badly go for it. Miami would fill in nicely as a private.

Carolina and Vanderbilt will battle it out for the first collegiate team golf championship tournament in St. Andrews, Scotland, this afternoon (you can watch it live now or on the golf channel later today on a replay).
Yesterday Carolina won the woman's individual and Vanderbilt won the men's individual championships.

If the SEC wants wants what Kentucky needs....they can invite West Virginia.... then those two can hold "couch burning" championships!

I hear it's "catching" on in other locales as well. Invest in Barcalounger.

(10-25-2023 08:18 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 08:16 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 06:34 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 05:01 AM)XLance Wrote:  JR, once again you have the right string, baby, but the wrong yo-yo.
Just moving Florida State into the SEC is not the problem or the solution. I would suggest that the SEC remain at 16, where it can be the most compact and continue to be the most valuable football conference in the land. This can be accomplished by simply moving Vanderbilt into the ACC. I think you are correct in your assessment that the ACC could then add Tulane as their #18.

The SEC gets greater control over the Florida market while the ACCN adds an additional two states to collect in-state rates.

The SEC can utilize Kansas in series with Missouri and Oklahoma without having to bring them into the SEC where they would have no common ground with other SEC schools.

SEC
Texas, A&M, Oklahoma, Missouri, Oklahoma, LSU, Ole Miss, MSU
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky

ACC
Cal, Stanford, SMU, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Miami, GT, Wake Forest, Duke, NCSU, Carolina, UVa, VT, Louisville, Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Clemson

No X, the SEC will have the same inventory as its rival. And Kansas brings what Kentucky needs, and what the SEC needs, another headliner in hoops.

What's really happening here is that you are singing the same one note tune. Now if you want Vanderbilt that badly go for it. Miami would fill in nicely as a private.

Carolina and Vanderbilt will battle it out for the first collegiate team golf championship tournament in St. Andrews, Scotland, this afternoon (you can watch it live now or on the golf channel later today on a replay).
Yesterday Carolina won the woman's individual and Vanderbilt won the men's individual championships.

If the SEC wants wants what Kentucky needs....they can invite West Virginia.... then those two can hold "couch burning" championships!

I hear it's "catching" on in other locales as well. Invest in Barcalounger.

Congrats to the Vanderbilt men's golf team.

(10-24-2023 06:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Currently the SEC stands at 16, The Big 10 at 18, The ACC at 17 plus 1, and the Big 12 at 16 after Oklahoma and Texas leave.

If ESPN was willing to let Florida State go for just the Exit fee of 120 million provided that move cost ESPN no inventory or rights loss in that the move would be to the SEC, and the SEC added Kansas as their traveling companion then Sankey will have reunited 2 old rivals, taken the current wins leader in college basketball and a hoops blueblood, and added a top 15 value for football. At 18 the SEC would not only be tight and competitive, but profitable, and more manageable, and more profitable than it could be at 20 or 24.

Who would the ACC add to get back to strength? Perhaps Tulane. Odd choice right? Notre Dame likes games which give them a great deal of exposure in New England, recruit heavy states like Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas, and in California. Address all of those in one conference and you've done the practically impossible. Well if the ACC lost Florida State and replaced them with Tulane they will have done just that. They would be at 14 full members counting Tulane. Then you add California, Stanford, and S.M.U. to take the conference to 17 full members plus Notre Dame.

That conference would be ideal for a Notre Dame home in a breakaway upper tier where conference finish could well be tied to the CFP. Notre Dame becomes the 18.

Without the potential of the Irish to cover any further additions the Big 10 is likely done at 18.

If the Irish join the new ACC in full they have a fast track to the CFP, the academic and athletic peers they have long wanted, a presence everywhere they would like one, and by joining in full they bring up their, and everyone else's, revenue. It still wouldn't catch the SEC and Big 10 but with a market enhanced ACCN and Notre Dame's national draw they could double the T3 money easily and everyone might still get a 7 to 10 million dollar bump to close in on 50 million plus CFP money and bowl money and tourney credits.

The SEC would rest without the fear that the Big 10 may try to encroach their territory. The ACC would no longer have to contend with a very unhappy FSU. Clemson would have a bit easier time recovering from coaching staff graduations, and suddenly many schools would be in greater competition for annual success. And most importantly ESPN will not have lost markets or brands and will have augmented them.

What would Yormark do? He's already looking at Gonzaga to fill a hoops niche. Perhaps he also looks again at Connecticut. Oregon State and Washington State still add more than additional G5 brands could. They are at 16 in the Big 12 after OU and UT depart and the 4 corners settle in. They could add Oregon State and Washington State if the ACC doesn't decide to go in that direction to take them to 18, picking up UConn to replace a departing Kansas keeps them there. Then add Gonzaga for all but football and perhaps look at doing the same with other non-football playing Big East teams.

The resulting mix could be quite potent in ensuring a P4 upper tier to exclusively furnish the CFP and potentially a new hoops tournament.

ESPN could afford to move FSU and pay them SEC pro rata. And to do the same for Kansas brings the total cost to 75 million for both. A sum easily made up with enhanced content value by having both of those playing stronger brands on a regular basis.

Bringing in Tulane would be nothing for ESPN to accomplish for the ACC, and if Notre Dame goes all in it is well worth the move. Due to the skewed geography however this 18 school ACC would need to remain division-less, while the SEC could return to 3 divisions of 6 if it wished and help with travel by organizing the divisions geographically.

Anyway, it is a minimalist's way around the final moves and the locking in of conferences for a new P4 and upper tier of 72 schools, roughly half of the FBS.

This approach has the fewest moving parts, the smallest increases in overhead, and the greatest upside of any we have discussed and is very possible.

Feel free to discuss it. It might be your future.

Moving Florida State has little upside benefit and carries lots of risk. What would create value for the ACC and ESPN are more meaningful games against Notre Dame. Especially games like Notre Dame versus a resurgent FSU. If Notre Dame has any interest in joining a conference for football, then having FSU in the ACC is essential to fully leveraging the potential value. I don't see how switching FSU for Tulane helps Notre Dame, nor ESPN, nor the ACC.

The SEC also has a simpler path to joining the B1G and ACC at 18 members, add Kansas and Colorado. A regional split would be natural:
East: UF, UGA, USC, UTK, Vanderbilt and UK
Gulf: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, MSU, LSU and Arkansas
West: UTx, TAMU, OU, Mizzou, KU and Colorado

(10-25-2023 12:17 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 06:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Currently the SEC stands at 16, The Big 10 at 18, The ACC at 17 plus 1, and the Big 12 at 16 after Oklahoma and Texas leave.

If ESPN was willing to let Florida State go for just the Exit fee of 120 million provided that move cost ESPN no inventory or rights loss in that the move would be to the SEC, and the SEC added Kansas as their traveling companion then Sankey will have reunited 2 old rivals, taken the current wins leader in college basketball and a hoops blueblood, and added a top 15 value for football. At 18 the SEC would not only be tight and competitive, but profitable, and more manageable, and more profitable than it could be at 20 or 24.

Who would the ACC add to get back to strength? Perhaps Tulane. Odd choice right? Notre Dame likes games which give them a great deal of exposure in New England, recruit heavy states like Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas, and in California. Address all of those in one conference and you've done the practically impossible. Well if the ACC lost Florida State and replaced them with Tulane they will have done just that. They would be at 14 full members counting Tulane. Then you add California, Stanford, and S.M.U. to take the conference to 17 full members plus Notre Dame.

That conference would be ideal for a Notre Dame home in a breakaway upper tier where conference finish could well be tied to the CFP. Notre Dame becomes the 18.

Without the potential of the Irish to cover any further additions the Big 10 is likely done at 18.

If the Irish join the new ACC in full they have a fast track to the CFP, the academic and athletic peers they have long wanted, a presence everywhere they would like one, and by joining in full they bring up their, and everyone else's, revenue. It still wouldn't catch the SEC and Big 10 but with a market enhanced ACCN and Notre Dame's national draw they could double the T3 money easily and everyone might still get a 7 to 10 million dollar bump to close in on 50 million plus CFP money and bowl money and tourney credits.

The SEC would rest without the fear that the Big 10 may try to encroach their territory. The ACC would no longer have to contend with a very unhappy FSU. Clemson would have a bit easier time recovering from coaching staff graduations, and suddenly many schools would be in greater competition for annual success. And most importantly ESPN will not have lost markets or brands and will have augmented them.

What would Yormark do? He's already looking at Gonzaga to fill a hoops niche. Perhaps he also looks again at Connecticut. Oregon State and Washington State still add more than additional G5 brands could. They are at 16 in the Big 12 after OU and UT depart and the 4 corners settle in. They could add Oregon State and Washington State if the ACC doesn't decide to go in that direction to take them to 18, picking up UConn to replace a departing Kansas keeps them there. Then add Gonzaga for all but football and perhaps look at doing the same with other non-football playing Big East teams.

The resulting mix could be quite potent in ensuring a P4 upper tier to exclusively furnish the CFP and potentially a new hoops tournament.

ESPN could afford to move FSU and pay them SEC pro rata. And to do the same for Kansas brings the total cost to 75 million for both. A sum easily made up with enhanced content value by having both of those playing stronger brands on a regular basis.

Bringing in Tulane would be nothing for ESPN to accomplish for the ACC, and if Notre Dame goes all in it is well worth the move. Due to the skewed geography however this 18 school ACC would need to remain division-less, while the SEC could return to 3 divisions of 6 if it wished and help with travel by organizing the divisions geographically.

Anyway, it is a minimalist's way around the final moves and the locking in of conferences for a new P4 and upper tier of 72 schools, roughly half of the FBS.

This approach has the fewest moving parts, the smallest increases in overhead, and the greatest upside of any we have discussed and is very possible.

Feel free to discuss it. It might be your future.

Moving Florida State has little upside benefit and carries lots of risk. What would create value for the ACC and ESPN are more meaningful games against Notre Dame. Especially games like Notre Dame versus a resurgent FSU. If Notre Dame has any interest in joining a conference for football, then having FSU in the ACC is essential to fully leveraging the potential value. I don't see how switching FSU for Tulane helps Notre Dame, nor ESPN, nor the ACC.

The SEC also has a simpler path to joining the B1G and ACC at 18 members, add Kansas and Colorado. A regional split would be natural:
East: UF, UGA, USC, UTK, Vanderbilt and UK
Gulf: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, MSU, LSU and Arkansas
West: UTx, TAMU, OU, Mizzou, KU and Colorado

FSU has stated outright that they aren't happy with the ACC, and that they are willing to consider the B1G as an option.
Something else that would create more interest for Notre Dame is Miami (FL) returning to form as well as Georgia Tech, IMO. Tulane would still be a positive because New Orleans has a heavy Catholic presence and it's been that way for several years. New Orleans is very different from the rest of the South in that respect, IMO.

With FSU/KU to the SEC, I think the ACC feels like they need more Florida and bring in USF.
Big 12 probably does UConn to replace KU basketball. That's who Yormack was talking to.

(10-25-2023 03:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  With FSU/KU to the SEC, I think the ACC feels like they need more Florida and bring in USF.
Big 12 probably does UConn to replace KU basketball. That's who Yormack was talking to.

Perhaps.
What I can imagine is that the SEC moves to add not only FSU and Kansas, but Colorado as well (Prime has proven that there is a potential market there for college football). That addition, along with Kansas, pairs well with Missouri and Oklahoma.

The ACC gets to 18 with the addition of Vanderbilt and Tulane.

I can see USF then being added to the B12 to pair with UCF to help that conference's entry into Florida. Remember that ESPN has the majority of the B12's football content (this gives ESPN three opportunities to gain access to Florida football). The B12, then might look at Memphis, Oregon State and Washington State to get to 18.

(10-25-2023 01:52 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 12:17 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 06:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Currently the SEC stands at 16, The Big 10 at 18, The ACC at 17 plus 1, and the Big 12 at 16 after Oklahoma and Texas leave.

If ESPN was willing to let Florida State go for just the Exit fee of 120 million provided that move cost ESPN no inventory or rights loss in that the move would be to the SEC, and the SEC added Kansas as their traveling companion then Sankey will have reunited 2 old rivals, taken the current wins leader in college basketball and a hoops blueblood, and added a top 15 value for football. At 18 the SEC would not only be tight and competitive, but profitable, and more manageable, and more profitable than it could be at 20 or 24.

Who would the ACC add to get back to strength? Perhaps Tulane. Odd choice right? Notre Dame likes games which give them a great deal of exposure in New England, recruit heavy states like Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas, and in California. Address all of those in one conference and you've done the practically impossible. Well if the ACC lost Florida State and replaced them with Tulane they will have done just that. They would be at 14 full members counting Tulane. Then you add California, Stanford, and S.M.U. to take the conference to 17 full members plus Notre Dame.

That conference would be ideal for a Notre Dame home in a breakaway upper tier where conference finish could well be tied to the CFP. Notre Dame becomes the 18.

Without the potential of the Irish to cover any further additions the Big 10 is likely done at 18.

If the Irish join the new ACC in full they have a fast track to the CFP, the academic and athletic peers they have long wanted, a presence everywhere they would like one, and by joining in full they bring up their, and everyone else's, revenue. It still wouldn't catch the SEC and Big 10 but with a market enhanced ACCN and Notre Dame's national draw they could double the T3 money easily and everyone might still get a 7 to 10 million dollar bump to close in on 50 million plus CFP money and bowl money and tourney credits.

The SEC would rest without the fear that the Big 10 may try to encroach their territory. The ACC would no longer have to contend with a very unhappy FSU. Clemson would have a bit easier time recovering from coaching staff graduations, and suddenly many schools would be in greater competition for annual success. And most importantly ESPN will not have lost markets or brands and will have augmented them.

What would Yormark do? He's already looking at Gonzaga to fill a hoops niche. Perhaps he also looks again at Connecticut. Oregon State and Washington State still add more than additional G5 brands could. They are at 16 in the Big 12 after OU and UT depart and the 4 corners settle in. They could add Oregon State and Washington State if the ACC doesn't decide to go in that direction to take them to 18, picking up UConn to replace a departing Kansas keeps them there. Then add Gonzaga for all but football and perhaps look at doing the same with other non-football playing Big East teams.

The resulting mix could be quite potent in ensuring a P4 upper tier to exclusively furnish the CFP and potentially a new hoops tournament.

ESPN could afford to move FSU and pay them SEC pro rata. And to do the same for Kansas brings the total cost to 75 million for both. A sum easily made up with enhanced content value by having both of those playing stronger brands on a regular basis.

Bringing in Tulane would be nothing for ESPN to accomplish for the ACC, and if Notre Dame goes all in it is well worth the move. Due to the skewed geography however this 18 school ACC would need to remain division-less, while the SEC could return to 3 divisions of 6 if it wished and help with travel by organizing the divisions geographically.

Anyway, it is a minimalist's way around the final moves and the locking in of conferences for a new P4 and upper tier of 72 schools, roughly half of the FBS.

This approach has the fewest moving parts, the smallest increases in overhead, and the greatest upside of any we have discussed and is very possible.

Feel free to discuss it. It might be your future.

Moving Florida State has little upside benefit and carries lots of risk. What would create value for the ACC and ESPN are more meaningful games against Notre Dame. Especially games like Notre Dame versus a resurgent FSU. If Notre Dame has any interest in joining a conference for football, then having FSU in the ACC is essential to fully leveraging the potential value. I don't see how switching FSU for Tulane helps Notre Dame, nor ESPN, nor the ACC.

The SEC also has a simpler path to joining the B1G and ACC at 18 members, add Kansas and Colorado. A regional split would be natural:
East: UF, UGA, USC, UTK, Vanderbilt and UK
Gulf: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, MSU, LSU and Arkansas
West: UTx, TAMU, OU, Mizzou, KU and Colorado

FSU has stated outright that they aren't happy with the ACC, and that they are willing to consider the B1G as an option.
Something else that would create more interest for Notre Dame is Miami (FL) returning to form as well as Georgia Tech, IMO. Tulane would still be a positive because New Orleans has a heavy Catholic presence and it's been that way for several years. New Orleans is very different from the rest of the South in that respect, IMO.

Completely understand that FSU is unhappy in the ACC. That is a given.

In the hypothetical scenario above, the environment changes. Specifically, 1) Notre Dame now wants to join the ACC full-time in football, and 2) ESPN is subsequently willing to pay ACC substantially more money as an 18-team conference.

I’m not arguing whether this new environment changes FSU’s happiness with the ACC. My point is that ESPN and Notre Dame are the only parties with leverage in this new scenario.

ESPN wants to maximize profits. Yet in this hypothetical they’re willing to forego proven ratings bonanzas (ND v FSU; Clemson v FSU; Miami v FSU; etc.) and the ACC’s historic top media brand? No, ESPN will use its new leverage to keep FSU in the ACC.

More importantly, Notre Dame now theoretically wants to join the ACC as a football member. Does trading FSU for Tulane strengthen ACC football and the conference? No.

Moving FSU now has to result from a win-win-win scenario.

(10-26-2023 10:10 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 01:52 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 12:17 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 06:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Currently the SEC stands at 16, The Big 10 at 18, The ACC at 17 plus 1, and the Big 12 at 16 after Oklahoma and Texas leave.

If ESPN was willing to let Florida State go for just the Exit fee of 120 million provided that move cost ESPN no inventory or rights loss in that the move would be to the SEC, and the SEC added Kansas as their traveling companion then Sankey will have reunited 2 old rivals, taken the current wins leader in college basketball and a hoops blueblood, and added a top 15 value for football. At 18 the SEC would not only be tight and competitive, but profitable, and more manageable, and more profitable than it could be at 20 or 24.

Who would the ACC add to get back to strength? Perhaps Tulane. Odd choice right? Notre Dame likes games which give them a great deal of exposure in New England, recruit heavy states like Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas, and in California. Address all of those in one conference and you've done the practically impossible. Well if the ACC lost Florida State and replaced them with Tulane they will have done just that. They would be at 14 full members counting Tulane. Then you add California, Stanford, and S.M.U. to take the conference to 17 full members plus Notre Dame.

That conference would be ideal for a Notre Dame home in a breakaway upper tier where conference finish could well be tied to the CFP. Notre Dame becomes the 18.

Without the potential of the Irish to cover any further additions the Big 10 is likely done at 18.

If the Irish join the new ACC in full they have a fast track to the CFP, the academic and athletic peers they have long wanted, a presence everywhere they would like one, and by joining in full they bring up their, and everyone else's, revenue. It still wouldn't catch the SEC and Big 10 but with a market enhanced ACCN and Notre Dame's national draw they could double the T3 money easily and everyone might still get a 7 to 10 million dollar bump to close in on 50 million plus CFP money and bowl money and tourney credits.

The SEC would rest without the fear that the Big 10 may try to encroach their territory. The ACC would no longer have to contend with a very unhappy FSU. Clemson would have a bit easier time recovering from coaching staff graduations, and suddenly many schools would be in greater competition for annual success. And most importantly ESPN will not have lost markets or brands and will have augmented them.

What would Yormark do? He's already looking at Gonzaga to fill a hoops niche. Perhaps he also looks again at Connecticut. Oregon State and Washington State still add more than additional G5 brands could. They are at 16 in the Big 12 after OU and UT depart and the 4 corners settle in. They could add Oregon State and Washington State if the ACC doesn't decide to go in that direction to take them to 18, picking up UConn to replace a departing Kansas keeps them there. Then add Gonzaga for all but football and perhaps look at doing the same with other non-football playing Big East teams.

The resulting mix could be quite potent in ensuring a P4 upper tier to exclusively furnish the CFP and potentially a new hoops tournament.

ESPN could afford to move FSU and pay them SEC pro rata. And to do the same for Kansas brings the total cost to 75 million for both. A sum easily made up with enhanced content value by having both of those playing stronger brands on a regular basis.

Bringing in Tulane would be nothing for ESPN to accomplish for the ACC, and if Notre Dame goes all in it is well worth the move. Due to the skewed geography however this 18 school ACC would need to remain division-less, while the SEC could return to 3 divisions of 6 if it wished and help with travel by organizing the divisions geographically.

Anyway, it is a minimalist's way around the final moves and the locking in of conferences for a new P4 and upper tier of 72 schools, roughly half of the FBS.

This approach has the fewest moving parts, the smallest increases in overhead, and the greatest upside of any we have discussed and is very possible.

Feel free to discuss it. It might be your future.

Moving Florida State has little upside benefit and carries lots of risk. What would create value for the ACC and ESPN are more meaningful games against Notre Dame. Especially games like Notre Dame versus a resurgent FSU. If Notre Dame has any interest in joining a conference for football, then having FSU in the ACC is essential to fully leveraging the potential value. I don't see how switching FSU for Tulane helps Notre Dame, nor ESPN, nor the ACC.

The SEC also has a simpler path to joining the B1G and ACC at 18 members, add Kansas and Colorado. A regional split would be natural:
East: UF, UGA, USC, UTK, Vanderbilt and UK
Gulf: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, MSU, LSU and Arkansas
West: UTx, TAMU, OU, Mizzou, KU and Colorado

FSU has stated outright that they aren't happy with the ACC, and that they are willing to consider the B1G as an option.
Something else that would create more interest for Notre Dame is Miami (FL) returning to form as well as Georgia Tech, IMO. Tulane would still be a positive because New Orleans has a heavy Catholic presence and it's been that way for several years. New Orleans is very different from the rest of the South in that respect, IMO.

Completely understand that FSU is unhappy in the ACC. That is a given.

In the hypothetical scenario above, the environment changes. Specifically, 1) Notre Dame now wants to join the ACC full-time in football, and 2) ESPN is subsequently willing to pay ACC substantially more money as an 18-team conference.

I’m not arguing whether this new environment changes FSU’s happiness with the ACC. My point is that ESPN and Notre Dame are the only parties with leverage in this new scenario.

ESPN wants to maximize profits. Yet in this hypothetical they’re willing to forego proven ratings bonanzas (ND v FSU; Clemson v FSU; Miami v FSU; etc.) and the ACC’s historic top media brand? No, ESPN will use its new leverage to keep FSU in the ACC.

More importantly, Notre Dame now theoretically wants to join the ACC as a football member. Does trading FSU for Tulane strengthen ACC football and the conference? No.

Moving FSU now has to result from a win-win-win scenario.

1. Notre Dame is more valuable than FSU, and FSU will be more valuable to ESPN in the SEC, even if Notre Dame joins the ACC.

2. The kind of bump in revenue the ACC would receive is plenty for basketball first schools and for Notre Dame which makes money in a lot of other ways. It gives the Irish what they would like, games against foes their fans and AD want to see them play, and all in one conference. Now like every other school in the nation what they decide to do with a couple of OOC games gives them variety, and the new ACC a platform from which they can reach the CFP frequently.

3. Really outside of Florida State and Notre Dame there aren't many schools that add value to the SEC unless ESPN wants to pay them pro rata. Without Notre Dame and Florida State there's not much there for the Big 10 outside of North Carolina which either Conference would still want for the market, and possibly the Virginia schools for the same reason. But outside of market additions not a lot of football value. Clemson would be break even for the SEC, and hard to justify for the Big 10, especially in a vacuum.

Here are the reasons for value:

Notre Dame: a massive national reach and a valuation of .928 billion for all sports. Only Oklahoma and Texas were worth more unless you raid the SEC or Big 10.

Florida State: Puts the Big 10 in a market of 22 million with 37% of the state's college sports viewers. They give the SEC 77% of the state's college sports viewers. Miami brings about 19% on a solid year. UCF and USF get a lot of viewers too, but because they attract fan interest in the state of those whose primary fandom is reserved for other schools, but that is growing naturally with large numbers of alumni, particularly at UCF.

North Carolina: Basketball blueblood and the school which carries the majority of interest in a state of 11 million plus.

Virginia Tech / Virginia: Largest draws in a state of nearly 10 million.

4. Why would ESPN go for this. It's a huge get. They don't lose FSU if they are in the SEC but the make more from them. They pick up Notre Dame which makes them a lot more from the ACC as it draws national interest better than anyone else. ESPN picks up full rights to Kansas completing a sweep of the Big 12 royalty. Their total investment isn't that much compared to the what they get.

5. What does the SEC get? Advertising leverage in Florida, and a rival fitting of Kentucky which augments a weak area in the SEC sports offering. And the SEC gets the security of know that they don't need to take multiple teams to keep the Big 10 out of the ACC until 2036.

6. What does the ACC get? A decent boost in revenue and what they always want, security for the old core. Clemson, Virginia, Duke, UNC, N.C. State, Wake Forest, and Georgia Tech all get to stay together and compete at a level of investment they are comfortable with. Compared to being raided by the Big 10 and SEC this is far more preferable to most of those institutions. The cost? Notre Dame's prominence. A small price to pay since the Irish would only control about 7 votes if they controlled BC, Pitt, and Syracuse by having a common mission and approach to athletics, and likely from Stanford and California for the same reason. And the academics added to the ACC enhance the whole process. And ACC people claim to cherish those academic advantages.

So, sport I fail to see the downside and consider the weakest part as being the Irish's willingness to join in full even if the conference is built to be their ideal mate.

The SEC won't complain. ESPN won't complain. The Big 10 would complain and the Big 12 wouldn't really be impacted.

(10-26-2023 10:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-26-2023 10:10 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 01:52 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 12:17 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 06:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Currently the SEC stands at 16, The Big 10 at 18, The ACC at 17 plus 1, and the Big 12 at 16 after Oklahoma and Texas leave.

If ESPN was willing to let Florida State go for just the Exit fee of 120 million provided that move cost ESPN no inventory or rights loss in that the move would be to the SEC, and the SEC added Kansas as their traveling companion then Sankey will have reunited 2 old rivals, taken the current wins leader in college basketball and a hoops blueblood, and added a top 15 value for football. At 18 the SEC would not only be tight and competitive, but profitable, and more manageable, and more profitable than it could be at 20 or 24.

Who would the ACC add to get back to strength? Perhaps Tulane. Odd choice right? Notre Dame likes games which give them a great deal of exposure in New England, recruit heavy states like Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas, and in California. Address all of those in one conference and you've done the practically impossible. Well if the ACC lost Florida State and replaced them with Tulane they will have done just that. They would be at 14 full members counting Tulane. Then you add California, Stanford, and S.M.U. to take the conference to 17 full members plus Notre Dame.

That conference would be ideal for a Notre Dame home in a breakaway upper tier where conference finish could well be tied to the CFP. Notre Dame becomes the 18.

Without the potential of the Irish to cover any further additions the Big 10 is likely done at 18.

If the Irish join the new ACC in full they have a fast track to the CFP, the academic and athletic peers they have long wanted, a presence everywhere they would like one, and by joining in full they bring up their, and everyone else's, revenue. It still wouldn't catch the SEC and Big 10 but with a market enhanced ACCN and Notre Dame's national draw they could double the T3 money easily and everyone might still get a 7 to 10 million dollar bump to close in on 50 million plus CFP money and bowl money and tourney credits.

The SEC would rest without the fear that the Big 10 may try to encroach their territory. The ACC would no longer have to contend with a very unhappy FSU. Clemson would have a bit easier time recovering from coaching staff graduations, and suddenly many schools would be in greater competition for annual success. And most importantly ESPN will not have lost markets or brands and will have augmented them.

What would Yormark do? He's already looking at Gonzaga to fill a hoops niche. Perhaps he also looks again at Connecticut. Oregon State and Washington State still add more than additional G5 brands could. They are at 16 in the Big 12 after OU and UT depart and the 4 corners settle in. They could add Oregon State and Washington State if the ACC doesn't decide to go in that direction to take them to 18, picking up UConn to replace a departing Kansas keeps them there. Then add Gonzaga for all but football and perhaps look at doing the same with other non-football playing Big East teams.

The resulting mix could be quite potent in ensuring a P4 upper tier to exclusively furnish the CFP and potentially a new hoops tournament.

ESPN could afford to move FSU and pay them SEC pro rata. And to do the same for Kansas brings the total cost to 75 million for both. A sum easily made up with enhanced content value by having both of those playing stronger brands on a regular basis.

Bringing in Tulane would be nothing for ESPN to accomplish for the ACC, and if Notre Dame goes all in it is well worth the move. Due to the skewed geography however this 18 school ACC would need to remain division-less, while the SEC could return to 3 divisions of 6 if it wished and help with travel by organizing the divisions geographically.

Anyway, it is a minimalist's way around the final moves and the locking in of conferences for a new P4 and upper tier of 72 schools, roughly half of the FBS.

This approach has the fewest moving parts, the smallest increases in overhead, and the greatest upside of any we have discussed and is very possible.

Feel free to discuss it. It might be your future.

Moving Florida State has little upside benefit and carries lots of risk. What would create value for the ACC and ESPN are more meaningful games against Notre Dame. Especially games like Notre Dame versus a resurgent FSU. If Notre Dame has any interest in joining a conference for football, then having FSU in the ACC is essential to fully leveraging the potential value. I don't see how switching FSU for Tulane helps Notre Dame, nor ESPN, nor the ACC.

The SEC also has a simpler path to joining the B1G and ACC at 18 members, add Kansas and Colorado. A regional split would be natural:
East: UF, UGA, USC, UTK, Vanderbilt and UK
Gulf: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, MSU, LSU and Arkansas
West: UTx, TAMU, OU, Mizzou, KU and Colorado

FSU has stated outright that they aren't happy with the ACC, and that they are willing to consider the B1G as an option.
Something else that would create more interest for Notre Dame is Miami (FL) returning to form as well as Georgia Tech, IMO. Tulane would still be a positive because New Orleans has a heavy Catholic presence and it's been that way for several years. New Orleans is very different from the rest of the South in that respect, IMO.

Completely understand that FSU is unhappy in the ACC. That is a given.

In the hypothetical scenario above, the environment changes. Specifically, 1) Notre Dame now wants to join the ACC full-time in football, and 2) ESPN is subsequently willing to pay ACC substantially more money as an 18-team conference.

I’m not arguing whether this new environment changes FSU’s happiness with the ACC. My point is that ESPN and Notre Dame are the only parties with leverage in this new scenario.

ESPN wants to maximize profits. Yet in this hypothetical they’re willing to forego proven ratings bonanzas (ND v FSU; Clemson v FSU; Miami v FSU; etc.) and the ACC’s historic top media brand? No, ESPN will use its new leverage to keep FSU in the ACC.

More importantly, Notre Dame now theoretically wants to join the ACC as a football member. Does trading FSU for Tulane strengthen ACC football and the conference? No.

Moving FSU now has to result from a win-win-win scenario.

1. Notre Dame is more valuable than FSU, and FSU will be more valuable to ESPN in the SEC, even if Notre Dame joins the ACC.

2. The kind of bump in revenue the ACC would receive is plenty for basketball first schools and for Notre Dame which makes money in a lot of other ways. It gives the Irish what they would like, games against foes their fans and AD want to see them play, and all in one conference. Now like every other school in the nation what they decide to do with a couple of OOC games gives them variety, and the new ACC a platform from which they can reach the CFP frequently.

3. Really outside of Florida State and Notre Dame there aren't many schools that add value to the SEC unless ESPN wants to pay them pro rata. Without Notre Dame and Florida State there's not much there for the Big 10 outside of North Carolina which either Conference would still want for the market, and possibly the Virginia schools for the same reason. But outside of market additions not a lot of football value. Clemson would be break even for the SEC, and hard to justify for the Big 10, especially in a vacuum.

Here are the reasons for value:

Notre Dame: a massive national reach and a valuation of .928 billion for all sports. Only Oklahoma and Texas were worth more unless you raid the SEC or Big 10.

Florida State: Puts the Big 10 in a market of 22 million with 37% of the state's college sports viewers. They give the SEC 77% of the state's college sports viewers. Miami brings about 19% on a solid year. UCF and USF get a lot of viewers too, but because they attract fan interest in the state of those whose primary fandom is reserved for other schools, but that is growing naturally with large numbers of alumni, particularly at UCF.

North Carolina: Basketball blueblood and the school which carries the majority of interest in a state of 11 million plus.

Virginia Tech / Virginia: Largest draws in a state of nearly 10 million.

4. Why would ESPN go for this. It's a huge get. They don't lose FSU if they are in the SEC but the make more from them. They pick up Notre Dame which makes them a lot more from the ACC as it draws national interest better than anyone else. ESPN picks up full rights to Kansas completing a sweep of the Big 12 royalty. Their total investment isn't that much compared to the what they get.

5. What does the SEC get? Advertising leverage in Florida, and a rival fitting of Kentucky which augments a weak area in the SEC sports offering. And the SEC gets the security of know that they don't need to take multiple teams to keep the Big 10 out of the ACC until 2036.

6. What does the ACC get? A decent boost in revenue and what they always want, security for the old core. Clemson, Virginia, Duke, UNC, N.C. State, Wake Forest, and Georgia Tech all get to stay together and compete at a level of investment they are comfortable with. Compared to being raided by the Big 10 and SEC this is far more preferable to most of those institutions. The cost? Notre Dame's prominence. A small price to pay since the Irish would only control about 7 votes if they controlled BC, Pitt, and Syracuse by having a common mission and approach to athletics, and likely from Stanford and California for the same reason. And the academics added to the ACC enhance the whole process. And ACC people claim to cherish those academic advantages.

So, sport I fail to see the downside and consider the weakest part as being the Irish's willingness to join in full even if the conference is built to be their ideal mate.

The SEC won't complain. ESPN won't complain. The Big 10 would complain and the Big 12 wouldn't really be impacted.

Two aspects (ND joining in full and ESPN increasing payouts) of the theoretical are unquestionably positive for the ACC and its members. In addition, I completely agree that ND is more valuable than FSU.

My disagreement starts when you state that “FSU will be more valuable to ESPN in the SEC, even if Notre Dame joins the ACC.” ESPN creates value by aggregating football brands and having frequent marquee matchups. To better leverage Notre Dame, or FSU/Clemson/Miami, ESPN needs to keep these potential national football contenders together. ESPN isn’t offering incremental payouts to the basketball first schools…the value creation come from football content. Football adds value and ND v FSU will have much better ratings than ND v Tulane.

(10-27-2023 03:34 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-26-2023 10:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-26-2023 10:10 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 01:52 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 12:17 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Moving Florida State has little upside benefit and carries lots of risk. What would create value for the ACC and ESPN are more meaningful games against Notre Dame. Especially games like Notre Dame versus a resurgent FSU. If Notre Dame has any interest in joining a conference for football, then having FSU in the ACC is essential to fully leveraging the potential value. I don't see how switching FSU for Tulane helps Notre Dame, nor ESPN, nor the ACC.

The SEC also has a simpler path to joining the B1G and ACC at 18 members, add Kansas and Colorado. A regional split would be natural:
East: UF, UGA, USC, UTK, Vanderbilt and UK
Gulf: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, MSU, LSU and Arkansas
West: UTx, TAMU, OU, Mizzou, KU and Colorado

FSU has stated outright that they aren't happy with the ACC, and that they are willing to consider the B1G as an option.
Something else that would create more interest for Notre Dame is Miami (FL) returning to form as well as Georgia Tech, IMO. Tulane would still be a positive because New Orleans has a heavy Catholic presence and it's been that way for several years. New Orleans is very different from the rest of the South in that respect, IMO.

Completely understand that FSU is unhappy in the ACC. That is a given.

In the hypothetical scenario above, the environment changes. Specifically, 1) Notre Dame now wants to join the ACC full-time in football, and 2) ESPN is subsequently willing to pay ACC substantially more money as an 18-team conference.

I’m not arguing whether this new environment changes FSU’s happiness with the ACC. My point is that ESPN and Notre Dame are the only parties with leverage in this new scenario.

ESPN wants to maximize profits. Yet in this hypothetical they’re willing to forego proven ratings bonanzas (ND v FSU; Clemson v FSU; Miami v FSU; etc.) and the ACC’s historic top media brand? No, ESPN will use its new leverage to keep FSU in the ACC.

More importantly, Notre Dame now theoretically wants to join the ACC as a football member. Does trading FSU for Tulane strengthen ACC football and the conference? No.

Moving FSU now has to result from a win-win-win scenario.

1. Notre Dame is more valuable than FSU, and FSU will be more valuable to ESPN in the SEC, even if Notre Dame joins the ACC.

2. The kind of bump in revenue the ACC would receive is plenty for basketball first schools and for Notre Dame which makes money in a lot of other ways. It gives the Irish what they would like, games against foes their fans and AD want to see them play, and all in one conference. Now like every other school in the nation what they decide to do with a couple of OOC games gives them variety, and the new ACC a platform from which they can reach the CFP frequently.

3. Really outside of Florida State and Notre Dame there aren't many schools that add value to the SEC unless ESPN wants to pay them pro rata. Without Notre Dame and Florida State there's not much there for the Big 10 outside of North Carolina which either Conference would still want for the market, and possibly the Virginia schools for the same reason. But outside of market additions not a lot of football value. Clemson would be break even for the SEC, and hard to justify for the Big 10, especially in a vacuum.

Here are the reasons for value:

Notre Dame: a massive national reach and a valuation of .928 billion for all sports. Only Oklahoma and Texas were worth more unless you raid the SEC or Big 10.

Florida State: Puts the Big 10 in a market of 22 million with 37% of the state's college sports viewers. They give the SEC 77% of the state's college sports viewers. Miami brings about 19% on a solid year. UCF and USF get a lot of viewers too, but because they attract fan interest in the state of those whose primary fandom is reserved for other schools, but that is growing naturally with large numbers of alumni, particularly at UCF.

North Carolina: Basketball blueblood and the school which carries the majority of interest in a state of 11 million plus.

Virginia Tech / Virginia: Largest draws in a state of nearly 10 million.

4. Why would ESPN go for this. It's a huge get. They don't lose FSU if they are in the SEC but the make more from them. They pick up Notre Dame which makes them a lot more from the ACC as it draws national interest better than anyone else. ESPN picks up full rights to Kansas completing a sweep of the Big 12 royalty. Their total investment isn't that much compared to the what they get.

5. What does the SEC get? Advertising leverage in Florida, and a rival fitting of Kentucky which augments a weak area in the SEC sports offering. And the SEC gets the security of know that they don't need to take multiple teams to keep the Big 10 out of the ACC until 2036.

6. What does the ACC get? A decent boost in revenue and what they always want, security for the old core. Clemson, Virginia, Duke, UNC, N.C. State, Wake Forest, and Georgia Tech all get to stay together and compete at a level of investment they are comfortable with. Compared to being raided by the Big 10 and SEC this is far more preferable to most of those institutions. The cost? Notre Dame's prominence. A small price to pay since the Irish would only control about 7 votes if they controlled BC, Pitt, and Syracuse by having a common mission and approach to athletics, and likely from Stanford and California for the same reason. And the academics added to the ACC enhance the whole process. And ACC people claim to cherish those academic advantages.

So, sport I fail to see the downside and consider the weakest part as being the Irish's willingness to join in full even if the conference is built to be their ideal mate.

The SEC won't complain. ESPN won't complain. The Big 10 would complain and the Big 12 wouldn't really be impacted.

Two aspects (ND joining in full and ESPN increasing payouts) of the theoretical are unquestionably positive for the ACC and its members. In addition, I completely agree that ND is more valuable than FSU.

My disagreement starts when you state that “FSU will be more valuable to ESPN in the SEC, even if Notre Dame joins the ACC.” ESPN creates value by aggregating football brands and having frequent marquee matchups. To better leverage Notre Dame, or FSU/Clemson/Miami, ESPN needs to keep these potential national football contenders together. ESPN isn’t offering incremental payouts to the basketball first schools…the value creation come from football content. Football adds value and ND v FSU will have much better ratings than ND v Tulane.

FSU earns ESPN about 10 million more for a T1 game in the SEC than in the ACC and that is just a fact. FSU has two games most seasons that are solid T1 material from the ACC, Clemson and Notre Dame who they don't play that often. If Miami is on the upswing that would be another. This year in the first half of the season a game with UNC or Duke would have worked, but those over the time FSU has been in the ACC have been few. In the SEC they would generate 5 or 6 T1 games per season and there's your difference.

Therefore, if FSU is manifestly unhappy with the situation, would remain under ESPN control in the SEC and ESPN can earn even 40 million more from them in the SEC, it's workable. Furthermore, if Notre Dame can be lured to join in full they stabilize the remaining ACC and ESPN loses no school, gains Notre Dame and Kansas under full, or fuller access, and it's win for ESPN, a win for the SEC, and a NET win for the ACC. That is how deals get worked out.

If something like that doesn't happen there is no ACC by 2034, at least not one resembling what you have now.

If only Florida St left the ACC, the ACC would be at 16/17. You add South Florida and call it a day. That brings them back to where they were at numbers and with Florida representation.

In the OP, Kansas joins Florida St in the SEC as #17 and #18. The XII is reduced to 15. I think the XII does one of the following:
a) Returns to 16 - adds only Memphis, San Diego St, or Tulane.
b) Goes to 18 - adds Memphis, San Diego St, and Tulane.
c) Goes to 18 - adds Oregon St, San Diego St, and Washington St.
d) Goes to 20 - adds Memphis, Oregon St, San Diego St, Tulane, and Washington St.

If the ACC loses only FSU, why not just stay at 16 for FB, 17 OS. Unless an add increases their average media revenue, what's the point?