Temple's football and basketball programs have fallen off the cliff. According to Mike Jensen, Philly Inquiry sports reporter, the school's NIL program is severly underfunded. But that's the least of the school's problems. It's administrative issues were disclosed in the article linked below.

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/10/2...k-englert/

I hope Temple turns it around quicky. But there are powers at play (Lurie, city, local residents, etc.) beyond the school's control. The school should've relocated to either NE Philly or the suburbs back in the 1950s.

(10-24-2023 10:35 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  The school should've relocated to either NE Philly or the suburbs back in the 1950s.

The number of major universities which have relocated in the past 75 years can be counted on one hand: Wake Forest, St. John's, Pepperdine, Samford...anyone else?

(10-24-2023 12:22 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 10:35 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  The school should've relocated to either NE Philly or the suburbs back in the 1950s.

The number of major universities which have relocated in the past 75 years can be counted on one hand: Wake Forest, St. John's, Pepperdine, Samford...anyone else?

Not sure about 75 years, but Manhattan moved from (you guessed it) Manhattan to the "suburbs" of the Bronx.

NYU had a campus in the Bronx where they played sports. They sold it and maintained the Manhattan campus.

(10-24-2023 12:22 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 10:35 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  The school should've relocated to either NE Philly or the suburbs back in the 1950s.

The number of major universities which have relocated in the past 75 years can be counted on one hand: Wake Forest, St. John's, Pepperdine, Samford...anyone else?

Temple became a state-related university in 1965. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the school's enrollment in the 1950s was similar to the enrollment at the schools you mentioned.

(10-23-2023 11:01 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  A lot of college football facilities are used six times a year and little else--maybe lacrosse, maybe track and field, maybe commencement, but that's about it. This is why the cost of ownership in a modern stadium is so steep.

Did anyone ever consider teaming up with the Philadelphia Union on a stadium?

(10-25-2023 08:13 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(10-23-2023 11:01 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  A lot of college football facilities are used six times a year and little else--maybe lacrosse, maybe track and field, maybe commencement, but that's about it. This is why the cost of ownership in a modern stadium is so steep.

Did anyone ever consider teaming up with the Philadelphia Union on a stadium?

Villanova considered it as part of a possible FBS move-up to the old Big East. It didn't happen. The Union's stadium is pretty nice, but it's in a kinda weird location.

(10-24-2023 12:31 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 12:22 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 10:35 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  The school should've relocated to either NE Philly or the suburbs back in the 1950s.

The number of major universities which have relocated in the past 75 years can be counted on one hand: Wake Forest, St. John's, Pepperdine, Samford...anyone else?

Not sure about 75 years, but Manhattan moved from (you guessed it) Manhattan to the "suburbs" of the Bronx.

NYU had a campus in the Bronx where they played sports. They sold it and maintained the Manhattan campus.

Buffalo (while the Main Street campus is still used, 80-85 percent of the academics and the entire athletic program is at the Amherst campus, in suburban Buffalo off of I-290

(10-25-2023 08:54 AM)JonP Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 08:13 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(10-23-2023 11:01 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  A lot of college football facilities are used six times a year and little else--maybe lacrosse, maybe track and field, maybe commencement, but that's about it. This is why the cost of ownership in a modern stadium is so steep.

Did anyone ever consider teaming up with the Philadelphia Union on a stadium?

Villanova considered it as part of a possible FBS move-up to the old Big East. It didn't happen. The Union's stadium is pretty nice, but it's in a kinda weird location.

Looks like a picturesque location:

(10-24-2023 12:22 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 10:35 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  The school should've relocated to either NE Philly or the suburbs back in the 1950s.

The number of major universities which have relocated in the past 75 years can be counted on one hand: Wake Forest, St. John's, Pepperdine, Samford...anyone else?

Define major, but St Francis Brooklyn moved. But they effectively are just a building or two in NYC, so it's a bit different than a more traditional university moving their campus.

(10-25-2023 10:40 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 08:54 AM)JonP Wrote:  Villanova considered it as part of a possible FBS move-up to the old Big East. It didn't happen. The Union's stadium is pretty nice, but it's in a kinda weird location.

Looks like a picturesque location:

That's a great view! Looks super cool on TV. And inside the stadium, it's nice.

But here's another view right outside the gate.

I don't have a bad thing to say about the stadium. But it's also sandwiched between an incinerator and a chemical plant in an industrial part of one of Pennsylvania's poorest cities. I don't think I am being outlandish in calling it a weird location.

(10-25-2023 10:28 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 12:31 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 12:22 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 10:35 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  The school should've relocated to either NE Philly or the suburbs back in the 1950s.

The number of major universities which have relocated in the past 75 years can be counted on one hand: Wake Forest, St. John's, Pepperdine, Samford...anyone else?

Not sure about 75 years, but Manhattan moved from (you guessed it) Manhattan to the "suburbs" of the Bronx.

NYU had a campus in the Bronx where they played sports. They sold it and maintained the Manhattan campus.

Buffalo (while the Main Street campus is still used, 80-85 percent of the academics and the entire athletic program is at the Amherst campus, in suburban Buffalo off of I-290

During the 1960s, the Rochester Institute of Technology vacated the city for the neighboring suburb of Henrietta to make room for a downtown interstate highway project.

(10-25-2023 02:29 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 10:28 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 12:31 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 12:22 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 10:35 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  The school should've relocated to either NE Philly or the suburbs back in the 1950s.

The number of major universities which have relocated in the past 75 years can be counted on one hand: Wake Forest, St. John's, Pepperdine, Samford...anyone else?

Not sure about 75 years, but Manhattan moved from (you guessed it) Manhattan to the "suburbs" of the Bronx.

NYU had a campus in the Bronx where they played sports. They sold it and maintained the Manhattan campus.

Buffalo (while the Main Street campus is still used, 80-85 percent of the academics and the entire athletic program is at the Amherst campus, in suburban Buffalo off of I-290

During the 1960s, the Rochester Institute of Technology vacated the city for the neighboring suburb of Henrietta to make room for a downtown interstate highway project.

Ithaca College did something similar, consolidating its various programs spread across downtown Ithaca to its current campus on South Hill just outside the city.

Re: RIT: you can still see some of their former campus in Corn Hill including their first hockey rink.

(10-25-2023 11:26 AM)JonP Wrote:  ... That's a great view! Looks super cool on TV. And inside the stadium, it's nice.

But here's another view right outside the gate.

I don't have a bad thing to say about the stadium. But it's also sandwiched between an incinerator and a chemical plant in an industrial part of one of Pennsylvania's poorest cities. I don't think I am being outlandish in calling it a weird location.

Sounds like the Philadelphia Union had problems similar to the ones Temple has faced getting a site for a 15,000-20,000 range stadium in urban Philadelphia.

(10-23-2023 03:10 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  ... And let's be honest...very few people actually go to see Temple Football. If they could get a 15,000 seat on-campus stadium approved, it would make sense for Temple to drop to FCS, but that's not possible. ...

With the abandoning the "have to have enough seats in the stadium for sponsors to buy 15,000 empty seats" rule by the NCAA, they don't even have to have 15,000 seats to play FBS football, anymore. A 12,000 seat stadium with good facilities and seats with good sightlines in a good location might get more actual fans through the turnstiles than having them rattling around in a nearly empty NFL stadium.

But not having any place to put such a stadium even if they could find some rich alumni willing to fund it .. that's kind of a big hurdle to clear.

Ambler would be a non-starter for more reasons than I can count. The soccer team used to play there, and it was a big deal when they got the soccer facility built on campus and got them out of Ambler.

Ambler is a beautiful campus. I had to go a few times for one off lectures when I was at Temple. It's in a dense suburb, but going into the campus felt so secluded. That whole part of Montco is great. But I'm not even sure what still goes on up there - it seemed like things were trending towards getting rid of the campus all together. I think I came in right at the end of Ambler really still being a big part of the university. A small number of students still lived there at the time, and I rememeber the busses constantly coming and going from Main Campus packed with students.

But sports never worked out up there, and no, even if the township would be open to it, no one would go and traffic would be unbearable.

The suggestion that Temple itself should've moved is laughable. The campus and its connection to the city is the school's greatest asset. And also no, Temple would not start renting the new Sixers stadium when they have a 10,000 seat stadium on campus that they own. Why would they do that?

Some odd takes in here.

(10-26-2023 12:21 AM)thecoffeecake Wrote:  Some odd takes in here.

People who don't know Temple ... or Philly.

I have always felt bad for Temple regarding football because there really is no perfect solution. I think the Linc is just the least bad option.

(10-26-2023 08:27 AM)JonP Wrote:  I have always felt bad for Temple regarding football because there really is no perfect solution. I think the Linc is just the least bad option.

I agree. It’s a school with a very interesting enrollment profile and alumni base. Playing at the Linc when you won’t likely see it filled for games is one thing, but the Linc’s location for urban and suburban students, alumni, and fans is about as good as it gets for a city school playing FBS-level.

FWIW about a hypothetical Ambler stadium, assuming you get it by the NIMBY community, I don’t know if it draws. Regional rail can get you from Philly to Ambler, but the campus isn’t station-adjacent. It’s not the smoothest trip from campus, then, even if the school commissioned shuttle service. Location is…challenging. PA-309 is Turnpike accessible (at Ambler/Fort Washington), but it’s those local roads that can get rough. The infrastructure can’t really handle the load, but I do believe you’re in an area more receptive to football locally than, say, Villanova and its location.

(10-25-2023 02:29 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(10-25-2023 10:28 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 12:31 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 12:22 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 10:35 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  The school should've relocated to either NE Philly or the suburbs back in the 1950s.

The number of major universities which have relocated in the past 75 years can be counted on one hand: Wake Forest, St. John's, Pepperdine, Samford...anyone else?

Not sure about 75 years, but Manhattan moved from (you guessed it) Manhattan to the "suburbs" of the Bronx.

NYU had a campus in the Bronx where they played sports. They sold it and maintained the Manhattan campus.

Buffalo (while the Main Street campus is still used, 80-85 percent of the academics and the entire athletic program is at the Amherst campus, in suburban Buffalo off of I-290

During the 1960s, the Rochester Institute of Technology vacated the city for the neighboring suburb of Henrietta to make room for a downtown interstate highway project.

Awesome campus if you like rectangles

(10-29-2023 07:44 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-26-2023 08:27 AM)JonP Wrote:  I have always felt bad for Temple regarding football because there really is no perfect solution. I think the Linc is just the least bad option.

I agree. It’s a school with a very interesting enrollment profile and alumni base. Playing at the Linc when you won’t likely see it filled for games is one thing, but the Linc’s location for urban and suburban students, alumni, and fans is about as good as it gets for a city school playing FBS-level.

FWIW about a hypothetical Ambler stadium, assuming you get it by the NIMBY community, I don’t know if it draws. Regional rail can get you from Philly to Ambler, but the campus isn’t station-adjacent. It’s not the smoothest trip from campus, then, even if the school commissioned shuttle service. Location is…challenging. PA-309 is Turnpike accessible (at Ambler/Fort Washington), but it’s those local roads that can get rough. The infrastructure can’t really handle the load, but I do believe you’re in an area more receptive to football locally than, say, Villanova and its location.

I busted out a map, and yeah, the Linc is not a bad off-campus location at all. Maybe 20 minutes? Looks like Subaru Park is about double that.

(10-24-2023 10:35 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Temple's football and basketball programs have fallen off the cliff. According to Mike Jensen, Philly Inquiry sports reporter, the school's NIL program is severly underfunded. But that's the least of the school's problems. It's administrative issues were disclosed in the article linked below.

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/10/2...k-englert/

I hope Temple turns it around quicky. But there are powers at play (Lurie, city, local residents, etc.) beyond the school's control. The school should've relocated to either NE Philly or the suburbs back in the 1950s.

Temple considered leaving North Philly repeatedly from the 1930s - 1960s. The closest Temple came to leaving was in the late 1940s. They made multiple offers to buy a large tract of land on the Cheltenham side of the city boundary opposite Temple Stadium. It was occupied by Cedarbrook Country Club at the time. In response the city seized most of the land on which main campus sits and gave it to Temple in the early 1950s to keep Temple in the city. Temple’s last serious flirtation with moving was in the mid 1960s when the Morgan Estate went up for sale. The estate occupied a large portion of southeastern Chestnut Hill.

The city is better off having Temple in North Philly. And being in North Philly is consistent with Temple’s historical mission. But the location presents many challenges and Temple unlike Penn doesn’t have the money to force the low income residents out of the surrounding neighborhood.

(10-29-2023 01:54 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 10:35 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Temple's football and basketball programs have fallen off the cliff. According to Mike Jensen, Philly Inquiry sports reporter, the school's NIL program is severly underfunded. But that's the least of the school's problems. It's administrative issues were disclosed in the article linked below.

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/10/2...k-englert/

I hope Temple turns it around quicky. But there are powers at play (Lurie, city, local residents, etc.) beyond the school's control. The school should've relocated to either NE Philly or the suburbs back in the 1950s.

Temple considered leaving North Philly repeatedly from the 1930s - 1960s. The closest Temple came to leaving was in the late 1940s. They made multiple offers to buy a large tract of land on the Cheltenham side of the city boundary opposite Temple Stadium. It was occupied by Cedarbrook Country Club at the time. In response the city seized most of the land on which main campus sits and gave it to Temple in the early 1950s to keep Temple in the city. Temple’s last serious flirtation with moving was in the mid 1960s when the Morgan Estate went up for sale. The estate occupied a large portion of southeastern Chestnut Hill.

The city is better off having Temple in North Philly. And being in North Philly is consistent with Temple’s historical mission. But the location presents many challenges and Temple unlike Penn doesn’t have the money to force the low income residents out of the surrounding neighborhood.

I read about the lost opportunity to purchase the country club and also read that Temple once operated a 2-year community college at the Temple Stadium site. I think it would've been a win-win deal for Temple to have it's main campus located in a suburban-like setting while still operating its professional schools on Broad Street. That would've been a worthy compromise for the city, school and North Philly residents.