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We are trying to Japanify China
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: We are trying to Japanify China
Bottom line is that we don’t have a clue WTF to do. We bribed up an alliance to fight a Cold War with the Soviet Union militarily, until Reagan put pressure on their economy and collapsed the Evil Empire. But when the Berlin Wall fell we had nary a clue what to do next, and still don’t today.

We are now in Cold War II only this time the primary opponent is China and it looks like this one is going to be fought economically. While we have buried our heads militarily in the Mideast, China has been bribing up alliances economically all over the map.

We need to figure out what we have to do, and do it.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2023 04:44 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
08-25-2023 04:44 PM
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miko33 Away
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Post: #22
RE: We are trying to Japanify China
(08-25-2023 04:08 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(08-25-2023 12:11 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-25-2023 05:53 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-25-2023 12:13 AM)Todor Wrote:  The accusations levelled at Japan included the familiar-sounding “unfair trade practices” and “theft of intellectual property.”

The "theft of intellectual property" accusations are very valid against China. It is truly amazing how many USA high-tech companies expose their IP to theft by working in China.

The "unfair trade practices" are largely self-inflicted by the USA. We could fix that one against the whole world, but so far have shown no indication to do so.

Todor isn't a serious participant on the forum and most likely is a sock puppet of one of the regulars here. He and andybible are sock puppets of the same guy most likely. Pretty sure I know who.

Keep sniffing it out Nancy Drew. But you’re way off base chump. Maybe you and the other Hardly Boys can call in for Buford T Justice and Junior. I think your detective crew needs a little more brain power because you don’t know what you’re talking about at all. Not even a little. Stay in your lane and give up your guessing games. Talk about the article content, or stifle it.

A bunch of people swear I’m in Russia working a Putins secret lab to destroy the internet world, some think I’m anti American because I call our f’d up foreign policy out for what it is, now people thing I’m an actually another poster entirely. You can sit and bicker about your partisanship all you want but I’m still more concerned with US foreign policy and it’s blundering failures that cost a fortune, often backfire,’are disjointed and chaotic, swings wildly from one goal to the next, and often leave people worse than we found them and hating us to boot. Sorry that nobody likes that topic, but it’s legit and it’s a problem. An expensive problem.

Meanwhile, despite the continued efforts to lead the thread off topic. A vast majority of people say we need to curtail China’s economic growth, that it would be good strategy, and good for America.

When I post an article that shows exactly how we are indeed doing that, you call it anti-America. Figure out what you believe before you get the sniffles because an article didn’t stroke the US ego enough even though the jist of it is something you support.

Just following the yellow BRIC road, Todo…
08-25-2023 04:57 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #23
RE: We are trying to Japanify China
(08-25-2023 04:44 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Bottom line is that we don’t have a clue WTF to do. We bribed up an alliance to fight a Cold War with the Soviet Union militarily, until Reagan put pressure on their economy and collapsed the Evil Empire. But when the Berlin Wall fell we had nary a clue what to do next, and still don’t today.

We are now in Cold War II only this time the primary opponent is China and it looks like this one is going to be fought economically. While we have buried our heads militarily in the Mideast, China has been bribing up alliances economically all over the map.

We need to figure out what we have to do, and do it.

This is where I depart from the Peter Zeihen narrative these days. He was right until maybe 10 years ago---those alliances and their US carrying costs no longer made sense. But now---theres a new Cold War---so his base theory that the old Cold War Alliance is superfluous and unnecessary doesnt really match the facts on the ground. One might argue the OLD alliance doesnt fit---but the idea we no longer really need alliances seems to no longer fit the facts on the ground.

He's right that we still need to have a debate---because if we only care about the western hemisphere---we can still arguably be just fine going to a quasi-isolationist policy where we stick to just issues in the western hemisphere and we let the other regions of the world figure it out for themselves. If we are going to do that, we need to get our oil production and chip industry geared up and prodiuing everything we need before we back away from the Pacific and Middle East.

Or---we hold onto the old alliances---and perhaps add Pacific nations to NATO. Perhaps our Pacific alliances are an independent free standing alliance---sort of like AUKUS or the Quad (Australia, US, India, Japan). NATO---plus some sort of Pacific alliance with Britain, Australia, Japan, S Korea, Vietnam, and the Philippines (maybe India too) seems like a good start for help in enforcing the status quo on the rules based order in the Atlantic and Pacific---but we would have to demand that the allies begin carrying more of the weight when it comes to the enforcement load. I think we are better off in the long run doing something like this---mainly because if there is trouble--its gets dealt with long before it reaches our hemisphere. One need only look at a few photos from Ukraine to see why this option is preferable to me. The key is getting the cost and risk down by getting our allies to do more of the work.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2023 05:34 PM by Attackcoog.)
08-25-2023 05:26 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: We are trying to Japanify China
(08-25-2023 05:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This is where I depart from the Peter Zeihen narrative these days. He was right until maybe 10 years ago---those alliances and their US carrying costs no longer made sense. But now---theres a new Cold War---so his base theory that the old Cold War Alliance is superfluous and unnecessary doesnt really match the facts on the ground. One might argue the OLD alliance doesnt fit---but the idea we no longer really need alliances seems to no longer fit the facts on the ground.

I am more inclined, as you seem to be, that bribing up a military alliance worked against the Soviets, so how about bribing up an economic alliance against China.

I have thought about a multi-step approach:
1) Bring UK into NAFTA/USMCA to give them a shot in the arm after Brexit. As an aside, the really interesting thing would be the effect on Ireland. With Eire/Northern Ireland being the only land border between the EU and NAFTA/USMCA, I could see a huge logistics channel running through there and bringing tons of prosperity.
2) Continue to upgrade the Quad (Australia, India, Japan, USA) as an economic and military alliance and counter to China.
3) There is a CANZUK military and economic alliance (Canada, Australis, New Zealand, UK), propsed largely to counter China. Do whatever we can to help bring it about and develop some sort of cooperative alliance with it.
4) Expand to the British Commonwealth, possibly as some sort of associate member. If we have India, Malaysia, and Singapore in the fold, we can pretty much cut off China's westbound exports and inbound oil imports by closing down the Malacca and Sunda Straits, and that would pretty much crater their economy.
5) Expand through some sort of revised and improved TPA to bring in Indonesia, Philippines, Vietnam, South Korea--and possibly Taiwan.

Although this would be heavily an economic alliance, we would have to support this with a military commitment comparable to what we gave NATO, probably more Navy/Air Force oriented due to the geography of the region. We could also bring a lot of manufacturing out of China, essential stuff back home or at least to NAFTA, and other stuff as carrots to the alliance partners.

One objective would be to transfer some of our commitments to allies. India could certainly take over the Indian Ocean and make it a very uncomfortable for China, which has to operate there. Australia and Canada could help in the Pacific, particularly down south where China has to go to get west. And UK could cover some of Europe and the Med. There has been a proposal for a combine Commonwealth military (kind of like what the old British Empire had). Such a force would probably be the 4th strongest military in the world, and quite possibly the 2nd striongest navy in the world (a tad smaller than Russia and China, but more professional). We currently keep slightly over 100 ships deployed, many fulfiling commitments dating back to the time of a 600-ship navy. With a 290-ship navy, that is spending 1/3 of our time deployed, resulting in severe shortfalls in training and maintenance. With 600 ships, that average deployment time is 1/6, which is manageable from a training and maintenance standpoint. In order to get out of the current cycle toward less well trained sailors and less well maintained ships. So our solution is some combination of a) get rid of some commitments, 2) transfer some commitments to allies, and 3) build the USN back up to the 500-600 ship level.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2023 06:30 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
08-25-2023 06:05 PM
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BlueDragon Away
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Post: #25
RE: We are trying to Japanify China
(08-25-2023 01:19 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Since you're not going to site your source, I'll do it for you.

Russia Today

Truly Shocking

The Russian propaganda troll strikes again
08-25-2023 07:39 PM
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BlueDragon Away
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Post: #26
RE: We are trying to Japanify China
(08-25-2023 03:09 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  
(08-25-2023 02:42 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(08-25-2023 01:19 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Since you're not going to site your source, I'll do it for you.

Russia Today

I follow this writer directly on Telegram (that’s an app FYI) I know he has been published on RT, and dozens of other publications. I don’t SITE much from Telegram because not enough Americans use it to be relevant. And I know with the average curiosity and ambition many Americans have, few would be capable of downloading it or creating an account to read one article. Hell, none of my trolls read the articles I post anyway, but that doesn’t stop them. And while a few like you pop up once in a while, I get the sense that the others average about 90 years from their cliche and trite 1950’s middle class perception of the world. I don’t want them to stroke out trying to figure out a new app. And stress is SITED as a major cause of those types of issues.

But your response gave me some good inSITE. You didn’t SITE any issues with the article content, yet still want to be contentious. Did you not read it? Is there something wrong with your SITE? By that, I meant your eyeSITE, not the webSITE. Perhaps you can go down to the Rexall after Wheel of Fortune and pick yourself up some.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/cite-vs-site-vs-sight/
(I am often accused of being too subtle and not saying what I really mean, so perhaps this will be of some value to you.

https://lowincomerelief.com/how-to-get-a-ged/

Thanks for being the first illiterate moron to respond to me today. By this time, I usually have several already.

Thanks for the "How to get a GED" link. Don't think I'll need it since I've already earned my Master's in Civil Engineering. So suck a dick, Igor. Fortunately for me, my job designing infrastructure doesn't require perfect grammar.

Didn't feel the need to comment on Russian state owned propaganda, other than I thought that you posting it here without a link was a bit disingenuous.

Masters degree huh? And still swallow the propaganda of progressives?

Fine line between genius and insanity I’ve heard.
08-25-2023 07:56 PM
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BlueDragon Away
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Post: #27
RE: We are trying to Japanify China
Just for you Toad or

1 Japan is too small to match the US GDP can’t happen when you don’t have the population otherwise they would truly be an Economic Powerhouse

2. Chinese exports are just sub par low quality and that is nationwide

You can’t build an economy EVEN WITH SLAVE LABOR when your brain trust is light years behind others

Chinese Auto Industry?

Chinese Aviation industry?

Chinese Energy Industry?

Chinese investment Banking Industry?

Another thing that cripples the Chinese Economy is they are protectionists with a socialist government that leans militarily these days.

Sorry Socialists are clueless about Free Enterprise and Capitalism

Things you must have to be an economic superpower

So, in conclusion get your house in order first before you lay blame at others feet



Finally as far as their military goes they are one huge misstep from having Japan all over them again. History has a funny way of repeating itself wouldn’t you agree?
08-25-2023 08:10 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #28
RE: We are trying to Japanify China
(08-25-2023 11:13 AM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  You should look at Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution. You think the US can get China to agree to that?

Since we wrote it, I doubt it.
08-25-2023 09:06 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #29
RE: We are trying to Japanify China
(08-25-2023 09:06 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(08-25-2023 11:13 AM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  You should look at Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution. You think the US can get China to agree to that?

Since we wrote it, I doubt it.

Well, if China refuses to abide by the Japanese constitution, we should probably start a big war over it (unless there is another go to move our genius leaders have secretly developed in the last 35 years). This just goes to show that China is aggressive, otherwise they would follow Japans constitution without us having to enforce the “rules based order” on them. 03-lmfao

Then we can move on and get the Russians to abide by the constitution of the Philippines and the world will be even safer for democracy. Well, that and Russia surrendering control of their central bank, foreign policy, elections, and military to foreigners.
08-25-2023 11:07 PM
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BlueDragon Away
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Post: #30
RE: We are trying to Japanify China
(08-25-2023 11:07 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(08-25-2023 09:06 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(08-25-2023 11:13 AM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  You should look at Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution. You think the US can get China to agree to that?

Since we wrote it, I doubt it.

Well, if China refuses to abide by the Japanese constitution, we should probably start a big war over it (unless there is another go to move our genius leaders have secretly developed in the last 35 years). This just goes to show that China is aggressive, otherwise they would follow Japans constitution without us having to enforce the “rules based order” on them. 03-lmfao

Then we can move on and get the Russians to abide by the constitution of the Philippines and the world will be even safer for democracy. Well, that and Russia surrendering control of their central bank, foreign policy, elections, and military to foreigners.

Todor, since your into all things Russian where can I get some Caucasian Shepherd puppies? Having Coyote problems and need some large dogs to eradicate them. Heard these dogs will take care of them and wolves as well. There are still some hybrid red wolves in the area but very few. They sonehow cross bred with coyotes.
08-26-2023 12:26 AM
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