(08-25-2023 07:15 AM)Hambone10 Wrote: Most of us are able to discern between the REAL issues being discussed.... the underlying issues... and the conspiracy theories.
What I've heard from Vivek often describes it perfectly... when asked questions like those being posed here... like 'is the government rounding up conservatives' or 'was the election stolen'... I've always heard him say (though he may not always say this) something along the lines of... Yes they are, and yes it was... but not in the 'conspiracy' sort of way that many people understand... but a more subtle means... and then he goes on to describe just that. The left of the government in concert with the media and some corporate partners goes about to suppress information under the cabal of 'stopping hate speech or misinformation'... when the solution to bad information is more good information.
Actually my 'obsession' with Trump has led me to believe from near the outset Russiagate was a made up issue. And that was borne out. And I gladly concede that individuals in the DOJ acted wholly inappropriately.
In impeachment 1 -- funny, I dont see the DOJ driving that at all. Maybe I missed something where the DOJ ran that process. That is used all the time as part of this conspiracy.
What it was, was an overt political effort to remove Trump -- a specified effort. Impeachment is *always* a pure political power play. No doubt.
In impeachment 2, it was misdirected. I thought it stupid because it was directed at an 'instigation' issue. I thought Trump was morally bankrupt for the instigation aspect, and also still think that Trump should not be charged with 'sedition' or anything like that. It was an utterly crappy move on his part to stir that up (which his speech did), but still protected speech and action.
Trump's utter inactivity during the riot I think reprehensible, and more worthy of the impeachment. But again, that activity being more aptly described as a dereliction of duty ---not coming to a criminal action.
And yes, I dont find it much of stretch to designate attempting to short circuit the electoral process a criminal action. Nor do I find it a stretch to designate the combination of improperly retaining classified documents, coupled with actions that can really only be aptly described as rank obstruction to the legal process, to be designated as criminal action. In distinction to the Russiagate issue, the facts are pretty deep in those two. How dare I designate only those two issues as criminal behavior. Must be my obsession to only note those two issues as him having culpability in.
Yep, that 'keeping the documents and simply bald faced lying to the Feds about them' is quite the conspiracy by the DOJ.
And yes, I do believe there should be criminal culpability in some of the actions that Trump led and/or performed to literally break the law in trying to short circuit the electoral count, and perhaps even in trying to short circuit specific state elections.
"Cmon Brad, all you have to do is find me 11,780 votes" along with "I mean, you are a Republican here" is not a rallying cry for me to jump into the 'Trump is being wrongfully targeted by an evil cabal'.
And to be fair, I think there are aspects of at least the Ga. case that are overbroad. On the actions performed, I think that Meadows, Cheseboro, Elllis, and probably another should not be charged.
Quote:Tanq is big on what the law says... [b]and I do not doubt that in most if not all cases, he is correct[/b[... but that doesn't mean that is what the people on a jury understand it to mean or want it to mean... hence why guilty people often walk as is a 'feature' of our system.
No one is ever correct all the time.
And in issues like applying the law in highly contentious scenarios (i.e. criminal law), as my litigation mentor told me (although I havent done real litigation in 20 years), you will be right about 50% of the time -- like pretty much everyone else in this biz.
