Actual versus market right sized stadium capacity for the ACC schools.

BC 44.4 K - right sized 40K
Clemson 83 K - right sized 85K
Duke 40 K - right sized 36K
GT 55 K - right sized 50K
FSU 79.5 K - right sized 75K
Louisville 60K - right sized 57K
UNC 50.5 K - right sized 50.5K
NC State 57K - right sized 62-65K
UVa 61K - right sized 52K
VT 66K - right sized 66K
WF 32K - right sized 32K

Pitt - needs 55K capacity
Miami - needs 55K capacity

Syracuse - inside the dome.

Most schools in the ACC are already where they need to be for seats. FSU, and UVa are overbuilt and Louisville will be overbuilt at 65K if you pull the trigger.

Only NC State is underbuilt but that goes back to Riddick Stadium being underbuilt in 1920.

Louisville my advice to you is that you have to be careful building for a visiting crowd. This is what FSU did. In your case you have to figure who beside ND and UK will come play you in Louisville and has a traveling football crowd.

My observation is that east of the Mississippi River there are just 8 or so "traveling fools" fan bases.

When I say traveling fools I mean those that load up the RV and will go 1000 miles in one direction come Hell or high water.

By and large it's LSU, Auburn, Bama, Tennessee, Clemson, Ohio State, Georgia, SC, and Penn State. West Va and ND used to fit this group.

Most of them have something in common, their main university is in a rural area so an away is a chance to travel as a quasi group.


Then there are travelers who travel more judiciously Florida, FSU, GT, Notre Dame, NC State, UNC, VT, Michigan, MSU, Kentucky, and West Va. Their reasons for being more selective vary but many are coming from areas that are really nice already in the fall.

To make the first group happy you need to be able to provide at least 12K tickets and 15 is better.

You need to be able to produce 7K at the next level.

(08-14-2023 07:49 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  My observation is that east of the Mississippi River there are just 8 or so "traveling fools" fan bases.

When I say traveling fools I mean those that load up the RV and will go 1000 miles in one direction come Hell or high water.

By and large it's LSU, Auburn, Bama, Tennessee, Clemson, Ohio State, Georgia, SC, and Penn State. West Va and ND used to fit this group.

Most of them have something in common, their main university is in a rural area so an away is a chance to travel as a quasi group.


Then there are travelers who travel more judiciously Florida, FSU, GT, Notre Dame, NC State, UNC, VT, Michigan, MSU, Kentucky, and West Va. Their reasons for being more selective vary but many are coming from areas that are really nice already in the fall.

To make the first group happy you need to be able to provide at least 12K tickets and 15 is better.

You need to be able to produce 7K at the next level.

That’s not what we have seen here. Clemson and FSU are the ONLY ACC fan bases who travel. UK fans travel to Louisville when they are playing well. If they aren’t, you won’t see more than a handful of Kentucky fans. (Football usually season ends in Lexington the first weekend of October when basketball practice starts.)

I’ve seen firsthand how NC State and GT fans travel. I can’t recall ever seeing a fan from one of those fan bases at a Louisville game and I tailgate in the most prominent visitor parking lot near the stadium so I can tailgate with visitors.

I have tailgated with FSU, Clemson, Syracuse and even Miami fans. UCF, Cincinnati and Memphis travel to Louisville better than NC State and GT have.

To be fair NC State is the only one that’s played in Louisville more than once during UofL’s first decade in The ACC.

GT has played here once on a Friday night. That probably affected travel. I know this years game being moved to Friday night from Saturday afternoon might keep me from traveling.

UNC hasn’t played a conference game in Louisville. They did play here in 2012 but I don’t recall seeing any UNC fans.

I have been a Louisville season ticket holder for nearly 40 years. The teams who have really traveled in real numbers to Louisville are Tennessee and West Virginia.

Clemson is the only team that’s come close to traveling anything like Tennessee.

Notre Dame fans “travel” to Louisville very well, they just don’t get many tickets. Irish fans don’t really have to travel here. Louisville is a very Catholic city. Many Louisville fans also root for Notre Dame and vice versa.

As for Louisville fans, we travel for big games.

Ask Notre Dame fans how many Louisville fans traveled to South Bend in 2014. NBC announcers commented about how many UofL fans got in.

This years game in Indy against IU will be a Louisville home game, just like it was when Louisville played Purdue there.

(08-15-2023 05:37 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 07:49 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  My observation is that east of the Mississippi River there are just 8 or so "traveling fools" fan bases.

When I say traveling fools I mean those that load up the RV and will go 1000 miles in one direction come Hell or high water.

By and large it's LSU, Auburn, Bama, Tennessee, Clemson, Ohio State, Georgia, SC, and Penn State. West Va and ND used to fit this group.

Most of them have something in common, their main university is in a rural area so an away is a chance to travel as a quasi group.


Then there are travelers who travel more judiciously Florida, FSU, GT, Notre Dame, NC State, UNC, VT, Michigan, MSU, Kentucky, and West Va. Their reasons for being more selective vary but many are coming from areas that are really nice already in the fall.

To make the first group happy you need to be able to provide at least 12K tickets and 15 is better.

You need to be able to produce 7K at the next level.

That’s not what we have seen here. Clemson and FSU are the ONLY ACC fan bases who travel. UK fans travel to Louisville when they are playing well. If they aren’t, you won’t see more than a handful of Kentucky fans. (Football usually season ends in Lexington the first weekend of October when basketball practice starts.)

I’ve seen firsthand how NC State and GT fans travel. I can’t recall ever seeing a fan from one of those fan bases at a Louisville game and I tailgate in the most prominent visitor parking lot near the stadium so I can tailgate with visitors.

I have tailgated with FSU, Clemson, Syracuse and even Miami fans. UCF, Cincinnati and Memphis travel to Louisville better than NC State and GT have.

To be fair NC State is the only one that’s played in Louisville more than once during UofL’s first decade in The ACC.

GT has played here once on a Friday night. That probably affected travel. I know this years game being moved to Friday night from Saturday afternoon might keep me from traveling.

UNC hasn’t played a conference game in Louisville. They did play here in 2012 but I don’t recall seeing any UNC fans.

I have been a Louisville season ticket holder for nearly 40 years. The teams who have really traveled in real numbers to Louisville are Tennessee and West Virginia.

Clemson is the only team that’s come close to traveling anything like Tennessee.

Notre Dame fans “travel” to Louisville very well, they just don’t get many tickets. Irish fans don’t really have to travel here. Louisville is a very Catholic city. Many Louisville fans also root for Notre Dame and vice versa.

As for Louisville fans, we travel for big games.

Ask Notre Dame fans how many Louisville fans traveled to South Bend in 2014. NBC announcers commented about how many UofL fans got in.

This years game in Indy against IU will be a Louisville home game, just like it was when Louisville played Purdue there.

There were A LOT of Florida State fans when Lamar dropped 62 on 'em. A LOT.

I doubt those folks come back. There's only so much bourbon you can drink to forget that kind of @ss whoppun.

(08-15-2023 05:37 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  That’s not what we have seen here. Clemson and FSU are the ONLY ACC fan bases who travel. UK fans travel to Louisville when they are playing well. If they aren’t, you won’t see more than a handful of Kentucky fans. (Football usually season ends in Lexington the first weekend of October when basketball practice starts.)

I’ve seen firsthand how NC State and GT fans travel. I can’t recall ever seeing a fan from one of those fan bases at a Louisville game and I tailgate in the most prominent visitor parking lot near the stadium so I can tailgate with visitors.

I have tailgated with FSU, Clemson, Syracuse and even Miami fans. UCF, Cincinnati and Memphis travel to Louisville better than NC State and GT have.

To be fair NC State is the only one that’s played in Louisville more than once during UofL’s first decade in The ACC.

GT has played here once on a Friday night. That probably affected travel. I know this years game being moved to Friday night from Saturday afternoon might keep me from traveling.

UNC hasn’t played a conference game in Louisville. They did play here in 2012 but I don’t recall seeing any UNC fans.

I have been a Louisville season ticket holder for nearly 40 years. The teams who have really traveled in real numbers to Louisville are Tennessee and West Virginia.

Clemson is the only team that’s come close to traveling anything like Tennessee.

Notre Dame fans “travel” to Louisville very well, they just don’t get many tickets. Irish fans don’t really have to travel here. Louisville is a very Catholic city. Many Louisville fans also root for Notre Dame and vice versa.

As for Louisville fans, we travel for big games.

Ask Notre Dame fans how many Louisville fans traveled to South Bend in 2014. NBC announcers commented about how many UofL fans got in.

This years game in Indy against IU will be a Louisville home game, just like it was when Louisville played Purdue there.

Has VT played at Louisville in a non-COVID season yet? VT fans travel well to North Carolina schools, Pitt, WVU, UVA and Md. I wouldn't see why they wouldn't travel well to Louisville. At least the fans in SWVA any way.

It could be most of the traveling fans are from NoVA, Norfolk and Richmond and a trip to Louisville doubles the travel time. IDK, but I would think VT fans would travel to Louisville.

(08-15-2023 02:48 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(08-15-2023 05:37 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  That’s not what we have seen here. Clemson and FSU are the ONLY ACC fan bases who travel. UK fans travel to Louisville when they are playing well. If they aren’t, you won’t see more than a handful of Kentucky fans. (Football usually season ends in Lexington the first weekend of October when basketball practice starts.)

I’ve seen firsthand how NC State and GT fans travel. I can’t recall ever seeing a fan from one of those fan bases at a Louisville game and I tailgate in the most prominent visitor parking lot near the stadium so I can tailgate with visitors.

I have tailgated with FSU, Clemson, Syracuse and even Miami fans. UCF, Cincinnati and Memphis travel to Louisville better than NC State and GT have.

To be fair NC State is the only one that’s played in Louisville more than once during UofL’s first decade in The ACC.

GT has played here once on a Friday night. That probably affected travel. I know this years game being moved to Friday night from Saturday afternoon might keep me from traveling.

UNC hasn’t played a conference game in Louisville. They did play here in 2012 but I don’t recall seeing any UNC fans.

I have been a Louisville season ticket holder for nearly 40 years. The teams who have really traveled in real numbers to Louisville are Tennessee and West Virginia.

Clemson is the only team that’s come close to traveling anything like Tennessee.

Notre Dame fans “travel” to Louisville very well, they just don’t get many tickets. Irish fans don’t really have to travel here. Louisville is a very Catholic city. Many Louisville fans also root for Notre Dame and vice versa.

As for Louisville fans, we travel for big games.

Ask Notre Dame fans how many Louisville fans traveled to South Bend in 2014. NBC announcers commented about how many UofL fans got in.

This years game in Indy against IU will be a Louisville home game, just like it was when Louisville played Purdue there.

Has VT played at Louisville in a non-COVID season yet? VT fans travel well to North Carolina schools, Pitt, WVU, UVA and Md. I wouldn't see why they wouldn't travel well to Louisville. At least the fans in SWVA any way.

It could be most of the traveling fans are from NoVA, Norfolk and Richmond and a trip to Louisville doubles the travel time. IDK, but I would think VT fans would travel to Louisville.

You guys are only making your 2nd ACC trip to Louisville this season. (Louisville hasn’t been to Blacksburg as an ACC member.) The first one was Covid season and tickets were limited. This year’s game is one I’m really looking forward to.

It’s a shame The ACC doesn’t schedule games between UofL and VaTech more often. Missing a real opportunity to have two programs in border states to play each other more often.

(08-15-2023 03:01 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-15-2023 02:48 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(08-15-2023 05:37 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  That’s not what we have seen here. Clemson and FSU are the ONLY ACC fan bases who travel. UK fans travel to Louisville when they are playing well. If they aren’t, you won’t see more than a handful of Kentucky fans. (Football usually season ends in Lexington the first weekend of October when basketball practice starts.)

I’ve seen firsthand how NC State and GT fans travel. I can’t recall ever seeing a fan from one of those fan bases at a Louisville game and I tailgate in the most prominent visitor parking lot near the stadium so I can tailgate with visitors.

I have tailgated with FSU, Clemson, Syracuse and even Miami fans. UCF, Cincinnati and Memphis travel to Louisville better than NC State and GT have.

To be fair NC State is the only one that’s played in Louisville more than once during UofL’s first decade in The ACC.

GT has played here once on a Friday night. That probably affected travel. I know this years game being moved to Friday night from Saturday afternoon might keep me from traveling.

UNC hasn’t played a conference game in Louisville. They did play here in 2012 but I don’t recall seeing any UNC fans.

I have been a Louisville season ticket holder for nearly 40 years. The teams who have really traveled in real numbers to Louisville are Tennessee and West Virginia.

Clemson is the only team that’s come close to traveling anything like Tennessee.

Notre Dame fans “travel” to Louisville very well, they just don’t get many tickets. Irish fans don’t really have to travel here. Louisville is a very Catholic city. Many Louisville fans also root for Notre Dame and vice versa.

As for Louisville fans, we travel for big games.

Ask Notre Dame fans how many Louisville fans traveled to South Bend in 2014. NBC announcers commented about how many UofL fans got in.

This years game in Indy against IU will be a Louisville home game, just like it was when Louisville played Purdue there.

Has VT played at Louisville in a non-COVID season yet? VT fans travel well to North Carolina schools, Pitt, WVU, UVA and Md. I wouldn't see why they wouldn't travel well to Louisville. At least the fans in SWVA any way.

It could be most of the traveling fans are from NoVA, Norfolk and Richmond and a trip to Louisville doubles the travel time. IDK, but I would think VT fans would travel to Louisville.

You guys are only making your 2nd ACC trip to Louisville this season. (Louisville hasn’t been to Blacksburg as an ACC member.) The first one was Covid season and tickets were limited. This year’s game is one I’m really looking forward to.

It’s a shame The ACC doesn’t schedule games between UofL and VaTech more often. Missing a real opportunity to have two programs in border states to play each other more often.

Divisionless scheduling to the rescue! 2023 VT @ UL; 2024 UL @ VT

(08-15-2023 05:37 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 07:49 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  My observation is that east of the Mississippi River there are just 8 or so "traveling fools" fan bases.

When I say traveling fools I mean those that load up the RV and will go 1000 miles in one direction come Hell or high water.

By and large it's LSU, Auburn, Bama, Tennessee, Clemson, Ohio State, Georgia, SC, and Penn State. West Va and ND used to fit this group.

Most of them have something in common, their main university is in a rural area so an away is a chance to travel as a quasi group.


Then there are travelers who travel more judiciously Florida, FSU, GT, Notre Dame, NC State, UNC, VT, Michigan, MSU, Kentucky, and West Va. Their reasons for being more selective vary but many are coming from areas that are really nice already in the fall.

To make the first group happy you need to be able to provide at least 12K tickets and 15 is better.

You need to be able to produce 7K at the next level.

That’s not what we have seen here. Clemson and FSU are the ONLY ACC fan bases who travel. UK fans travel to Louisville when they are playing well. If they aren’t, you won’t see more than a handful of Kentucky fans. (Football usually season ends in Lexington the first weekend of October when basketball practice starts.)

I’ve seen firsthand how NC State and GT fans travel. I can’t recall ever seeing a fan from one of those fan bases at a Louisville game and I tailgate in the most prominent visitor parking lot near the stadium so I can tailgate with visitors.

I have tailgated with FSU, Clemson, Syracuse and even Miami fans. UCF, Cincinnati and Memphis travel to Louisville better than NC State and GT have.

To be fair NC State is the only one that’s played in Louisville more than once during UofL’s first decade in The ACC.

GT has played here once on a Friday night. That probably affected travel. I know this years game being moved to Friday night from Saturday afternoon might keep me from traveling.

UNC hasn’t played a conference game in Louisville. They did play here in 2012 but I don’t recall seeing any UNC fans.

I have been a Louisville season ticket holder for nearly 40 years. The teams who have really traveled in real numbers to Louisville are Tennessee and West Virginia.

Clemson is the only team that’s come close to traveling anything like Tennessee.

Notre Dame fans “travel” to Louisville very well, they just don’t get many tickets. Irish fans don’t really have to travel here. Louisville is a very Catholic city. Many Louisville fans also root for Notre Dame and vice versa.

As for Louisville fans, we travel for big games.

Ask Notre Dame fans how many Louisville fans traveled to South Bend in 2014. NBC announcers commented about how many UofL fans got in.

This years game in Indy against IU will be a Louisville home game, just like it was when Louisville played Purdue there.

It's a long trip through bum **** to get to Louisville. Trust me. I've done it three times.

After 94 and 2014 we are not going back for another football game. You ruined our season in 1994 playing in the baseball field.

Travel to an unwinnable game is no fun.
Travel to a game when you know your team is ignoring the game and looking past it is worse.
It's difficult to get up for Louisville unless you are Kentucky or some other program with key history.

The one thing about State College you can depend on is that they play to the level of the opponent be it Alabama, Clemson, Furman, or EKU.

(08-15-2023 03:29 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-15-2023 03:01 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-15-2023 02:48 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(08-15-2023 05:37 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  That’s not what we have seen here. Clemson and FSU are the ONLY ACC fan bases who travel. UK fans travel to Louisville when they are playing well. If they aren’t, you won’t see more than a handful of Kentucky fans. (Football usually season ends in Lexington the first weekend of October when basketball practice starts.)

I’ve seen firsthand how NC State and GT fans travel. I can’t recall ever seeing a fan from one of those fan bases at a Louisville game and I tailgate in the most prominent visitor parking lot near the stadium so I can tailgate with visitors.

I have tailgated with FSU, Clemson, Syracuse and even Miami fans. UCF, Cincinnati and Memphis travel to Louisville better than NC State and GT have.

To be fair NC State is the only one that’s played in Louisville more than once during UofL’s first decade in The ACC.

GT has played here once on a Friday night. That probably affected travel. I know this years game being moved to Friday night from Saturday afternoon might keep me from traveling.

UNC hasn’t played a conference game in Louisville. They did play here in 2012 but I don’t recall seeing any UNC fans.

I have been a Louisville season ticket holder for nearly 40 years. The teams who have really traveled in real numbers to Louisville are Tennessee and West Virginia.

Clemson is the only team that’s come close to traveling anything like Tennessee.

Notre Dame fans “travel” to Louisville very well, they just don’t get many tickets. Irish fans don’t really have to travel here. Louisville is a very Catholic city. Many Louisville fans also root for Notre Dame and vice versa.

As for Louisville fans, we travel for big games.

Ask Notre Dame fans how many Louisville fans traveled to South Bend in 2014. NBC announcers commented about how many UofL fans got in.

This years game in Indy against IU will be a Louisville home game, just like it was when Louisville played Purdue there.

Has VT played at Louisville in a non-COVID season yet? VT fans travel well to North Carolina schools, Pitt, WVU, UVA and Md. I wouldn't see why they wouldn't travel well to Louisville. At least the fans in SWVA any way.

It could be most of the traveling fans are from NoVA, Norfolk and Richmond and a trip to Louisville doubles the travel time. IDK, but I would think VT fans would travel to Louisville.

You guys are only making your 2nd ACC trip to Louisville this season. (Louisville hasn’t been to Blacksburg as an ACC member.) The first one was Covid season and tickets were limited. This year’s game is one I’m really looking forward to.

It’s a shame The ACC doesn’t schedule games between UofL and VaTech more often. Missing a real opportunity to have two programs in border states to play each other more often.

Divisionless scheduling to the rescue! 2023 VT @ UL; 2024 UL @ VT

BTW, for those of you sick & tired of being told how the ACC w/o Clemson and FSU is inferior to the new Big XII, I posted the head-to-head record for the last 9 seasons on my blog.

https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2023/...owing.html

Bottom Line: the New Big XII won 19 games, the ACC w/o Clemson and FSU won 18.

So the Big XII without Texas and OU is basically the same as the ACC without Clemson and Florida State.