(07-17-2023 10:14 AM)JJOHN368 Wrote:  Do you think that any conference would see adding either Montana or Montana State as being a package deal with the other school having to be invited as well? I would be shocked if either school would be willing to give up that rivalry game.

O'Day (former UM AD) addresses that in the interview also. Basically one could've moved back in the day but didn't without the other.

(07-17-2023 10:22 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(07-17-2023 10:14 AM)JJOHN368 Wrote:  Do you think that any conference would see adding either Montana or Montana State as being a package deal with the other school having to be invited as well? I would be shocked if either school would be willing to give up that rivalry game.

O'Day (former UM AD) addresses that in the interview also. Basically one could've moved back in the day but didn't without the other.

I think there is a hint that the Big Sky schools like the Montana AD that the MWC could get picked apart. Since the attendance requirements are no more or enforced? It does not matter the size of the stadium anymore. That would mean several Big Sky schools could join the two Dakota schools into FBS and MWC.

(07-17-2023 10:14 AM)JJOHN368 Wrote:  

(07-17-2023 05:56 AM)captain_jazz Wrote:  

(07-15-2023 11:07 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  They are all free to apply. But they don't come close to the entrance criteria.

1. Athletic budgets, specifically FB, MBB and BB
2. Major airport access
3. FBS level facilities
4. Donor $ levels
5. High value market access
6. Access to high value recruiting cities for students
7. Access to high value recruiting regions for athletes
8. MWC aligns with schools long term conference goals

Basically, SDSU fails on all 8, NDSU fails on 7. Montana and Montana State fail on these criteria as well, except that they do meet criteria #8.

Bad adds from the MWC standpoint. Remember it isn't about what you want to sell to the me (MWC), it's about what I (MWC) want to buy.

FWIW Montana has FBS level facilities, decent donor $$’s and a rabid fan base with higher attendances than most the MWC

Do you think that any conference would see adding either Montana or Montana State as being a package deal with the other school having to be invited as well? I would be shocked if either school would be willing to give up that rivalry game.

I can’t speak to the current state of Cat/Griz politics, but that was a sticking point when UM was last invited to go FBS. The sentiment then (late 2000s) was the WAC could take both or would have neither. Montana was invited, MSU was not.

I wonder how things have changed since then, if at all? Montana State has done some… catching up since then. Hopefully a Griz fan can chime in.

(07-17-2023 07:28 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(07-16-2023 02:20 PM)jacksfan29! Wrote:  

(07-15-2023 06:31 PM)bhutchcraft89 Wrote:  Think the MVFC could compete with the MAC. I would like to see MVFC and Big Sky move up to FBS.

Could compete? Top of the MVFC would dominate the MAC, CUSA, and the top two would have little problem playing at the top of the MWC and Sun Belt.

The NDSU teams of the last few years would be very competitive in every G5 league. Not sure they would dominate but would definitely be in the championship level of the league. NDSU has taken FCS level of play to heights never before reached.

Not sure what your calling the top but few teams outside of NDSU and SDSU (most years) would be anywhere near dominate, Good solid teams yes. If your statement is true Sam will dominate CUSA this year as their programs would be at the top of the MVC only below NDSU.

Objectively hilarious to clump SDSU and NDSU together as “the top of the MVFC” as if the two are on any sort of level footing. One is the dynasty of a lifetime, the other didn’t even have a semis appearance until like five years ago. Lol

SDSU is closer to being Illinois State than they are to North Dakota State. “Top of the MVFC” is a one team group.

NDSU is gonna have a hard time soon - half their students were form MN but MN is now giving free college so no need to go out of state for kids looking for an affordable experience near home

So they're gonna shrink their enrollment very soon

SDSU I have no idea why the B12 doesn't want them - they'd be another enticement for AZ to join (access to SoCal) and a great travel destination

Both Montana schools are R1. Back at the time, Montana State was not an R1. Now, they both are.

(07-17-2023 10:49 AM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  Objectively hilarious to clump SDSU and NDSU together as “the top of the MVFC” as if the two are on any sort of level footing. One is the dynasty of a lifetime, the other didn’t even have a semis appearance until like five years ago. Lol

SDSU is closer to being Illinois State than they are to North Dakota State. “Top of the MVFC” is a one team group.

Those two have been the top of the MVFC for a decade (and I'm a UND fan saying that). The only real hiccup was "Covid Spring".

SDSU couldn't get past NDSU until lately and NDSU consistently got the better seed (home path). SDSU seems to have figured it out however, evidence 2022.

The MVFC battle again this fall is for third. Only if you can knock one of the SUs off do you go higher (and I have hopes for that).

(07-17-2023 11:05 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Both Montana schools are R1. Back at the time, Montana State was not an R1. Now, they both are.

I believe the Montana schools do a very good job of situation appraisal. Former UM AD O'Day could've jumped a couple times but I believe he took a long, hard look at what the jump "did" for U of Idaho.

(07-17-2023 11:09 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(07-17-2023 10:49 AM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  Objectively hilarious to clump SDSU and NDSU together as “the top of the MVFC” as if the two are on any sort of level footing. One is the dynasty of a lifetime, the other didn’t even have a semis appearance until like five years ago. Lol

SDSU is closer to being Illinois State than they are to North Dakota State. “Top of the MVFC” is a one team group.

Those two have been the top of the MVFC for a decade (and I'm a UND fan saying that). The only real hiccup was "Covid Spring".

SDSU couldn't get past NDSU until lately and NDSU consistently got the better seed (home path). SDSU seems to have figured it out however, evidence 2022.

The MVFC battle again this fall is for third. Only if you can knock one of the SUs off do you go higher (and I have hopes for that).

SDSU finished fifth in the Valley in 2021 and fourth in 2019, I’d hardly exclude them from the rest of the group as if they’re some sort of consistently dominant program. Seem like a decent team, and hopefully will continue to improve now that a bumbling drunk isn’t running the program, but I wouldn’t say they’d “dominate” G5 conferences like NDSU would.

IMO, it’s NDSU and everyone else in the Valley, but if you want to be inclusive we can call say UNI, SDSU and ISUr the “top of the MVFC”. In that case however, I’d disagree with the notion that the top of the conference would run over MAC and CUSA and Belt schools.

Populations of states out west:

Nevada 3.1 million
New Mexico 2.1 million
Idaho 2.0 million
Montana 1.1 million
S.Dakota 910 thousand
N.Dakota 779 thousand
Wyoming 577 thousand

If UNM left I think NMSU would bring more value to the MWC.

But NDSU/SDSU as a pair look more valuable than just going in with UM/MSU as the two Dakotas combined have more population.

A good question to have answered is what MWC are 100% off the table for expansion if the PAC/XII raids the MWC heavily?

Those 2-3-4 might can snag UTEP/NMSU as a pair and then you basically turn around and reverse raid the Big Sky into oblivion. The other option is that the MWC disbands completely and AF ends up in the AAC and then the other leftovers possibly join CUSA.

(07-17-2023 11:25 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  Populations of states out west:

Nevada 3.1 million
New Mexico 2.1 million
Idaho 2.0 million
Montana 1.1 million
S.Dakota 910 thousand
N.Dakota 779 thousand
Wyoming 577 thousand

If UNM left I think NMSU would bring more value to the MWC.

But NDSU/SDSU as a pair look more valuable than just going in with UM/MSU as the two Dakotas combined have more population.

IMO, the Montana pair brings a better rivalry and better cross-pollination - already more MWC fans in Montana and more Montana and Montana State fans in current MWC footprint.

NDSU has the advantage with more casual-viewer appeal because of their unparalleled FCS success - and may be more reasonable to broadcast a MWC @ NDSU football game in the 12pm ET/11am CT timeslot to create potential value for CBS and FOX.

(07-17-2023 10:56 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  NDSU is gonna have a hard time soon - half their students were form MN but MN is now giving free college so no need to go out of state for kids looking for an affordable experience near home

So they're gonna shrink their enrollment very soon

SDSU I have no idea why the B12 doesn't want them - they'd be another enticement for AZ to join (access to SoCal) and a great travel destination

Free college plan only applies to families making up to 80,000 a year. That is not very much at all, particularly on two incomes.

https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-leg...3e716b7ad6

I doubt NDSU/SDSU are attracting many families from Minnesota under that threshold. They are probably getting conservative upper middle class students from the suburban areas to attend. You don't go out of state unless you have some money.

(07-17-2023 11:29 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(07-17-2023 11:25 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  Populations of states out west:

Nevada 3.1 million
New Mexico 2.1 million
Idaho 2.0 million
Montana 1.1 million
S.Dakota 910 thousand
N.Dakota 779 thousand
Wyoming 577 thousand

If UNM left I think NMSU would bring more value to the MWC.

But NDSU/SDSU as a pair look more valuable than just going in with UM/MSU as the two Dakotas combined have more population.

IMO, the Montana pair brings a better rivalry and better cross-pollination - already more MWC fans in Montana and more Montana and Montana State fans in current MWC footprint.

NDSU has the advantage with more casual-viewer appeal because of their unparalleled FCS success - and may be more reasonable to broadcast a MWC @ NDSU football game in the 12pm ET/11am CT timeslot to create potential value for CBS and FOX.

Central timezone games another good point about NDSU/SDSU.

(07-17-2023 10:49 AM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  

(07-17-2023 07:28 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(07-16-2023 02:20 PM)jacksfan29! Wrote:  

(07-15-2023 06:31 PM)bhutchcraft89 Wrote:  Think the MVFC could compete with the MAC. I would like to see MVFC and Big Sky move up to FBS.

Could compete? Top of the MVFC would dominate the MAC, CUSA, and the top two would have little problem playing at the top of the MWC and Sun Belt.

The NDSU teams of the last few years would be very competitive in every G5 league. Not sure they would dominate but would definitely be in the championship level of the league. NDSU has taken FCS level of play to heights never before reached.

Not sure what your calling the top but few teams outside of NDSU and SDSU (most years) would be anywhere near dominate, Good solid teams yes. If your statement is true Sam will dominate CUSA this year as their programs would be at the top of the MVC only below NDSU.

Objectively hilarious to clump SDSU and NDSU together as “the top of the MVFC” as if the two are on any sort of level footing. One is the dynasty of a lifetime, the other didn’t even have a semis appearance until like five years ago. Lol

SDSU is closer to being Illinois State than they are to North Dakota State. “Top of the MVFC” is a one team group.

My last sentence separated the two. SDSU has a good program but as stated it isnt as good as SAMs.

(07-17-2023 10:56 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  SDSU I have no idea why the B12 doesn't want them - they'd be another enticement for AZ to join (access to SoCal) and a great travel destination

Arizona + SDSU makes a lot of sense for the Big 12's goals to get into the 4th time zone and extends the reach of the Big 12 footprint into contiguous states.

But, even if SDSU provides sufficient value, there is the matter of optics. The Big 12 would likely want to add SDSU *in conjunction with* or even after Arizona + Colorado.