(06-11-2023 06:31 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 06:14 PM)Jhawkinva Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 05:04 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 03:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 03:39 PM)Jhawkinva Wrote:  Virginia is a strong 2nd most popular school in Virginia, with Virginia Tech edging them for the most popular.

One thing to note is the Hokies are 4 hours drive time from Northern Virginia, the highly affluent and densely populated DC suburbs where they're the most favored team.

Their stadium seats 66k, but that's while being located far away from many of their fans that don't like to make the drive to Blacksburg.

All that is to say, they actually have more support in Virginia than their stadium attendance indicates.

Uh-huh.

VT certainly seems to have more football enthusiasm, though it's hard to rank them ahead of UVA for Realignment purposes even so. One thing that I will say is that VT seems to be a whole lot stronger in Virginia than NC St is in North Carolina.

I think UVA is clearly the more likely to be sought. But I also think VT would deliver more TV dollars, and would better fit the SEC culture.

It's interesting, I think that we'll go after UVA simply to thwart the B1G, but if we have to "settle" for VT then it will feel kind of like a win. Which is very different from UNC/NC St. There's only one (public) school that matters in North Carolina.

FOOTBALL RISK

Wait till you roll a bunch ones on the dice.

(06-11-2023 06:31 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 06:14 PM)Jhawkinva Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 05:04 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 03:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 03:39 PM)Jhawkinva Wrote:  Virginia is a strong 2nd most popular school in Virginia, with Virginia Tech edging them for the most popular.

One thing to note is the Hokies are 4 hours drive time from Northern Virginia, the highly affluent and densely populated DC suburbs where they're the most favored team.

Their stadium seats 66k, but that's while being located far away from many of their fans that don't like to make the drive to Blacksburg.

All that is to say, they actually have more support in Virginia than their stadium attendance indicates.

Uh-huh.

VT certainly seems to have more football enthusiasm, though it's hard to rank them ahead of UVA for Realignment purposes even so. One thing that I will say is that VT seems to be a whole lot stronger in Virginia than NC St is in North Carolina.

I think UVA is clearly the more likely to be sought. But I also think VT would deliver more TV dollars, and would better fit the SEC culture.

It's interesting, I think that we'll go after UVA simply to thwart the B1G, but if we have to "settle" for VT then it will feel kind of like a win. Which is very different from UNC/NC St. There's only one (public) school that matters in North Carolina.

You have obviously made up your mind about NC state. UNC is the top school and has a national following, I won't argue that at all, but I see a heck of a lot of support for NC state on a daily basis. IF NC state were to be invited to the SEC, with the benefits that come from being in that conference and time to integrate, I think you would be happily surprised with the program and the fan support.

I won't say it will never happen, but if UNC were to leave for the SEC/B1G without NC state having a spot in either (obviously the chances are vastly SEC over the B1G for the wolfpack) I will need a forklift to raise my jaw off the ground.

(06-11-2023 04:16 PM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 03:39 PM)Jhawkinva Wrote:  Virginia is a strong 2nd most popular school in Virginia, with Virginia Tech edging them for the most popular.

One thing to note is the Hokies are 4 hours drive time from Northern Virginia, the highly affluent and densely populated DC suburbs where they're the most favored team.

Their stadium seats 66k, but that's while being located far away from many of their fans that don't like to make the drive to Blacksburg.

All that is to say, they actually have more support in Virginia than their stadium attendance indicates.

You think the DC suburbs people even care about college football ? If they do its not VT.

Being born and raised in the DC suburbs and still having many family and friends in that area, yes they care about football and yes VT has a lot of support in the area.

(06-11-2023 09:39 PM)ENCterrapin Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 06:31 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 06:14 PM)Jhawkinva Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 05:04 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 03:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  Uh-huh.

VT certainly seems to have more football enthusiasm, though it's hard to rank them ahead of UVA for Realignment purposes even so. One thing that I will say is that VT seems to be a whole lot stronger in Virginia than NC St is in North Carolina.

I think UVA is clearly the more likely to be sought. But I also think VT would deliver more TV dollars, and would better fit the SEC culture.

It's interesting, I think that we'll go after UVA simply to thwart the B1G, but if we have to "settle" for VT then it will feel kind of like a win. Which is very different from UNC/NC St. There's only one (public) school that matters in North Carolina.

You have obviously made up your mind about NC state. UNC is the top school and has a national following, I won't argue that at all, but I see a heck of a lot of support for NC state on a daily basis. IF NC state were to be invited to the SEC, with the benefits that come from being in that conference and time to integrate, I think you would be happily surprised with the program and the fan support.

I won't say it will never happen, but if UNC were to leave for the SEC/B1G without NC state having a spot in either (obviously the chances are vastly SEC over the B1G for the wolfpack) I will need a forklift to raise my jaw off the ground.

I have nothing at all against NC St. They're a strong school Academically and Athletically. However, they don't fit the mold of past SEC and B1G adds:

Penn St
Nebraska
Rutgers
Maryland
USC
UCLA

Arkansas
South Carolina
A&M
Missouri
OU
UT

All are flagships or flagship equivalents. Every B1G school was AAU at the time of the invite. NC State is not a flagship. They're not a flagship equivalent. They might not even be #2 in their own State. They're not AAU and very unlikely to get interest from the B1G, which leaves the SEC. For us, they're good but not so Elite in any sport that they can get by their shortcomings. It's probably easier to make a case for Duke if you want a 2nd NC school b/c they're all-time great in Basketball and Tier 1 in Academics, 2 things that the SEC could use more of. If we start looking at NC St-level schools then why wouldn't we look at 1/2 of the big 12?

UNC/Clemson/FSU are clearly good candidates for the P2. Miami and UVA decent candidates for the P2 and certainly either would be great to even out the numbers. VT is much more competitive with UVA in their state, it's reasonable to call them a co-flagship, and they'd make an excellent partner for UNC (as opposed to NC St, which gives you nothing that you don't already have with UNC). That's 6 ACC schools that are clearly more desirable than NC St.

Oh, one final nail in NC St's coffin: they've been last or next to last in athletic revenues in the ACC every year for the past 5 years.

I have nothing at all against NC St. They're a very good school, probably near the top of the list for the AAU, and they care a lot about sports and compete very well. They're just more of a Baylor, Ok St, TCU or Texas Tech level of program, and that type of program hasn't historically gotten a P2 invite.

edit: as for the "UNC leaving NC State behind" thing...UCLA left Cal. OU left OSU. A&M and then UT both left Texas Tech. Would the BoR really stop UNC from making an extra $30m++ per year? I think that they might if NC St was going to get dumped into the AAC or C-USA, but they'll have a soft landing spot in the rebuilt ACC, the big 12, or some combination of 2-3 of the M3. So it will be more like: "UNC can get $75m per year while NC St gets $45m per year, or they can both make $45m per year". At worst, the BoR would dump a tax on UNC like Cal's leeching off UCLA, but I think that even that is unlikely.

(06-11-2023 10:45 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  ....
Why Is Miami in the Magnificent 7 anyway ? Its a small school. Wheres the logic ?

Something about multiple national titles under multiple coaches tends to put you on lists you might not otherwise find yourself on.

(06-11-2023 10:16 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 10:45 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  ....
Why Is Miami in the Magnificent 7 anyway ? Its a small school. Wheres the logic ?

Something about multiple national titles under multiple coaches tends to put you on lists you might not otherwise find yourself on.

And now the AAU puts them on a B1G list that they might not otherwise have been on, too. I feel like I've moved a lot on Miami recently, but it's justified.

(06-11-2023 11:45 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  Its a total mess. Georgia Tech and Louisville fans are not thrilled with not being part of the Magnificent 7 and think they belong over Virginia Tech, NC State and whoever. The whole thing is a clown show.

It's not an exclusive club. If Georgia Tech and Louisville want to vote with the rest and help challenge the grant of rights, saddle up your ponies and let's ride.

We don't know that it's only seven. We only know that seven schools were listed in a recent leak to the public.

(06-11-2023 02:30 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  GT, Louisville and NC State are all dominated by the State Flagship in their individual states. Neither of the P2 has ever taken a clear 2nd fiddle.
....

How 'bout them Aggies.

(06-11-2023 10:11 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 09:39 PM)ENCterrapin Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 06:31 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 06:14 PM)Jhawkinva Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 05:04 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  VT certainly seems to have more football enthusiasm, though it's hard to rank them ahead of UVA for Realignment purposes even so. One thing that I will say is that VT seems to be a whole lot stronger in Virginia than NC St is in North Carolina.

I think UVA is clearly the more likely to be sought. But I also think VT would deliver more TV dollars, and would better fit the SEC culture.

It's interesting, I think that we'll go after UVA simply to thwart the B1G, but if we have to "settle" for VT then it will feel kind of like a win. Which is very different from UNC/NC St. There's only one (public) school that matters in North Carolina.

You have obviously made up your mind about NC state. UNC is the top school and has a national following, I won't argue that at all, but I see a heck of a lot of support for NC state on a daily basis. IF NC state were to be invited to the SEC, with the benefits that come from being in that conference and time to integrate, I think you would be happily surprised with the program and the fan support.

I won't say it will never happen, but if UNC were to leave for the SEC/B1G without NC state having a spot in either (obviously the chances are vastly SEC over the B1G for the wolfpack) I will need a forklift to raise my jaw off the ground.

I have nothing at all against NC St. They're a strong school Academically and Athletically. However, they don't fit the mold of past SEC and B1G adds:

Penn St
Nebraska
Rutgers
Maryland
USC
UCLA

Arkansas
South Carolina
A&M
Missouri
OU
UT

All are flagships or flagship equivalents. Every B1G school was AAU at the time of the invite. NC State is not a flagship. They're not a flagship equivalent. They might not even be #2 in their own State. They're not AAU and very unlikely to get interest from the B1G, which leaves the SEC. For us, they're good but not so Elite in any sport that they can get by their shortcomings. It's probably easier to make a case for Duke if you want a 2nd NC school b/c they're all-time great in Basketball and Tier 1 in Academics, 2 things that the SEC could use more of. If we start looking at NC St-level schools then why wouldn't we look at 1/2 of the big 12?

UNC/Clemson/FSU are clearly good candidates for the P2. Miami and UVA decent candidates for the P2 and certainly either would be great to even out the numbers. VT is much more competitive with UVA in their state, it's reasonable to call them a co-flagship, and they'd make an excellent partner for UNC (as opposed to NC St, which gives you nothing that you don't already have with UNC). That's 6 ACC schools that are clearly more desirable than NC St.

Oh, one final nail in NC St's coffin: they've been last or next to last in athletic revenues in the ACC every year for the past 5 years.

I have nothing at all against NC St. They're a very good school, probably near the top of the list for the AAU, and they care a lot about sports and compete very well. They're just more of a Baylor, Ok St, TCU or Texas Tech level of program, and that type of program hasn't historically gotten a P2 invite.

edit: as for the "UNC leaving NC State behind" thing...UCLA left Cal. OU left OSU. A&M and then UT both left Texas Tech. Would the BoR really stop UNC from making an extra $30m++ per year? I think that they might if NC St was going to get dumped into the AAC or C-USA, but they'll have a soft landing spot in the rebuilt ACC, the big 12, or some combination of 2-3 of the M3. So it will be more like: "UNC can get $75m per year while NC St gets $45m per year, or they can both make $45m per year". At worst, the BoR would dump a tax on UNC like Cal's leeching off UCLA, but I think that even that is unlikely.

You are selling the Wolfpack short. They have the largest football fanbase in NC and have almost 10k more butts in seats than NC.

But where you are really selling them short is they are wanted by the other six M7 schools. The Magnificent Seven should have been named the Solidarity Seven. These seven schools have chosen who they prefer the SEC add. Note Duke, GT and Louisville did not make the cut. Now the eighth spot was held open for ND in case that is a possibility; therefore, if ND does not go with them, and more that likely they do not, one of those three schools with get the eighth spot. I think it will be GT. The SEC cannot allow the B1G into Atlanta.

(06-11-2023 10:22 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 11:45 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  Its a total mess. Georgia Tech and Louisville fans are not thrilled with not being part of the Magnificent 7 and think they belong over Virginia Tech, NC State and whoever. The whole thing is a clown show.

It's not an exclusive club. If Georgia Tech and Louisville want to vote with the rest and help challenge the grant of rights, saddle up your ponies and let's ride.

We don't know that it's only seven. We only know that seven schools were listed in a recent leak to the public.

(06-11-2023 02:30 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  GT, Louisville and NC State are all dominated by the State Flagship in their individual states. Neither of the P2 has ever taken a clear 2nd fiddle.
....

How 'bout them Aggies.

I know that you were being deliberately obtuse, but that was still pretty good. I wonder how well you guys will do if you ever make it into the SEC.

(06-11-2023 09:39 PM)ENCterrapin Wrote:  ....
UNC is the top school and has a national following, I won't argue that at all, but I see a heck of a lot of support for NC state on a daily basis. IF NC state were to be invited to the SEC, with the benefits that come from being in that conference and time to integrate, I think you would be happily surprised with the program and the fan support.

I won't say it will never happen, but if UNC were to leave for the SEC/B1G without NC state having a spot in either (obviously the chances are vastly SEC over the B1G for the wolfpack) I will need a forklift to raise my jaw off the ground.

Good engineering schools place grads all over. They claim alumni in places that some casual fans might not expect.

(06-11-2023 10:27 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 10:11 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 09:39 PM)ENCterrapin Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 06:31 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 06:14 PM)Jhawkinva Wrote:  I think UVA is clearly the more likely to be sought. But I also think VT would deliver more TV dollars, and would better fit the SEC culture.

It's interesting, I think that we'll go after UVA simply to thwart the B1G, but if we have to "settle" for VT then it will feel kind of like a win. Which is very different from UNC/NC St. There's only one (public) school that matters in North Carolina.

You have obviously made up your mind about NC state. UNC is the top school and has a national following, I won't argue that at all, but I see a heck of a lot of support for NC state on a daily basis. IF NC state were to be invited to the SEC, with the benefits that come from being in that conference and time to integrate, I think you would be happily surprised with the program and the fan support.

I won't say it will never happen, but if UNC were to leave for the SEC/B1G without NC state having a spot in either (obviously the chances are vastly SEC over the B1G for the wolfpack) I will need a forklift to raise my jaw off the ground.

I have nothing at all against NC St. They're a strong school Academically and Athletically. However, they don't fit the mold of past SEC and B1G adds:

Penn St
Nebraska
Rutgers
Maryland
USC
UCLA

Arkansas
South Carolina
A&M
Missouri
OU
UT

All are flagships or flagship equivalents. Every B1G school was AAU at the time of the invite. NC State is not a flagship. They're not a flagship equivalent. They might not even be #2 in their own State. They're not AAU and very unlikely to get interest from the B1G, which leaves the SEC. For us, they're good but not so Elite in any sport that they can get by their shortcomings. It's probably easier to make a case for Duke if you want a 2nd NC school b/c they're all-time great in Basketball and Tier 1 in Academics, 2 things that the SEC could use more of. If we start looking at NC St-level schools then why wouldn't we look at 1/2 of the big 12?

UNC/Clemson/FSU are clearly good candidates for the P2. Miami and UVA decent candidates for the P2 and certainly either would be great to even out the numbers. VT is much more competitive with UVA in their state, it's reasonable to call them a co-flagship, and they'd make an excellent partner for UNC (as opposed to NC St, which gives you nothing that you don't already have with UNC). That's 6 ACC schools that are clearly more desirable than NC St.

Oh, one final nail in NC St's coffin: they've been last or next to last in athletic revenues in the ACC every year for the past 5 years.

I have nothing at all against NC St. They're a very good school, probably near the top of the list for the AAU, and they care a lot about sports and compete very well. They're just more of a Baylor, Ok St, TCU or Texas Tech level of program, and that type of program hasn't historically gotten a P2 invite.

edit: as for the "UNC leaving NC State behind" thing...UCLA left Cal. OU left OSU. A&M and then UT both left Texas Tech. Would the BoR really stop UNC from making an extra $30m++ per year? I think that they might if NC St was going to get dumped into the AAC or C-USA, but they'll have a soft landing spot in the rebuilt ACC, the big 12, or some combination of 2-3 of the M3. So it will be more like: "UNC can get $75m per year while NC St gets $45m per year, or they can both make $45m per year". At worst, the BoR would dump a tax on UNC like Cal's leeching off UCLA, but I think that even that is unlikely.

You are selling the Wolfpack short. They have the largest football fanbase in NC and have almost 10k more butts in seats than NC.

But where you are really selling them short is they are wanted by the other six M7 schools. The Magnificent Seven should have been named the Solidarity Seven. These seven schools have chosen who they prefer the SEC add. Note Duke, GT and Louisville did not make the cut. Now the eighth spot was held open for ND in case that is a possibility; therefore, if ND does not go with them, and more that likely they do not, one of those three schools with get the eighth spot. I think it will be GT. The SEC cannot allow the B1G into Atlanta.

They put 55k people into the seats on game days. That would be next to last in the 16 team SEC, it's hardly a selling point. We're interested in UNC for everything BUT football, and we're not comparing them to NC State. Iowa St had better attendance last year and they won half as many games, but we're not looking at Iowa State, either.

How do you get over the extreme lack of investment into their athletics? Last or next to last in the ACC for 5 years in a row is going to be really tough to overcome, especially when you look at their overall profile. I'd rather bring in KU or Duke for their elite basketball and AAU status if we're actually considering our 7th and 8th spots, and if we go beyond 8? 1/2 the big 12 and ASU are on the same level as NC State, but you could at least have a conversation about it at that point. UNC couldn't drag NC St to the B1G, they'd just pass on both of them, and I'm highly confident that we in the SEC would do the same if forced to make a decision.

(06-11-2023 10:22 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(06-11-2023 11:45 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  Its a total mess. Georgia Tech and Louisville fans are not thrilled with not being part of the Magnificent 7 and think they belong over Virginia Tech, NC State and whoever. The whole thing is a clown show.

It's not an exclusive club. If Georgia Tech and Louisville want to vote with the rest and help challenge the grant of rights, saddle up your ponies and let's ride.

We don't know that it's only seven. We only know that seven schools were listed in a recent leak to the public.

(06-11-2023 02:30 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  GT, Louisville and NC State are all dominated by the State Flagship in their individual states. Neither of the P2 has ever taken a clear 2nd fiddle.
....

How 'bout them Aggies.

A&M co-flagship, for sure. Btw, out of those three, only NC State is the true second fiddle (land grant). GT has much more in common with MIT & CalTech than VT or NC State, IMO.
Louisville is a poor man's Duke, IMHO.

Has anyone figured out how anyone gets out of that sticky ACC GOR in the next ten years?

While reading disdainful opinions of ACC schools from totally non-snobby fans of other programs is of course very enlightening, I confess I'm more interested in gathering information. In that quest, facts are even more enlightening. We have been given a fascinating set of them: the seven institutions on the list.

The list shows one school from South Carolina, two each from the states of Florida, North Carolina and Virginia. All public universities except for Miami, which is private.

Seven institutions have decided it's in their mutual interest to push on the ACC's GoR door. This has been actively discussed for some time. Six institutions have decided to act as part of a state pair.

North Carolina and NC State are two of the schools who are acting as a set. Arguing over 'whether' this is the case is pointless--the schools have already told us.

It's fair to say that, realistically, chances are better of NC State snagging a P2 call-up with North Carolina at the end of the day than of the Tar Heels going without a bid. So.

The question now is which P2 league is more likely to invite schools in paired sets. If you think on the basis of evidence that one P2 league is more likely to do this than another, you have clues about ultimate destinations.

(06-11-2023 11:46 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  While reading disdainful opinions of ACC schools from totally non-snobby fans of other programs is of course very enlightening, I confess I'm more interested in gathering information. In that quest, facts are even more enlightening. We have been given a fascinating set of them: the seven institutions on the list.

The list shows one school from South Carolina, two each from the states of Florida, North Carolina and Virginia. All public universities except for Miami, which is private.

Seven institutions have decided it's in their mutual interest to push on the ACC's GoR door. This has been actively discussed for some time. Six institutions have decided to act as part of a state pair.

North Carolina and NC State are two of the schools who are acting as a set. Arguing over 'whether' this is the case is pointless--the schools have already told us.

It's fair to say that, realistically, chances are better of NC State snagging a P2 call-up with North Carolina at the end of the day than of the Tar Heels going without a bid. So.

The question now is which P2 league is more likely to invite schools in paired sets. If you think on the basis of evidence that one P2 league is more likely to do this than another, you have clues about ultimate destinations.

Exactly. Add ESPN's long term contractual rights with both the SEC and ACC, especially the latter, and their destination is clear.

(06-11-2023 11:46 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  While reading disdainful opinions of ACC schools from totally non-snobby fans of other programs is of course very enlightening, I confess I'm more interested in gathering information. In that quest, facts are even more enlightening. We have been given a fascinating set of them: the seven institutions on the list.

The list shows one school from South Carolina, two each from the states of Florida, North Carolina and Virginia. All public universities except for Miami, which is private.

Seven institutions have decided it's in their mutual interest to push on the ACC's GoR door. This has been actively discussed for some time. Six institutions have decided to act as part of a state pair.

North Carolina and NC State are two of the schools who are acting as a set. Arguing over 'whether' this is the case is pointless--the schools have already told us.

It's fair to say that, realistically, chances are better of NC State snagging a P2 call-up with North Carolina at the end of the day than of the Tar Heels going without a bid. So.

The question now is which P2 league is more likely to invite schools in paired sets. If you think on the basis of evidence that one P2 league is more likely to do this than another, you have clues about ultimate destinations.

It is my understanding that the "exploration" is not pushing against the GOR's door, but instead looking into the contracts with ESPN to find avenues to increase revenue.

NC State, UofL, Pitt, and some others would have homes in the Big XII, if left out of the S2. So, if UNC goes B1G, and the SEC passes on NC State, NC State's in the Big XII. With it being at least a horizontal move with security/stability (+ potential future call-up to the S2), it would make UNC's jump at least palatable to the state's powers.

So UNC is free to unhook from NCSU, including, I'd predict, forming separate management. {Kansas has only one Board of Regents that all state institutions' presidents report to.}

The "magnificent" (Magnanimous) seven are not a unified group. They are better seem as two pairs and three individuals all trying to explore if a break of the ACC GOR is possible.

UNC and NCSt desire to move together, likely due to the direction of the NC board of regents.

UVA and VT would like to move together. Again look to the impact of the state government.

UVA and UNC would prefer to stay together.

Miami, FSU and Clemson couldn't care less about where anyone else lands.

None are going to move, without assurances that their needs and partners are met. No conferences are going offer invites or assurances until the GOR is resolved. They are all in a Catch 22. The ACC GOR will stand till the 2030s.


As to why arent GT, Louisville and Pitt not in the group.

1. This isnt a group. It is just a collection of schools that looked at a document
2. They likely conclude that the ACC GOR will hold given Texas had to wait till 1 year out to leave the B12 to go the the SEC
3. They have better things to do than bluster for a bigger piece of the pie
4. Threatening to blown up your house is a terrible negotiating tactic

GT will only give a conference a little more of the ATL market than Kennesaw. ATL is a UGA market or whichever team was brought with their move to ATL. If teams from the SEC or BIG start coming to ATL for game the attendance will shoot up but with opposing fans.

(06-11-2023 10:31 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  Good engineering schools place grads all over. They claim alumni in places that some casual fans might not expect.

(06-11-2023 11:46 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  North Carolina and NC State are two of the schools who are acting as a set. Arguing over 'whether' this is the case is pointless--the schools have already told us.

It's fair to say that, realistically, chances are better of NC State snagging a P2 call-up with North Carolina at the end of the day than of the Tar Heels going without a bid.

You said it way better than I did.

That being said, who knows what the future really holds, the entire landscape could be completely different in 5, 10, 20+ years.