(04-13-2023 09:02 PM)shere khan Wrote:  6 frickin weeks and people are pissed?

FFS. People that bitche about this are irresponsible, lazy and stupid

And lovers of infanticide.

Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

15 weeks is basically the size of your entire hand. They've got a developed brain, fingers and toes. You're sick in the head if you're ok with that. I just had a good friend who had a child at 20 weeks, a micro premie.

(04-14-2023 08:54 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?
15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

15 weeks is basically the size of your entire hand. They've got a developed brain, fingers and toes. You're sick in the head if you're ok with that. I just had a good friend who had a child at 20 weeks, a micro premie.

I would really favor viability outside the womb as the cutoff point, but that's subjective, different for each mother/baby. Some fixed point in the 15-20 week time frame is an objective, measurable approximation.

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

I tend to agree. I do think however 15-20 week is too long. Honestly...If a female is having sex and misses her period she should instantly find out if she might be pregnant. It shouldn't take 15 weeks to figure this out. I wonder how it came to the 15-20 week number in the first place. Maybe that was necessary decades ago but with todays technology that does not seem necessary.

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

I really don't see why we should have to go past the 12 week mark. If a woman doesn't know she is pregnant at 12 weeks she has some serious mental issues.

(04-14-2023 09:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:54 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?
15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

15 weeks is basically the size of your entire hand. They've got a developed brain, fingers and toes. You're sick in the head if you're ok with that. I just had a good friend who had a child at 20 weeks, a micro premie.

I would really favor viability outside the womb as the cutoff point, but that's subjective, different for each mother/baby. Some fixed point in the 15-20 week time frame is an objective, measurable approximation.

NO child can survive outside the womb on their own.

This is just put DeSantis in a box. It's almost as if the "powers" to be in Florida are trying to do this on "purpose". Sign or Veto and he is done as far as running for POTUS in this cycle unless he can do Jedi mind tricks. This is not an issue that you want to deal with running for POTUS due to it's volatility.

(04-14-2023 09:17 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  This is just put DeSantis in a box. It's almost as if the "powers" to be in Florida are trying to do this on "purpose". Sign or Veto and he is done as far as running for POTUS in this cycle unless he can do Jedi mind tricks. This is not an issue that you want to deal with running for POTUS due to it's volatility.

If he vetoes, he can't get the republican nomination. If he signs, he can't win the general.

(04-14-2023 09:15 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

I really don't see why we should have to go past the 12 week mark. If a woman doesn't know she is pregnant at 12 weeks she has some serious mental issues.

I think 10 to 12 weeks is reasonable also. It is a poor commentary on America that we have ANY unwanted pregnancies in the first place. The lack of personal responsibility on this issue is glaring despite medicine giving us damn near perfect means of contraception. We are not living in the 50's anymore. If you are getting pregnant without wanting a child you are pretty much an irresponsible person. The outliers in this are statistically close to zero.

(04-14-2023 09:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:17 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  This is just put DeSantis in a box. It's almost as if the "powers" to be in Florida are trying to do this on "purpose". Sign or Veto and he is done as far as running for POTUS in this cycle unless he can do Jedi mind tricks. This is not an issue that you want to deal with running for POTUS due to it's volatility.

If he vetoes, he can't get the republican nomination. If he signs, he can't win the general.

https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/statu...5408272384

MOOT POINT

(04-14-2023 09:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:17 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  This is just put DeSantis in a box. It's almost as if the "powers" to be in Florida are trying to do this on "purpose". Sign or Veto and he is done as far as running for POTUS in this cycle unless he can do Jedi mind tricks. This is not an issue that you want to deal with running for POTUS due to it's volatility.

If he vetoes, he can't get the republican nomination. If he signs, he can't win the general.

Not gonna win even if he doesn't sign it, Owl

R's need to stop playing scared & play

(04-14-2023 09:23 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:15 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

I really don't see why we should have to go past the 12 week mark. If a woman doesn't know she is pregnant at 12 weeks she has some serious mental issues.

I think 10 to 12 weeks is reasonable also. It is a poor commentary on America that we have ANY unwanted pregnancies in the first place. The lack of personal responsibility on this issue is glaring despite medicine giving us damn near perfect means of contraception. We are not living in the 50's anymore. If you are getting pregnant without wanting a child you are pretty much an irresponsible person. The outliers in this are statistically close to zero.

Plus even the strictest pro-life laws make exceptions for rape, incest, etc.

(04-14-2023 09:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:17 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  This is just put DeSantis in a box. It's almost as if the "powers" to be in Florida are trying to do this on "purpose". Sign or Veto and he is done as far as running for POTUS in this cycle unless he can do Jedi mind tricks. This is not an issue that you want to deal with running for POTUS due to it's volatility.

If he vetoes, he can't get the republican nomination. If he signs, he can't win the general.

The only option I see for him would be to just not sign the bill and allow it become law. There is that loophole that he might could use effectively in some manner if he decided to run for POTUS.

(04-14-2023 09:30 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:17 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  This is just put DeSantis in a box. It's almost as if the "powers" to be in Florida are trying to do this on "purpose". Sign or Veto and he is done as far as running for POTUS in this cycle unless he can do Jedi mind tricks. This is not an issue that you want to deal with running for POTUS due to it's volatility.

If he vetoes, he can't get the republican nomination. If he signs, he can't win the general.

The only option I see for him would be to just not sign the bill and allow it become law. There is that loophole that he might could use effectively in some manner if he decided to run for POTUS.

(04-14-2023 08:54 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

15 weeks is basically the size of your entire hand. They've got a developed brain, fingers and toes. You're sick in the head if you're ok with that. I just had a good friend who had a child at 20 weeks, a micro premie.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the idea, but a pregnancy test won't even turn up positive until about 4 weeks. Reasonable suspicion after a missed period could be at 5 weeks. That's if her cycle is normal and consistent at 28 days. The gestational clock starts the day after the previous period, not at ovulation or conception. I'm all for it, but it might be too early for majority support.

(04-14-2023 09:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:54 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?
15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

15 weeks is basically the size of your entire hand. They've got a developed brain, fingers and toes. You're sick in the head if you're ok with that. I just had a good friend who had a child at 20 weeks, a micro premie.

I would really favor viability outside the womb as the cutoff point, but that's subjective, different for each mother/baby. Some fixed point in the 15-20 week time frame is an objective, measurable approximation.

the beauty of federalism ...
you can move ...
to a liberal state ...
and revel in this gruesome procedure ...
up until birth ...

VOTE WITH YOUR FEET

(04-14-2023 09:27 AM)green Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:17 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  This is just put DeSantis in a box. It's almost as if the "powers" to be in Florida are trying to do this on "purpose". Sign or Veto and he is done as far as running for POTUS in this cycle unless he can do Jedi mind tricks. This is not an issue that you want to deal with running for POTUS due to it's volatility.

If he vetoes, he can't get the republican nomination. If he signs, he can't win the general.

https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/statu...5408272384

MOOT POINT

Not only is this a bad bill due to the 6 week time frame...signing it in the dead of night makes the optics of this even worse. DeSantis just let us know that he probably will not be running for POTUS.

(04-14-2023 09:31 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:54 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

15 weeks is basically the size of your entire hand. They've got a developed brain, fingers and toes. You're sick in the head if you're ok with that. I just had a good friend who had a child at 20 weeks, a micro premie.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the idea, but a pregnancy test won't even turn up positive until about 4 weeks. Reasonable suspicion after a missed period could be at 5 weeks. That's if her cycle is normal and consistent at 28 days. The gestational clock starts the day after the previous period, not at ovulation or conception. I'm all for it, but it might be too early for majority support.

I agree. I wonder what idiot came up with this time frame? It's just not reasonable by any scientific measure. I could see 9 or 10 weeks ...but 6 weeks? No.

The 15 week abortion bill hasn't even been heard by the FL Supreme Court, so this can't become law yet.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk