(02-05-2023 01:55 PM)World Wide Swag Wrote:  If I'm the SEC I'd jump at the chance to add Duke as a tag-a-long with UNC down the road. The SEC already has nine premier football programs that will cannibalize each other every year, they don't need to add Clemson or Miami or FSU.

This was my reasoning. As in the case of FSU, UM and Clemson, they are in markets that are already covered in the SEC. The pair of UNC-Duke brings a new market, boost the SEC’s basketball rep and gives the rest of the SEC someone to beat up on.

(02-05-2023 11:04 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Duke vs. North Carolina is a highly unusual rivalry men's basketball rivalry, one that is significantly different than more conventional rivalries (for example Texas vs. Oklahoma in football).

With Duke and UNC, we have:

Private university vs. public university.

Both schools located within the same general geographic area (the Triangle).

A smallish old-school gym (Cameron Indoor) on the one hand and a massive newish arena (Dean E. Smith Student Activities Center) on the other

The contrasts are noteworthy. And on top of this, there are the "cultural/racial" historical dynamics. UNC offered a fully integrated staff, roster and fan base long before Duke did. And now with the Duke program fully integrated — and with Duke University itself offering a major international student population (seen clearly when the Blue Demons play at Cameron) ... the historical element becomes all the more interesting.

The only men's hoop rivalry somewhat similar is Kentucky (a state school men's basketball program that successfully overcame some uncomfortable "racial" elements in the 1960s/70s) vs. Louisville (a "city school" hoops program that integrated its coaches, players and fan base effectively and quickly back in the day).

As such, having Duke and UNC in the same league and playing twice yearly is hugely valuable — and always anticipated by this Tar Heel fan.

Congrats to the Blue Demons for the victory Saturday.

With that in mind, do you see Louisville as a viable SEC invite option, and where in that pecking order would you place them compared to other ACC schools as potential SEC invitees?

(02-05-2023 01:55 PM)World Wide Swag Wrote:  If I'm the SEC I'd jump at the chance to add Duke as a tag-a-long with UNC down the road. The SEC already has nine premier football programs that will cannibalize each other every year, they don't need to add Clemson or Miami or FSU.

It's not about cannibalizing wins, it's about fan engagement, enthusiasm, and how it affects the media deal. Based upon what we saw this past year, I'd say that FSU is the only non B1G school that I'd definitely want to add to the SEC. They pulled 7m viewers twice against SEC competition, they sell a ton of tickets to their games, they have huge fan enthusiasm...and all this in spite of not being particularly good lately. Clemson sells tickets, and in the past they've shown they can bring the ratings, but it didn't happen this past year. They're probably about revenue neutral and they don't expand our geographical footprint, but they win a LOT and also recently so they'd make a good 2nd for FSU. But UNC is probably better, they bring a new, adjacent state and they carry it all by themselves. They're great where we are weakest, and their football is improving. The real question to me will be, do we take FSU and UNC then stop, or do we also take Clemson + a 4th (Miami? UVA? GT? KU?)? If it was today I'd say that we might just add 2, or perhaps even the top 3 and just wait to see what comes up down the road, but who knows what the landscape will look like in the 2030s?

(02-05-2023 02:06 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 01:42 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 12:29 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 10:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  When Maryland departed North Carolina's new AD, Cunningham, approached Mike Slive wanting to know if further defections happened in the ACC and North Carolina needed a new home could they come to the SEC and wanted to know if the SEC would also take Duke. Slive allegedly said yes. Not much has changed.

The declaration that this realignment would be solely about football, will likely be put to rest in the final moves. I don't expect Kansas, Duke, or Virginia to be left on the table. When the Big 12 and PAC both entertain Gonzaga it is a clear indication that those in the know believe basketball will be eventually freed liked football was in 1983. If the SEC took UNC, Duke, Kansas and Virginia then UNC and Virginia would fulfill a mid tier position in football, and Duke and Kansas would join Vanderbilt as relief in tightly wound divisions full of football might

Now I'm not making a declaration that the SEC winds up with them, but I don't think if UNC wanted Duke as a travel partner that the SEC presidents would say no.

bolded - obviously I agree.

And setting aside Stanford's academics for a moment, I think those 4 schools - NC, Kansas, Duke, and Virginia - to be the best (non-SEC) adds for the B10.

This is not to say that the SEC couldn't still get 4 other solid adds from the ACC - FSU, and 3 of Clemson, VT, GT, NC state, or Miami.

yes, it would mean that the B10 doesn't get further south of NC, and that the espn would keep much of florida and georgia to itself.

And if the SEC does get NC, swap in Stanford.

But regardless, I do still think it would be a very good move for the B10.

ESPN is not what it was. I'm unsure if they'll even be in the running for the next SEC deal in 2034. We will go to the place(s) that gives us the best combination of money and exposure. Today that's ESPN. In 2034? I can see it still being ESPN, but other potential suitors that I can see today are Amazon, Comcast, CBS, Fox, and Apple. And by 2034 there could be others. What you really meant was "The SEC will keep much of Georgia and Florida".

No, I said what I meant.

The P5 Georgia and Florida schools are in the ACC and the SEC. Both of which have espn as their media partner.

I didn't say exactly what I meant. What I really meant was "It's a mistake to assume that ESPN will still be a dominant force in CFB in 10-15 years, but it's not a mistake to think that the SEC will still be a dominant force". You could be right, but the SEC's dominance does not rely upon ESPN.

(02-05-2023 02:09 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 01:55 PM)World Wide Swag Wrote:  If I'm the SEC I'd jump at the chance to add Duke as a tag-a-long with UNC down the road. The SEC already has nine premier football programs that will cannibalize each other every year, they don't need to add Clemson or Miami or FSU.

It's not about cannibalizing wins, it's about fan engagement, enthusiasm, and how it affects the media deal. Based upon what we saw this past year, I'd say that FSU is the only non B1G school that I'd definitely want to add to the SEC. They pulled 7m viewers twice against SEC competition, they sell a ton of tickets to their games, they have huge fan enthusiasm...and all this in spite of not being particularly good lately. Clemson sells tickets, and in the past they've shown they can bring the ratings, but it didn't happen this past year. They're probably about revenue neutral and they don't expand our geographical footprint, but they win a LOT and also recently so they'd make a good 2nd for FSU. But UNC is probably better, they bring a new, adjacent state and they carry it all by themselves. They're great where we are weakest, and their football is improving. The real question to me will be, do we take FSU and UNC then stop, or do we also take Clemson + a 4th (Miami? UVA? GT? KU?)? If it was today I'd say that we might just add 2, or perhaps even the top 3 and just wait to see what comes up down the road, but who knows what the landscape will look like in the 2030s?

Virginia Tech actually is closer to the SEC norms, carries more of Virginia which has only 1 million in population less than North Carolina, and has better attendance. The question is if we move without Duke and UNC's companion do they insist upon Virginia coming with them? In that case it's yes to Virginia because of academics, state flagship and historical reasons, and because they are very close to Va Tech's ratings in their state and an SEC brand might fix that. To me, Clemson is the most SEC like school out there besides FSU, but in a state of 5 million do they make the cut at #4? The argument for is Alabama and Auburn also in a state of 5 million but both in the top 11 in viewership nationally. Clemson/USC isn't AU/AL but Clemson vs an SEC slate is easily 5M plus with the better schools and with a ceiling of 10M vs the upper echelon.


And Bryan, you would need to go to 28 to get Louisville in. Florida State, North Carolina, Clemson, Virginia are the first four. Miami, Duke, Georgia Tech, likely Kansas would be next. The last 4 are defensive and academic in nature as all 4 could be of interest to the Big 10. The Big 10 will not be after Louisville, N.C. State, or Virginia Tech.

If we are to get that big a merger at unequal revenue makes much more sense.

(02-05-2023 02:09 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 11:04 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Duke vs. North Carolina is a highly unusual rivalry men's basketball rivalry, one that is significantly different than more conventional rivalries (for example Texas vs. Oklahoma in football).

With Duke and UNC, we have:

Private university vs. public university.

Both schools located within the same general geographic area (the Triangle).

A smallish old-school gym (Cameron Indoor) on the one hand and a massive newish arena (Dean E. Smith Student Activities Center) on the other

The contrasts are noteworthy. And on top of this, there are the "cultural/racial" historical dynamics. UNC offered a fully integrated staff, roster and fan base long before Duke did. And now with the Duke program fully integrated — and with Duke University itself offering a major international student population (seen clearly when the Blue Demons play at Cameron) ... the historical element becomes all the more interesting.

The only men's hoop rivalry somewhat similar is Kentucky (a state school men's basketball program that successfully overcame some uncomfortable "racial" elements in the 1960s/70s) vs. Louisville (a "city school" hoops program that integrated its coaches, players and fan base effectively and quickly back in the day).

As such, having Duke and UNC in the same league and playing twice yearly is hugely valuable — and always anticipated by this Tar Heel fan.

Congrats to the Blue Demons for the victory Saturday.

With that in mind, do you see Louisville as a viable SEC invite option, and where in that pecking order would you place them compared to other ACC schools as potential SEC invitees?

At least for the SEC's Realignment Master Plan, Louisville is like a homeless man's UNC. Ok in football, elite (usually) in basketball = same as UNC. But UNC brings us a new state, UNC is the Flagship instead of #2, NC has 2.4 times the population of Kentucky, and UNC is elite academically (ignoring certain no-show A classes).

I wouldn't say that we would never even consider Louisville, but we'd need to go higher than 20 for them to get into the conversation.

(02-05-2023 02:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 02:09 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 01:55 PM)World Wide Swag Wrote:  If I'm the SEC I'd jump at the chance to add Duke as a tag-a-long with UNC down the road. The SEC already has nine premier football programs that will cannibalize each other every year, they don't need to add Clemson or Miami or FSU.

It's not about cannibalizing wins, it's about fan engagement, enthusiasm, and how it affects the media deal. Based upon what we saw this past year, I'd say that FSU is the only non B1G school that I'd definitely want to add to the SEC. They pulled 7m viewers twice against SEC competition, they sell a ton of tickets to their games, they have huge fan enthusiasm...and all this in spite of not being particularly good lately. Clemson sells tickets, and in the past they've shown they can bring the ratings, but it didn't happen this past year. They're probably about revenue neutral and they don't expand our geographical footprint, but they win a LOT and also recently so they'd make a good 2nd for FSU. But UNC is probably better, they bring a new, adjacent state and they carry it all by themselves. They're great where we are weakest, and their football is improving. The real question to me will be, do we take FSU and UNC then stop, or do we also take Clemson + a 4th (Miami? UVA? GT? KU?)? If it was today I'd say that we might just add 2, or perhaps even the top 3 and just wait to see what comes up down the road, but who knows what the landscape will look like in the 2030s?

Virginia Tech actually is closer to the SEC norms, carries more of Virginia which has only 1 million in population less than North Carolina, and has better attendance. The question is if we move without Duke and UNC's companion do they insist upon Virginia coming with them? In that case it's yes to Virginia because of academics, state flagship and historical reasons, and because they are very close to Va Tech's ratings in their state and an SEC brand might fix that. To me, Clemson is the most SEC like school out there besides FSU, but in a state of 5 million do they make the cut at #4? The argument for is Alabama and Auburn also in a state of 5 million but both in the top 11 in viewership nationally. Clemson/USC isn't AU/AL but Clemson vs an SEC slate is easily 5M plus with the better schools and with a ceiling of 10M vs the upper echelon.

I fully agree with all of this. There was a lot of talk about VT when we joined the SEC, and I think they'd be great. But we don't need 2 in the State, the B1G probably wouldn't take VT, UVA is better in basketball, UVA has a much better rivalry with UNC, and they're superior academically. Realistically, neither is a GREAT add for us, but either is probably acceptable as a 4th.

Hmmmm, VT might just be acceptable to the B1G. We might be destined to split that State. If that's the case then I'd rather have VT.

(02-05-2023 01:58 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 06:57 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 12:34 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Texas and Texas A&M can never be separated...but they were.

Thank God they'll finally be reunited!

I agree...we need the easy W every year.

Is this why Texas is 76-37-5 against you? "Lucyyyyy! You got some splainin' to do!"

(02-05-2023 02:29 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 02:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 02:09 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 01:55 PM)World Wide Swag Wrote:  If I'm the SEC I'd jump at the chance to add Duke as a tag-a-long with UNC down the road. The SEC already has nine premier football programs that will cannibalize each other every year, they don't need to add Clemson or Miami or FSU.

It's not about cannibalizing wins, it's about fan engagement, enthusiasm, and how it affects the media deal. Based upon what we saw this past year, I'd say that FSU is the only non B1G school that I'd definitely want to add to the SEC. They pulled 7m viewers twice against SEC competition, they sell a ton of tickets to their games, they have huge fan enthusiasm...and all this in spite of not being particularly good lately. Clemson sells tickets, and in the past they've shown they can bring the ratings, but it didn't happen this past year. They're probably about revenue neutral and they don't expand our geographical footprint, but they win a LOT and also recently so they'd make a good 2nd for FSU. But UNC is probably better, they bring a new, adjacent state and they carry it all by themselves. They're great where we are weakest, and their football is improving. The real question to me will be, do we take FSU and UNC then stop, or do we also take Clemson + a 4th (Miami? UVA? GT? KU?)? If it was today I'd say that we might just add 2, or perhaps even the top 3 and just wait to see what comes up down the road, but who knows what the landscape will look like in the 2030s?

Virginia Tech actually is closer to the SEC norms, carries more of Virginia which has only 1 million in population less than North Carolina, and has better attendance. The question is if we move without Duke and UNC's companion do they insist upon Virginia coming with them? In that case it's yes to Virginia because of academics, state flagship and historical reasons, and because they are very close to Va Tech's ratings in their state and an SEC brand might fix that. To me, Clemson is the most SEC like school out there besides FSU, but in a state of 5 million do they make the cut at #4? The argument for is Alabama and Auburn also in a state of 5 million but both in the top 11 in viewership nationally. Clemson/USC isn't AU/AL but Clemson vs an SEC slate is easily 5M plus with the better schools and with a ceiling of 10M vs the upper echelon.

I fully agree with all of this. There was a lot of talk about VT when we joined the SEC, and I think they'd be great. But we don't need 2 in the State, the B1G probably wouldn't take VT, UVA is better in basketball, UVA has a much better rivalry with UNC, and they're superior academically. Realistically, neither is a GREAT add for us, but either is probably acceptable as a 4th.

Hmmmm, VT might just be acceptable to the B1G. We might be destined to split that State. If that's the case then I'd rather have VT.

Whether the Big 10 would pick up Virginia Tech or N.C. State will come down to the orthodoxy of AAU as the criteria sans the only permanent exclusion of Notre Dame.

Just a thought, but when it’s said UNC / Duke should never be separated, we are really talking Basketball (and perhaps some other olympic sports).

Not many would care if they didn’t meet each year in football.

So while the B1G I’m sure is happy to have UCLA basketball, would it have been a deal breaker?

Could you have B1G football and B1G Olympic

Football would take UNC plus A N Other, maybe Virginia

But ACC Olympic would keep both, plus Maryland would be back maybe.

Keep Olympic sports regional(ish) keeping fan interest, reducing costs, better for the athletes.

While the money machine that is football is treated as a totally separate entity regards membership.

I’m sure USCLA and UNC/UVA would play additional B1G OOC games to please B1G network, plus returns to please ACC and PAC.

Would NCSU rather have UNC in ACC Olympic if football went to B1G?

Politics, Money and egos may not allow this but maybe football and olympics need a different path moving forward.

(02-04-2023 10:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 09:44 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Tonight Duke and North Carolina played the first of two annual men's basketball games vs. each other. The second will be played as the regular season finale of both teams and Senior Day for North Carolina this year. Duke and North Carolina is to many people the premier men's basketball rivalry, the Michigan/Ohio State rivalry or Iron Bowl of the sport. Last year the teams played in the Final Four and Carolina ended the career of coach Mike Krzyzewski.

Both teams currently play in the ACC. The ACC currently lags way behind the Big Ten and SEC in annual media revenue per school and once the new Big Ten and SEC contracts take effect the gap will widen. Once the ACC Grant of Rights expire, both conferences may potentially view the North Carolina region as a potential growth area as the state of North Carolina is the 9th most populous state in the country, borders SEC territory and would help the Big Ten expand southward.

If you believe this board, the SEC wants North Carolina and doesn't want Duke because they have no football fanbase and the SEC gets what they want, which could lead to North Carolina and Duke being separated. As a big men's basketball fan, I would be really sad to see Duke and Carolina in separate conferences. I saw the old Big East broken up, having Duke and North Carolina split apart would really hurt men's basketball even more. North Carolina-Kentucky would certainly be exciting but they're not ten miles apart and they haven't played each other as many times as Duke-UNC. For the sport, North Carolina and Duke need to be in the same conference and playing twice every year, whether that is in the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big East, or whatever. Don't split them!

When Maryland departed North Carolina's new AD, Cunningham, approached Mike Slive wanting to know if further defections happened in the ACC and North Carolina needed a new home could they come to the SEC and wanted to know if the SEC would also take Duke. Slive allegedly said yes. Not much has changed.

The declaration that this realignment would be solely about football, will likely be put to rest in the final moves. I don't expect Kansas, Duke, or Virginia to be left on the table. When the Big 12 and PAC both entertain Gonzaga it is a clear indication that those in the know believe basketball will be eventually freed liked football was in 1983. If the SEC took UNC, Duke, Kansas and Virginia then UNC and Virginia would fulfill a mid tier position in football, and Duke and Kansas would join Vanderbilt as relief in tightly wound divisions full of football might

Now I'm not making a declaration that the SEC winds up with them, but I don't think if UNC wanted Duke as a travel partner that the SEC presidents would say no.

Every time that you tell that story JR, you always fail to mention that right before Cunningham was hired that some very powerful folks had been courting Delany to take the job and were offering some serious dollars to get Jimmy come home.
The point is Delany had regular communications with people in Chapel Hill on a continuing basis two or three levels above Bubba's pay grade. Conversations with others went in directions other than Birmingham, and still do.

(02-05-2023 03:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 10:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 09:44 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Tonight Duke and North Carolina played the first of two annual men's basketball games vs. each other. The second will be played as the regular season finale of both teams and Senior Day for North Carolina this year. Duke and North Carolina is to many people the premier men's basketball rivalry, the Michigan/Ohio State rivalry or Iron Bowl of the sport. Last year the teams played in the Final Four and Carolina ended the career of coach Mike Krzyzewski.

Both teams currently play in the ACC. The ACC currently lags way behind the Big Ten and SEC in annual media revenue per school and once the new Big Ten and SEC contracts take effect the gap will widen. Once the ACC Grant of Rights expire, both conferences may potentially view the North Carolina region as a potential growth area as the state of North Carolina is the 9th most populous state in the country, borders SEC territory and would help the Big Ten expand southward.

If you believe this board, the SEC wants North Carolina and doesn't want Duke because they have no football fanbase and the SEC gets what they want, which could lead to North Carolina and Duke being separated. As a big men's basketball fan, I would be really sad to see Duke and Carolina in separate conferences. I saw the old Big East broken up, having Duke and North Carolina split apart would really hurt men's basketball even more. North Carolina-Kentucky would certainly be exciting but they're not ten miles apart and they haven't played each other as many times as Duke-UNC. For the sport, North Carolina and Duke need to be in the same conference and playing twice every year, whether that is in the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big East, or whatever. Don't split them!

When Maryland departed North Carolina's new AD, Cunningham, approached Mike Slive wanting to know if further defections happened in the ACC and North Carolina needed a new home could they come to the SEC and wanted to know if the SEC would also take Duke. Slive allegedly said yes. Not much has changed.

The declaration that this realignment would be solely about football, will likely be put to rest in the final moves. I don't expect Kansas, Duke, or Virginia to be left on the table. When the Big 12 and PAC both entertain Gonzaga it is a clear indication that those in the know believe basketball will be eventually freed liked football was in 1983. If the SEC took UNC, Duke, Kansas and Virginia then UNC and Virginia would fulfill a mid tier position in football, and Duke and Kansas would join Vanderbilt as relief in tightly wound divisions full of football might

Now I'm not making a declaration that the SEC winds up with them, but I don't think if UNC wanted Duke as a travel partner that the SEC presidents would say no.

Every time that you tell that story JR, you always fail to mention that right before Cunningham was hired that some very powerful folks had been courting Delany to take the job and were offering some serious dollars to get Jimmy come home.
The point is Delany had regular communications with people in Chapel Hill on a continuing basis two or three levels above Bubba's pay grade. Conversations with others went in more than one direction than Birmingham and still do.

Donors influence athletic decisions, not academicians. No business pisses off its investors and customer base, ever! Well, at least not if it wants to survive.

Josh Mancuso enters Carolina/Duke territory!

(02-04-2023 10:01 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Would the B1G take them as a duo?

I think their first preference would be UNC & Virginia, but if they had to take Duke to get UNC, I can imagine it happening.

Indeed, that might resolve the "Washington plus who?" question (and it remains possible that different Big Ten schools have different ideas on a West Coast school to pair with Washington) into Washingto and UNC, Duke & Virginia.

(02-05-2023 03:27 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 10:01 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Would the B1G take them as a duo?

I think their first preference would be UNC & Virginia, but if they had to take Duke to get UNC, I can imagine it happening.

Indeed, that might resolve the "Washington plus who?" question (and it remains possible that different Big Ten schools have different ideas on a West Coast school to pair with Washington) into Washingto and UNC, Duke & Virginia.

20 team Big Ten: North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, and Florida State. Screw the West Coast (well other than UCLA and USC of course:)

(02-05-2023 04:36 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  Duke isnt getting left behind just because they suck at football. The Big Ten or SEC would love being associated with them just for their prestige as a university. If you dont think that youre crazy. Maybe one day Duke decides to bow out of big time athletics but that hasnt happened yet.

Duke Blue Devils football
2022 record: 9-4
2nd in ACC Coastal
Bowl game winner 30-13 over UCF

(02-05-2023 03:35 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 03:27 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 10:01 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Would the B1G take them as a duo?

I think their first preference would be UNC & Virginia, but if they had to take Duke to get UNC, I can imagine it happening.

Indeed, that might resolve the "Washington plus who?" question (and it remains possible that different Big Ten schools have different ideas on a West Coast school to pair with Washington) into Washingto and UNC, Duke & Virginia.

20 team Big Ten: North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, and Florida State. Screw the West Coast (well other than UCLA and USC of course:)

If not for the current GoR, I think that's absolutely possible.

Taking FSU without a travelling partner could be an issue though. I think they lean slightly more to the SEC than the B10 for that and other reasons.

I think NC is 50/50 and I think Duke and VA have a better chance of a B10 invite than an SEC one.

So I think the more interesting question is:

If VA and Duke joined the B10; and if FSU, Clemson, and VT joined the SEC; which conference would NC say yes to, if invited by both?

(02-05-2023 03:06 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Donors influence athletic decisions, not academicians. No business pisses off its investors and customer base, ever! Well, at least not if it wants to survive.

'Academicians'? You mean scholars?
So named because scholars work at... schools?

Donors have influence; presidents and ADs decide. Presidents and ADs usually have a specialized background in university administration, as we know.

Rest assured that presidents pay attention to faculty, too. The announcement of a new stadium funded by well-heeled donors does a president little good if the president then fails a confidence vote taken by the faculty.

(02-05-2023 04:23 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 03:06 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Donors influence athletic decisions, not academicians. No business pisses off its investors and customer base, ever! Well, at least not if it wants to survive.

'Academicians'? You mean scholars?
So named because scholars work at... schools?

Donors have influence; presidents and ADs decide. Presidents and ADs usually have a specialized background in university administration, as we know.

No not really. Look at Texas and Oklahoma as recent examples. They went with donor preference, not the desires of faculty, or likely even the president. The Board of Trustees, Regents, Governors, whatever you wish to call them usually has some major contributors in positions to express their desires.

The President has a tremendous amount of control, but that control is tempered by State and Donor interests. Fans are the last consideration, but an important one. They buy the tickets, they attend the games, they watch on TV. Alienate them and what do you have to sell?

I understand your vantage point, but it is not the only one and the dance goes on. Fans don't want games in Minneapolis any more than many on the ACC board here like games in Boston or Syracuse, especially when they can have games in Athens, Knoxville, Gainesville, and Columbia etc. A.D.'s know this and they see the athletic donors more than the President. When major athletic donors also donate campus facilities dedicated to academic pursuits the president finds his or herself for more pliable and compromising, do they not?

(02-05-2023 03:35 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 03:27 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 10:01 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Would the B1G take them as a duo?

I think their first preference would be UNC & Virginia, but if they had to take Duke to get UNC, I can imagine it happening.

Indeed, that might resolve the "Washington plus who?" question (and it remains possible that different Big Ten schools have different ideas on a West Coast school to pair with Washington) into Washingto and UNC, Duke & Virginia.

20 team Big Ten: North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, and Florida State. Screw the West Coast (well other than UCLA and USC of course:)

I don't know that the Big Ten offers in the mid-30s ... that's enough time for their academic snobbery to evolve, but time to evolve is no guarantee that the evolution happens. And I would not be surprised if FSU is not available for the Big Ten at that time, being SEC bound instead.