I think of them as just 1 of the 10 FBS conferences.

(01-17-2023 09:51 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  I think this discussion ignores NIL and the impact over the sport.

Miami is not a P2 (yet) but is conceivably Top5 in NIL deals and talent acquisition. If this "Show me the money" strategy eventually works, then NIL money will be more important than media deal money.

The new Power in College Football is NIL Support.

Miami got off to a hot start but has suffered some noteworthy attrition this cycle. NIL seems made for Miami...but there's actually no reason that most of the big brand programs can't match or out-resource them on NIL deals, just like everything else.

There currently are five all-sports "power" leagues. Once the Big Ten and SEC add their respective two, I will view it as a P2 and a M3 ("M" for "major"). And as many of us have noted, "power" as it defines football is based on about 95 percent resources (budgets, coaching salaries, fan donations/attendance, facilities, TV contracts, etc.)

"Power" in other sports is defined strongly by results.

My definition of P5 relates to the CFP payout for each conference. Currently, the ‘P5’ conferences essentially gets the same payout and there is a big drop in payment with the other conferences.

Once the new distribution is agreed upon for the expanded playoffs, we may see more of a separation amongst the current P5.

(01-17-2023 10:01 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 09:51 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  I think this discussion ignores NIL and the impact over the sport.

Miami is not a P2 (yet) but is conceivably Top5 in NIL deals and talent acquisition. If this "Show me the money" strategy eventually works, then NIL money will be more important than media deal money.

The new Power in College Football is NIL Support.

Miami got off to a hot start but has suffered some noteworthy attrition this cycle. NIL seems made for Miami...but there's actually no reason that most of the big brand programs can't match or out-resource them.

I don't think the current athlete cares as much about facilities anymore. Its all about the bag. Playing at Hard Rock Stadium is a lot more tolerable if I have a couple million in my pocket.

The Jaden Rashada bidding war between the Canes and Gators ended with the Gator Collective on the hook for $13M they didn't have. For the bid to get that high, Canes offer had to be pretty high too.

Miami has had a history of sketchy people showering Miami players with money and gifts. I assume there is always going to be some Lifewallet guy or Nevin Shapiro wannabe that will throw down a couple million for bragging rights on social media.

Institutionally Miami hasn't supported the program.
Boosters now don't have to filter the money through the institution, they can go directly to players.

(01-17-2023 10:19 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 10:01 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 09:51 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  I think this discussion ignores NIL and the impact over the sport.

Miami is not a P2 (yet) but is conceivably Top5 in NIL deals and talent acquisition. If this "Show me the money" strategy eventually works, then NIL money will be more important than media deal money.

The new Power in College Football is NIL Support.

Miami got off to a hot start but has suffered some noteworthy attrition this cycle. NIL seems made for Miami...but there's actually no reason that most of the big brand programs can't match or out-resource them.

I don't think the current athlete cares as much about facilities anymore. Its all about the bag. Playing at Hard Rock Stadium is a lot more tolerable if I have a couple million in my pocket.

The Jaden Rashada bidding war between the Canes and Gators ended with the Gator Collective on the hook for $13M they didn't have. For the bid to get that high, Canes offer had to be pretty high too.

Miami has had a history of sketchy people showering Miami players with money and gifts. I assume there is always going to be some Lifewallet guy or Nevin Shapiro wannabe that will throw down a couple million for bragging rights on social media.

Institutionally Miami hasn't supported the program.
Boosters now don't have to filter the money through the institution, they can go directly to players.

I meant out-resource them on everything including NIL deals. And it's not just Jaden. It was Jean and Lew too. Perhaps more to come. And whether a ~5* kid like Jaden's price is $3M or $13M, Miami isn't going to out-bid a top school. Miami's advantage continues to be having elite athletes in their backyard. And they still do have a heckuva class.

There's always going to be some decommits...but Miami has take a pretty good tumble for all of the NIL talk and expecting Cristobal to get a nice recruiting bump. And while facilities perhaps aren't as critical as past years...it still matters along with everything else that an 18 year old wants to experience at college.

(01-17-2023 10:03 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  There currently are five all-sports "power" leagues. Once the Big Ten and SEC add their respective two, I will view it as a P2 and a M3 ("M" for "major"). And as many of us have noted, "power" as it defines football is based on about 95 percent resources (budgets, coaching salaries, fan donations/attendance, facilities, TV contracts, etc.)

"Power" in other sports is defined strongly by results.

Question: Would you imagine or think it's possible that one of the "M" conferences could make their way into the "P" group, or that one of the G5 conferences could make their way into the "M" group at some point in the future?

Power Five

Even though there are differences between conferences among the P5, the biggest gap is between the P5 and everyone else.

IMO as of 2024 we will have a P2, an M3 and a G5.

(01-17-2023 12:54 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  .

Regarding a possible "P6," there could be a "P6" quality conference in certain sports, or over a certain period of time. For example, the AAC was a "P6" quality football conference in 2019 by most definitions, but wasn't able to maintain "P6" quality in 2020.

Interesting. The way I think of 2019 is that in terms of quality, we had a P4, an M2 (AAC and ACC) and then a G4.

There was a big gap between the M2 and both the Ps and the Gs.

(01-17-2023 04:59 AM)goofus Wrote:  That's a good way to describe it

There is P5 made up of 2 Super Powers (SP2) and 3 Mid-Powers (MP3)

The definition of "power" in this context is rather malleable. Sometimes it relates to a conference's ability to dominate on the field, and sometimes to a conference's ability to generate advertising revenue for a network. Prowess and marketability don't always coincide. Each conference, whether considered a super-power or power, has only one or two dominant teams, a couple of others that are perhaps competent, and the rest of are just along for the ride. A few are perennial doormats, living off the largess of their conference as legacies. Teams from power conferences often beat teams from super-power conferences. Teams from G5 conferences beat teams from power and super-power conferences from time to time. Fan interest ebbs and flows in consonance with expectations and perceived success.

"Power" is ephemeral, often hinging on the presence of an exceptional coach or player. When that coach moves, retires, or dies, when that uniquely talented QB opts to enter the draft or (heaven forbid) actually graduates, or when corruption rears its ugly head, a team's fortunes can take a nose-dive. Everything is in flux. Luck plays a part. Today's champion can be tomorrow's bad joke.

It varies by sports. There's a P5 currently in football and P6 in basketball. I can see football dropping down to a P4 if conferences pretty much are usually given the 4 auto bid byes out of the first round.

To D2 schools, it’s like P26

There's a P2, a middle 3 and everybody else fighting for scraps.

(01-17-2023 11:19 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  Power Five

Even though there are differences between conferences among the P5, the biggest gap is between the P5 and everyone else.

Is a $30M to $40M per year gap not enough to differentiate the Big 10 and SEC from the next tier (P12/ACC/B12)? That's what we're looking at pretty soon. That would be bigger than the current gap between the P12/ACC/B12 and the AAC.

SP2
P3
MM3
G2
HiFCS-4
MidFCS-5
LowFCS-4
LVRaidersFootball

I go with P7. All AAC and MWC can do is grab the top schools from the MAC, SBC and FCS, and they will be able to beat many of the P5 schools. Each of the power 5 conferences have schools who are actually G5 programs in football.

(01-17-2023 10:53 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 10:03 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  There currently are five all-sports "power" leagues. Once the Big Ten and SEC add their respective two, I will view it as a P2 and a M3 ("M" for "major"). And as many of us have noted, "power" as it defines football is based on about 95 percent resources (budgets, coaching salaries, fan donations/attendance, facilities, TV contracts, etc.)

"Power" in other sports is defined strongly by results.

Question: Would you imagine or think it's possible that one of the "M" conferences could make their way into the "P" group, or that one of the G5 conferences could make their way into the "M" group at some point in the future?

Hypothetically: IF (I don't see this happening) the P2 add no more schools (standing pat at 16) and the Big 12 adds, say, 10 to 12 of the best all-round schools from the Pac and ACC ... then we might have a P3. But again, that's a huge stretch of thought.

As to a "Group" league elevating to "power" with exclusively "group" members as we know them today ... no. But IF (again, a massive "if") the SEC and Big Ten grow to, say, 22 to 24 teams (instead of staying at 16 as with my previous hypothetical), and the Big 12 does likewise, we could have a fourth "major all-sports league" comprised of a combo of current P and G members. In that scenario, we could have a P2 and a M2 (instead of the expected M3).

(01-17-2023 10:03 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  There currently are five all-sports "power" leagues. Once the Big Ten and SEC add their respective two, I will view it as a P2 and a M3 ("M" for "major"). And as many of us have noted, "power" as it defines football is based on about 95 percent resources (budgets, coaching salaries, fan donations/attendance, facilities, TV contracts, etc.)

"Power" in other sports is defined strongly by results.

So Vanderbilt will be a Power football school and Florida State a major?

In basketball, Northwestern a Power school and UNC a major?

Interesting, I wonder if recruits will see it that way as well.

(01-17-2023 12:48 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 10:53 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 10:03 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  There currently are five all-sports "power" leagues. Once the Big Ten and SEC add their respective two, I will view it as a P2 and a M3 ("M" for "major"). And as many of us have noted, "power" as it defines football is based on about 95 percent resources (budgets, coaching salaries, fan donations/attendance, facilities, TV contracts, etc.)

"Power" in other sports is defined strongly by results.

Question: Would you imagine or think it's possible that one of the "M" conferences could make their way into the "P" group, or that one of the G5 conferences could make their way into the "M" group at some point in the future?

Hypothetically: IF (I don't see this happening) the P2 add no more schools (standing pat at 16) and the Big 12 adds, say, 10 to 12 of the best all-round schools from the Pac and ACC ... then we might have a P3. But again, that's a huge stretch of thought.

As to a "Group" league elevating to "power" with exclusively "group" members as we know them today ... no. But IF (again, a massive "if") the SEC and Big Ten grow to, say, 22 to 24 teams (instead of staying at 16 as with my previous hypothetical), and the Big 12 does likewise, we could have a fourth "major all-sports league" comprised of a combo of current P and G members. In that scenario, we could have a P2 and a M2 (instead of the expected M3).

None of the M tier can move up by addition/expansion alone. The top of the M conferences will never be as high as the top of the P2. The only way an M conference can reach P2 tier consideration is if there is less drop off from top-to-bottom compared to the P2 such that the mean is similar.

The only way that happens is if the M conferences did a “best of”. And still that would be less than P2 but would be more like a P2-M1-G7 situation.