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DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
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TIGERCITY Offline
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Post: #1
DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
This is about not giving back all the government's documents.... still? I mean the Stable Genius has said this government property is really his... although it's not. Also whether the DOJ is requesting .... at this late date....a civil or criminal contempt charge. See how this one plays out.

12-08-2022 07:19 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #2
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
If Trump acquired the documents while he was still POTUS, he could declassify them at will. He didn’t have to sign anything, didn’t even have to announce it or tell anyone. Just wanting them to be declassified is all that was needed.

The only problem would be if a document was created (and classified) *after* Biden became POTUS, and somehow Trump got a hold of it, and held on to it. I seriously doubt that is the case here, but I guess we’ll see.
12-08-2022 07:28 PM
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Eagleaidaholic Offline
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Post: #3
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
It was all junk files in a basement. Who cares? Much safer in Mar A Lago than where they are now. Anybody can walk in there and look at them. Trump will be the first POTUS to not be able to have a library because they won't let him have any documents.
12-08-2022 07:34 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #4
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 07:28 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  If Trump acquired the documents while he was still POTUS, he could declassify them at will. He didn’t have to sign anything, didn’t even have to announce it or tell anyone. Just wanting them to be declassified is all that was needed.

So you subscribe to the Jedi mind declassify theory? I agree that as POTUS he has near unilateral ability to declassify (stuff under the Atomic Secrets Act he cannot do so unilaterally), but I dont think the old adage of "cogito ergo sum" would hold in this avenue. I would surmise that there must/should be some evidence of the act.

And, iirc the subpoena is for 'all documents marked classified', which by the terms sweeps up even the magical Jedi declassified stuff. Im assuming the subpoena in question is the one central to the Mar A Lago saga, and has been released in various filings by the DOJ.

Quote:The only problem would be if a document was created (and classified) *after* Biden became POTUS, and somehow Trump got a hold of it, and held on to it. I seriously doubt that is the case here, but I guess we’ll see.

I dont think the actual wording of the subpoena supports the above position.

Edited to add: Is that actually the Special Prosecutor's account noting the request by the DOJ, or someone spoofing his name? Kind of a wild step for a special prosecutor to drop this via twitter if it actually is him....
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2022 07:46 PM by tanqtonic.)
12-08-2022 07:41 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #5
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 07:34 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Trump will be the first POTUS to not be able to have a library because they won't let him have any documents.
Presidential libraries didn’t become a thing until after FDR had died. They really are nothing more than monuments to the vanity/ego of the most vain/egotistical people on earth. I’d be more than okay with it if we never get another one.

With that said, of course this is all a political attack on an ex-President who is deeply hated by the current DOJ leadership. It is a very dangerous precedent and someday the Trump-haters are going to regret having established it, when — not if, but when — it is turned against an ex-President that they like.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2022 07:46 PM by Native Georgian.)
12-08-2022 07:44 PM
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Crebman Offline
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Post: #6
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
My guess…..Trump has some documentation that would reveal some disgusting illegal activities that have been going on in Washington.

The alphabet agencies thought they would confiscate the stuff with the Mar a lago raid…….

…….they didn’t find what they were looking for - they are back fishing some more.

As hard as the alphabets are pushing this - must be some really disgusting stuff.
12-08-2022 07:51 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 07:44 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(12-08-2022 07:34 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Trump will be the first POTUS to not be able to have a library because they won't let him have any documents.
Presidential libraries didn’t become a thing until after FDR had died. They really are nothing more than monuments to the vanity/ego of the most vain/egotistical people on earth. I’d be more than okay with it if we never get another one.

With that said, of course this is all a political attack on an ex-President who is deeply hated by the current DOJ leadership. It is a very dangerous precedent and someday the Trump-haters are going to regret having established it, when — not if, but when — it is turned against an ex-President that they like.

Some of us think that it should be a fairly prudent and bright line for Presidents to not be allowed to load up the moving van full of top secret SCIF classified information and ship it home to themselves as a lasting memento to themselves of their time in the office. And subsequently treat such items their own little personal shrine nuggets.

Unfortunately enforcing that rule also runs into 'political issues' no matter which way you slice it.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2022 07:53 PM by tanqtonic.)
12-08-2022 07:52 PM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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Post: #8
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 07:51 PM)Crebman Wrote:  My guess…..Trump has some documentation that would reveal some disgusting illegal activities that have been going on in Washington.

The alphabet agencies thought they would confiscate the stuff with the Mar a lago raid…….

…….they didn’t find what they were looking for - they are back fishing some more.

As hard as the alphabets are pushing this - must be some really disgusting stuff.

Probably pictures of Paul Pelosi in edible underwear.
12-08-2022 08:00 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #9
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 07:41 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(12-08-2022 07:28 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  If Trump acquired the documents while he was still POTUS, he could declassify them at will. He didn’t have to sign anything, didn’t even have to announce it or tell anyone. Just wanting them to be declassified is all that was needed.
So you subscribe to the Jedi mind declassify theory?
LOL at the description, but yes, absolutely I do.

Quote:I would surmise that there must/should be some evidence of the act.
Agree to disagree. But if there must be “some evidence”, then the fact that an ex-POTUS was keeping a document at his personal residence indicates that he considered it to be declassified.

Quote:iirc the subpoena is for 'all documents marked classified', which by the terms sweeps up even the magical Jedi declassified stuff. Im assuming the subpoena in question is the one central to the Mar A Lago saga, and has been released in various filings by the DOJ.
Quote:The only problem would be if a document was created (and classified) *after* Biden became POTUS, and somehow Trump got a hold of it, and held on to it. I seriously doubt that is the case here, but I guess we’ll see.

I dont think the actual wording of the subpoena supports the above position.
I admit I have not read the DOJ’s subpoena. I was responding to the tweet by Jack E. Smith shown in the OP. But even if the subpoena is as you describe it, I doubt that would impact my opinion. I still regard this as a political attack, launched by an incumbent President, against one of his past (and possibly future) political rivals. It is ominous, imho, that more people are unwilling to see that, or to acknowledge it if they do see it.

If the documents in question were revealed to the public, and we could judge the seriousness/urgency of the classification status for ourselves, I might change my mind. But as long as we are relying on a characterization/description of those documents by third parties, I will always regard the FBI raid, and the anti-Trump litigation that has flowed from it, as a political vendetta, and nothing more.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2022 08:16 PM by Native Georgian.)
12-08-2022 08:01 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #10
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 07:52 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Some of us think that it should be a fairly prudent and bright line for Presidents to not be allowed to load up the moving van full of top secret SCIF classified information and ship it home to themselves as a lasting memento to themselves of their time in the office. And subsequently treat such items their own little personal shrine nuggets.
Full agreement.

Quote:Unfortunately enforcing that rule also runs into 'political issues' no matter which way you slice it.
The best, *non-political* answer is to make current ex-presidents exempt, but apply it to future ex-presidents. Somewhat like the 22nd Amendment.
12-08-2022 08:06 PM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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Post: #11
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
Humpty Dumpty has really been killing it this week.

Finding more classified documents... and the DoJ requesting a contempt charge.

Hosting a dinner with QAnon and Pizzagate conspiracy theorist. This after hosting the dinner with Ye West and the neo-Nazi.

Herschel Walker. Just "Herschel Walker."

And of course suggesting portions of the Constitution be disregarded so he can become president again.

Been a hell of a week even for a stable genius.
12-08-2022 08:55 PM
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Post: #12
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
Is Trump in jail yet?

Maybe you guys should consider not creating these stupid friggin threads till he is. You’re just making yourselves look pathetic.
12-08-2022 08:59 PM
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Post: #13
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 07:44 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(12-08-2022 07:34 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Trump will be the first POTUS to not be able to have a library because they won't let him have any documents.
Presidential libraries didn’t become a thing until after FDR had died. They really are nothing more than monuments to the vanity/ego of the most vain/egotistical people on earth. I’d be more than okay with it if we never get another one.

With that said, of course this is all a political attack on an ex-President who is deeply hated by the current DOJ leadership. It is a very dangerous precedent and someday the Trump-haters are going to regret having established it, when — not if, but when — it is turned against an ex-President that they like.

Yes. The DOJ and FBI are rotten to the core. The next Republican president should take a hard look at prosecuting those in the DOJ and FBI for violation of civil rights.
12-08-2022 09:37 PM
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RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
Notice how all this stuff comes out after the Dems lose the House.
12-08-2022 09:38 PM
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Post: #15
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 09:37 PM)bullet Wrote:  Yes. The DOJ and FBI are rotten to the core. The next Republican president should take a hard look at prosecuting those in the DOJ and FBI for violation of civil rights.

Don't defund the police. Defund the FBI.
12-08-2022 09:42 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 09:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  Notice how all this stuff comes out after the Dems lose the House.

Uhhh... this couldnt be done until the Judge Cannon shitshow was tamped down. Has nothing to do with the election.

If you dont like the timing, blame Donald for his wild ass goose chase three times to the 11th Circ and once to the Supreme Court for that world class delay.
12-08-2022 09:42 PM
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Tigers2B1 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 08:55 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Humpty Dumpty has really been killing it this week.

Finding more classified documents... and the DoJ requesting a contempt charge.

Hosting a dinner with QAnon and Pizzagate conspiracy theorist. This after hosting the dinner with Ye West and the neo-Nazi.

Herschel Walker. Just "Herschel Walker."

And of course suggesting portions of the Constitution be disregarded so he can become president again.

Been a hell of a week even for a stable genius.

Earlier Trump had described Griner as full of drugs when talking about her arrest. Now that she is out of Russia I would be interested in hearing her side of the story.
12-08-2022 10:16 PM
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Gamenole Offline
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Post: #18
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 07:41 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(12-08-2022 07:28 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  If Trump acquired the documents while he was still POTUS, he could declassify them at will. He didn’t have to sign anything, didn’t even have to announce it or tell anyone. Just wanting them to be declassified is all that was needed.

So you subscribe to the Jedi mind declassify theory? I agree that as POTUS he has near unilateral ability to declassify (stuff under the Atomic Secrets Act he cannot do so unilaterally), but I dont think the old adage of "cogito ergo sum" would hold in this avenue. I would surmise that there must/should be some evidence of the act.

Whatever ultimately happens with the current Trump fracas, I hope we'll get a Supreme Court ruling on Presidential declassification authority out of it. I agree the power is largely unilateral and doesn't require justification, but I completely disagree that it can be done by wishing it so and without a process, or at a minimum some recorded documentation. I think even this iteration of the Court will agree, but whatever rule 5 of them can agree upon needs to laid down so we have clearer standards moving forward and future ex-Presidents can't take advantage of the muddy waters of a poorly defined plenary power.
12-08-2022 10:32 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
Back when I held a TS-SIOP/ESI (meaning I had access to the nuclear launch codes), it was always my understanding that if a president disclosed classified information openly or removed it from secure storage, then it was automatically declassified. I have no idea where the legal basis for that interpretation lay, or whether it is still the case today.

I agree with Game that a clear interpretation of presidential classification/declassification authority would be a useful outcome.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2022 10:53 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
12-08-2022 10:53 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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RE: DOJ requests a contempt charge against Trump team.
(12-08-2022 10:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Back when I held a TS-SIOP/ESI (meaning I had access to the nuclear launch codes), it was always my understanding that if a president disclosed classified information openly or removed it from secure storage, then it was automatically declassified. I have no idea where the legal basis for that interpretation lay, or whether it is still the case today.

I agree with Game that a clear interpretation of presidential classification/declassification authority would be a useful outcome.

As well. The current idea of 'I thought it, therefore it is' is fundamentally terrible.

It sucks that it has to be tested. I would hope a Chief Executive would be just an eensy weensy more careful than 'oopsie, I have them, I Yoda mind meld change them to non-classified.'
12-08-2022 10:59 PM
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