(09-16-2022 11:05 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Oh...the humanity. No, seriously, THE HUMANITY! Something Abbott and DeSantis know nothing about.

Quote:At a church where the migrants had been staying on Martha's Vineyard, migrants cheered Friday morning when they heard the Massachusetts government would shelter them at a Cape Cod military base.

They embraced each other and locals before boarding buses provided by state and local government for their journey to the base.

Joint Base Cape Cod -- already an emergency shelter designated by the state emergency management agency -- is set up to provide "a safe temporary accommodation appropriate for the needs of families and individuals," the governor's office said in a release.

The migrants "will be housed in dormitory-style spaces at JBCC, with separate spaces accommodating both individuals and families," and families will not be separated, the release reads.

They will have access to services including legal, health care, food, hygiene kits, and crisis counseling, according to Baker's office.

Baker lauded a temporary shelter that the Martha's Vineyard community set up for the migrants in "a moment of urgent need."

"We are grateful to the providers, volunteers and local officials that stepped up on Martha's Vineyard over the past few days to provide immediate services to these individuals," Baker said in a news release.

The migrants sent to Martha's Vineyard will be voluntarily taken to a military base for shelter and support

I understand you're excited about this, Tom... as it has pushed the problem off of the liberal people of the state of Massachusets... and put it on the Federal government which isn't a 'bad' idea....

But this never happened when all of those people were being allowed (by the FEDERAL government, I might add) in to Texas and other often more 'conservative' (and often less wealthy) places... and only happened when it became a burden on Martha's Vineyard and the elite.

So while you complained about the 'waste' of money by sending these people, obviously it worked.... and it places the burden where it belongs... on the feds who are responsible for the border... and NOT on the state or local municipalities, who are not.

I mean seriously, Tom... what facility like a military base does the Governor have to house these people? Prisons are about the only thing, and you'd lose your MIND if anyone suggested converting a prison to temporary housing for illegals.

And we will see how this works out once they start to seek jobs or what have you. It could be GREAT as bases are secure so no exploitation by people outside the group, and they are also secure 'leaving' meaning that we have time to vet these people, or at least see how they act once they arrive, find out their goals etc before we just put them in to society without a plan.

WELL DONE Desantis and Abbott for FINALLY getting the Feds to manage the problem they created... at least for now.

(09-16-2022 08:43 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  So of course this is a political stunt, but is this just meant to be base red meat or do they actually believe this lands with whatever you define "independents" are at this point? I guess this just goes to my general confusion and disagreement with both sides on this issue. I'm trying to find the side on this issue that wants more secure borders, stricter visa policies and entrance standards, but wants to treat desperate people at the border and in this country like actual humans with some basic dignity. Obviously this is a cartoonish characterization of both sides of this but I look at this as one side wants full open borders and handing out green cards to anyone who crosses and the other wants to build a 100 ft wall with armed guards firing at anyone who gets within 500 feet of the wall. I honestly feel like there is no in between, I know there is in terms of where most actual people stand but in terms of politically I just don't see it.

Is it a stunt or is it a real attempt at trying to resolve the issue?

Do states have the legal ability to deport illegals or does that fall on the Feds?

If it's the Feds, then certain states are forced to accept, care for, and assist law breakers. It's easy for Massachusetts to declare itself a sanctuary state because they don't have to deal with the massive numbers of illegals flooding into their cities and using up their resources.

So in an attempt to alleviate the burden on TX, AZ, etc, these illegals are being moved to areas that publicly state their acceptance and tolerance of the illegals.

Sure, some see this as a great move, but the problem still exists. Until EVERY state has to deal with the influx of illegals and the drain on the systems in place this problem will continue to exist.


https://www.lirs.org/what-are-sanctuary-...hey-exist/

Quote:LISTS OF SANCTUARY STATES IN THE UNITED STATES
Sometimes the term “sanctuary” encompasses more than just a city. There are hundreds of counties across the United States that claim sanctuary county policies, and several states that consider their entire geographical location as a sanctuary. As of March 2021, the following states claim sanctuary status:

California
Colorado
Connecticut
Illinois
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
Oregon
Vermont
Washington

Quote:LISTS OF SANCTUARY CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
Sanctuary cities are the predominant idea many have when examining immigration policies. Across the country, specific sanctuary cities as of March 2021 include:

Berkley, CA
Los Angeles, CA
Napa, CA
San Francisco, CA
Santa Ana, CA
Watsonville, CA
Aurora, CO
Denver, CO
East Haven, CT
Hartford, CT
Iowa City, IA
Chicago, IL
New Orleans, LA
Amherst, MA
Boston, MA
Cambridge, MA
Concord, MA
Lawrence, MA
Newton, MA
North Hampton, MA
Somerville, MA
Baltimore, MD
Lansing, MI
Jackson, MS
Newark, NJ
San Miguel, NM
Ithaca, NY
Eugene, OR
Springfield, OR
Philadelphia, PA
Providence, RI
Alexandria, VA
Burlington, VT
Montpelier, VT
Winooski, VT
Seattle, WA
Marysville, WA

(09-16-2022 11:31 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:25 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:46 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  We need to build a wall, enforce our current laws, institute remain in Mexico policy, make it illegal to apply for asylum if you don't present yourself at a port of entry, expedite the judicial process so that there isn't catch and release. Hell, even make a deal with Mexico to secure their southern border. Right now, the southern border crisis is destroying the US.

Agreed. We also need to help Mexico develop a middle class so its own citizens are more incentivized to actually stay. A lot of the reason we get a lot of illegal aliens from Mexico is Mexico's economy largely relies on Mexican nationals sending money to relatives still in Mexico. Until the country starts promoting the development of a "middle class" of sorts, this practice will continue.

Perot is that you?

No. lol I'm only a 40-year-old man from the Houston area.

(09-16-2022 11:57 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:05 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Oh...the humanity. No, seriously, THE HUMANITY! Something Abbott and DeSantis know nothing about.

Quote:At a church where the migrants had been staying on Martha's Vineyard, migrants cheered Friday morning when they heard the Massachusetts government would shelter them at a Cape Cod military base.

They embraced each other and locals before boarding buses provided by state and local government for their journey to the base.

Joint Base Cape Cod -- already an emergency shelter designated by the state emergency management agency -- is set up to provide "a safe temporary accommodation appropriate for the needs of families and individuals," the governor's office said in a release.

The migrants "will be housed in dormitory-style spaces at JBCC, with separate spaces accommodating both individuals and families," and families will not be separated, the release reads.

They will have access to services including legal, health care, food, hygiene kits, and crisis counseling, according to Baker's office.

Baker lauded a temporary shelter that the Martha's Vineyard community set up for the migrants in "a moment of urgent need."

"We are grateful to the providers, volunteers and local officials that stepped up on Martha's Vineyard over the past few days to provide immediate services to these individuals," Baker said in a news release.

The migrants sent to Martha's Vineyard will be voluntarily taken to a military base for shelter and support

I understand you're excited about this, Tom... as it has pushed the problem off of the liberal people of the state of Massachusets... and put it on the Federal government which isn't a 'bad' idea....

But this never happened when all of those people were being allowed (by the FEDERAL government, I might add) in to Texas and other often more 'conservative' (and often less wealthy) places... and only happened when it became a burden on Martha's Vineyard and the elite.

So while you complained about the 'waste' of money by sending these people, obviously it worked.... and it places the burden where it belongs... on the feds who are responsible for the border... and NOT on the local municipalities, who are not.

And we will see how this works out once they start to seek jobs or what have you. It could be GREAT as bases are secure so no exploitation by people outside the group, and they are also secure 'leaving' meaning that we have time to vet these people, or at least see how they act once they arrive, find out their goals etc before we just put them in to society without a plan.

what I find amusingly sad is some of yaz still cater to the trolls w/o purpose … @horsd'oeuvre

(09-16-2022 11:04 AM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:40 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-15-2022 12:57 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-15-2022 12:52 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  What kind of depraved individual you ask? Pieces of **** like Abbott and DeSantis.

lulz, so ask that person from Marthas Vinyard if the illegals are going to stay there.

hint: they're not. They already have it setup for them to be bussed out of their privileged neighborhood tomorrow.

"OH MUH GERD, I CANT BELIEVE REPUBLICANS ARE BUSSING ILLEGALS HERE!! WE WILL FEED THEM AND TAKE CARE OF THEM and bus them somewhere else tomorrow.

bwahahahahaha GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!

lol... EVERYTHING that MV woman complained about SHE JUST DID!

Shut up, libs. You embarrass yourselves.

(09-16-2022 11:44 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:38 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:31 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:25 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Agreed. We also need to help Mexico develop a middle class so its own citizens are more incentivized to actually stay. A lot of the reason we get a lot of illegal aliens from Mexico is Mexico's economy largely relies on Mexican nationals sending money to relatives still in Mexico. Until the country starts promoting the development of a "middle class" of sorts, this practice will continue.

Perot is that you?

Wasn't that the point of NAFTA? Help move some manufacturing jobs to Mexico to help build a middle class? Certainly wasn't popular around these parts.

ding ding ding

It's true NAFTA helped with US purchasing power, but Perot pointed out that Mexico would be worse off. Al Gore tried to say Mexico would ultimately benefit from the legislation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fi8OOAKuGQ&t=2170s

And it failed Mexico instead, just like Perot predicted. For me, that also helps explain the influx of illegals across our southern border back in the first sixteen years of this millennium, and why we ultimately elected the Magnificent Orange Bastard in 2016.

Great thread to follow...

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

(09-16-2022 12:01 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  what I find amusingly sad is some of yaz still cater to the trolls w/o purpose … @horsd'oeuvre

Well, to be honest... I really don't need to interact with people who share my perspective. I can certainly learn from others and get a little additional information, but you don't need to convince me that Republican governors are RIGHT to make all of these sanctuary states bear the burden for their actions, and the fed's frequent inaction on the border.

Tom is certainly misguided, and more importantly, he's ACTIVE in his being misguided and trying to misguide others. I interact with him in the hopes that he will realize how dumb he often makes himself look... and while he's certainly willing to look dumb, I'm hoping that he will get tired of doing what he really knows are dumb things... For a few others, there is always hope that they have an epiphany. Calling someone dumb who believes what SUPPOSEDLY reliable people (the press) tell them only hardens them in their beliefs. Appealing to their logic and showing them that they're being lied to can often be more effective.

(09-16-2022 12:09 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Great thread to follow...

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

Truly fantastic

(09-16-2022 10:57 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:19 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:09 AM)gdunn Wrote:  Because that is where the influx of Illegal Immigrants are coming in. That is a tangible.

What does influx mean in this sentence?

While we have hundreds, maybe even thousands that came in on Student Visas, Work Visas, etc that have overstayed their welcome, the easier target is where there's an influx.

Easier how? Border enforcement requires manpower, surveillance, across miles of desert, mountainous, and aggressive environments.

Think of your house. You keep finding water on the floor after a rainstorm. You look up and see a brownspot indicating a roof leak. You chase the roof leak and fix the ceiling. But you still see water coming in and another brownspot has formed. You're chasing the roof leaks. In this instance the roof leaks are the southern border.

From my perspective, in this analogy, republicans are ignoring the leak in the roof (Visa overstays, border crossing reform) to chase the rats your neighbor swears he saw crawling into your house.

Months go by and you still have a wet floor but there are no more brownspots, then you start targeting the next problem. That's the Visas but you don't know where to start whether it's a foundation leak or a leak at your wall or even a leak at a window.

But what have republicans legitimately done to stop the leak? Trump wanted to replace the entire roof instead of fixing the leak but I think you and I both agree that that is a foolish waste of time and resources, while not guaranteeing the leak won't reappear in the future

Once you get the influx fixed then you can target the other issue.

The influx hasn't been addressed yet

The problem we have as a country is that nobody has a perfect plan and by perfect plan, a plan that all of the country will support.

Let me see if I understand correctly, i apologize in advance if I misrepresent. See the bolded statements.

No need. I'm going to answer what you put out there as easily as possible.

Influx- It's an entry of a large number of people. The Southern Border has an influx of people, if you disagree I suspect you have data that shows there's more people arriving via the Canadian border or overstayed Visas vs how many are illegally crossing at the border. In July there were 134k people that crossed.

I didn't want to misrepresent your words. Here are the figures from Pew Research:

• Unauthorized Immigration population (from all sources) rose between 1990 and 2007, reaching an apex in 2007.
• Mexican unauthorized immigrants are the single largest source, but is not the majority in the U.S. All other illegal immigrants that are not Mexican make up >50%, and this share is increasing.
• The percentage of illegal immigrants coming from overstays is increasing, relative to all other forms.
  

Securing the border is relatively easy. You build a wall. If walls don't work, then politicians need to take the walls down from around their houses. You can patrol a road along a fence easier than trying to track down someone who's over stayed. As someone who worked on a farm, it was easier to check the fence to see if a cow got out and locating said animal.

It's a lot more difficult than you are giving it credit for. Couldn't a network of drones be more effective and cheaper? If you build a wall, what about the migratory wildlife that will be impacted? Who's going to be responsible for buying all the private property that the wall would have to pass through? How much will it cost to maintain? I could go on and on

Looking for someone who overstayed their Visa means you gotta go to the last known address and see if they're there. If they don't have a phone or credit card it's like locating a needle in a stack of needles.

You are severely underestimating the governments ability and the ease with which they are able to track people. I'm sorry, but it's true.

The roof leak is the southern border. That was the analogy. Rats have nothing to do with this. Visas are your foundation leaks because that is a harder issue to fix.

The point i'm trying to make, is you think illegal border crossings across Mexico is the leak, but in reality, it's the smaller leak compared to the deluge coming from Visa overstays. You can't in good faith claim that you want to address illegal immigration, but start with the third most populous source, specifically the Mexicans crossing the border, while ignoring the others. That doesn't make any sense.

Correct the influx hasn't been fixed but you glossed over there's not a perfect solution and yes Trump wanted to replace the roof because if you can't find the leak and find damage you replace it. Don't know where the crossing is, there is a border fence but it's damaged, you replace it.

There are plenty of solutions. Dozens of them. America is a great and smart nation that has done starkly more incredible things than develop an efficient government process. You just have to want a solution.

Here, what do you think the issue is and how do you fix it and why do Democrats believe that making everyone that crosses a citizen viable?

Answering your last question, just shooting from the hip:

• Address the border crossings with a robust surveillance network. If Elon Musk can create global internet using a network of satellites, the U.S. can develop a drone surveillance network on the border, no problems. The technology exists and isn't even that groundbreaking. I guarantee you this will be a cheaper, smarter, better solution than wasting billions on a wall, and will have the added benefit of being an easy platform for other things like survey and environmental study.
• Completely re analyze how we approach immigration. We need a better system that can quickly gather information from a single well recognized platform. Lean up the process and close the backlog, make the entire citizenship process not take longer than a year and provide a clear and concise roadmap for attaining it. Specifically, do not make it easy for the sake of letting anyone in, it must be secure, and thorough, but not unduly burdensome.
• Provide an onboarding process for prospective immigrants, that will provide resources for them to integrate into the American society (social, labor, medical, housing, etc.) that also allows the government to instill a monitoring period required of all immigrants (like a parole? But not the same system as for criminals, clearly)
  

Let me be clear here, those on the left do not want everyone and anyone into this country. We want a humane, safe, mutually beneficial way to allow people who voluntarily want to be Americans, to become Americans.

(09-16-2022 12:09 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Great thread to follow...

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

Top 11 Comments From Martha’s Vineyard Residents About What To Do With 50 Migrants
https://tbdailynews.com/top-11-comments-...-migrants/

(09-16-2022 12:34 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  Let me be clear here, those on the left do not want everyone and anyone into this country. We want a humane, safe, mutually beneficial way to allow people who voluntarily want to be Americans, to become Americans.

So where are you drawing the line? It’s easy to say “safe, humane, inviting” etc. millions of people want to come every year but we can’t just let that happen.

Unless you’re talking about having skin quotas which is still discriminatory in practice, could you elaborate?

https://twitter.com/stevenvoiceover/stat...JJ-WA&s=19

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

(09-16-2022 12:34 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:57 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:19 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:09 AM)gdunn Wrote:  Because that is where the influx of Illegal Immigrants are coming in. That is a tangible.

What does influx mean in this sentence?

While we have hundreds, maybe even thousands that came in on Student Visas, Work Visas, etc that have overstayed their welcome, the easier target is where there's an influx.

Easier how? Border enforcement requires manpower, surveillance, across miles of desert, mountainous, and aggressive environments.

Think of your house. You keep finding water on the floor after a rainstorm. You look up and see a brownspot indicating a roof leak. You chase the roof leak and fix the ceiling. But you still see water coming in and another brownspot has formed. You're chasing the roof leaks. In this instance the roof leaks are the southern border.

From my perspective, in this analogy, republicans are ignoring the leak in the roof (Visa overstays, border crossing reform) to chase the rats your neighbor swears he saw crawling into your house.

Months go by and you still have a wet floor but there are no more brownspots, then you start targeting the next problem. That's the Visas but you don't know where to start whether it's a foundation leak or a leak at your wall or even a leak at a window.

But what have republicans legitimately done to stop the leak? Trump wanted to replace the entire roof instead of fixing the leak but I think you and I both agree that that is a foolish waste of time and resources, while not guaranteeing the leak won't reappear in the future

Once you get the influx fixed then you can target the other issue.

The influx hasn't been addressed yet

The problem we have as a country is that nobody has a perfect plan and by perfect plan, a plan that all of the country will support.

Let me see if I understand correctly, i apologize in advance if I misrepresent. See the bolded statements.

No need. I'm going to answer what you put out there as easily as possible.

Influx- It's an entry of a large number of people. The Southern Border has an influx of people, if you disagree I suspect you have data that shows there's more people arriving via the Canadian border or overstayed Visas vs how many are illegally crossing at the border. In July there were 134k people that crossed.

I didn't want to misrepresent your words. Here are the figures from Pew Research:

• Unauthorized Immigration population (from all sources) rose between 1990 and 2007, reaching an apex in 2007.
• Mexican unauthorized immigrants are the single largest source, but is not the majority in the U.S. All other illegal immigrants that are not Mexican make up >50%, and this share is increasing.
• The percentage of illegal immigrants coming from overstays is increasing, relative to all other forms.
  

Securing the border is relatively easy. You build a wall. If walls don't work, then politicians need to take the walls down from around their houses. You can patrol a road along a fence easier than trying to track down someone who's over stayed. As someone who worked on a farm, it was easier to check the fence to see if a cow got out and locating said animal.

It's a lot more difficult than you are giving it credit for. Couldn't a network of drones be more effective and cheaper? If you build a wall, what about the migratory wildlife that will be impacted? Who's going to be responsible for buying all the private property that the wall would have to pass through? How much will it cost to maintain? I could go on and on

Looking for someone who overstayed their Visa means you gotta go to the last known address and see if they're there. If they don't have a phone or credit card it's like locating a needle in a stack of needles.

You are severely underestimating the governments ability and the ease with which they are able to track people. I'm sorry, but it's true.

The roof leak is the southern border. That was the analogy. Rats have nothing to do with this. Visas are your foundation leaks because that is a harder issue to fix.

The point i'm trying to make, is you think illegal border crossings across Mexico is the leak, but in reality, it's the smaller leak compared to the deluge coming from Visa overstays. You can't in good faith claim that you want to address illegal immigration, but start with the third most populous source, specifically the Mexicans crossing the border, while ignoring the others. That doesn't make any sense.

Correct the influx hasn't been fixed but you glossed over there's not a perfect solution and yes Trump wanted to replace the roof because if you can't find the leak and find damage you replace it. Don't know where the crossing is, there is a border fence but it's damaged, you replace it.

There are plenty of solutions. Dozens of them. America is a great and smart nation that has done starkly more incredible things than develop an efficient government process. You just have to want a solution.

Here, what do you think the issue is and how do you fix it and why do Democrats believe that making everyone that crosses a citizen viable?

Answering your last question, just shooting from the hip:

• Address the border crossings with a robust surveillance network. If Elon Musk can create global internet using a network of satellites, the U.S. can develop a drone surveillance network on the border, no problems. The technology exists and isn't even that groundbreaking. I guarantee you this will be a cheaper, smarter, better solution than wasting billions on a wall, and will have the added benefit of being an easy platform for other things like survey and environmental study.
• Completely re analyze how we approach immigration. We need a better system that can quickly gather information from a single well recognized platform. Lean up the process and close the backlog, make the entire citizenship process not take longer than a year and provide a clear and concise roadmap for attaining it. Specifically, do not make it easy for the sake of letting anyone in, it must be secure, and thorough, but not unduly burdensome.
• Provide an onboarding process for prospective immigrants, that will provide resources for them to integrate into the American society (social, labor, medical, housing, etc.) that also allows the government to instill a monitoring period required of all immigrants (like a parole? But not the same system as for criminals, clearly)
  

Let me be clear here, those on the left do not want everyone and anyone into this country. We want a humane, safe, mutually beneficial way to allow people who voluntarily want to be Americans, to become Americans.

This is absolutely not what leftists have any interest in doing.



Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

Here you go Max. This deserves to be seen.

Those small original colonies now states in the Northeast with Predominantly WHITE folks are the most Subliminal Racists in this country. They have never lived worked or interacted with anyone but other whites. They virtue signal by proxy. Just don’t ever let it come here to roost.

(09-16-2022 12:56 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Those small original colonies now states in the Northeast with Predominantly WHITE folks are the most Subliminal Racists in this country. They have never lived worked or interacted with anyone but other whites. They virtue signal by proxy. Just don’t ever let it come here to roost.

Their servants aren't white. So they are used to treating them as secondary to themselves. Somebody gotta cut the grass, trim the hedges and splicer their groceries.

Martha's Vineyard Resident Calls Police To Report A Hispanic In The Neighborhood Not Operating A Leaf Blower

Quote:MARTHA'S VINEYARD, MA — Residents of upscale Martha's Vineyard are in a panic after several buses dropped off illegal immigrants from Florida this week. One terrified resident reportedly called the authorities after seeing Hispanic males outside her home, not even operating a leaf blower or any other kind of gardening equipment.

"Hello, is this 911? Yes, there are brown-looking Latinx people outside my 20,000-square-foot seaside home, and they aren't even carrying leaf blowers," said a terrified Mavis McWhite to the dispatcher. "They aren't even holding so much as a rake. They're up to no good. I'm scared! Please send help!"

Early reports from one of the wealthiest zip codes on earth indicate that approximately 50 people from countries south of the equator are striking fear in the hearts of local oligarchs, movie stars, and millionaire politicians who reside there. "It was so inconsiderate for DeSantis to ship these dark-skinned people up to our neighborhood without the tools they need to maintain our multimillion-dollar properties," said Town Councilmember Pam Karen-Cindy. "What else are they going to do all day? Just despicable."

At publishing time, the Hispanic immigrants who currently work as landscapers and house servants in Martha's Vineyard for minimum wage had organized a demonstration to protest the arrival of new Hispanic immigrants who will work for even cheaper.

https://babylonbee.com/news/marthas-vine...eaf-blower

(09-16-2022 11:58 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 08:43 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  So of course this is a political stunt, but is this just meant to be base red meat or do they actually believe this lands with whatever you define "independents" are at this point? I guess this just goes to my general confusion and disagreement with both sides on this issue. I'm trying to find the side on this issue that wants more secure borders, stricter visa policies and entrance standards, but wants to treat desperate people at the border and in this country like actual humans with some basic dignity. Obviously this is a cartoonish characterization of both sides of this but I look at this as one side wants full open borders and handing out green cards to anyone who crosses and the other wants to build a 100 ft wall with armed guards firing at anyone who gets within 500 feet of the wall. I honestly feel like there is no in between, I know there is in terms of where most actual people stand but in terms of politically I just don't see it.

Is it a stunt or is it a real attempt at trying to resolve the issue?

Do states have the legal ability to deport illegals or does that fall on the Feds?

If it's the Feds, then certain states are forced to accept, care for, and assist law breakers. It's easy for Massachusetts to declare itself a sanctuary state because they don't have to deal with the massive numbers of illegals flooding into their cities and using up their resources.

So in an attempt to alleviate the burden on TX, AZ, etc, these illegals are being moved to areas that publicly state their acceptance and tolerance of the illegals.

Sure, some see this as a great move, but the problem still exists. Until EVERY state has to deal with the influx of illegals and the drain on the systems in place this problem will continue to exist.


https://www.lirs.org/what-are-sanctuary-...hey-exist/

Quote:LISTS OF SANCTUARY STATES IN THE UNITED STATES
Sometimes the term “sanctuary” encompasses more than just a city. There are hundreds of counties across the United States that claim sanctuary county policies, and several states that consider their entire geographical location as a sanctuary. As of March 2021, the following states claim sanctuary status:

California
Colorado
Connecticut
Illinois
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
Oregon
Vermont
Washington

Quote:LISTS OF SANCTUARY CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
Sanctuary cities are the predominant idea many have when examining immigration policies. Across the country, specific sanctuary cities as of March 2021 include:

Berkley, CA
Los Angeles, CA
Napa, CA
San Francisco, CA
Santa Ana, CA
Watsonville, CA
Aurora, CO
Denver, CO
East Haven, CT
Hartford, CT
Iowa City, IA
Chicago, IL
New Orleans, LA
Amherst, MA
Boston, MA
Cambridge, MA
Concord, MA
Lawrence, MA
Newton, MA
North Hampton, MA
Somerville, MA
Baltimore, MD
Lansing, MI
Jackson, MS
Newark, NJ
San Miguel, NM
Ithaca, NY
Eugene, OR
Springfield, OR
Philadelphia, PA
Providence, RI
Alexandria, VA
Burlington, VT
Montpelier, VT
Winooski, VT
Seattle, WA
Marysville, WA

Denver has started bussing it's homeless to ABQ, via one way bus tickets.

(09-16-2022 12:34 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  Answering your last question, just shooting from the hip:

• Address the border crossings with a robust surveillance network. If Elon Musk can create global internet using a network of satellites, the U.S. can develop a drone surveillance network on the border, no problems. The technology exists and isn't even that groundbreaking. I guarantee you this will be a cheaper, smarter, better solution than wasting billions on a wall, and will have the added benefit of being an easy platform for other things like survey and environmental study.
• Completely re analyze how we approach immigration. We need a better system that can quickly gather information from a single well recognized platform. Lean up the process and close the backlog, make the entire citizenship process not take longer than a year and provide a clear and concise roadmap for attaining it. Specifically, do not make it easy for the sake of letting anyone in, it must be secure, and thorough, but not unduly burdensome.
• Provide an onboarding process for prospective immigrants, that will provide resources for them to integrate into the American society (social, labor, medical, housing, etc.) that also allows the government to instill a monitoring period required of all immigrants (like a parole? But not the same system as for criminals, clearly)
  

Let me be clear here, those on the left do not want everyone and anyone into this country. We want a humane, safe, mutually beneficial way to allow people who voluntarily want to be Americans, to become Americans.

This response is getting quite long and tedious.

I cleaned up everything but your last comment because everything else is massive.

Yes there would be an impact on migratory animals, but what's the true impact of that? I mean if you have an issue about it, I've got dead deer on the side of the interstate that say our highways impact their crossing and motorists that are having thousands upon thousands of dollars of damage done.

So you're telling me, that if John Doe comes into the US on a Visa, overstays, but there's no way to track him, he can be found easily.. Funny how that never happens though. And yes securing the border is that easy. I know what some of the border wall designs were. There was no way around it. Some of them would've required heavy machinery and/or explosives to break through.

I gave you a number of incidents at the border of over 134k in the month of July of 2022, are you telling me that more than 135k people were due to leave the country on Visas in July? I think you need to provide something that says that otherwise I think you're grasping at straws. I looked at something for FY20 and it said for that year 13k people overstayed.. Maybe my math is off but that's only 10% of the month of July of this year...

And let me be clear... None of the ways I've seen put out by this administration or Dems in DC are vetting people and giving them a pathway, it's granting citizenship and that's it. That's not the way to do it. It's a slap in the face of millions that toiled and took the tests to become citizens.