(09-09-2022 05:51 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2022 05:44 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  This is just a stupid idea....No point, no creativity.... I agree with above, just created the SEC/ACC challenge and don't over think this or make a stupid pivot to just more ACC games.....If you want to create a reason for UNC & Duke to play more...just schedule a weekly game with each other starting Thanksgiving week and go all the way thru to end of regular season....LOL

I think his point was that the ACC actually did this (a third game between UNC and Duke, NC State, and Wake Forest) during the formative years of the league - and it was really successful back then. This isn't a new idea, just bringing back an old one.

I like the idea and second UCONN as the 4th at MSG.

Boston College actually plays in a tournament like this every year. It's called the Beanpot and pits the hockey teams of BC, BU, Northeastern, and Harvard against each other. It sells out the Boston Garden and is not considered a Hockey East conference game for BC, BU, or NE. Harvard is in the ECAC conference for hockey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beanpot_(ice_hockey)

BU vs BC is the Duke vs UNC of hockey. Nothing better than a good "Sucks to BU" chant after a Beanpot win!

(09-08-2022 09:36 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  If we need a 16th

Send ND to play the VA teams and UL

Invite UConn to play Cuse, Pitt and BC

https://twitter.com/LastWordOnCFB/status...7591815169

helps on the margin ...

CANCER PATIENT NEEDS CHEMO

The only way UCONN is entering the ACC if if quite a lot of the ACC leaves the conference first.

(09-09-2022 08:45 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The only way UCONN is entering the ACC if if quite a lot of the ACC leaves the conference first.

as I understand it ...
four-team early season tourney to gin up enthusiasm ...

HOOP-DEE-DOO

I think early season mini-tournaments hosted by the ACC schools is a really good idea. Instead of a traditional bracket, something more like Duke vs Tennessee and UNC vs S. Carolina in Greensboro. Next day Duke vs SC and UNC vs UT. You get in the same arena as Dookies and can root against them.

This what ND, IU, PU, and Butler do. Or something like that.

(09-09-2022 09:06 AM)esayem Wrote:  I think early season mini-tournaments hosted by the ACC schools is a really good idea. Instead of a traditional bracket, something more like Duke vs Tennessee and UNC vs S. Carolina in Greensboro. Next day Duke vs SC and UNC vs UT. You get in the same arena as Dookies and can root against them.

This what ND, IU, PU, and Butler do. Or something like that.

So what we're already doing absolutely everywhere in baseball, volleyball, men's basketball, women's basketball, tennis, etc. The only real change is instead of traveling to the Bahamas or NYC or whatever for MBB you'll instead play in your backyard. Which is how all the other sports above do it.

(09-09-2022 09:16 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-09-2022 09:06 AM)esayem Wrote:  I think early season mini-tournaments hosted by the ACC schools is a really good idea. Instead of a traditional bracket, something more like Duke vs Tennessee and UNC vs S. Carolina in Greensboro. Next day Duke vs SC and UNC vs UT. You get in the same arena as Dookies and can root against them.

This what ND, IU, PU, and Butler do. Or something like that.

So what we're already doing absolutely everywhere in baseball, volleyball, men's basketball, women's basketball, tennis, etc. The only real change is instead of traveling to the Bahamas or NYC or whatever for MBB you'll instead play in your backyard. Which is how all the other sports above do it.

The ACC hosts the event in our backyard, yes. Not in place of the Great Alaska Shootout (RIP), but in addition.

The Dixie Classic was the top basketball tournament for the 12 years it existed because when it started in 1949, the field contained 4 top 25 programs off the bat. It was held in the largest basketball arena south of Philadelphia and it brought in 4 schools from around the country who themselves were of interest and at time when Eastern Independents still included future Ivy League schools. The ACC had not split from the Southern Conference at that time, and Wake Forest was still in northern Wake County NC.

Teams were:

49 - West Va, Rhode Island, Penn State, Georgia Tech
50 - Tulane, Colgate, Navy, Duquanse
51 - Cornell, Navy, Columbia, Southern California
52 - BYU, Princeton, Penn, Holy Cross
53 - Tulane, Seton Hall, Navy, Oregon State
54 - Southern Cal, Cornell, Minnesota, West Virginia
55 - Wyoming, Villanova, Oregon State, Minnesota
56 - De Paul, Utah, West Virginia, Iowa
57 - Northwestern, Duquanse, Seton Hall, St. Louis
58 - Cincinnati (Oscar Robinson) Michigan State (Jumppin' Johnny Green) Louis, Yale
59 - Utah, Dayton, Minnesota, Holy Cross
60 - Maryland, Villanova, Wyoming, Marquette

The Dixie Classic was so successful that it attracted the attention of NY and Philadelphia mobsters who put the squeeze on UNC and NC State basketball players. Everett Case the head coach at NC State reported it to the NC SBI. They UNC System President ended Holiday Tournament for UNC and NC State, and UNC eventually ran off Frank McGuire because the mob had used him as a sort of useful idiot to get UNC players. This was the key event in the early ACC and is part of the reason why McGuire eventually going to South Carolina created so much consternation in Chapel Hill and Durham.

Eventually the North South Doubleheader - UNC and NC State playing Clemson and SC in Charlotte tried to take the place of the Dixie Classic, as well as the Big 4 Tournament in Greensboro.

An event like this will not work with UNC and Duke alone. Part of the event is forcing opposing fan bases to actively pull for someone they normally hate.

(09-09-2022 08:45 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The only way UCONN is entering the ACC if if quite a lot of the ACC leaves the conference first.

We didn't say for UConn to join just play in this tournament

(09-09-2022 10:36 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(09-09-2022 08:45 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The only way UCONN is entering the ACC if if quite a lot of the ACC leaves the conference first.

We didn't say for UConn to join just play in this tournament

That's the way I read it too.

(09-09-2022 01:02 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  The Dixie Classic was the top basketball tournament for the 12 years it existed because when it started in 1949, the field contained 4 top 25 programs off the bat. It was held in the largest basketball arena south of Philadelphia and it brought in 4 schools from around the country who themselves were of interest and at time when Eastern Independents still included future Ivy League schools. The ACC had not split from the Southern Conference at that time, and Wake Forest was still in northern Wake County NC.

Teams were:

49 - West Va, Rhode Island, Penn State, Georgia Tech
50 - Tulane, Colgate, Navy, Duquanse
51 - Cornell, Navy, Columbia, Southern California
52 - BYU, Princeton, Penn, Holy Cross
53 - Tulane, Seton Hall, Navy, Oregon State
54 - Southern Cal, Cornell, Minnesota, West Virginia
55 - Wyoming, Villanova, Oregon State, Minnesota
56 - De Paul, Utah, West Virginia, Iowa
57 - Northwestern, Duquanse, Seton Hall, St. Louis
58 - Cincinnati (Oscar Robinson) Michigan State (Jumppin' Johnny Green) Louis, Yale
59 - Utah, Dayton, Minnesota, Holy Cross
60 - Maryland, Villanova, Wyoming, Marquette

The Dixie Classic was so successful that it attracted the attention of NY and Philadelphia mobsters who put the squeeze on UNC and NC State basketball players. Everett Case the head coach at NC State reported it to the NC SBI. They UNC System President ended Holiday Tournament for UNC and NC State, and UNC eventually ran off Frank McGuire because the mob had used him as a sort of useful idiot to get UNC players. This was the key event in the early ACC and is part of the reason why McGuire eventually going to South Carolina created so much consternation in Chapel Hill and Durham.

Eventually the North South Doubleheader - UNC and NC State playing Clemson and SC in Charlotte tried to take the place of the Dixie Classic, as well as the Big 4 Tournament in Greensboro.

An event like this will not work with UNC and Duke alone. Part of the event is forcing opposing fan bases to actively pull for someone they normally hate.

The Big Four Tournament was a sports highlight of my childhood. I guess CD Chesley produced the TV broadcast? Sail with the Pilot at the wheel!!!

(09-08-2022 04:09 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-08-2022 02:50 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  If, for example, UNC is playing in a tournament in Hawaii, ESPN pays the "owner" of the tournament for broadcast rights. If UNC is hosting a tournament, or even a single game, wouldn't ESPN already have the broadcast rights via the current media contract?

I don't know the legal side but if UNC were to play a game in Greensboro, could EPSN argue that it was a home game that UNC moved to circumvent the media contract?

That's not how you negotiate. You go to ESPN and say "we're thinking of doing this - how much extra will you pay us if we do?"

It wasn't meant to be a negotiation tactic. ESPN owns all of the broadcast rights. If it is an ACC/SEC challenge or a tournament which an ACC team hosts, ESPN doesn't have to pay any more money. The ACC would need an independent 3rd party to stage the tournament with a contract to have the ACC supply 1 or 2 ACC teams per year.

What would be the incentive for the schools? UNC (continuing the example) can play in a tourney in Hawaii and hopefully break even or play in a tourney in DC and share the proceeds with 14 other schools.

(09-10-2022 04:29 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(09-09-2022 01:02 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  The Dixie Classic was the top basketball tournament for the 12 years it existed because when it started in 1949, the field contained 4 top 25 programs off the bat. It was held in the largest basketball arena south of Philadelphia and it brought in 4 schools from around the country who themselves were of interest and at time when Eastern Independents still included future Ivy League schools. The ACC had not split from the Southern Conference at that time, and Wake Forest was still in northern Wake County NC.

Teams were:

49 - West Va, Rhode Island, Penn State, Georgia Tech
50 - Tulane, Colgate, Navy, Duquanse
51 - Cornell, Navy, Columbia, Southern California
52 - BYU, Princeton, Penn, Holy Cross
53 - Tulane, Seton Hall, Navy, Oregon State
54 - Southern Cal, Cornell, Minnesota, West Virginia
55 - Wyoming, Villanova, Oregon State, Minnesota
56 - De Paul, Utah, West Virginia, Iowa
57 - Northwestern, Duquanse, Seton Hall, St. Louis
58 - Cincinnati (Oscar Robinson) Michigan State (Jumppin' Johnny Green) Louis, Yale
59 - Utah, Dayton, Minnesota, Holy Cross
60 - Maryland, Villanova, Wyoming, Marquette

The Dixie Classic was so successful that it attracted the attention of NY and Philadelphia mobsters who put the squeeze on UNC and NC State basketball players. Everett Case the head coach at NC State reported it to the NC SBI. They UNC System President ended Holiday Tournament for UNC and NC State, and UNC eventually ran off Frank McGuire because the mob had used him as a sort of useful idiot to get UNC players. This was the key event in the early ACC and is part of the reason why McGuire eventually going to South Carolina created so much consternation in Chapel Hill and Durham.

Eventually the North South Doubleheader - UNC and NC State playing Clemson and SC in Charlotte tried to take the place of the Dixie Classic, as well as the Big 4 Tournament in Greensboro.

An event like this will not work with UNC and Duke alone. Part of the event is forcing opposing fan bases to actively pull for someone they normally hate.

The Big Four Tournament was a sports highlight of my childhood. I guess CD Chesley produced the TV broadcast? Sail with the Pilot at the wheel!!!

You are showing your age now.

Do you remember when the officials screwed WF claiming Skip Wise tossed the inbounds pass off the above court score board and gave the ball back to Carolina?

(09-11-2022 11:11 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 04:29 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(09-09-2022 01:02 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  The Dixie Classic was the top basketball tournament for the 12 years it existed because when it started in 1949, the field contained 4 top 25 programs off the bat. It was held in the largest basketball arena south of Philadelphia and it brought in 4 schools from around the country who themselves were of interest and at time when Eastern Independents still included future Ivy League schools. The ACC had not split from the Southern Conference at that time, and Wake Forest was still in northern Wake County NC.

Teams were:

49 - West Va, Rhode Island, Penn State, Georgia Tech
50 - Tulane, Colgate, Navy, Duquanse
51 - Cornell, Navy, Columbia, Southern California
52 - BYU, Princeton, Penn, Holy Cross
53 - Tulane, Seton Hall, Navy, Oregon State
54 - Southern Cal, Cornell, Minnesota, West Virginia
55 - Wyoming, Villanova, Oregon State, Minnesota
56 - De Paul, Utah, West Virginia, Iowa
57 - Northwestern, Duquanse, Seton Hall, St. Louis
58 - Cincinnati (Oscar Robinson) Michigan State (Jumppin' Johnny Green) Louis, Yale
59 - Utah, Dayton, Minnesota, Holy Cross
60 - Maryland, Villanova, Wyoming, Marquette

The Dixie Classic was so successful that it attracted the attention of NY and Philadelphia mobsters who put the squeeze on UNC and NC State basketball players. Everett Case the head coach at NC State reported it to the NC SBI. They UNC System President ended Holiday Tournament for UNC and NC State, and UNC eventually ran off Frank McGuire because the mob had used him as a sort of useful idiot to get UNC players. This was the key event in the early ACC and is part of the reason why McGuire eventually going to South Carolina created so much consternation in Chapel Hill and Durham.

Eventually the North South Doubleheader - UNC and NC State playing Clemson and SC in Charlotte tried to take the place of the Dixie Classic, as well as the Big 4 Tournament in Greensboro.

An event like this will not work with UNC and Duke alone. Part of the event is forcing opposing fan bases to actively pull for someone they normally hate.

The Big Four Tournament was a sports highlight of my childhood. I guess CD Chesley produced the TV broadcast? Sail with the Pilot at the wheel!!!

You are showing your age now.

Do you remember when the officials screwed WF claiming Skip Wise tossed the inbounds pass off the above court score board and gave the ball back to Carolina?

That was during the ACC tournament, and the ball did hit the scoreboard.

The ACC could promote a series of weekend tournaments in December before the conference season started:

MSG: three of Syracuse/BC/UVa/Notre Dame with a rotating Big East invitee.

Big 4 in Greensboro: Wake Forest, NC State, Duke, Carolina

Western Challenge: three of Pitt/Louisville/Virginia Tech/Georgia Tech/Notre Dame with a SEC opponent (either Kentucky or Tennessee) rotating between Louisville, Lexington, Knoxville, Atlanta and Pittsburgh.

Florida Challenge: with FSU/Miami/Clemson/Georgia Tech and Florida/Auburn/Georgia.

(09-11-2022 10:10 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(09-08-2022 04:09 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-08-2022 02:50 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  If, for example, UNC is playing in a tournament in Hawaii, ESPN pays the "owner" of the tournament for broadcast rights. If UNC is hosting a tournament, or even a single game, wouldn't ESPN already have the broadcast rights via the current media contract?

I don't know the legal side but if UNC were to play a game in Greensboro, could EPSN argue that it was a home game that UNC moved to circumvent the media contract?

That's not how you negotiate. You go to ESPN and say "we're thinking of doing this - how much extra will you pay us if we do?"

It wasn't meant to be a negotiation tactic. ESPN owns all of the broadcast rights. If it is an ACC/SEC challenge or a tournament which an ACC team hosts, ESPN doesn't have to pay any more money. The ACC would need an independent 3rd party to stage the tournament with a contract to have the ACC supply 1 or 2 ACC teams per year.

What would be the incentive for the schools? UNC (continuing the example) can play in a tourney in Hawaii and hopefully break even or play in a tourney in DC and share the proceeds with 14 other schools.

The way I see it, ESPN owns the rights to 2 UNC/Duke games per season - if they want a 3rd, they need to pay extra.

(09-11-2022 11:11 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 04:29 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(09-09-2022 01:02 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  The Dixie Classic was the top basketball tournament for the 12 years it existed because when it started in 1949, the field contained 4 top 25 programs off the bat. It was held in the largest basketball arena south of Philadelphia and it brought in 4 schools from around the country who themselves were of interest and at time when Eastern Independents still included future Ivy League schools. The ACC had not split from the Southern Conference at that time, and Wake Forest was still in northern Wake County NC.

Teams were:

49 - West Va, Rhode Island, Penn State, Georgia Tech
50 - Tulane, Colgate, Navy, Duquanse
51 - Cornell, Navy, Columbia, Southern California
52 - BYU, Princeton, Penn, Holy Cross
53 - Tulane, Seton Hall, Navy, Oregon State
54 - Southern Cal, Cornell, Minnesota, West Virginia
55 - Wyoming, Villanova, Oregon State, Minnesota
56 - De Paul, Utah, West Virginia, Iowa
57 - Northwestern, Duquanse, Seton Hall, St. Louis
58 - Cincinnati (Oscar Robinson) Michigan State (Jumppin' Johnny Green) Louis, Yale
59 - Utah, Dayton, Minnesota, Holy Cross
60 - Maryland, Villanova, Wyoming, Marquette

The Dixie Classic was so successful that it attracted the attention of NY and Philadelphia mobsters who put the squeeze on UNC and NC State basketball players. Everett Case the head coach at NC State reported it to the NC SBI. They UNC System President ended Holiday Tournament for UNC and NC State, and UNC eventually ran off Frank McGuire because the mob had used him as a sort of useful idiot to get UNC players. This was the key event in the early ACC and is part of the reason why McGuire eventually going to South Carolina created so much consternation in Chapel Hill and Durham.

Eventually the North South Doubleheader - UNC and NC State playing Clemson and SC in Charlotte tried to take the place of the Dixie Classic, as well as the Big 4 Tournament in Greensboro.

An event like this will not work with UNC and Duke alone. Part of the event is forcing opposing fan bases to actively pull for someone they normally hate.

The Big Four Tournament was a sports highlight of my childhood. I guess CD Chesley produced the TV broadcast? Sail with the Pilot at the wheel!!!

You are showing your age now.

Do you remember when the officials screwed WF claiming Skip Wise tossed the inbounds pass off the above court score board and gave the ball back to Carolina?

I remember Skip Wise, excellent player, but don't remember that particular play.

This really wont move the needle much. The best way to monetize basketball is to break away from the NCAA so that the conferences themselves get the Tournament money

(09-16-2022 07:30 PM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  This really wont move the needle much. The best way to monetize basketball is to break away from the NCAA so that the conferences themselves get the Tournament money

Of course.
That said, it's not an "either/or" proposition - you can the one that's in your control now and still fully benefit from the other when/if it happens.

It may have been Skip Brown instead of Skip Wise.