While a breakaway is certainly possible, some may think even likely eventually, but a promotion and relegation will never happen.

Not among the “haves”.

The MW/SB/AAC/others might find a benefit in a super-league which will give them more 3M games to sell to willing TV partners… and would be a nice funnel to the 6th “champ” spot.

(09-06-2022 09:59 AM)Poster Wrote:  My guess on what a Southern superconference might look like

Florida
Georgia
Tennessee
LSU
Auburn
Alabama
Texas
Oklahoma
Florida State
Clemson (which would not have even been considered for this conference a decade ago)

Here is what a Northern Superleague might look like
Ohio State
Penn State
Michigan
Nebraska
USCw
Miami (Fl)
Notre Dame
Some random 8th team


All of these teams are considered perpetual powers, except for the Northern superleague possibly selecting some random 8th team just to round things out. I put Miami (Fl) in the Northern superleague because it's basically a Northern city culturally.

There's no scenario where Liberty will get into a superleague.

I don't think these leagues would technically leave the NCAA, but they'd probably force the playoff committee to give them about 8 out of 12 playoff spots every year. (Regardless of whether they'd deserve it.) If the playoffs expand to 24 teams, I wouldn't be surprised if the superleagues demand that all of their members get an autobid, even if they went 0-12. As a "compromise", maybe they'd allow the playoff committee to not invite the worst team in each superleague.


The purpose of these leagues would not be to be inclusive or give every team a fair chance. In fact, the purpose of this superleagues would be quite the opposite- the leagues would be intended to exclude teams.

I guess that a team could theoretically play its way into a superleague by playing as well as Clemson (who would not have been included in a superleague 10 years ago) has played recently, but that would be the exception and not the norm.

So which one of those teams is going to want to go 3-9 or 2 -10 (or gulp, 1-11) every year? Somebody has to lose, and none of them want to be that team....winning means everything to those teams, and they aren't going to put up with losing records. Like one poster said, teams like da Bears and the Jets are needed just as much as the NE Patriots....

What if the biggest schools are labeled "legacy" members that can't be moved down and they just rotate a given number of invitees every couple of years. Would they consider P&R then?

(09-06-2022 08:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  If the big schools break away in football only, could we see a system of European soccer style promotion and relegation?

Benefits of this include:

-It allows a "Premier League" of the biggest and best brands.

-It means only the biggest money schools make the highest playoff.

-It means the schools can still play lower division schools for buy games and even maintain rivalries with demoted schools.

-It leaves the door open for declining programs (on and off the field) such as perhaps a Miami to be demoted from the premier league.

-On the opposite side of the coin, developing potential powerhouse programs such as a Liberty can make the show and add to the league.

-It concretes the largest brands together and there are none that don't carry their own weight.

They could do this and leave basketball (and the rest) alone, which wouldn't kill their golden goose, which is the NCAA Tournament. There'd still be a place for Gonzaga, Villanova and the Big East without rendering them irrelevant.

Unlike Premier League soccer, they could promote and relegate every two years to allow for series home and homes.

Instead of Pro/Rel, have a Champions League where each FBS conference nominates its best. The teams don't leaver their home conference.

So let's allocate 27 berths among the P5 on a pro rata basis:

SEC(7): Georgia, Alabama, Oklahoma, Florida, Texas A&M, Texas, Arkansas
B1G(7): Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan State, Iowa
ACC+(6): Clemson, Pitt, Notre Dame, FSU, NC State, Syracuse
BXII(5): Baylor, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, K-State, TCU
P10(4): Utah, Arizona State, Oregon State, Washington
MtW(2): AFA, Nevada
AAC(2): SMU, UAB
Sun Belt(1): Louisiana
CUSA+(1): WKU
MAC(1): WMU

The 36 teams are placed into four bowls:

Bowl 1: Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Clemson, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State.
Bowl 2: Wisconsin, Iowa State, Florida, Texas A&M, Texas, Minnesota, Michigan State, Pitt, Arkansas.
Bowl 3: Notre Dame, Iowa, K-State, TCU, Florida State, NC State, Syracuse, Utah.
Bowl 4: Oregon State, Washington, Louisiana, SMU, AFA, WMU, Nevada, UAB, WMU.

Each team is scheduled against two teams from each of the four bowl, a total of 8 games, with one home and one away. If there are multiple teams from the same conference draw them together to the extent possible.

For the SEC:
Bowl 1: Georgia, Alabama, and Oklahoma will play each other.
Bowl 2: Texas will play A&M (rivalry game). This will force Arkansas to play Florida. The Texas schools will be drawn against the non-Texas schools.
Bowl 1:Bowl 2. Three teams in Bowl 1 will play two games, two teams in Bowl 2 will play two SEC games, and two will play one. Georgia-Florida and Oklahoma-Texas will be matched (rivalry games).

For the B1G:
Bowl 1: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State will play each other.
Bowl 2: Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan state will play each other.
Bowl 1:Bowl 2. All teams will play two games. Michigan-Michigan State will be matched (rivalry game)
Bowl 1:Bowl 3. Iowa will play two of three teams.
Bowl 2:Bowl 3. Iowa will play two of three teams, including Minnesota (rivalry).

ACC:
Bowl 3: Notre Dame, FSU, NC State, Syracuse will be drawn for two games. No games are considered rivalry games. For this competition, ND will be considered to be an ACC team. Army, UConn, and UMass as CUSA teams.
Bowl 1:Bowl 2: Clemson v Pitt.
Bowl 1:Bowl 3: Clemson v. NC State? and one other.
Bowl 2: Bowl 3: Pitt v. Syracuse? and one other.

B12:
Bowl 1: Baylor v. Oklahoma State
Bowl 3: K-State v. TCU
Bowl 1: Bowl 2: Iowa State v Baylor & Oklahoma State
Bowl 2: Bowl 3: Iowa State v K-State & TCU

P12:
Bowl 3: Utah v. Arizona State
Bowl 4: Oregon State v. Washington
Bowl 3:Bowl 4: Utah and Arizona State v. Oregon State and Washington

MtW:
Bowl 4: AFA v. Nevada

AAC:
Bowl 4: SMU v. UAB

Inter-conference (example).
Bowl 1:Bowl 2. Clemson, Baylor, and Oklahoma State have only one game, as do Pitt and two of the four SEC teams. Draw another game for each avoiding Clemson v. Pitt.

The SEC teams in the champions league will have 4 games (5 teams) or 3 games (2 teams) against SEC teams. We can bring them up to 7 games each by scheduling them against the other 9 SEC teams. This could rivalry games such as Alabama-Auburn, Alabama-Tennessee, Georgia-South Carolina, A&M-LSU, and Missouri-Arkansas. These.

The Champions League teams play 8 games and will be placed in a single 36-team table. The Top 16 will advance to the playoffs. Conceivably there could be some play-ins to break ties for the last berths. It will likely require a 5-3 or 4-4 record to qualify. The other records can be used for seeding purposes. A possible playoff bracket.

1. Georgia
16. Michigan State
9. Wisconsin
8. Baylor

5. Clemson
12. Florida
13. Texas
4. Michigan

3. Ohio State
14. Texas A&M
11. Iowa State
6. Oklahoma

7. Penn State
10. Oklahoma State
15. Minnesota
2. Alabama

The bottom 10 will subject to removal from the Champions league. The conferences will be seeded based on average (mean) wins by the conferences teams and matched against the last 16-placed teams. Perhaps

1. SEC Tennessee v. WMU
2. B1G Northwestern v. UAB
3. BXII Texas Tech v. Nevada
4. ACC North Carolina v. WKU
5. P10 Oregon v. AFA
6. SB Coastal Carolina v. SMU
7. MtW Boise State v. Louisiana
8. CUSA Liberty v Washington
9. AAC Tulane v. Oregon State
10. MAC CMU v. Arizona State

The teams in bold would be favored. If that happened, then the new allocation of berths in the Champions League would be:

SEC (8)
B1G (8)
ACC+ (7)
BXII (6)
P10 (5)
AAC (1)
SB (1)

Finally, there could be intra-conference challenges. Teams that finish out of the playoffs (17-26) could be challenged by top teams in their conference not in the Champions League (maximum of two per conference). Possible:

Auburn v. Arkansas
Indiana v. Iowa
BYU v. TCU
Cincinnati v. K-State
Miami(FL) v. NC State
Wake v. Syracuse
Cal v. Utah

$$$$$

Home team owns media rights (subject to any conference GOR), ticket sales and concessions. There might be a required sale of tickets 10%? to visitor who keeps money if they can sell the tickets. A participating team might be required to use stadium with 30K (or 40K capacity.

Media rights for playoffs distributed to participants (after CFP takes cut for administration, and small percentage to NCAA for licensing purposes).

Base for 36 teams: 8 units, plus one unit for each win (an 8-0 team gets twice as much as 0-8 team). 4 units for making playoffs and 4 for winning each game, and 8 for championship. Potential for champion 40 units (or 5X minimum).

Payout over 5 years to avoid fluctuations. Conferences decide distributions.

(09-06-2022 02:32 PM)penguino Wrote:  

(09-06-2022 09:59 AM)Poster Wrote:  My guess on what a Southern superconference might look like

Florida
Georgia
Tennessee
LSU
Auburn
Alabama
Texas
Oklahoma
Florida State
Clemson (which would not have even been considered for this conference a decade ago)

Here is what a Northern Superleague might look like
Ohio State
Penn State
Michigan
Nebraska
USCw
Miami (Fl)
Notre Dame
Some random 8th team


All of these teams are considered perpetual powers, except for the Northern superleague possibly selecting some random 8th team just to round things out. I put Miami (Fl) in the Northern superleague because it's basically a Northern city culturally.

There's no scenario where Liberty will get into a superleague.

I don't think these leagues would technically leave the NCAA, but they'd probably force the playoff committee to give them about 8 out of 12 playoff spots every year. (Regardless of whether they'd deserve it.) If the playoffs expand to 24 teams, I wouldn't be surprised if the superleagues demand that all of their members get an autobid, even if they went 0-12. As a "compromise", maybe they'd allow the playoff committee to not invite the worst team in each superleague.


The purpose of these leagues would not be to be inclusive or give every team a fair chance. In fact, the purpose of this superleagues would be quite the opposite- the leagues would be intended to exclude teams.

I guess that a team could theoretically play its way into a superleague by playing as well as Clemson (who would not have been included in a superleague 10 years ago) has played recently, but that would be the exception and not the norm.

So which one of those teams is going to want to go 3-9 or 2 -10 (or gulp, 1-11) every year? Somebody has to lose, and none of them want to be that team....winning means everything to those teams, and they aren't going to put up with losing records. Like one poster said, teams like da Bears and the Jets are needed just as much as the NE Patriots....

That’s a good point, and it’s probably the only reason why these brutal conferences haven’t already formed.


My guess is that if these conferences form, they’d probably only play 7 conference games in order to reduce the brutality of their schedules. That would still leave some teams that go 1-6 or sometimes even 0-7 in conference every year.

(09-06-2022 04:36 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  What if the biggest schools are labeled "legacy" members that can't be moved down and they just rotate a given number of invitees every couple of years. Would they consider P&R then?

This is the Super League model and I think you could get something like this going. 36 “Legacy” teams (32 P2 + choice of 4), and 12 pro/rel spots, no more than 4 turned over in a given year.

PRO/REL can never work in North America, because while it is AWESOME, it's not capitalist at all.

It's funny to me how North American sports are way more socialist than society -- revenue sharing, draft. And European football is way more capitalist than their society, just buying/selling players.

But Europe had a PRO/REL model for a century before TV money; and they are incredibly envious of the American system of closed league. (And tried to start a NA style super league to replace champions league and their fans revolted). It should tell you something that the only league with a reason to use PRO/REL for mass success -- MLS, who should have formed "MLS-2" and then expanded MLS via promotion for like 20 years, selling 120 teams -- choose the closed system and sold franchises to TV markets instead of markets with great fan bases (Rochester, Sacramento, Phoenix, etc).


There is zero chance in hell any legit North American League has PRO/REL. Maybe some niche sport like lacrosse or handball or field hockey. I don't even think women's hockey could try it. (Although, actually... it could work. 32 NHL and 32 AHL cities teams each sponsoring women's teams and having PRO/REL along like three levels with some other cities in college towns like North Dakota or Madison would totally work... but the NHL wouldn't do it because they can't even start a WNHL successfully after a freaking decade of women's hockey just begging for it).