(09-12-2022 07:54 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 06:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 04:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:25 PM)XLance Wrote:  Probably not until 2037.

The CFP committee had a called meeting last week. It one item on the agenda, a proposal outlining the steps which would be required to expand the playoffs at the end of the 2024 season. If expansion moves up, so too will realignment agendas. The SEC and B1G will be looking at ways to both expand their lineup of contenders while padding their middles and adding a needed niche or two.

Breaking away from the NCAA could facilitate the development of hoops as well.

So, X, you may wish to think 12 years earlier, maybe even by the Summer of 2023 with movement in 2024. If you think the world waits on the ACC then you would be wrong, and if you think the ACC will let the world pass them by then you are merely doubling down on wrong.

Football change will happen soon. Hoops will depend on contracts but does give the breakaway some time develop infrastructure for other sports.

The money is there so movement will be as well.

It was my understanding that the proposal to move to a 12 team playoff included the top 6 conference champions and 6 top at large teams.
In those terms reducing the P5 down to P3 makes absolutely no sense, unless of course you want to see the CUSA champion in the playoffs every year.

With the B1G now off of the table for ESPN and broadcast rights uncertain for the Big 12 and the PAC, the Mouse is smart enough to keep their two guaranteed pools of inventory happy and healthy.

Didn't the BCS alter its format when the Big East was gutted on the football side?

Don't you think the CFP can make slight alterations to their format in order to reflect the reality on the ground? We're not talking about the NCAA here. The CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense.

IIRC part of the delay until 2024 was to allow the CFP to let contracts for venues and alter schedules to fit the new format.
That represents a whole lot of legal backtracking and contract penalty payoffs on the part of the CFP if things are altered. And as you, yourself have averred, the CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense, and they wouldn't put themselves in a vulnerable legal situation that could become costly.

Just my opinion here, given the fact that the top 4 seeds receive bye's in the CFP proposal, I think it's very likely to see the P5 become at least a P4 in the very near future. Consolidating the best brands in 4 conferences who's champions get the top 4 seeds plus receive all of the wild cards seems to make sense. The G5's best then get seed's 11 and 12, giving them a little bit better opportunity for two spots opposed to just one if there is still a P5. IMO the expanded CFP will only serve to further realignment and consolidation not to slow it or stop it.

(09-12-2022 01:26 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 07:54 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 06:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 04:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The CFP committee had a called meeting last week. It one item on the agenda, a proposal outlining the steps which would be required to expand the playoffs at the end of the 2024 season. If expansion moves up, so too will realignment agendas. The SEC and B1G will be looking at ways to both expand their lineup of contenders while padding their middles and adding a needed niche or two.

Breaking away from the NCAA could facilitate the development of hoops as well.

So, X, you may wish to think 12 years earlier, maybe even by the Summer of 2023 with movement in 2024. If you think the world waits on the ACC then you would be wrong, and if you think the ACC will let the world pass them by then you are merely doubling down on wrong.

Football change will happen soon. Hoops will depend on contracts but does give the breakaway some time develop infrastructure for other sports.

The money is there so movement will be as well.

It was my understanding that the proposal to move to a 12 team playoff included the top 6 conference champions and 6 top at large teams.
In those terms reducing the P5 down to P3 makes absolutely no sense, unless of course you want to see the CUSA champion in the playoffs every year.

With the B1G now off of the table for ESPN and broadcast rights uncertain for the Big 12 and the PAC, the Mouse is smart enough to keep their two guaranteed pools of inventory happy and healthy.

Didn't the BCS alter its format when the Big East was gutted on the football side?

Don't you think the CFP can make slight alterations to their format in order to reflect the reality on the ground? We're not talking about the NCAA here. The CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense.

IIRC part of the delay until 2024 was to allow the CFP to let contracts for venues and alter schedules to fit the new format.
That represents a whole lot of legal backtracking and contract penalty payoffs on the part of the CFP if things are altered. And as you, yourself have averred, the CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense, and they wouldn't put themselves in a vulnerable legal situation that could become costly.

Just my opinion here, given the fact that the top 4 seeds receive bye's in the CFP proposal, I think it's very likely to see the P5 become at least a P4 in the very near future. Consolidating the best brands in 4 conferences who's champions get the top 4 seeds plus receive all of the wild cards seems to make sense. The G5's best then get seed's 11 and 12, giving them a little bit better opportunity for two spots opposed to just one if there is still a P5. IMO the expanded CFP will only serve to further realignment and consolidation not to slow it or stop it.

Well, when you look at the B12 and see that the top 4 G5 have been taken and realize that San Diego State, Connecticut, S.M.U., Memphis, Temple, and South Florida are the remaining choices and that San Diego State and USF have the most market advantage in recruit rich areas the final choice has to be between the most solvent (UConn), and the best market (SMU). Therefore, I would say that in a move to 72 a P4 of ~ 18 each, or a P3 of ~ 24 each indicates the eventual CFP structure will easily be all P in nature and that it likely indicates a deliberate breakaway. And monetary splits coupled with market reach and inventory brand strength lean much more in favor of a P3. With a P4 you have a Super 2 and 2 Weak Sisters. With a P3 you have a Super 2 and a catch all which will likely have its best schools eventually absorbed into the other 2.

(09-10-2022 12:09 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  "How do ESPN , The SEC and The ACC keep The Big Ten out of the South."

Most straight-forward way:

1.) espn gets the media rights to the B12
2.) Split the ACC between the SEC and the B12.
3.) ND likely goes independent (non-fb probably to the Big East)
4.) Move Kansas and OK state to the SEC.
5.) Add SMU, Rice, Memphis, and USF to B12.

This limits the B10 to only adding PAC schools.

Granted, this presumes that none of the schools below decide to join the B10 instead of the SEC or B12.

-------
(sorted by region - re-arrange how you like.)

SEC - 28
Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma state, Texas, Texas A&M

Florida, Florida State, Miami, Georgia, Georgia tech, South Carolina, Clemson

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana State

VA, VA tech, NC, NC state, Duke, Vanderbilt, Louisville

B12 - 18
Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Wake Forest, Memphis, UCF, USF

Iowa state, Kansas state, Baylor, Houston, Rice, SMU, TCU, Texas tech, BYU

I've been looking at this, trying to get the SEC down to 24 instead of 28.

Oklahoma state, Kansas, Louisville, and VA tech, seem the easiest. (And not adding Memphis and Rice.)

Could take the B12 to 24 (and a possible split) by adding Colorado and Utah, and Temple and Memphis. (If they split, 4 more western schools could be possible.)

SEC - 24
Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Louisiana State

Florida, Florida State, Miami, Georgia, Georgia tech, Tennessee

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Clemson

VA, NC, NC state, Duke, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

ACC/B12 - 24
Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, VA tech, Memphis, Wake Forest, UCF, USF

Iowa state, Kansas, Kansas state, Oklahoma state, Baylor, Houston, SMU, TCU, Texas tech, Colorado, Utah, BYU

Doesn't look too bad.

(09-12-2022 07:54 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 06:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 04:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:25 PM)XLance Wrote:  Probably not until 2037.

The CFP committee had a called meeting last week. It one item on the agenda, a proposal outlining the steps which would be required to expand the playoffs at the end of the 2024 season. If expansion moves up, so too will realignment agendas. The SEC and B1G will be looking at ways to both expand their lineup of contenders while padding their middles and adding a needed niche or two.

Breaking away from the NCAA could facilitate the development of hoops as well.

So, X, you may wish to think 12 years earlier, maybe even by the Summer of 2023 with movement in 2024. If you think the world waits on the ACC then you would be wrong, and if you think the ACC will let the world pass them by then you are merely doubling down on wrong.

Football change will happen soon. Hoops will depend on contracts but does give the breakaway some time develop infrastructure for other sports.

The money is there so movement will be as well.

It was my understanding that the proposal to move to a 12 team playoff included the top 6 conference champions and 6 top at large teams.
In those terms reducing the P5 down to P3 makes absolutely no sense, unless of course you want to see the CUSA champion in the playoffs every year.

With the B1G now off of the table for ESPN and broadcast rights uncertain for the Big 12 and the PAC, the Mouse is smart enough to keep their two guaranteed pools of inventory happy and healthy.

Didn't the BCS alter its format when the Big East was gutted on the football side?

Don't you think the CFP can make slight alterations to their format in order to reflect the reality on the ground? We're not talking about the NCAA here. The CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense.

IIRC part of the delay until 2024 was to allow the CFP to let contracts for venues and alter schedules to fit the new format.
That represents a whole lot of legal backtracking and contract penalty payoffs on the part of the CFP if things are altered. And as you, yourself have averred, the CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense, and they wouldn't put themselves in a vulnerable legal situation that could become costly.

We're talking about 12 teams either way. They're not shrinking the total. If anything, time passing may bring a larger number.

Anyway, the format for choosing who gets a bye, who gets entry, and who hosts the games are entirely variable and flexible. None of the chosen venues are going to turn down a CFP game if one is made available to them.

People with business sense don't made decisions based on arbitrary numbers. For example, the survival of the ACC is not a sacred cow. No one is obligated to ensure their current setup is as profitable as any other alignment.

No one is coming to save the ACC this time. Whether it falls or survives is purely based on how much the parties make on viable scenarios.

Of course, you know all this, but your insistence on peddling nonsense does attribute to you a sort of charm, I suppose.

(09-12-2022 08:39 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 07:54 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 06:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 04:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The CFP committee had a called meeting last week. It one item on the agenda, a proposal outlining the steps which would be required to expand the playoffs at the end of the 2024 season. If expansion moves up, so too will realignment agendas. The SEC and B1G will be looking at ways to both expand their lineup of contenders while padding their middles and adding a needed niche or two.

Breaking away from the NCAA could facilitate the development of hoops as well.

So, X, you may wish to think 12 years earlier, maybe even by the Summer of 2023 with movement in 2024. If you think the world waits on the ACC then you would be wrong, and if you think the ACC will let the world pass them by then you are merely doubling down on wrong.

Football change will happen soon. Hoops will depend on contracts but does give the breakaway some time develop infrastructure for other sports.

The money is there so movement will be as well.

It was my understanding that the proposal to move to a 12 team playoff included the top 6 conference champions and 6 top at large teams.
In those terms reducing the P5 down to P3 makes absolutely no sense, unless of course you want to see the CUSA champion in the playoffs every year.

With the B1G now off of the table for ESPN and broadcast rights uncertain for the Big 12 and the PAC, the Mouse is smart enough to keep their two guaranteed pools of inventory happy and healthy.

Didn't the BCS alter its format when the Big East was gutted on the football side?

Don't you think the CFP can make slight alterations to their format in order to reflect the reality on the ground? We're not talking about the NCAA here. The CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense.

IIRC part of the delay until 2024 was to allow the CFP to let contracts for venues and alter schedules to fit the new format.
That represents a whole lot of legal backtracking and contract penalty payoffs on the part of the CFP if things are altered. And as you, yourself have averred, the CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense, and they wouldn't put themselves in a vulnerable legal situation that could become costly.

We're talking about 12 teams either way. They're not shrinking the total. If anything, time passing may bring a larger number.

Anyway, the format for choosing who gets a bye, who gets entry, and who hosts the games are entirely variable and flexible. None of the chosen venues are going to turn down a CFP game if one is made available to them.

People with business sense don't made decisions based on arbitrary numbers. For example, the survival of the ACC is not a sacred cow. No one is obligated to ensure their current setup is as profitable as any other alignment.

No one is coming to save the ACC this time. Whether it falls or survives is purely based on how much the parties make on viable scenarios.

Of course, you know all this, but your insistence on peddling nonsense does attribute to you a sort of charm, I suppose.

We are not talking about 12 teams either way, but rather an approved format (6 conference champions and 6 at large teams put forth by the SEC and B1G reps). The structure of the playoff is what was approved, not just a 12 team playoff, and nobody can arbitrarily change the format or alter contracts to suit their whims.

Bless your heart.

(09-13-2022 05:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 08:39 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 07:54 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 06:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 04:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  It was my understanding that the proposal to move to a 12 team playoff included the top 6 conference champions and 6 top at large teams.
In those terms reducing the P5 down to P3 makes absolutely no sense, unless of course you want to see the CUSA champion in the playoffs every year.

With the B1G now off of the table for ESPN and broadcast rights uncertain for the Big 12 and the PAC, the Mouse is smart enough to keep their two guaranteed pools of inventory happy and healthy.

Didn't the BCS alter its format when the Big East was gutted on the football side?

Don't you think the CFP can make slight alterations to their format in order to reflect the reality on the ground? We're not talking about the NCAA here. The CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense.

IIRC part of the delay until 2024 was to allow the CFP to let contracts for venues and alter schedules to fit the new format.
That represents a whole lot of legal backtracking and contract penalty payoffs on the part of the CFP if things are altered. And as you, yourself have averred, the CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense, and they wouldn't put themselves in a vulnerable legal situation that could become costly.

We're talking about 12 teams either way. They're not shrinking the total. If anything, time passing may bring a larger number.

Anyway, the format for choosing who gets a bye, who gets entry, and who hosts the games are entirely variable and flexible. None of the chosen venues are going to turn down a CFP game if one is made available to them.

People with business sense don't made decisions based on arbitrary numbers. For example, the survival of the ACC is not a sacred cow. No one is obligated to ensure their current setup is as profitable as any other alignment.

No one is coming to save the ACC this time. Whether it falls or survives is purely based on how much the parties make on viable scenarios.

Of course, you know all this, but your insistence on peddling nonsense does attribute to you a sort of charm, I suppose.

We are not talking about 12 teams either way, but rather an approved format (6 conference champions and 6 at large teams put forth by the SEC and B1G reps). The structure of the playoff is what was approved, not just a 12 team playoff, and nobody can arbitrarily change the format or alter contracts to suit their whims.

Bless your heart.

They can if they change the number and composition of conferences. You can't have a 6 & 6 if you only have 3 premier conferences, but you can have 9 at large. 12 teams could be contractually set. If 6 conferences are absorbed into 3 then the format will be adjusted. Perhaps it becomes 12 division champs and no at large or 3 conference champs and 9 at large? Form follows function. With 6 conferences the form is a 6/6. It could just as easily become a 9/3. The networks are contracting for 12 schools and 11 games.

Poor thang!

(09-13-2022 09:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-13-2022 05:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 08:39 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 07:54 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 06:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Didn't the BCS alter its format when the Big East was gutted on the football side?

Don't you think the CFP can make slight alterations to their format in order to reflect the reality on the ground? We're not talking about the NCAA here. The CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense.

IIRC part of the delay until 2024 was to allow the CFP to let contracts for venues and alter schedules to fit the new format.
That represents a whole lot of legal backtracking and contract penalty payoffs on the part of the CFP if things are altered. And as you, yourself have averred, the CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense, and they wouldn't put themselves in a vulnerable legal situation that could become costly.

We're talking about 12 teams either way. They're not shrinking the total. If anything, time passing may bring a larger number.

Anyway, the format for choosing who gets a bye, who gets entry, and who hosts the games are entirely variable and flexible. None of the chosen venues are going to turn down a CFP game if one is made available to them.

People with business sense don't made decisions based on arbitrary numbers. For example, the survival of the ACC is not a sacred cow. No one is obligated to ensure their current setup is as profitable as any other alignment.

No one is coming to save the ACC this time. Whether it falls or survives is purely based on how much the parties make on viable scenarios.

Of course, you know all this, but your insistence on peddling nonsense does attribute to you a sort of charm, I suppose.

We are not talking about 12 teams either way, but rather an approved format (6 conference champions and 6 at large teams put forth by the SEC and B1G reps). The structure of the playoff is what was approved, not just a 12 team playoff, and nobody can arbitrarily change the format or alter contracts to suit their whims.

Bless your heart.

They can if they change the number and composition of conferences. You can't have a 6 & 6 if you only have 3 premier conferences, but you can have 9 at large. 12 teams could be contractually set. If 6 conferences are absorbed into 3 then the format will be adjusted. Perhaps it becomes 12 division champs and no at large or 3 conference champs and 9 at large? Form follows function. With 6 conferences the form is a 6/6. It could just as easily become a 9/3. The networks are contracting for 12 schools and 11 games.

Poor thang!

Bless your heart, too.

(09-12-2022 01:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 01:26 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 07:54 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 06:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 04:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  It was my understanding that the proposal to move to a 12 team playoff included the top 6 conference champions and 6 top at large teams.
In those terms reducing the P5 down to P3 makes absolutely no sense, unless of course you want to see the CUSA champion in the playoffs every year.

With the B1G now off of the table for ESPN and broadcast rights uncertain for the Big 12 and the PAC, the Mouse is smart enough to keep their two guaranteed pools of inventory happy and healthy.

Didn't the BCS alter its format when the Big East was gutted on the football side?

Don't you think the CFP can make slight alterations to their format in order to reflect the reality on the ground? We're not talking about the NCAA here. The CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense.

IIRC part of the delay until 2024 was to allow the CFP to let contracts for venues and alter schedules to fit the new format.
That represents a whole lot of legal backtracking and contract penalty payoffs on the part of the CFP if things are altered. And as you, yourself have averred, the CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense, and they wouldn't put themselves in a vulnerable legal situation that could become costly.

Just my opinion here, given the fact that the top 4 seeds receive bye's in the CFP proposal, I think it's very likely to see the P5 become at least a P4 in the very near future. Consolidating the best brands in 4 conferences who's champions get the top 4 seeds plus receive all of the wild cards seems to make sense. The G5's best then get seed's 11 and 12, giving them a little bit better opportunity for two spots opposed to just one if there is still a P5. IMO the expanded CFP will only serve to further realignment and consolidation not to slow it or stop it.

Well, when you look at the B12 and see that the top 4 G5 have been taken and realize that San Diego State, Connecticut, S.M.U., Memphis, Temple, and South Florida are the remaining choices and that San Diego State and USF have the most market advantage in recruit rich areas the final choice has to be between the most solvent (UConn), and the best market (SMU). Therefore, I would say that in a move to 72 a P4 of ~ 18 each, or a P3 of ~ 24 each indicates the eventual CFP structure will easily be all P in nature and that it likely indicates a deliberate breakaway. And monetary splits coupled with market reach and inventory brand strength lean much more in favor of a P3. With a P4 you have a Super 2 and 2 Weak Sisters. With a P3 you have a Super 2 and a catch all which will likely have its best schools eventually absorbed into the other 2.

Which of those 6 would be dependent on what entity is doing the picking. A mostly ACC entity might take UConn or USF. A mostly Big 12 entity might take SDSU or SMU.

(09-12-2022 02:10 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 12:09 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  "How do ESPN , The SEC and The ACC keep The Big Ten out of the South."

Most straight-forward way:

1.) espn gets the media rights to the B12
2.) Split the ACC between the SEC and the B12.
3.) ND likely goes independent (non-fb probably to the Big East)
4.) Move Kansas and OK state to the SEC.
5.) Add SMU, Rice, Memphis, and USF to B12.

This limits the B10 to only adding PAC schools.

Granted, this presumes that none of the schools below decide to join the B10 instead of the SEC or B12.

-------
(sorted by region - re-arrange how you like.)

SEC - 28
Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma state, Texas, Texas A&M

Florida, Florida State, Miami, Georgia, Georgia tech, South Carolina, Clemson

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana State

VA, VA tech, NC, NC state, Duke, Vanderbilt, Louisville

B12 - 18
Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Wake Forest, Memphis, UCF, USF

Iowa state, Kansas state, Baylor, Houston, Rice, SMU, TCU, Texas tech, BYU

I've been looking at this, trying to get the SEC down to 24 instead of 28.

Oklahoma state, Kansas, Louisville, and VA tech, seem the easiest. (And not adding Memphis and Rice.)

Could take the B12 to 24 (and a possible split) by adding Colorado and Utah, and Temple and Memphis. (If they split, 4 more western schools could be possible.)

SEC - 24
Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Louisiana State

Florida, Florida State, Miami, Georgia, Georgia tech, Tennessee

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Clemson

VA, NC, NC state, Duke, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

ACC/B12 - 24
Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, VA tech, Memphis, Wake Forest, UCF, USF

Iowa state, Kansas, Kansas state, Oklahoma state, Baylor, Houston, SMU, TCU, Texas tech, Colorado, Utah, BYU

Doesn't look too bad.

I doubt things are symmetrical. But if there is some symmetry, it is more likely 4X18 or 2X20 and 2X16.

The short answer to the OP is: make sure the ACC is paid fairly (doesn't have to be P2 money) and sit back and do nothing.

(09-16-2022 01:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 02:10 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 12:09 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  "How do ESPN , The SEC and The ACC keep The Big Ten out of the South."

Most straight-forward way:

1.) espn gets the media rights to the B12
2.) Split the ACC between the SEC and the B12.
3.) ND likely goes independent (non-fb probably to the Big East)
4.) Move Kansas and OK state to the SEC.
5.) Add SMU, Rice, Memphis, and USF to B12.

This limits the B10 to only adding PAC schools.

Granted, this presumes that none of the schools below decide to join the B10 instead of the SEC or B12.

-------
(sorted by region - re-arrange how you like.)

SEC - 28
Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma state, Texas, Texas A&M

Florida, Florida State, Miami, Georgia, Georgia tech, South Carolina, Clemson

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana State

VA, VA tech, NC, NC state, Duke, Vanderbilt, Louisville

B12 - 18
Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Wake Forest, Memphis, UCF, USF

Iowa state, Kansas state, Baylor, Houston, Rice, SMU, TCU, Texas tech, BYU

I've been looking at this, trying to get the SEC down to 24 instead of 28.

Oklahoma state, Kansas, Louisville, and VA tech, seem the easiest. (And not adding Memphis and Rice.)

Could take the B12 to 24 (and a possible split) by adding Colorado and Utah, and Temple and Memphis. (If they split, 4 more western schools could be possible.)

SEC - 24
Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Louisiana State

Florida, Florida State, Miami, Georgia, Georgia tech, Tennessee

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Clemson

VA, NC, NC state, Duke, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

ACC/B12 - 24
Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, VA tech, Memphis, Wake Forest, UCF, USF

Iowa state, Kansas, Kansas state, Oklahoma state, Baylor, Houston, SMU, TCU, Texas tech, Colorado, Utah, BYU

Doesn't look too bad.

I doubt things are symmetrical. But if there is some symmetry, it is more likely 4X18 or 2X20 and 2X16.

Well, for one thing, that ACC/B12 conference should really just split into two separate conferences.

But "going big" seems to be in vogue on the forum these days : )

The tough part is trying to build this based upon the premise of the OP.

Because, in reality, more than a few of these schools are likely to end up elsewhere.

The first step has been taken to keep the B1G out of the South.
That is the splitting of the Big 12 media rights between FOX and ESPN. ESPN has taken the majority of the football while FOX will concentrate on Big 12 basketball.
What is important is that not only must the ACC be strengthened, but the Big 12 and even the SEC need to be able to withstand the lure of the B1G.

Contrary to what others may believe, I think no conference will move beyond 16 members for the foreseeable future unless they could attain a strategic advantage (like a move by FSU to the B1G or Notre Dame to the SEC, neither of which I see happening).

So how do we make the Big 12, SEC and ACC more impenetrable?
Two trades. As one poster describes them, niche moves.
1-Louisville moves to the Big 12 to pair with Cincinnati while West Virginia enters the ACC to renew the Backyard Brawl and contend for the Black Diamond Trophy.
2-IN a long anticipated move FSU joins the SEC to help rebalance the conference and the anticipated strengthening of the western part of the conference. In return, South Carolina rejoins the ACC in an attempt to strengthen Georgia Tech's position and provide regional rivalries for South Carolina.

The Big 12 remains at 12 teams but Louisville's addition helps the Big 12 penetrate not only into Ohio but into southern Indiana as well.
Basketball will be much stronger and the core of the conference becomes tighter if only by a small margin.

The SEC gets stronger as a football conference and also gets FSU's emerging basketball.

The benefit to the ACC is that it becomes a much more regional conference and West Virginia helps knit the northern teams to the southern ones. South Carolina provides a big stadium school to make up for the FSU loss, but is accessible for visiting fans in a three hour ride for 6 conference rivals.

If ESPN sees that ACC needs to replace FSU with another Florida school. USF is waiting, is centrally located and is academically compatible with the core of ACC schools.
If ESPN deems USF necessary, that leaves the ACC with 15, all still in the ETZ with one spot available it it every becomes necessary.

Each of the three conferences have been strengthened, tighter and more compatible and much less vulnerable to B1G incursion.

(11-06-2022 11:36 AM)XLance Wrote:  The first step has been taken to keep the B1G out of the South.
That is the splitting of the Big 12 media rights between FOX and ESPN. ESPN has taken the majority of the football while FOX will concentrate on Big 12 basketball.
What is important is that not only must the ACC be strengthened, but the Big 12 and even the SEC need to be able to withstand the lure of the B1G.

Contrary to what others may believe, I think no conference will move beyond 16 members for the foreseeable future unless they could attain a strategic advantage (like a move by FSU to the B1G or Notre Dame to the SEC, neither of which I see happening).

So how do we make the Big 12, SEC and ACC more impenetrable?
Two trades. As one poster describes them, niche moves.
1-Louisville moves to the Big 12 to pair with Cincinnati while West Virginia enters the ACC to renew the Backyard Brawl and contend for the Black Diamond Trophy.
2-IN a long anticipated move FSU joins the SEC to help rebalance the conference and the anticipated strengthening of the western part of the conference. In return, South Carolina rejoins the ACC in an attempt to strengthen Georgia Tech's position and provide regional rivalries for South Carolina.

The Big 12 remains at 12 teams but Louisville's addition helps the Big 12 penetrate not only into Ohio but into southern Indiana as well.
Basketball will be much stronger and the core of the conference becomes tighter if only by a small margin.

The SEC gets stronger as a football conference and also gets FSU's emerging basketball.

The benefit to the ACC is that it becomes a much more regional conference and West Virginia helps knit the northern teams to the southern ones. South Carolina provides a big stadium school to make up for the FSU loss, but is accessible for visiting fans in a three hour ride for 6 conference rivals.

If ESPN sees that ACC needs to replace FSU with another Florida school. USF is waiting, is centrally located and is academically compatible with the core of ACC schools.
If ESPN deems USF necessary, that leaves the ACC with 15, all still in the ETZ with one spot available it it every becomes necessary.

Each of the three conferences have been strengthened, tighter and more compatible and much less vulnerable to B1G incursion.

That's not bad.

(09-11-2022 09:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 10:39 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 08:04 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With some selective pickups from The Big 12 along with the basketball members of the Big East, ESPN would have the best basketball and football programs under contract. That idea would bring together the most successful basketball and football programs of the last 20-30 years.

The Big East contract with FOX does not expire until after the 2025 season, and it looks like FOX may have the inside track for renewal.

ESPN could however make selections from the Big 12 and place them in the ACC.

If you will recall it was widely agreed that the value in the Big 12 was in 4 schools:
Texas
Oklahoma
Kansas
West Virginia

ESPN has already captured Texas and Oklahoma, now all they need to do is lasso Kansas and West Virginia into the ACC, and perhaps do some shuffling later to match schools to the right conferences.
We may start by moving Miami to the SEC and Missouri to the ACC to make Kansas and Missouri contiguous to the other ACC schools, while giving the SEC a needed second school in Florida.

Or just add Kansas to the SEC

If you remove Missouri from the SEC, they'll go straight to the B10.

And if anyone's moving from ACC first, it's FSU.

If you do add Kansas to the SEC, which SEC school then slides into the ACC?
The most likely candidates would be either Kentucky or South Carolina.

I thought South Carolina was really fed up with the ACC when they left; would they be induced to accept the transfer? I'm thinking that if Kansas went to the SEC, ESPN would want to balance the four bluebloods (KU and UK in the SEC; UNC and Duke in the ACC).

(11-06-2022 05:38 PM)EdwordL Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 09:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 10:39 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 08:04 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With some selective pickups from The Big 12 along with the basketball members of the Big East, ESPN would have the best basketball and football programs under contract. That idea would bring together the most successful basketball and football programs of the last 20-30 years.

The Big East contract with FOX does not expire until after the 2025 season, and it looks like FOX may have the inside track for renewal.

ESPN could however make selections from the Big 12 and place them in the ACC.

If you will recall it was widely agreed that the value in the Big 12 was in 4 schools:
Texas
Oklahoma
Kansas
West Virginia

ESPN has already captured Texas and Oklahoma, now all they need to do is lasso Kansas and West Virginia into the ACC, and perhaps do some shuffling later to match schools to the right conferences.
We may start by moving Miami to the SEC and Missouri to the ACC to make Kansas and Missouri contiguous to the other ACC schools, while giving the SEC a needed second school in Florida.

Or just add Kansas to the SEC

If you remove Missouri from the SEC, they'll go straight to the B10.

And if anyone's moving from ACC first, it's FSU.

If you do add Kansas to the SEC, which SEC school then slides into the ACC?
The most likely candidates would be either Kentucky or South Carolina.

I thought South Carolina was really fed up with the ACC when they left; would they be induced to accept the transfer? I'm thinking that if Kansas went to the SEC, ESPN would want to balance the four bluebloods (KU and UK in the SEC; UNC and Duke in the ACC).

Nobody, not even Vanderbilt, is leaving the SEC for the ACC. At 18 Occam's razor says FSU and Kansas are stellar additions, unless of course (wink/wink) it was Kansas and Notre Dame.

(11-06-2022 06:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-06-2022 05:38 PM)EdwordL Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 09:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 10:39 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  The Big East contract with FOX does not expire until after the 2025 season, and it looks like FOX may have the inside track for renewal.

ESPN could however make selections from the Big 12 and place them in the ACC.

If you will recall it was widely agreed that the value in the Big 12 was in 4 schools:
Texas
Oklahoma
Kansas
West Virginia

ESPN has already captured Texas and Oklahoma, now all they need to do is lasso Kansas and West Virginia into the ACC, and perhaps do some shuffling later to match schools to the right conferences.
We may start by moving Miami to the SEC and Missouri to the ACC to make Kansas and Missouri contiguous to the other ACC schools, while giving the SEC a needed second school in Florida.

Or just add Kansas to the SEC

If you remove Missouri from the SEC, they'll go straight to the B10.

And if anyone's moving from ACC first, it's FSU.

If you do add Kansas to the SEC, which SEC school then slides into the ACC?
The most likely candidates would be either Kentucky or South Carolina.

I thought South Carolina was really fed up with the ACC when they left; would they be induced to accept the transfer? I'm thinking that if Kansas went to the SEC, ESPN would want to balance the four bluebloods (KU and UK in the SEC; UNC and Duke in the ACC).

Nobody, not even Vanderbilt, is leaving the SEC for the ACC. At 18 Occam's razor says FSU and Kansas are stellar additions, unless of course (wink/wink) it was Kansas and Notre Dame.

There is no need to be concerned about Vanderbilt, JR., I don't think ESPN wants to stretch the ACC beyond the Eastern Time Zone.

(11-06-2022 09:38 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-06-2022 06:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-06-2022 05:38 PM)EdwordL Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 09:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 10:39 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  Or just add Kansas to the SEC

If you remove Missouri from the SEC, they'll go straight to the B10.

And if anyone's moving from ACC first, it's FSU.

If you do add Kansas to the SEC, which SEC school then slides into the ACC?
The most likely candidates would be either Kentucky or South Carolina.

I thought South Carolina was really fed up with the ACC when they left; would they be induced to accept the transfer? I'm thinking that if Kansas went to the SEC, ESPN would want to balance the four bluebloods (KU and UK in the SEC; UNC and Duke in the ACC).

Nobody, not even Vanderbilt, is leaving the SEC for the ACC. At 18 Occam's razor says FSU and Kansas are stellar additions, unless of course (wink/wink) it was Kansas and Notre Dame.

There is no need to be concerned about Vanderbilt, JR., I don't think ESPN wants to stretch or pay the ACC.

FIFY

(09-11-2022 12:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 11:40 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 09:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 10:39 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  The Big East contract with FOX does not expire until after the 2025 season, and it looks like FOX may have the inside track for renewal.

ESPN could however make selections from the Big 12 and place them in the ACC.

If you will recall it was widely agreed that the value in the Big 12 was in 4 schools:
Texas
Oklahoma
Kansas
West Virginia

ESPN has already captured Texas and Oklahoma, now all they need to do is lasso Kansas and West Virginia into the ACC, and perhaps do some shuffling later to match schools to the right conferences.
We may start by moving Miami to the SEC and Missouri to the ACC to make Kansas and Missouri contiguous to the other ACC schools, while giving the SEC a needed second school in Florida.

Or just add Kansas to the SEC

If you remove Missouri from the SEC, they'll go straight to the B10.

And if anyone's moving from ACC first, it's FSU.

If you do add Kansas to the SEC, which SEC school then slides into the ACC?
The most likely candidates would be either Kentucky or South Carolina.

Well, technically, none need to go from SEC to ACC.

But if that's your goal, I think I suggested in some thread somewhere the idea to trade South Carolina (non-founding member of SEC) for Clemson and FSU from ACC.

then add KS to SEC for 18.

But you'd need to offer some motivating reason to SC for the move.

As for the ACC, they then could then add 3 more - Cinn, UCF, WV for 16+ND. (possibly add USF and Memphis for 18+ND)

No conference is going beyond 16 for quite a while.

ROFLMAO!!!

If you are wrong XLance, would you bungee jump off the roof of the Chapel Hill Walmart???

(11-06-2022 01:33 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  

(11-06-2022 11:36 AM)XLance Wrote:  The first step has been taken to keep the B1G out of the South.
That is the splitting of the Big 12 media rights between FOX and ESPN. ESPN has taken the majority of the football while FOX will concentrate on Big 12 basketball.
What is important is that not only must the ACC be strengthened, but the Big 12 and even the SEC need to be able to withstand the lure of the B1G.

Contrary to what others may believe, I think no conference will move beyond 16 members for the foreseeable future unless they could attain a strategic advantage (like a move by FSU to the B1G or Notre Dame to the SEC, neither of which I see happening).

So how do we make the Big 12, SEC and ACC more impenetrable?
Two trades. As one poster describes them, niche moves.
1-Louisville moves to the Big 12 to pair with Cincinnati while West Virginia enters the ACC to renew the Backyard Brawl and contend for the Black Diamond Trophy.
2-IN a long anticipated move FSU joins the SEC to help rebalance the conference and the anticipated strengthening of the western part of the conference. In return, South Carolina rejoins the ACC in an attempt to strengthen Georgia Tech's position and provide regional rivalries for South Carolina.

The Big 12 remains at 12 teams but Louisville's addition helps the Big 12 penetrate not only into Ohio but into southern Indiana as well.
Basketball will be much stronger and the core of the conference becomes tighter if only by a small margin.

The SEC gets stronger as a football conference and also gets FSU's emerging basketball.

The benefit to the ACC is that it becomes a much more regional conference and West Virginia helps knit the northern teams to the southern ones. South Carolina provides a big stadium school to make up for the FSU loss, but is accessible for visiting fans in a three hour ride for 6 conference rivals.

If ESPN sees that ACC needs to replace FSU with another Florida school. USF is waiting, is centrally located and is academically compatible with the core of ACC schools.
If ESPN deems USF necessary, that leaves the ACC with 15, all still in the ETZ with one spot available it it every becomes necessary.

Each of the three conferences have been strengthened, tighter and more compatible and much less vulnerable to B1G incursion.

That's not bad.

The best way to keep the B1G out of the South is to create a safe and secure environment for the schools that would be most likely tempted to join the B1G.
Making the ACC stronger with a more regional identity creates the buffer that ESPN needs to keep the B1G away and the SEC protected.

(11-07-2022 05:26 AM)XLance Wrote:  The best way to keep the B1G out of the South is to create a safe and secure environment for the schools that would be most likely tempted to join the B1G.
Making the ACC stronger with a more regional identity creates the buffer that ESPN needs to keep the B1G away and the SEC protected.

Would trading UL and WVU actually make the academic people happy in that conference? Doesn't seem like it would to me. They'd rather you get rid of UL and keep WVU away most likely.