With ESPN walking away from The Big Ten, are they playing the long game?

What’s The Big Picture or End Game for ESPN?

(08-22-2022 08:09 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With ESPN walking away from The Big Ten, are they playing the long game?

What’s The Big Picture or End Game for ESPN?

2 conferences of 24 each segregated by value and playing each other for an exclusive ESPN championship. With 48 schools voting in what is likely a 72-school breakaway ESPN wins the numbers game and the votes to establish the form and rules for the championship. The PAC/B1G either agrees or is left out. ESPN will have all but 2 of the past champions of the last 25 years. If ESPN lands ND in any capacity, it's all over perceptually as to who has the legitimate championship. And that will eat away at Ohio State and USC. Time will become ESPN's ally.

(08-22-2022 09:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 08:09 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With ESPN walking away from The Big Ten, are they playing the long game?

What’s The Big Picture or End Game for ESPN?

2 conferences of 24 each segregated by value and playing each other for an exclusive ESPN championship. With 48 schools voting in what is likely a 72-school breakaway ESPN wins the numbers game and the votes to establish the form and rules for the championship. The PAC/B1G either agrees or is left out. ESPN will have all but 2 of the past champions of the last 25 years. If ESPN lands ND in any capacity, it's all over perceptually as to who has the legitimate championship. And that will eat away at Ohio State and USC. Time will become ESPN's ally.

Isn’t that basically having the New York Yankees play a World Series against the Toledo Mud Hens?

No one is going to want to watch the A Division beat up the B Division champ and pretend they are watching a national championship.

There’s no incentive for the Big 10 to want to sign on to a 100% ESPN playoff. If ESPN is going to play it that way, the Big 10 will just institute their own conference playoff and play the title at the Rose Bowl on NYD.

(08-22-2022 10:37 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 09:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 08:09 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With ESPN walking away from The Big Ten, are they playing the long game?

What’s The Big Picture or End Game for ESPN?

2 conferences of 24 each segregated by value and playing each other for an exclusive ESPN championship. With 48 schools voting in what is likely a 72-school breakaway ESPN wins the numbers game and the votes to establish the form and rules for the championship. The PAC/B1G either agrees or is left out. ESPN will have all but 2 of the past champions of the last 25 years. If ESPN lands ND in any capacity, it's all over perceptually as to who has the legitimate championship. And that will eat away at Ohio State and USC. Time will become ESPN's ally.

Isn’t that basically having the New York Yankees play a World Series against the Toledo Mud Hens?

No one is going to want to watch the A Division beat up the B Division champ and pretend they are watching a national championship.

There’s no incentive for the Big 10 to want to sign on to a 100% ESPN playoff. If ESPN is going to play it that way, the Big 10 will just institute their own conference playoff and play the title at the Rose Bowl on NYD.

They'll handicap it with seeding and more will watch it than what happens in Pasadena.

With some selective pickups from The Big 12 along with the basketball members of the Big East, ESPN would have the best basketball and football programs under contract. That idea would bring together the most successful basketball and football programs of the last 20-30 years.

(08-22-2022 10:37 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  There’s no incentive for the Big 10 to want to sign on to a 100% ESPN playoff. If ESPN is going to play it that way, the Big 10 will just institute their own conference playoff and play the title at the Rose Bowl on NYD.

That’s probably a good idea. I can’t see Fox or ESPN caring either way.

(08-23-2022 08:04 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With some selective pickups from The Big 12 along with the basketball members of the Big East, ESPN would have the best basketball and football programs under contract. That idea would bring together the most successful basketball and football programs of the last 20-30 years.

The Big East contract with FOX does not expire until after the 2025 season, and it looks like FOX may have the inside track for renewal.

ESPN could however make selections from the Big 12 and place them in the ACC.

If you will recall it was widely agreed that the value in the Big 12 was in 4 schools:
Texas
Oklahoma
Kansas
West Virginia

ESPN has already captured Texas and Oklahoma, now all they need to do is lasso Kansas and West Virginia into the ACC, and perhaps do some shuffling later to match schools to the right conferences.
We may start by moving Miami to the SEC and Missouri to the ACC to make Kansas and Missouri contiguous to the other ACC schools, while giving the SEC a needed second school in Florida.

(08-22-2022 09:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 08:09 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With ESPN walking away from The Big Ten, are they playing the long game?

What’s The Big Picture or End Game for ESPN?

2 conferences of 24 each segregated by value and playing each other for an exclusive ESPN championship. With 48 schools voting in what is likely a 72-school breakaway ESPN wins the numbers game and the votes to establish the form and rules for the championship. The PAC/B1G either agrees or is left out. ESPN will have all but 2 of the past champions of the last 25 years. If ESPN lands ND in any capacity, it's all over perceptually as to who has the legitimate championship. And that will eat away at Ohio State and USC. Time will become ESPN's ally.

There is some precedent to this idea. I remember when the BCS (Bowl Championship Series) first started and it was called the BCA (Bowl Championship Alliance) because the BIG and the PAC would not agree to include the Rose Bowl in this Bowl agreement. A few years later, after the BIG and the PAC agreed to include the Rose Bowl, it became the BCS. I dont recall if the BIG or PAC ever played in the BCA bowls or not, but I think they did. I do think there is some merit to your point because it was almost that way back in the 90's.

(09-10-2022 09:11 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 09:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 08:09 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With ESPN walking away from The Big Ten, are they playing the long game?

What’s The Big Picture or End Game for ESPN?

2 conferences of 24 each segregated by value and playing each other for an exclusive ESPN championship. With 48 schools voting in what is likely a 72-school breakaway ESPN wins the numbers game and the votes to establish the form and rules for the championship. The PAC/B1G either agrees or is left out. ESPN will have all but 2 of the past champions of the last 25 years. If ESPN lands ND in any capacity, it's all over perceptually as to who has the legitimate championship. And that will eat away at Ohio State and USC. Time will become ESPN's ally.

There is some precedent to this idea. I remember when the BCS (Bowl Championship Series) first started and it was called the BCA (Bowl Championship Alliance) because the BIG and the PAC would not agree to include the Rose Bowl in this Bowl agreement. A few years later, after the BIG and the PAC agreed to include the Rose Bowl, it became the BCS. I dont recall if the BIG or PAC ever played in the BCA bowls or not, but I think they did. I do think there is some merit to your point because it was almost that way back in the 90's.

Keeping the two sides apart for a few years could set up the "super bowl scenario". Where ESPN and FOX have their own champion that finally meet in a winner take all game to determine the champion of champions.

(08-25-2022 07:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 08:04 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With some selective pickups from The Big 12 along with the basketball members of the Big East, ESPN would have the best basketball and football programs under contract. That idea would bring together the most successful basketball and football programs of the last 20-30 years.

The Big East contract with FOX does not expire until after the 2025 season, and it looks like FOX may have the inside track for renewal.

ESPN could however make selections from the Big 12 and place them in the ACC.

If you will recall it was widely agreed that the value in the Big 12 was in 4 schools:
Texas
Oklahoma
Kansas
West Virginia

ESPN has already captured Texas and Oklahoma, now all they need to do is lasso Kansas and West Virginia into the ACC, and perhaps do some shuffling later to match schools to the right conferences.
We may start by moving Miami to the SEC and Missouri to the ACC to make Kansas and Missouri contiguous to the other ACC schools, while giving the SEC a needed second school in Florida.

Or just add Kansas to the SEC

If you remove Missouri from the SEC, they'll go straight to the B10.

And if anyone's moving from ACC first, it's FSU.

"How do ESPN , The SEC and The ACC keep The Big Ten out of the South."

Most straight-forward way:

1.) espn gets the media rights to the B12
2.) Split the ACC between the SEC and the B12.
3.) ND likely goes independent (non-fb probably to the Big East)
4.) Move Kansas and OK state to the SEC.
5.) Add SMU, Rice, Memphis, and USF to B12.

This limits the B10 to only adding PAC schools.

Granted, this presumes that none of the schools below decide to join the B10 instead of the SEC or B12.

-------
(sorted by region - re-arrange how you like.)

SEC - 28
Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma state, Texas, Texas A&M

Florida, Florida State, Miami, Georgia, Georgia tech, South Carolina, Clemson

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana State

VA, VA tech, NC, NC state, Duke, Vanderbilt, Louisville

B12 - 18
Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Wake Forest, Memphis, UCF, USF

Iowa state, Kansas state, Baylor, Houston, Rice, SMU, TCU, Texas tech, BYU

(09-10-2022 10:39 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 08:04 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With some selective pickups from The Big 12 along with the basketball members of the Big East, ESPN would have the best basketball and football programs under contract. That idea would bring together the most successful basketball and football programs of the last 20-30 years.

The Big East contract with FOX does not expire until after the 2025 season, and it looks like FOX may have the inside track for renewal.

ESPN could however make selections from the Big 12 and place them in the ACC.

If you will recall it was widely agreed that the value in the Big 12 was in 4 schools:
Texas
Oklahoma
Kansas
West Virginia

ESPN has already captured Texas and Oklahoma, now all they need to do is lasso Kansas and West Virginia into the ACC, and perhaps do some shuffling later to match schools to the right conferences.
We may start by moving Miami to the SEC and Missouri to the ACC to make Kansas and Missouri contiguous to the other ACC schools, while giving the SEC a needed second school in Florida.

Or just add Kansas to the SEC

If you remove Missouri from the SEC, they'll go straight to the B10.

And if anyone's moving from ACC first, it's FSU.

If you do add Kansas to the SEC, which SEC school then slides into the ACC?
The most likely candidates would be either Kentucky or South Carolina.

(09-11-2022 09:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 10:39 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 08:04 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With some selective pickups from The Big 12 along with the basketball members of the Big East, ESPN would have the best basketball and football programs under contract. That idea would bring together the most successful basketball and football programs of the last 20-30 years.

The Big East contract with FOX does not expire until after the 2025 season, and it looks like FOX may have the inside track for renewal.

ESPN could however make selections from the Big 12 and place them in the ACC.

If you will recall it was widely agreed that the value in the Big 12 was in 4 schools:
Texas
Oklahoma
Kansas
West Virginia

ESPN has already captured Texas and Oklahoma, now all they need to do is lasso Kansas and West Virginia into the ACC, and perhaps do some shuffling later to match schools to the right conferences.
We may start by moving Miami to the SEC and Missouri to the ACC to make Kansas and Missouri contiguous to the other ACC schools, while giving the SEC a needed second school in Florida.

Or just add Kansas to the SEC

If you remove Missouri from the SEC, they'll go straight to the B10.

And if anyone's moving from ACC first, it's FSU.

If you do add Kansas to the SEC, which SEC school then slides into the ACC?
The most likely candidates would be either Kentucky or South Carolina.

Well, technically, none need to go from SEC to ACC.

But if that's your goal, I think I suggested in some thread somewhere the idea to trade South Carolina (non-founding member of SEC) for Clemson and FSU from ACC.

then add KS to SEC for 18.

But you'd need to offer some motivating reason to SC for the move.

As for the ACC, they then could then add 3 more - Cinn, UCF, WV for 16+ND. (possibly add USF and Memphis for 18+ND)

(09-11-2022 11:40 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 09:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 10:39 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 08:04 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With some selective pickups from The Big 12 along with the basketball members of the Big East, ESPN would have the best basketball and football programs under contract. That idea would bring together the most successful basketball and football programs of the last 20-30 years.

The Big East contract with FOX does not expire until after the 2025 season, and it looks like FOX may have the inside track for renewal.

ESPN could however make selections from the Big 12 and place them in the ACC.

If you will recall it was widely agreed that the value in the Big 12 was in 4 schools:
Texas
Oklahoma
Kansas
West Virginia

ESPN has already captured Texas and Oklahoma, now all they need to do is lasso Kansas and West Virginia into the ACC, and perhaps do some shuffling later to match schools to the right conferences.
We may start by moving Miami to the SEC and Missouri to the ACC to make Kansas and Missouri contiguous to the other ACC schools, while giving the SEC a needed second school in Florida.

Or just add Kansas to the SEC

If you remove Missouri from the SEC, they'll go straight to the B10.

And if anyone's moving from ACC first, it's FSU.

If you do add Kansas to the SEC, which SEC school then slides into the ACC?
The most likely candidates would be either Kentucky or South Carolina.

Well, technically, none need to go from SEC to ACC.

But if that's your goal, I think I suggested in some thread somewhere the idea to trade South Carolina (non-founding member of SEC) for Clemson and FSU from ACC.

then add KS to SEC for 18.

But you'd need to offer some motivating reason to SC for the move.

As for the ACC, they then could then add 3 more - Cinn, UCF, WV for 16+ND. (possibly add USF and Memphis for 18+ND)

No conference is going beyond 16 for quite a while.

(09-11-2022 12:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 11:40 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 09:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 10:39 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  The Big East contract with FOX does not expire until after the 2025 season, and it looks like FOX may have the inside track for renewal.

ESPN could however make selections from the Big 12 and place them in the ACC.

If you will recall it was widely agreed that the value in the Big 12 was in 4 schools:
Texas
Oklahoma
Kansas
West Virginia

ESPN has already captured Texas and Oklahoma, now all they need to do is lasso Kansas and West Virginia into the ACC, and perhaps do some shuffling later to match schools to the right conferences.
We may start by moving Miami to the SEC and Missouri to the ACC to make Kansas and Missouri contiguous to the other ACC schools, while giving the SEC a needed second school in Florida.

Or just add Kansas to the SEC

If you remove Missouri from the SEC, they'll go straight to the B10.

And if anyone's moving from ACC first, it's FSU.

If you do add Kansas to the SEC, which SEC school then slides into the ACC?
The most likely candidates would be either Kentucky or South Carolina.

Well, technically, none need to go from SEC to ACC.

But if that's your goal, I think I suggested in some thread somewhere the idea to trade South Carolina (non-founding member of SEC) for Clemson and FSU from ACC.

then add KS to SEC for 18.

But you'd need to offer some motivating reason to SC for the move.

As for the ACC, they then could then add 3 more - Cinn, UCF, WV for 16+ND. (possibly add USF and Memphis for 18+ND)

No conference is going beyond 16 for quite a while.

depends on how one defines "quite a while".

technically both the B10 and SEC are currently at 14...

(09-11-2022 02:42 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 12:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 11:40 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 09:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 10:39 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  Or just add Kansas to the SEC

If you remove Missouri from the SEC, they'll go straight to the B10.

And if anyone's moving from ACC first, it's FSU.

If you do add Kansas to the SEC, which SEC school then slides into the ACC?
The most likely candidates would be either Kentucky or South Carolina.

Well, technically, none need to go from SEC to ACC.

But if that's your goal, I think I suggested in some thread somewhere the idea to trade South Carolina (non-founding member of SEC) for Clemson and FSU from ACC.

then add KS to SEC for 18.

But you'd need to offer some motivating reason to SC for the move.

As for the ACC, they then could then add 3 more - Cinn, UCF, WV for 16+ND. (possibly add USF and Memphis for 18+ND)

No conference is going beyond 16 for quite a while.

depends on how one defines "quite a while".

technically both the B10 and SEC are currently at 14...

Probably not until 2037.

(09-11-2022 04:25 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 02:42 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 12:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 11:40 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 09:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  If you do add Kansas to the SEC, which SEC school then slides into the ACC?
The most likely candidates would be either Kentucky or South Carolina.

Well, technically, none need to go from SEC to ACC.

But if that's your goal, I think I suggested in some thread somewhere the idea to trade South Carolina (non-founding member of SEC) for Clemson and FSU from ACC.

then add KS to SEC for 18.

But you'd need to offer some motivating reason to SC for the move.

As for the ACC, they then could then add 3 more - Cinn, UCF, WV for 16+ND. (possibly add USF and Memphis for 18+ND)

No conference is going beyond 16 for quite a while.

depends on how one defines "quite a while".

technically both the B10 and SEC are currently at 14...

Probably not until 2037.

The CFP committee had a called meeting last week. It one item on the agenda, a proposal outlining the steps which would be required to expand the playoffs at the end of the 2024 season. If expansion moves up, so too will realignment agendas. The SEC and B1G will be looking at ways to both expand their lineup of contenders while padding their middles and adding a needed niche or two.

Breaking away from the NCAA could facilitate the development of hoops as well.

So, X, you may wish to think 12 years earlier, maybe even by the Summer of 2023 with movement in 2024. If you think the world waits on the ACC then you would be wrong, and if you think the ACC will let the world pass them by then you are merely doubling down on wrong.

Football change will happen soon. Hoops will depend on contracts but does give the breakaway some time develop infrastructure for other sports.

The money is there so movement will be as well.

(09-11-2022 04:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:25 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 02:42 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 12:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 11:40 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  Well, technically, none need to go from SEC to ACC.

But if that's your goal, I think I suggested in some thread somewhere the idea to trade South Carolina (non-founding member of SEC) for Clemson and FSU from ACC.

then add KS to SEC for 18.

But you'd need to offer some motivating reason to SC for the move.

As for the ACC, they then could then add 3 more - Cinn, UCF, WV for 16+ND. (possibly add USF and Memphis for 18+ND)

No conference is going beyond 16 for quite a while.

depends on how one defines "quite a while".

technically both the B10 and SEC are currently at 14...

Probably not until 2037.

The CFP committee had a called meeting last week. It one item on the agenda, a proposal outlining the steps which would be required to expand the playoffs at the end of the 2024 season. If expansion moves up, so too will realignment agendas. The SEC and B1G will be looking at ways to both expand their lineup of contenders while padding their middles and adding a needed niche or two.

Breaking away from the NCAA could facilitate the development of hoops as well.

So, X, you may wish to think 12 years earlier, maybe even by the Summer of 2023 with movement in 2024. If you think the world waits on the ACC then you would be wrong, and if you think the ACC will let the world pass them by then you are merely doubling down on wrong.

Football change will happen soon. Hoops will depend on contracts but does give the breakaway some time develop infrastructure for other sports.

The money is there so movement will be as well.

It was my understanding that the proposal to move to a 12 team playoff included the top 6 conference champions and 6 top at large teams.
In those terms reducing the P5 down to P3 makes absolutely no sense, unless of course you want to see the CUSA champion in the playoffs every year.

With the B1G now off of the table for ESPN and broadcast rights uncertain for the Big 12 and the PAC, the Mouse is smart enough to keep their two guaranteed pools of inventory happy and healthy.

(09-12-2022 04:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:25 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 02:42 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 12:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  No conference is going beyond 16 for quite a while.

depends on how one defines "quite a while".

technically both the B10 and SEC are currently at 14...

Probably not until 2037.

The CFP committee had a called meeting last week. It one item on the agenda, a proposal outlining the steps which would be required to expand the playoffs at the end of the 2024 season. If expansion moves up, so too will realignment agendas. The SEC and B1G will be looking at ways to both expand their lineup of contenders while padding their middles and adding a needed niche or two.

Breaking away from the NCAA could facilitate the development of hoops as well.

So, X, you may wish to think 12 years earlier, maybe even by the Summer of 2023 with movement in 2024. If you think the world waits on the ACC then you would be wrong, and if you think the ACC will let the world pass them by then you are merely doubling down on wrong.

Football change will happen soon. Hoops will depend on contracts but does give the breakaway some time develop infrastructure for other sports.

The money is there so movement will be as well.

It was my understanding that the proposal to move to a 12 team playoff included the top 6 conference champions and 6 top at large teams.
In those terms reducing the P5 down to P3 makes absolutely no sense, unless of course you want to see the CUSA champion in the playoffs every year.

With the B1G now off of the table for ESPN and broadcast rights uncertain for the Big 12 and the PAC, the Mouse is smart enough to keep their two guaranteed pools of inventory happy and healthy.

Didn't the BCS alter its format when the Big East was gutted on the football side?

Don't you think the CFP can make slight alterations to their format in order to reflect the reality on the ground? We're not talking about the NCAA here. The CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense.

(09-12-2022 06:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 04:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:25 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 02:42 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  depends on how one defines "quite a while".

technically both the B10 and SEC are currently at 14...

Probably not until 2037.

The CFP committee had a called meeting last week. It one item on the agenda, a proposal outlining the steps which would be required to expand the playoffs at the end of the 2024 season. If expansion moves up, so too will realignment agendas. The SEC and B1G will be looking at ways to both expand their lineup of contenders while padding their middles and adding a needed niche or two.

Breaking away from the NCAA could facilitate the development of hoops as well.

So, X, you may wish to think 12 years earlier, maybe even by the Summer of 2023 with movement in 2024. If you think the world waits on the ACC then you would be wrong, and if you think the ACC will let the world pass them by then you are merely doubling down on wrong.

Football change will happen soon. Hoops will depend on contracts but does give the breakaway some time develop infrastructure for other sports.

The money is there so movement will be as well.

It was my understanding that the proposal to move to a 12 team playoff included the top 6 conference champions and 6 top at large teams.
In those terms reducing the P5 down to P3 makes absolutely no sense, unless of course you want to see the CUSA champion in the playoffs every year.

With the B1G now off of the table for ESPN and broadcast rights uncertain for the Big 12 and the PAC, the Mouse is smart enough to keep their two guaranteed pools of inventory happy and healthy.

Didn't the BCS alter its format when the Big East was gutted on the football side?

Don't you think the CFP can make slight alterations to their format in order to reflect the reality on the ground? We're not talking about the NCAA here. The CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense.

IIRC part of the delay until 2024 was to allow the CFP to let contracts for venues and alter schedules to fit the new format.
That represents a whole lot of legal backtracking and contract penalty payoffs on the part of the CFP if things are altered. And as you, yourself have averred, the CFP is actually operated by people who have some sort of business sense, and they wouldn't put themselves in a vulnerable legal situation that could become costly.