(03-25-2022 07:36 AM)schmolik Wrote: (03-23-2022 11:58 PM)jimrtex Wrote: (03-23-2022 09:01 PM)esayem Wrote: Side note, anybody else notice MSG won’t be hosting the NIT semis and finals the next two seasons? WTF! It’s a NY tradition!! Is MSG planning on hosting NCAA tournament games?
https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/nit...rld-reacts
MSG does have a NCAA regional in 2023, but nothing else through 2026.
It is kind of weird that this is just now being publicly discussed. The bid was due in February.
NIT Final Four Bid Application (PDF)
I did final an article from February about St.Louis making two bids, one for Enterprise Arena (where the Blues play) and one for Chaifetz Arena (on-campus facility of the Billikens).
The bid requirement is only for 7500 seats. St.Bonaventure doesn't quite qualify, but maybe they could get Buffalo to bid.
New York in the past has hosted regional play (2014 and 2017) and the NIT Final Four in the same year so the fact that they are hosting the regional isn't the reason they aren't hosting the NIT.
It might be because of the 2014 and 2017 regionals that MSG gave up on the NIT (along with 2020 and 2021).
The NIT was owned by the MIBA (Metropolitan Intercollegiate Basketball Association). I had thought the MIBA was just some private club, but it was actually St.John's, Manhattan, Fordham, NYU, and Wagner.
Until 1977 all four rounds were in New York, originally over almost two weeks and then compressed to one week. But that would be 16 games in a week. For example, in 1975 there 4 games each on Saturday and Sunday (March 15 and 16). The quarterfinals were on Wednesday and Thursday (March 19 and 20). The semifinals and finals were on Saturday March 21 and Sunday March 22. For a nearby school such as La Salle or UConn or Rutgers, you could travel to each game and your fans could attend. But for out-of-town half would be eliminated in their first game, and another 1/4 by the next. Fans might decide to wait before traveling.
In 1977, the first round was moved to campus sites. In 1978 the first two rounds were held on campus. In 1979 the field was expanded to 24, and then in 1980 to 32, with an additional round on campus sites.
Meanwhile between 1974 and 1985 the size of the NCAA tournament increased from 25 teams to 64, and the NCAA began taking multiple teams from conferences. If the NIT could still have Memphis, North Carolina, Villanova, Wisconsin, Baylor, UCLA, Tennessee (and Kentucky, Notre Dame, UConn, and Texas Tech, if they were willing to take 3rd place teams) they'd still be a big thing. Instead you had three games in New York. It might be a big thing to get to New York, but it was less so to those who lived in NY, and could watch the Knicks or Nets on a regular basis, or if they were more college fans, St.John's or other Big East teams. St.John's played 5 of its home games this season at MSG (against Pitt, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Villanova, and UConn, likely the biggest draws). The other 16 were played out in Queens. And more recently the Big East tournament has been played at MSG (since 1983). In 2009, all 16 Big East teams participated in a format that had 4 games on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.
When the MIBA sued the NCAA on antitrust grounds, they claimed the NCAA was attempting to put them out of business by expanding the NCAA tournament, and compelling schools to play in the NCAA tournament, and preventing college teams playing after the date of the NCAA championship.
The MIBA sued in 2001. In 2002 and 2003 the NIT invited several teams who were subsequently chosen for the NCAA tournament. Those who did not receive a NCAA bid did accept the NIT bid.
The MIBA/NIT interpreted this to mean that: but for the NCAA berth and the NCAA rules the school might have chosen the NIT bid; the NCAA interpretation was that the schools preferred to compete for the national championship. The MIBA/NIT argued that it did not could not be determined what the preference was, since the schools were required to play in the NCAA tournament.
This opinion from 2004 when a court denied summary judgment for MIBA sets out the various issues.
MIBA v NCAA
In 2005, after the case was heard, the two sides settled. The NCAA agreed to pay the five schools $56 million paid out over 10 years. They also agreed to play the tournament in New York for the next five years (I think 2006 to 2010).
There were no NCAA tournament games at MSG from 1961 to 2014. The games in 1961 were played at the old building, which was replaced in 1968. So there must have been some unwritten rule that the NIT would be played at MSG, and the NCAA would not. MSG would likely have a different relationship with the NCAA than that with the MIBA which was just five local schools.
So the relationship went from MSG and the local schools cooperatively holding an event, to more of an outside entity (NCAA) renting MSG for two midweek nights in late March.
The NCAA probably does not want to kill off the NIT since that is what they were accused of trying to do. They could add some flavor, such as giving AQ to regular season champions not in the main field, or using experimental rules (the shot clock was reduced to 30 seconds in the 2015 NIT, before switching universally in the summer of 2015.
Maybe the MIBA didn't want the NCAA playing in MSG. Maybe MSG wanted to bid for the NCAA once MIBA was out of the picture. But the NCAA regionals in 2014 and 2017 may have demonstrated to MSG that the NIT had become a secondary event.
In 2014, the NCAA regional had Virginia (1st in the ACC), while the NIT had Clemson and FSU, who were 6th and 9th in the ACC. NCAA: Michigan State, 4th in the B1G, NIT: Minnesota 7th in BIG; and NCAA: UConn, 2nd in the AAC, NIT: 3rd in the AAC. Tne NCAA had the top four seeds.
UConn would have pulled in locals for the NCAA and you would have had more enthusiasm for teams battling for Final 4, and Virginia is closer to NYC than Clemson and FSU; as is Michigan State than Minnesota.
The NCAA regionals were played on Friday and Sunday. The NIT was played on the following Tuesday and Thursday, and were definitely anti-climax.
The Rangers and Knicks also play at MSG, and they are required to play home games at MSG to secure a tax break for MSG. They don't like playing on the road for a full week (and may want to avoid going up against the Final Four the following weekend).
The 2020 NIT was cancelled, and the 2021 version was played in Frisco. Last fall, the NCAA may have been making contingency plans for going back to Frisco, as dozens of basketball games were being cancelled.
The NCAA likes to bid out championship sites years in advance. Last fall, they awarded 450 championship sites going out into 2026. Bids for events like the NCAA regionals permit the host site to bid for several years, with the understanding that the NCAA will only give them one.
This was when the 2023 regionals were awarded to MSG. And it might have been that which triggered the NIT/MSG split, since the bid deadline for 2023 and 2024 NIT's was this February. The NCAA was just following their standard practice of bidding out multiple years.
If 2023 works out, the NIT finals might be moved permanently. MSG could bid just like any other location. If 2023 and 2024 are flops, they can go back to MSG.
