(03-03-2022 04:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's boil it down since none of you can. It's a shot. Like the flu shot it reduces the chance you get seriously ill. It is not a vaccine like smallpox, measles, and whatever else I took as a baby. If the medical community would have just started with that narrative, you wouldn't have all this bull****.

Yes and no. The Johnson & Johnson gives you a small dose of COVID, just like the flu shot.

Moderna and Pfizer change your MRNA and DNA.

(03-03-2022 04:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's boil it down since none of you can. It's a shot. Like the flu shot it reduces the chance you get seriously ill. It is not a vaccine like smallpox, measles, and whatever else I took as a baby. If the medical com:stirthepot:munity would have just started with that narrative, you wouldn't have all this bull****.

In summation - what he said ^

(03-03-2022 06:49 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 04:59 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 01:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, a vaccine that is 95% effective at best according to its manufacturers, still results in some people dying from Covid after they've had the vaccine?

Gee, how's that even possible?

So you want us to get a vaccine thats 95% effective, at best, for a virus that has a survival rate of 99.9%... yeah, thats some good math there.

Yes.

You have seen the statistics about who's still dying in larger numbers from Covid between vaccinated and non-vaccinated, right?

HINT: It's not the vaccinated.

And believe it or not, I don't want anyone to die from Covid. Even the morons who refuse to get vaccinated.

Tom, you really do only believe what you pick up from MSM and the internet. Newsflash boy wonder vaxxed people are dying from Covid. My daughter has two really good nurse friends working in ICU in different Houston hospitals and they tell her all the time that almost all the deaths lately are vaxxed. Makes sense since most have already been vaxxed.

Here's my summary:

1) The "Medical Establishment" has lost the trust of many people. Not because these people are all evil because the majority of them are fine people doing their best. Edicts came down from the supposed "experts" in our government health agencies (NIH, NIAID, FDA, CDC) on what must be done to treat covid. They ignored (and forbade) proven therapeutics that work with long track records so they could push an 'emergency use authorization' experimental jab with NO long term safety studies. They pushed and the government pushed and pressured corporations to push EVERYBODY to partake in their experiment and get the jab.

Many doctors did not use their craniums and look into this but just went along with the edicts. Other docs and researchers who did look into it and found alarming issues were quickly silenced, some having their medical licenses pulled for disagreement with the edicts. Censorship of these dissenting voices became rampant. Suddenly, discussions on the best course of treatment became verboten. "Evidence based medicine" and treatment has been lost, replaced by 'one size fits all' medicine. Many people died needlessly due to medical malpractice condoned by our own government and tolerated by the medical establishment.

Coercion is not medical treatment but rather a loss of your own bodily autonomy with yourself as the ultimate decider.

Hospitals became killing centers by following the 'protocols' sent down from the government on what to do with covid patients. The financial rewards were such that hospitals could not ignore the edicts if they wanted the windfalls of cash. Fauci and those who created the protocols KNEW that using Remdesivir on patients would likely kill many people, since they had to halt using the drug during the Ebola epidemic for that very reason. Putting people on Remdisivir and a ventilator was a death sentence and many, many people have died in the hospitals from those protocols being followed. They even forbade doctors from using therapeutics while patients were hospitalized. The coming lawsuits will be epic and deserved. Whatever happened to "first, do no harm?"

The medical establishment has done this to themselves and deserves scorn for it. Many of us will never trust those in the medical establishment again, for good reason. They sold out to Big Pharma and sold us out regarding appropriate personal healthcare.

2) Misinformation and disinformation became rampant. Who defines it? Those in power. Much of the misinformation came from our own public health authorities with a big assist by our corrupt media. Only one narrative was/is allowed. Get the shot, it is safe and effective! Says who? Why can we not get accurate statistics on this covid issue and the shots? Like everything else these days, this became an information war.

3) The shot is a bioweapon with the spike protein that it forces your body to make the culprit in many adverse reactions. You can quibble about the death statistics but it is clear to thinking people who have looked into it that this shot has caused more deaths than all previous vaccines in history combined. When another previous vaccine caused 50 some deaths, it was halted. Not so for this one. It causes most people to ask WHY? Is there some other agenda at play here with this shot?

4) This became extremely politicized because one party wished to get rid of a President that they didn't like. When he said he had put operation warp speed into effect to create vaccines more quickly, politicians in that party couldn't wait to get in front of a microphone to tell us they would NOT be getting one of Trump's vaccines. After Trump left office, they couldn't wait to tell you that they had the shots and you need one, too. Because of this politicization, having a rational discussion of covid and the shot became nearly impossible.

5) The politicized nature of covid and the government push to get all people to take the shot led the government to cook the books and create false statistics to ramp up the irrational fear in people. It worked very well. "Cases" of covid lead every newscast, even when many of those people had no symptoms. When deaths started falling, they continued the fear campaign of "cases." Testing every person that walked in the door of a medical establishment for covid ramped it up even more.

6) The PCR tests that were used were never intended as a diagnostic test according to the inventor who said it could detect almost anything in anybody, especially if the cycle number of amplifications was ramped way up. Many, many false positives were recorded as the test is basically useless. Early on, they were using up to 40 cycles. At 20 cycles the number of false results drops dramatically. In addition, since NOBODY in any lab in the world has an isolated sample of this supposed covid virus, they created the test using part of the sequence of a different coronavirus that causes the common cold. We really don't know if the test was picking up the common cold, this covid or the flu, whose numbers mysteriously dropped precipitously during covid hysteria.

In summary you had a flawed test creating a high number of positives, a government who conflated deaths with covid and deaths from covid, a hyper focus on (bogus) case numbers to fan the fear, and a government who insisted that you take an experimental shot to join this giant medical experiment. Hospital systems, highly incentivized financially, became killing centers.

Yet, many of us saw no reason to get involved and refused an unnecessary injection. We saw media pundits, celebrities and even the current pResident villify us for making our own medical decisions. Now, the pResident wants us to forget what was done and pretend he was with us the whole time.

That's my take and I'm sticking to it. In the coming months and years, more info will come out as to how this happened. I look forward to it.

(03-03-2022 04:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 04:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's boil it down since none of you can. It's a shot. Like the flu shot it reduces the chance you get seriously ill. It is not a vaccine like smallpox, measles, and whatever else I took as a baby. If the medical community would have just started with that narrative, you wouldn't have all this bull****.

Yes and no. The Johnson & Johnson gives you a small dose of COVID, just like the flu shot.

Moderna and Pfizer change your MRNA and DNA.

You a fake doctor like Tom? Or did his shift end and yours is just beginning?

(03-03-2022 06:58 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  You a fake doctor like Tom? Or did his shift end and yours is just beginning?

Just being entertained by the fact that someone could actually believe the shot changes their DNA.

(03-03-2022 06:35 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  Here's my summary:

1) The "Medical Establishment" has lost the trust of many people. Not because these people are all evil because the majority of them are fine people doing their best. Edicts came down from the supposed "experts" in our government health agencies (NIH, NIAID, FDA, CDC) on what must be done to treat covid. They ignored (and forbade) proven therapeutics that work with long track records so they could push an 'emergency use authorization' experimental jab with NO long term safety studies. They pushed and the government pushed and pressured corporations to push EVERYBODY to partake in their experiment and get the jab.

Many doctors did not use their craniums and look into this but just went along with the edicts. Other docs and researchers who did look into it and found alarming issues were quickly silenced, some having their medical licenses pulled for disagreement with the edicts. Censorship of these dissenting voices became rampant. Suddenly, discussions on the best course of treatment became verboten. "Evidence based medicine" and treatment has been lost, replaced by 'one size fits all' medicine. Many people died needlessly due to medical malpractice condoned by our own government and tolerated by the medical establishment.

Coercion is not medical treatment but rather a loss of your own bodily autonomy with yourself as the ultimate decider.

Hospitals became killing centers by following the 'protocols' sent down from the government on what to do with covid patients. The financial rewards were such that hospitals could not ignore the edicts if they wanted the windfalls of cash. Fauci and those who created the protocols KNEW that using Remdesivir on patients would likely kill many people, since they had to halt using the drug during the Ebola epidemic for that very reason. Putting people on Remdisivir and a ventilator was a death sentence and many, many people have died in the hospitals from those protocols being followed. They even forbade doctors from using therapeutics while patients were hospitalized. The coming lawsuits will be epic and deserved. Whatever happened to "first, do no harm?"

The medical establishment has done this to themselves and deserves scorn for it. Many of us will never trust those in the medical establishment again, for good reason. They sold out to Big Pharma and sold us out regarding appropriate personal healthcare.

2) Misinformation and disinformation became rampant. Who defines it? Those in power. Much of the misinformation came from our own public health authorities with a big assist by our corrupt media. Only one narrative was/is allowed. Get the shot, it is safe and effective! Says who? Why can we not get accurate statistics on this covid issue and the shots? Like everything else these days, this became an information war.

3) The shot is a bioweapon with the spike protein that it forces your body to make the culprit in many adverse reactions. You can quibble about the death statistics but it is clear to thinking people who have looked into it that this shot has caused more deaths than all previous vaccines in history combined. When another previous vaccine caused 50 some deaths, it was halted. Not so for this one. It causes most people to ask WHY? Is there some other agenda at play here with this shot?

4) This became extremely politicized because one party wished to get rid of a President that they didn't like. When he said he had put operation warp speed into effect to create vaccines more quickly, politicians in that party couldn't wait to get in front of a microphone to tell us they would NOT be getting one of Trump's vaccines. After Trump left office, they couldn't wait to tell you that they had the shots and you need one, too. Because of this politicization, having a rational discussion of covid and the shot became nearly impossible.

5) The politicized nature of covid and the government push to get all people to take the shot led the government to cook the books and create false statistics to ramp up the irrational fear in people. It worked very well. "Cases" of covid lead every newscast, even when many of those people had no symptoms. When deaths started falling, they continued the fear campaign of "cases." Testing every person that walked in the door of a medical establishment for covid ramped it up even more.

6) The PCR tests that were used were never intended as a diagnostic test according to the inventor who said it could detect almost anything in anybody, especially if the cycle number of amplifications was ramped way up. Many, many false positives were recorded as the test is basically useless. Early on, they were using up to 40 cycles. At 20 cycles the number of false results drops dramatically. In addition, since NOBODY in any lab in the world has an isolated sample of this supposed covid virus, they created the test using part of the sequence of a different coronavirus that causes the common cold. We really don't know if the test was picking up the common cold, this covid or the flu, whose numbers mysteriously dropped precipitously during covid hysteria.

In summary you had a flawed test creating a high number of positives, a government who conflated deaths with covid and deaths from covid, a hyper focus on (bogus) case numbers to fan the fear, and a government who insisted that you take an experimental shot to join this giant medical experiment. Hospital systems, highly incentivized financially, became killing centers.

Yet, many of us saw no reason to get involved and refused an unnecessary injection. We saw media pundits, celebrities and even the current pResident villify us for making our own medical decisions. Now, the pResident wants us to forget what was done and pretend he was with us the whole time.

That's my take and I'm sticking to it. In the coming months and years, more info will come out as to how this happened. I look forward to it.

I agree with you except for #3.
I got the vaccine and booster and would do it again. But I don't trust anything from the CDC. I made my decisions looking at actual science from places like Israel where it hasn't been politicized and the scientists and doctors aren't constantly lying to the people.

Its clear the vaccine dramatically reduces your risk of serious disease and death. But it clearly does not eliminate it. So people at high risk should know they still shouldn't hang out in bars. I had my 19/20 year olds get the vaccine, but I don't think I would have an 11 year old get it. And for those under 5, it appears to be a totally unnecessary risk.

The CDC has lied about masks, lied about treatments and lied about the vaccine. Fauci has lied about everything and should be investigated for mass murder in his part in creating the virus and covering up its origins.

(03-03-2022 07:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 07:07 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  No hold on a sec.

Dying FROM the ‘Rona, or dying WITH the ‘Rona?

Can you point to those numbers? Certainly the CDC can’t.

They’re supposedly tryin, but they can’t.

TIA

Quote:During October–November, unvaccinated persons had 13.9 and 53.2 times the risks for infection and COVID-19–associated death, respectively, compared with fully vaccinated persons who received booster doses, and 4.0 and 12.7 times the risks compared with fully vaccinated persons without booster doses.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/m...r%20doses.

Here’s the problem Tom, the CDC has played games with the numbers from very early on the Covid stuff and continues to play games with the numbers.

Excuse me if I trust the CDC’s Covid numbers about as much as the truthfulness on the National Enquirer.

(03-03-2022 07:48 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 06:58 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  You a fake doctor like Tom? Or did his shift end and yours is just beginning?

Just being entertained by the fact that someone could actually believe the shot changes their DNA.

Here’s the thing U, nobody knows the long term effects, if any.

We do know that it can cause heart issues in the younger populations, particularly boys. Yet, the government and big pharma are still pushing to to force jabs clear down to little 2/3 year kids.

They have lied almost from the get go about many things Covid - excuse me if I have no trust in them, Period.

(03-03-2022 04:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 04:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's boil it down since none of you can. It's a shot. Like the flu shot it reduces the chance you get seriously ill. It is not a vaccine like smallpox, measles, and whatever else I took as a baby. If the medical community would have just started with that narrative, you wouldn't have all this bull****.

Yes and no. The Johnson & Johnson gives you a small dose of COVID, just like the flu shot.

Moderna and Pfizer change your MRNA and DNA.

. That's not supported by ANY facts.

(03-03-2022 09:39 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 07:48 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 06:58 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  You a fake doctor like Tom? Or did his shift end and yours is just beginning?

Just being entertained by the fact that someone could actually believe the shot changes their DNA.

Here’s the thing U, nobody knows the long term effects, if any.

Here's the problem though. We've been giving shots for quite a while...to MILLIONS of people...for only close to a year less than people were getting Covid. The effects from the shot so far have been mostly temporary, while the effects of Covid can be lengthy and persistent...and we don't know what they'll be in the coming years either.

But by the basic nature of how mRNA vaccines work, the body handles them in a couple weeks, so it stands to reason that long term issues would be rare.

(03-03-2022 09:33 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 07:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 07:07 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  No hold on a sec.

Dying FROM the ‘Rona, or dying WITH the ‘Rona?

Can you point to those numbers? Certainly the CDC can’t.

They’re supposedly tryin, but they can’t.

TIA

Quote:During October–November, unvaccinated persons had 13.9 and 53.2 times the risks for infection and COVID-19–associated death, respectively, compared with fully vaccinated persons who received booster doses, and 4.0 and 12.7 times the risks compared with fully vaccinated persons without booster doses.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/m...r%20doses.

Here’s the problem Tom, the CDC has played games with the numbers from very early on the Covid stuff and continues to play games with the numbers.

Excuse me if I trust the CDC’s Covid numbers about as much as the truthfulness on the National Enquirer.

But they're not the only ones studying this.

This is from the Brits:

Quote:People who had received three doses of a COVID-19 vaccine or a booster were 93.4% less likely to die of the infection compared to the unvaccinated, according to a new U.K. study published on Friday.

Researchers at the British Office for National Statistics (ONS), found that mortality rates for people who contract COVID dropped substantially 21 days after receiving their booster. For COVID patients who received only two doses of a vaccine, mortality risks were also much lower, but to a lesser degree—they were 81.2% less likely to die compared to unvaccinated people.

Researchers adjusted for differences in population size and age demographics when crunching the data, which was collected between July and December 2021.

Fully vaccinated people are 93% less likely to die of COVID compared to unvaccinated people

(03-03-2022 09:39 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 07:48 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 06:58 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  You a fake doctor like Tom? Or did his shift end and yours is just beginning?

Just being entertained by the fact that someone could actually believe the shot changes their DNA.

Here’s the thing U, nobody knows the long term effects, if any.

We do know that it can cause heart issues in the younger populations, particularly boys. Yet, the government and big pharma are still pushing to to force jabs clear down to little 2/3 year kids.

They have lied almost from the get go about many things Covid - excuse me if I have no trust in them, Period.

The risk of getting myocarditis is 4x higher from covid than the vaccine. The Oxford study showed the vaccine was 10 or less per million while post covid infection the risk was 40 per million.

(03-04-2022 08:16 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:39 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 07:48 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 06:58 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  You a fake doctor like Tom? Or did his shift end and yours is just beginning?

Just being entertained by the fact that someone could actually believe the shot changes their DNA.

Here’s the thing U, nobody knows the long term effects, if any.

We do know that it can cause heart issues in the younger populations, particularly boys. Yet, the government and big pharma are still pushing to to force jabs clear down to little 2/3 year kids.

They have lied almost from the get go about many things Covid - excuse me if I have no trust in them, Period.

The risk of getting myocarditis is 4x higher from covid than the vaccine. The Oxford study showed the vaccine was 10 or less per million while post covid infection the risk was 40 per million.

Sure Jan

(03-04-2022 07:21 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 04:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 04:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's boil it down since none of you can. It's a shot. Like the flu shot it reduces the chance you get seriously ill. It is not a vaccine like smallpox, measles, and whatever else I took as a baby. If the medical community would have just started with that narrative, you wouldn't have all this bull****.

Yes and no. The Johnson & Johnson gives you a small dose of COVID, just like the flu shot.

Moderna and Pfizer change your MRNA and DNA.

. That's not supported by ANY facts.

Kind of like the fact that we only need one dose?
Kind of like the fact that if we got the vaccine we wouldnt get covid anymore?
Kind of like the fact that if we got the vaccine we wouldnt need to wear a mask anymore?
Kind of like the fact that the vaccines dont kill people?

(03-04-2022 08:51 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(03-04-2022 07:21 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 04:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 04:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's boil it down since none of you can. It's a shot. Like the flu shot it reduces the chance you get seriously ill. It is not a vaccine like smallpox, measles, and whatever else I took as a baby. If the medical community would have just started with that narrative, you wouldn't have all this bull****.

Yes and no. The Johnson & Johnson gives you a small dose of COVID, just like the flu shot.

Moderna and Pfizer change your MRNA and DNA.

. That's not supported by ANY facts.

Kind of like the fact that we only need one dose?
Kind of like the fact that if we got the vaccine we wouldnt get covid anymore?
Kind of like the fact that if we got the vaccine we wouldnt need to wear a mask anymore?
Kind of like the fact that the vaccines dont kill people?

let's also not forget "two weeks to flatten the curve"...

(03-04-2022 09:00 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-04-2022 08:51 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(03-04-2022 07:21 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 04:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 04:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's boil it down since none of you can. It's a shot. Like the flu shot it reduces the chance you get seriously ill. It is not a vaccine like smallpox, measles, and whatever else I took as a baby. If the medical community would have just started with that narrative, you wouldn't have all this bull****.

Yes and no. The Johnson & Johnson gives you a small dose of COVID, just like the flu shot.

Moderna and Pfizer change your MRNA and DNA.

. That's not supported by ANY facts.

Kind of like the fact that we only need one dose?
Kind of like the fact that if we got the vaccine we wouldnt get covid anymore?
Kind of like the fact that if we got the vaccine we wouldnt need to wear a mask anymore?
Kind of like the fact that the vaccines dont kill people?

let's also not forget "two weeks to flatten the curve"...

(03-04-2022 08:51 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(03-04-2022 07:21 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 04:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 04:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's boil it down since none of you can. It's a shot. Like the flu shot it reduces the chance you get seriously ill. It is not a vaccine like smallpox, measles, and whatever else I took as a baby. If the medical community would have just started with that narrative, you wouldn't have all this bull****.

Yes and no. The Johnson & Johnson gives you a small dose of COVID, just like the flu shot.

Moderna and Pfizer change your MRNA and DNA.

. That's not supported by ANY facts.

Kind of like the fact that we only need one dose?
Kind of like the fact that if we got the vaccine we wouldnt get covid anymore?
Kind of like the fact that if we got the vaccine we wouldnt need to wear a mask anymore?
Kind of like the fact that the vaccines dont kill people?

- I don't recall anyone ever saying you'd only need one dose...especially makers and researchers who were more than aware that variants almost always arise to viruses.
- NO ONE ever said any Covid vaccine (or really any vaccine ever) was 100% effective, including their manufacturers.
- I don't think there's a vaccine in history that hasn't caused a death in one of its recipients, and there's been to date NO data shown that any Covid vaccine is killing people at a rate more than any other vaccine. Maybe because we don't really have that data yet, so it could be more deadly...but then again...so is Covid. Either way, don't recall anyone every saying a Covid vaccine would guarantee no one would ever die from it.

But I notice you didn't provide any proof that any Covid mRNA vaccine alters your DNA.....

(03-03-2022 06:58 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  You a fake doctor like Tom? Or did his shift end and yours is just beginning?

I think you meant shaft.