(01-29-2022 10:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 09:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I don't know about North Alabama, but I do know that CUSA reached out to a LOT of FCS schools to gauge interest in potentially joining (like, over a dozen), and a lot of them, including North Dakota State, declined to get involved in that process, or, like Missouri State, withdrew very quickly.

The folks I've been talking to over the last few months believe that EKU would take an CUSA invite right now if offered, and that they are one of the handful of FCS programs that very much wants to go FBS as soon as possible. I don't know enough about the specifics of conversations those parties had in 2021 to say concretely who declined who....but I wouldn't shocked if by say, December of 2022, EKU was preparing to join Conference USA.

UCA, Lamar, SFAU, Tarleton State, McNeese State and NC A&T wants FBS. North Dakota State said they would accept an FBS invite if offered. Chattanooga and Missouri State said in the future they would go.

I think C-USA needs to be stable first before more FCS schools join FBS.

According to David, NDSU said they would accept a FBS invite if offered. Matt said, they declined to be in CUSA process. Hmmmm. Who to believe?!?

(01-29-2022 10:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 09:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I don't know about North Alabama, but I do know that CUSA reached out to a LOT of FCS schools to gauge interest in potentially joining (like, over a dozen), and a lot of them, including North Dakota State, declined to get involved in that process, or, like Missouri State, withdrew very quickly...

UCA, Lamar, SFAU, Tarleton State, McNeese State and NC A&T wants FBS. North Dakota State said they would accept an FBS invite if offered. Chattanooga and Missouri State said in the future they would go.

I think C-USA needs to be stable first before more FCS schools join FBS.

David, DID YOU NOT READ WHAT MATT SAID ABOUT NORTH DAKOTA STATE?! You still however, mentioned that NDSU said they would accept an invite if offered! What is wrong?!

(01-29-2022 09:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I don't know about North Alabama, but I do know that CUSA reached out to a LOT of FCS schools to gauge interest in potentially joining (like, over a dozen), and a lot of them, including North Dakota State, declined to get involved in that process, or, like Missouri State, withdrew very quickly.

The folks I've been talking to over the last few months believe that EKU would take an CUSA invite right now if offered, and that they are one of the handful of FCS programs that very much wants to go FBS as soon as possible. I don't know enough about the specifics of conversations those parties had in 2021 to say concretely who declined who....but I wouldn't shocked if by say, December of 2022, EKU was preparing to join Conference USA.

Conference USA had conversations with about 30 schools, but I think people need to understand that the league office did not reach out to these schools unless that school reached out to the CUSA office first. With business there is still a proper order of doing things.

(01-29-2022 11:33 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 10:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 09:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I don't know about North Alabama, but I do know that CUSA reached out to a LOT of FCS schools to gauge interest in potentially joining (like, over a dozen), and a lot of them, including North Dakota State, declined to get involved in that process, or, like Missouri State, withdrew very quickly...

UCA, Lamar, SFAU, Tarleton State, McNeese State and NC A&T wants FBS. North Dakota State said they would accept an FBS invite if offered. Chattanooga and Missouri State said in the future they would go.

I think C-USA needs to be stable first before more FCS schools join FBS.

David, DID YOU NOT READ WHAT MATT SAID ABOUT NORTH DAKOTA STATE?! You still however, mentioned that NDSU said they would accept an invite if offered! What is wrong?!

Because it was the direct quote from the AD of NDSU that said that in December, I posted the direct quot in a thread last month.

(01-29-2022 09:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I don't know about North Alabama, but I do know that CUSA reached out to a LOT of FCS schools to gauge interest in potentially joining (like, over a dozen), and a lot of them, including North Dakota State, declined to get involved in that process, or, like Missouri State, withdrew very quickly.

The folks I've been talking to over the last few months believe that EKU would take an CUSA invite right now if offered, and that they are one of the handful of FCS programs that very much wants to go FBS as soon as possible. I don't know enough about the specifics of conversations those parties had in 2021 to say concretely who declined who....but I wouldn't shocked if by say, December of 2022, EKU was preparing to join Conference USA.

Just going off of message board rumors but a lot of people seem to think EKU would be blocked by WKU. Do you think WKU would be receptive to EKU joining?

I’ve heard that for years on message boards that wku doesn’t want EKU to move up especially not in their conference.

(01-29-2022 09:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  The folks I've been talking to over the last few months believe that EKU would take an CUSA invite right now if offered, and that they are one of the handful of FCS programs that very much wants to go FBS as soon as possible

Just seems like a path to success in I-A football and mid-majorish (as opposed to low major) basketball is incredibly narrow (impossible?) for EKU.

Talking about an FB program that hasn't made the I-AA playoffs since 2014 and hasn't won a playoff game since 1994; BKB has been mediocre with 3 NCAA trips since 1980 and even an increasingly watered-down OVC hasn't been much help.

Richmond is like an exurb of Lexington - that Big Blue shadow will always be there. Pre-Covid, EKU's football attendance was about 8k and hoops about 2500.

KY is an average at best state for high school basketball talent and less than that for football.

Far from an ideal foundation for growing a program or winning consistently

Guess it's better to be a doormat in FBS then a middle of the road program in FCS — at least until the (inevitable?) breakaway of D-1's top tier.

(01-29-2022 09:02 PM)jmu18 Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 08:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 07:07 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Did the Sun Belt "quietly" seek James Madison a few years ago and JMU politely said "no thanks"? If so (and I could easily be wrong), that would be a highly unusual example of an FCS program looking to move up yet nixing an opportunity with an FBS league.

I recall the course of events. I’m not sure any of the parties were openly discussing it in the media but to all of us, it was obvious that they were approached and balked.

This is true. We had an informal invite from the Sun Belt around 2013-2014. At the time we said no for a few reasons:

- We would’ve been a geographic outlier by a long shot
- NMSU/Idaho were still in. Coastal was not there yet.
- The quality of teams was not what it was now

Another thing to note is that we most likely wouldn’t have accepted a Sun Belt invite this year if Marshall and/or ODU weren’t coming along. JMU’s goal has been a nice geographic conference which is what the Sun Belt east now has.

What's funny about that whole situation was Coastal Carolina getting the spot that was originally intended for JMU. Years later, having Coastal in the conference was a selling point to JMU when it came to conference geography. Coastal stuck its nose out when JMU didn't want to.

JMU stayed in FCS while Coastal was ranked in the AP Top 10 going into their 2020 bowl game. It's impossible to know if JMU could've had the same rise over the same time period, but I'm sure Coastal is thrilled JMU passed on the SBC back then.

(01-29-2022 09:02 PM)jmu18 Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 08:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 07:07 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Did the Sun Belt "quietly" seek James Madison a few years ago and JMU politely said "no thanks"? If so (and I could easily be wrong), that would be a highly unusual example of an FCS program looking to move up yet nixing an opportunity with an FBS league.

I recall the course of events. I’m not sure any of the parties were openly discussing it in the media but to all of us, it was obvious that they were approached and balked.

This is true. We had an informal invite from the Sun Belt around 2013-2014. At the time we said no for a few reasons:

- We would’ve been a geographic outlier by a long shot
- NMSU/Idaho were still in. Coastal was not there yet.
- The quality of teams was not what it was now

Another thing to note is that we most likely wouldn’t have accepted a Sun Belt invite this year if Marshall and/or ODU weren’t coming along. JMU’s goal has been a nice geographic conference which is what the Sun Belt east now has.

JMU's patience has paid off. The school will be a member of an FBS league that "makes sense" for JMU on various levels. Congrats.

(01-30-2022 09:35 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 09:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  The folks I've been talking to over the last few months believe that EKU would take an CUSA invite right now if offered, and that they are one of the handful of FCS programs that very much wants to go FBS as soon as possible

Just seems like a path to success in I-A football and mid-majorish (as opposed to low major) basketball is incredibly narrow (impossible?) for EKU.

Talking about an FB program that hasn't made the I-AA playoffs since 2014 and hasn't won a playoff game since 1994; BKB has been mediocre with 3 NCAA trips since 1980 and even an increasingly watered-down OVC hasn't been much help.

Richmond is like an exurb of Lexington - that Big Blue shadow will always be there. Pre-Covid, EKU's football attendance was about 8k and hoops about 2500.

KY is an average at best state for high school basketball talent and less than that for football.

Far from an ideal foundation for growing a program or winning consistently

Guess it's better to be a doormat in FBS then a middle of the road program in FCS — at least until the (inevitable?) breakaway of D-1's top tier.

Just from seeing people at various colleges, I would guess Kentucky is very good for high school basketball players, but I don't have specific numbers. Its a basketball fanatic state. It may not have many one and dones like NYC or Chicago, but it seems to have a lot of really good players. For years UK thrived on Kentucky talent, but Calipari has switched to the one and dones. WKU, Murray and Louisville have done well with Kentucky HS basketball players. It definitely was a hot spot for basketball talent in the 70s and 80s.

EKU has never been very good in basketball, but it focused more on football and WKU and Murray got the good Kentucky players that an EKU might have pursued.

(01-30-2022 10:50 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 09:02 PM)jmu18 Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 08:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 07:07 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Did the Sun Belt "quietly" seek James Madison a few years ago and JMU politely said "no thanks"? If so (and I could easily be wrong), that would be a highly unusual example of an FCS program looking to move up yet nixing an opportunity with an FBS league.

I recall the course of events. I’m not sure any of the parties were openly discussing it in the media but to all of us, it was obvious that they were approached and balked.

This is true. We had an informal invite from the Sun Belt around 2013-2014. At the time we said no for a few reasons:

- We would’ve been a geographic outlier by a long shot
- NMSU/Idaho were still in. Coastal was not there yet.
- The quality of teams was not what it was now

Another thing to note is that we most likely wouldn’t have accepted a Sun Belt invite this year if Marshall and/or ODU weren’t coming along. JMU’s goal has been a nice geographic conference which is what the Sun Belt east now has.

What's funny about that whole situation was Coastal Carolina getting the spot that was originally intended for JMU. Years later, having Coastal in the conference was a selling point to JMU when it came to conference geography. Coastal stuck its nose out when JMU didn't want to.

JMU stayed in FCS while Coastal was ranked in the AP Top 10 going into their 2020 bowl game. It's impossible to know if JMU could've had the same rise over the same time period, but I'm sure Coastal is thrilled JMU passed on the SBC back then.

Yeah we’ll never know how we would’ve done if we joined earlier… although we have had some great times from 2015-2021 at JMU. 2 college gamedays, softball WCWS run, WLAX Natty, FCS Natty, a very impressive overall athletic department winning percentage, new basketball arena.

Everyone at JMU expects to reach the success that App, Coastal, and Louisiana have had football wise. We’re excited for the future with like minded schools, and we believe we raise the Sun Belt’s profile even further

(01-30-2022 12:33 AM)All4One Wrote:  Conference USA had conversations with about 30 schools, but I think people need to understand that the league office did not reach out to these schools unless that school reached out to the CUSA office first. With business there is still a proper order of doing things.

Eh, sometimes. I've published FOIAs of league offices reaching out to schools, but usually, they work with third parties (consulting companies or other vendors) or with specific ADs or presidents.

Nobody leads these conversations with formal invites, or regardless of who specifically reached out to who, I believe it is accurate to say that bodies representing CUSA interests reached out to numerous FCS teams and were told "no thank you.'

Like I've said several times, some of those 'no thank yous' could change over the course of this year, depending on what the new D-I Constitution looks like. What happens with the Transformation Committee's work will change CUSA's lineup and short-term trajectory more than any other single variable.

(01-30-2022 08:20 AM)theultimateaggie Wrote:  Just going off of message board rumors but a lot of people seem to think EKU would be blocked by WKU. Do you think WKU would be receptive to EKU joining?

You know what? I don't know for certain. Sometimes, these sorts of Message Board Conventional Wisdom tropes turn out not to be true at all. For example, when I talked to a few vendors and ADs close to the America East and CAA, everybody told me that Hofstra was NOT blocking Stony Brook, and in fact, really supported them. It's possible WKU/EKU is that kind of relationship, it's possible it isn't. I also don't know for certain if any one team, in *this current CUSA configuration*, can actually block an expansion candidate, especially since WKU has made it pretty clear they can't be trusted to be a CUSA team forever.

My hunch is no, since I know EKU is still interested and at least some CUSA entities are interested in them. But I can't say for sure yet.

(01-30-2022 01:10 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 12:33 AM)All4One Wrote:  Conference USA had conversations with about 30 schools, but I think people need to understand that the league office did not reach out to these schools unless that school reached out to the CUSA office first. With business there is still a proper order of doing things.

Eh, sometimes. I've published FOIAs of league offices reaching out to schools, but usually, they work with third parties (consulting companies or other vendors) or with specific ADs or presidents.

Nobody leads these conversations with formal invites, or regardless of who specifically reached out to who, I believe it is accurate to say that bodies representing CUSA interests reached out to numerous FCS teams and were told "no thank you.'

Like I've said several times, some of those 'no thank yous' could change over the course of this year, depending on what the new D-I Constitution looks like. What happens with the Transformation Committee's work will change CUSA's lineup and short-term trajectory more than any other single variable.

(01-30-2022 08:20 AM)theultimateaggie Wrote:  Just going off of message board rumors but a lot of people seem to think EKU would be blocked by WKU. Do you think WKU would be receptive to EKU joining?

You know what? I don't know for certain. Sometimes, these sorts of Message Board Conventional Wisdom tropes turn out not to be true at all. For example, when I talked to a few vendors and ADs close to the America East, everybody told me that Hofstra was NOT blocking Stony Brook, and in fact, really supported them. It's possible WKU/EKU is that kind of relationship, it's possible it isn't. I also don't know for certain if any one team, in *this current CUSA configuration*, can actually block an expansion candidate, especially since WKU has made it pretty clear they can't be trusted to be a CUSA team forever.

My hunch is no, since I know EKU is still interested and at least some CUSA entities are interested in them. But I can't say for sure yet.

In regards to Hofstra, they had a new President since last expansion go round

There were emails W&M bloggers uncovered via FIOA where it was quite obvious Hofstra was against Stony Brook back when Elon and Charleston joined

(01-30-2022 07:29 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 11:33 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 10:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 09:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I don't know about North Alabama, but I do know that CUSA reached out to a LOT of FCS schools to gauge interest in potentially joining (like, over a dozen), and a lot of them, including North Dakota State, declined to get involved in that process, or, like Missouri State, withdrew very quickly...

UCA, Lamar, SFAU, Tarleton State, McNeese State and NC A&T wants FBS. North Dakota State said they would accept an FBS invite if offered. Chattanooga and Missouri State said in the future they would go.

I think C-USA needs to be stable first before more FCS schools join FBS.

David, DID YOU NOT READ WHAT MATT SAID ABOUT NORTH DAKOTA STATE?! You still however, mentioned that NDSU said they would accept an invite if offered! What is wrong?!

Because it was the direct quote from the AD of NDSU that said that in December, I posted the direct quot in a thread last month.

I thought they are looking more toward the MWC.

Pretty sure Liberty also turned down the SBC when they were fcs.

(01-30-2022 01:55 PM)EKUSteve Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 07:29 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 11:33 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 10:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 09:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I don't know about North Alabama, but I do know that CUSA reached out to a LOT of FCS schools to gauge interest in potentially joining (like, over a dozen), and a lot of them, including North Dakota State, declined to get involved in that process, or, like Missouri State, withdrew very quickly...

UCA, Lamar, SFAU, Tarleton State, McNeese State and NC A&T wants FBS. North Dakota State said they would accept an FBS invite if offered. Chattanooga and Missouri State said in the future they would go.

I think C-USA needs to be stable first before more FCS schools join FBS.

David, DID YOU NOT READ WHAT MATT SAID ABOUT NORTH DAKOTA STATE?! You still however, mentioned that NDSU said they would accept an invite if offered! What is wrong?!

Because it was the direct quote from the AD of NDSU that said that in December, I posted the direct quot in a thread last month.

I thought they are looking more toward the MWC.

Just more than MWC. It was a hint towards all G5 conferences. They would go to CUSA as a football affiliate until they get an all sports invite to either MWC or MAC.

(01-30-2022 02:31 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  Pretty sure Liberty also turned down the SBC when they were fcs.

Yeah, that's not true. The opposite actually happened, where Liberty offered the SBC (and C-USA) a ton of money in order to become a member. They tried to bribe their way in. No conference wanted them.

A private school won't be admitted to the SBC.

(01-30-2022 02:47 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 02:31 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  Pretty sure Liberty also turned down the SBC when they were fcs.

Yeah, that's not true. The opposite actually happened, where Liberty offered the SBC (and C-USA) a ton of money in order to become a member. They tried to bribe their way in. No conference wanted them.

A private school won't be admitted to the SBC.

Yep. That’s right

(01-30-2022 01:10 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 12:33 AM)All4One Wrote:  Conference USA had conversations with about 30 schools, but I think people need to understand that the league office did not reach out to these schools unless that school reached out to the CUSA office first. With business there is still a proper order of doing things.

Eh, sometimes. I've published FOIAs of league offices reaching out to schools, but usually, they work with third parties (consulting companies or other vendors) or with specific ADs or presidents.

Nobody leads these conversations with formal invites, or regardless of who specifically reached out to who, I believe it is accurate to say that bodies representing CUSA interests reached out to numerous FCS teams and were told "no thank you.'

Like I've said several times, some of those 'no thank yous' could change over the course of this year, depending on what the new D-I Constitution looks like. What happens with the Transformation Committee's work will change CUSA's lineup and short-term trajectory more than any other single variable.

(01-30-2022 08:20 AM)theultimateaggie Wrote:  Just going off of message board rumors but a lot of people seem to think EKU would be blocked by WKU. Do you think WKU would be receptive to EKU joining?

You know what? I don't know for certain. Sometimes, these sorts of Message Board Conventional Wisdom tropes turn out not to be true at all. For example, when I talked to a few vendors and ADs close to the America East and CAA, everybody told me that Hofstra was NOT blocking Stony Brook, and in fact, really supported them. It's possible WKU/EKU is that kind of relationship, it's possible it isn't. I also don't know for certain if any one team, in *this current CUSA configuration*, can actually block an expansion candidate, especially since WKU has made it pretty clear they can't be trusted to be a CUSA team forever.

My hunch is no, since I know EKU is still interested and at least some CUSA entities are interested in them. But I can't say for sure yet.

Exactly. C-USA reached out to UConn. Not the other way around.

(01-30-2022 03:17 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 01:10 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 12:33 AM)All4One Wrote:  Conference USA had conversations with about 30 schools, but I think people need to understand that the league office did not reach out to these schools unless that school reached out to the CUSA office first. With business there is still a proper order of doing things.

Eh, sometimes. I've published FOIAs of league offices reaching out to schools, but usually, they work with third parties (consulting companies or other vendors) or with specific ADs or presidents.

Nobody leads these conversations with formal invites, or regardless of who specifically reached out to who, I believe it is accurate to say that bodies representing CUSA interests reached out to numerous FCS teams and were told "no thank you.'

Like I've said several times, some of those 'no thank yous' could change over the course of this year, depending on what the new D-I Constitution looks like. What happens with the Transformation Committee's work will change CUSA's lineup and short-term trajectory more than any other single variable.

(01-30-2022 08:20 AM)theultimateaggie Wrote:  Just going off of message board rumors but a lot of people seem to think EKU would be blocked by WKU. Do you think WKU would be receptive to EKU joining?

You know what? I don't know for certain. Sometimes, these sorts of Message Board Conventional Wisdom tropes turn out not to be true at all. For example, when I talked to a few vendors and ADs close to the America East and CAA, everybody told me that Hofstra was NOT blocking Stony Brook, and in fact, really supported them. It's possible WKU/EKU is that kind of relationship, it's possible it isn't. I also don't know for certain if any one team, in *this current CUSA configuration*, can actually block an expansion candidate, especially since WKU has made it pretty clear they can't be trusted to be a CUSA team forever.

My hunch is no, since I know EKU is still interested and at least some CUSA entities are interested in them. But I can't say for sure yet.

Exactly. C-USA reached out to UConn. Not the other way around.

Link?

Considering CUSA does not allow fb only members, I am highly suspect of this.