Does this help Chicago State at all? Does the Horizon want/need a team in Chicago?

What other midwestern cities have schools (that aren't in the B1G, MAC, Big E, MVC) and might be interested.

They currently have: Pittsburgh, Youngstown, Cleveland, Detroit(2), Fort Wayne, Indianapolis, Dayton, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, and Green Bay.

Maybe Grand Rapids (Grand Valley State), St.Paul (St. Thomas) and ??? Kansas City is getting a bit remote. Toledo, Lansing, Columbus, Madison are already taken.

(02-10-2022 10:30 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 03:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 03:11 PM)stpnum4 Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 03:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 03:05 PM)stpnum4 Wrote:  Is anyone else not bothered by the Horizon League's move to ban UIC? It's literally in the bylaws that UIC agreed to. This is only happening because UIC annouced their intent to leave without the required 12 month notice.

UIC is essentially breaking their contract/agreement with the HL. Am I getting this wrong?

Well yeah, I said the same thing a couple posts up. :)

If the HL bylaws are that you have to give a minimum of 12 months notice, then I agree the HL ban is justified. Basically, UIC is leaving the championships sooner than it was supposed to (it was supposed to be in the HL for one more year) so the league is removing UIC from the championships sooner as well.

Others can call this spiteful if they want, but IMO notice-rules serve a legitimate purpose in that they help a conference solidify itself. And heck, by the standards of other leagues, 12 months is not a lot of notice. Some require 27 months, etc.

That's my understanding of the situation. So unless additional info comes to light, it looks like UIC is at fault. UIC's ineptitute is what's penalizing UIC student athletes.

Yeah, UIC should have announced in April. They were really stupid.

That's just not realistic in conference realignment, though. As I've stated elsewhere, it's like a job opening - when there's a fit, it's in the best interests of both the employer and employee to finalize it ASAP because the passage of time is a major risk for either party to back out. This is the same thing for conferences and schools - timing is a big part of conference realignment in terms of being in the right place at the right time.

As a practical matter, financial penalties are really the proper remedy when there's a school that provides less notice than required to a conference. I believe everyone understands the logic of those types of penalties even if they might be challenged. However, the banning of a school from conference championships (even if a league technically has the right to do so) is a much more spiteful and emotional move. I thought that the Horizon League was looking to keep scheduling UIC in various sports (which is quite beneficial to the Horizon due to UIC's location in Chicago), but they might be burning that bridge pretty badly here.

Believe me - I'm a lawyer, so I provide advice every day on what a party *can* do under a contract. However, I'm also a practical and holistic business person, so I always follow that up with asking whether a party *should* do it in the context of long-term goals. The latter is really much more important.

I appreciate your post Frank. The Butler history with the HL certainly adds context and colors the situation a bit. It wasn't that long ago that the HL was a top 14 league. It's very much so in the bottom third of college basketball in the last few years. Seems like the HL needs new leadership.

(02-10-2022 10:08 AM)Midwestan Wrote:  I wonder how much of a ruckus it would cause if the MVC said, "Hey, UIC...since you're not doing anything on March 3rd, how about coming to Arch Madness and make our conference tournament an 11-team affair!"?

Along similar lines, I wonder if the Ohio Valley Conference would do to Murray State and Belmont what the Horizon League is doing to UIC if both the Racers and Bruins were just middle of the pack or worse teams in the OVC this year. I would almost be willing to bet there are some people at the league offices in Nashville secretly hoping Morehead State wins the automatic bid, so that Belmont and Murray State can have a proper 'send-off'.

Or am I being too cynical?

Probably being too cynical (no offense meant) since the OVC didn't institute post-season bans on EKU or Jax St last year, and also haven't done it with Austin Peay this year and they're very middle of the pack right now.

(02-11-2022 05:08 PM)redmyers Wrote:  

(02-10-2022 10:08 AM)Midwestan Wrote:  I wonder how much of a ruckus it would cause if the MVC said, "Hey, UIC...since you're not doing anything on March 3rd, how about coming to Arch Madness and make our conference tournament an 11-team affair!"?

Along similar lines, I wonder if the Ohio Valley Conference would do to Murray State and Belmont what the Horizon League is doing to UIC if both the Racers and Bruins were just middle of the pack or worse teams in the OVC this year. I would almost be willing to bet there are some people at the league offices in Nashville secretly hoping Morehead State wins the automatic bid, so that Belmont and Murray State can have a proper 'send-off'.

Or am I being too cynical?

Probably being too cynical (no offense meant) since the OVC didn't institute post-season bans on EKU or Jax St last year, and also haven't done it with Austin Peay this year and they're very middle of the pack right now.

Also, outside chance Murray could get an at-large if they don't win the Tournament, which would mean more money for the OVC.

Thought maybe some of you might be interested in this. i talked to a few of the athletes at UIC and SBU, their administrators, and other experts:

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/uic-stony-...eague-ban/

(02-14-2022 08:50 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  Thought maybe some of you might be interested in this. i talked to a few of the athletes at UIC and SBU, their administrators, and other experts:

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/uic-stony-...eague-ban/

Very good article! Spot on about who it really punishes

(02-14-2022 09:31 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 08:50 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  Thought maybe some of you might be interested in this. i talked to a few of the athletes at UIC and SBU, their administrators, and other experts:

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/uic-stony-...eague-ban/

Very good article! Spot on about who it really punishes

Yes - excellent article!

I think that it's a very good point about the perverse incentives that these punitive actions by conferences can create. The irony is that banning departing schools from conference championships doesn't provide an incentive to provide longer notice, but rather creates an incentive for schools to wait even longer until the last possible second (after all of their current seasons are finished) to provide notice, which would damage the conferences that they're departing even further.

(02-14-2022 08:50 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  Thought maybe some of you might be interested in this. i talked to a few of the athletes at UIC and SBU, their administrators, and other experts:

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/uic-stony-...eague-ban/

Great column