An important thing to always remember is to not confuse recent on-the-field success with conference realignment value because it's a not 1:1 relationship.

IMHO, the OP "ACC" lineup (really an expanded version of old Big East football conference) still has multiple schools with high conference realignment value. I don't care how badly Miami might have been playing lately: it's a brand name school with great academics located *directly* in arguably the best football recruiting region in the country.

Let's put it this way: if Miami, Syracuse, Pitt, BC and/or Louisville decided to leave the ACC, then the Big 12 would absolutely 100% want to take ALL of them. Heck, I even think the Big Ten would be highly interested in Miami, Syracuse and BC because they each fill some gaps for that league.

So, if you believe that the current Big 12 is a power conference, then the OP "ACC" league is absolutely a power conference and there's just no way that UConn (or any other FBS school that's not currently in the P5 or ND) would turn them down.

To that point, there's a lot more plausible scenario: what if the Big 12 were to invite UConn? Would UConn take the Big 12's invite? I would say absolutely YES.

(01-26-2022 11:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  To that point, there's a lot more plausible scenario: what if the Big 12 were to invite UConn? Would UConn take the Big 12's invite? I would say absolutely YES.

God, I hope not. No more plains states conferences. I acknowledge it likely comes down to money though.

(01-26-2022 11:08 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 11:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  To that point, there's a lot more plausible scenario: what if the Big 12 were to invite UConn? Would UConn take the Big 12's invite? I would say absolutely YES.

God, I hope not. No more plains states conferences. I acknowledge it likely comes down to money though.

That's what makes it a tougher choice for UConn. In the OP league, it's including schools like Syracuse, BC and Pitt that have all been historical rivals for UConn (plus a brand name anchor with Miami), so that seems to be an easy decision for UConn to join that group. However, that OP league won't ever realistically exist.

The Big 12, OTOH, certainly exists in real life and there's a legitimate chance that they could expand further after UT and OU leave. If the Big 12 continues to secure P5 status going forward (however that's defined), then can anyone that's currently outside of the power group realistically turn that down? Note that the Big 12 is a fantastic basketball league with Kansas being a marquee anchor, so it's also not a competitive downgrade in hoops (and would arguably be a competitive upgrade). Ultimately, I believe if you're going to have a FBS football program, then you have to take any opportunity to be on the right side of the P5/G5 divide if it's ever offered. It's one thing to choose independence over a G5 league, but it's totally different if P5 status is being offered here.

(01-26-2022 11:08 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 11:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  To that point, there's a lot more plausible scenario: what if the Big 12 were to invite UConn? Would UConn take the Big 12's invite? I would say absolutely YES.

God, I hope not. No more plains states conferences. I acknowledge it likely comes down to money though.

A hypothetical move to the future Big 12 would be concerning for men's hoops in that the Huskies would lose some Big East rivals. But the Big 12 has and will add some very strong basketball programs. And your football program needs a home. If the Big 12 gets an auto-bid to the future CFP and invites UConn to join ... you've got to strongly consider at the very least.

Any league that is "comprehensive power" (i.e., it offers football and primarily large public universities with annual athletic budgets of $70M or more) is going to be a better overall fit for UConn than the Big East for the long haul.

(01-26-2022 11:46 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The Big 12, OTOH, certainly exists in real life and there's a legitimate chance that they could expand further after UT and OU leave. If the Big 12 continues to secure P5 status going forward (however that's defined), then can anyone that's currently outside of the power group realistically turn that down? Note that the Big 12 is a fantastic basketball league with Kansas being a marquee anchor, so it's also not a competitive downgrade in hoops (and would arguably be a competitive upgrade). Ultimately, I believe if you're going to have a FBS football program, then you have to take any opportunity to be on the right side of the P5/G5 divide if it's ever offered. It's one thing to choose independence over a G5 league, but it's totally different if P5 status is being offered here.

Football would benefit from the Big 12 association, no argument here, although I don't think they become world-beaters in any scenario, but ultimately I think it would come down to money more than any sort of autonomy status specifically (and yes, the two things are very tightly intertwined despite technically being separate things). Ultimately I think it would be bad for basketball on a couple different levels though, and I l believe (and I'm not sure anyone would really dispute this) that basketball at UConn has a significantly higher ceiling than football does. I'm fine prioritizing basketball and letting football's chips fall where they may (and I like going to the football games!) because that's UConn's best shot at competing on a national scale.

In short, UConn basketball can win the national championship in any given year. UConn football can win the..... Mayonnaise Bowl? There's one I'd prefer to the other. Ultimately I think the Big 12 would still pay enough that UConn would take the offer though, which I would be very unhappy with.

(01-26-2022 12:30 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  A hypothetical move to the future Big 12 would be concerning for men's hoops in that the Huskies would lose some Big East rivals. But the Big 12 has and will add some very strong basketball programs. And your football program needs a home. If the Big 12 gets an auto-bid to the future CFP and invites UConn to join ... you've got to strongly consider at the very least.

It's nothing to do with the Big 12 not being good enough - they're going to be a perfectly fine league that I expect will be tons of fun for the teams joining. The problem I have with the Big 12 is specifically to do with how poor the match is geographically between the league and UConn, and getting away from the 95 corridor recruiting base that's a goldmine in basketball (and that the Big East is uniquely well-positioned to recruit). In the Big 12 UConn would wind up just another one of a half-dozen+ northeastern programs in big money conferences that are centered well away from the northeast. In football that's a good thing, but in basketball I think you give up a very important advantage for much smaller bumps recruiting Florida and Texas.

(01-25-2022 05:14 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 08:04 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  I know it’s hypothetical but I just can’t imagine the ACC with no NC schools.

That’s like the Big East with no Catholic schools, the Big Ten with no midwestern schools, and the Big 12 with no Texas schools.

(01-25-2022 01:42 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  Yep, if the ACC loses its most valued brands, it’s not surviving. UConn is in a tough spot

The ACC is already well below the BIG and SEC. This year is a preview of what life is like without Clemson, FSU, UNC et…ESPN is not paying to keep a conference together that had lower ratings for its conference title game than the American conference.

People with only the fan mindset will struggle with the conference name, but ACC dissolution would occur and most would land in the conference comprised of Big 12 and ACC leftovers.

If you’re BC/Wake/Syracuse/Pitt you’re hoping KU gets a P2 invite soon and/or you’re likely willing to take less in order to reopen the current ACC tv deal to get WVU asap. It won’t save the current ACC, likely just expedites departures, but it gives you a better chance of being in the conference of leftovers.

Can you imagine a Big 12 without Texas and Oklahoma? If I asked you back in 2010, without Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, or Missouri? The 2025 (possibly earlier) Big 12 will literally have half of its original members. If the Big 12 can survive without Texas and Oklahoma, the ACC can survive without the Carolina schools. Or maybe both should change their names? There was a pretty long period when the Big East was without Syracuse and Connecticut (before UConn came back) and half the conference wasn't "East" (now 5/11 of the conference isn't). How about Conference USA? I believe Southern Miss and UAB were the only two original 1995 members and both are leaving. Maybe they should change their name too?

Well, at least the Big 12 keeps four Texas schools. And for the Big East small Catholic schools are still majority.

(01-26-2022 01:51 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Well, at least the Big 12 keeps four Texas schools. And for the Big East small Catholic schools are still majority.

Small schools...
DePaul: 22,437 students
St. John's: 21,087
Georgetown: 19,005

(01-26-2022 01:31 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 11:46 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The Big 12, OTOH, certainly exists in real life and there's a legitimate chance that they could expand further after UT and OU leave. If the Big 12 continues to secure P5 status going forward (however that's defined), then can anyone that's currently outside of the power group realistically turn that down? Note that the Big 12 is a fantastic basketball league with Kansas being a marquee anchor, so it's also not a competitive downgrade in hoops (and would arguably be a competitive upgrade). Ultimately, I believe if you're going to have a FBS football program, then you have to take any opportunity to be on the right side of the P5/G5 divide if it's ever offered. It's one thing to choose independence over a G5 league, but it's totally different if P5 status is being offered here.

Football would benefit from the Big 12 association, no argument here, although I don't think they become world-beaters in any scenario, but ultimately I think it would come down to money more than any sort of autonomy status specifically (and yes, the two things are very tightly intertwined despite technically being separate things). Ultimately I think it would be bad for basketball on a couple different levels though, and I l believe (and I'm not sure anyone would really dispute this) that basketball at UConn has a significantly higher ceiling than football does. I'm fine prioritizing basketball and letting football's chips fall where they may (and I like going to the football games!) because that's UConn's best shot at competing on a national scale.

In short, UConn basketball can win the national championship in any given year. UConn football can win the..... Mayonnaise Bowl? There's one I'd prefer to the other. Ultimately I think the Big 12 would still pay enough that UConn would take the offer though, which I would be very unhappy with.

(01-26-2022 12:30 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  A hypothetical move to the future Big 12 would be concerning for men's hoops in that the Huskies would lose some Big East rivals. But the Big 12 has and will add some very strong basketball programs. And your football program needs a home. If the Big 12 gets an auto-bid to the future CFP and invites UConn to join ... you've got to strongly consider at the very least.

It's nothing to do with the Big 12 not being good enough - they're going to be a perfectly fine league that I expect will be tons of fun for the teams joining. The problem I have with the Big 12 is specifically to do with how poor the match is geographically between the league and UConn, and getting away from the 95 corridor recruiting base that's a goldmine in basketball (and that the Big East is uniquely well-positioned to recruit). In the Big 12 UConn would wind up just another one of a half-dozen+ northeastern programs in big money conferences that are centered well away from the northeast. In football that's a good thing, but in basketball I think you give up a very important advantage for much smaller bumps recruiting Florida and Texas.

You are correct in that UConn as a member of the future Big 12 would not be a good cultural/geographical fit. But neither is West Virginia and that school has made Big 12 membership work well overall.

It would be a tough choice if the Big 12 invite were extended (and I don't foresee it), but my gut tells me UConn would say "yes."

The better scenario is future realignment that yields 10 or more all-sports universities with which UConn has some common ground (particularly historically and geographically) and that has direct access to the future football playoff.

(01-26-2022 02:06 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:51 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Well, at least the Big 12 keeps four Texas schools. And for the Big East small Catholic schools are still majority.

Small schools...
DePaul: 22,437 students
St. John's: 21,087
Georgetown: 19,005

He might mean "small" in comparison to the enrollments of the majority of universities that are members of the P5.

(01-26-2022 02:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 02:06 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:51 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Well, at least the Big 12 keeps four Texas schools. And for the Big East small Catholic schools are still majority.

Small schools...
DePaul: 22,437 students
St. John's: 21,087
Georgetown: 19,005

He might mean "small" in comparison to the enrollments of the majority of universities that are members of the P5.

Exactly.

(01-26-2022 06:58 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 02:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 02:06 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:51 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Well, at least the Big 12 keeps four Texas schools. And for the Big East small Catholic schools are still majority.

Small schools...
DePaul: 22,437 students
St. John's: 21,087
Georgetown: 19,005

He might mean "small" in comparison to the enrollments of the majority of universities that are members of the P5.

Exactly.

(01-22-2022 03:00 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  If your hypothetically reconfigured all-sports league is an autonomous league, UConn would leave the Big East promptly.

We have to remember (and I have posted this many times). UConn joined the current Big East to "get out of" the AAC as much as to "be in" the BE. It would prefer to be a member of a league that 1. plays football and 2. plays baseball at the highest level (Husky baseball is extremely strong). The conference you outline would afford that opportunity.

On this theme, had the Big 12 invited UConn instead of UCF, I feel UConn likely would have accepted.

I continue to feel there could be some future realignment that will create opportunity for UConn to be a member of a conference that sponsors football and is comprised primarily of large public universities. Though the Big East is a strong fit for UConn in some respects, it is also a very awkward fit in other ways.

That's certainly possible, and the conference could be the ACC, if the ACC decides to expand from ACC-14(+ND) to an ACC-15(+ND) or ACC-16(+ND).

The Big 12 commissioner has predicted that all the P5 conferences will have 16 teams in the not-too-distant future.

The Big Ten may expand to 16 when their next broadcasting agreement kicks in (2024 or 2025). If they do, the ACC might do the same soon afterwards.

If the ACC expands, which two schools would they be most inclined to add?

The ACC might consider adding Cincy, UCF, and/or WVU, if they could persuade them to leave the Big 12. Other regional candidates could include UConn, Memphis, USF, Temple, and AAU schools, such as Tulane and SUNY-Buffalo.

The ACC would be in greatest need of schools with strong football programs. If they are inclined to expand, their best bets would probably be to add Cincinnati and UCF before they play a Big 12 game, when they would have to pay prohibitive exit fees, or Memphis.

.

If UConn doesn't receive an invitation to join the ACC, the most likely other options would be the Big 12 (which hasn't shown any interest in UConn) or the Big Ten (though they would, first, have to become an AAU member).

Otherwise, UConn may have to wait until the another power conference comes into existence, in which case, they could be waiting for a long time.

.

(01-22-2022 03:00 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  If your hypothetically reconfigured all-sports league is an autonomous league, UConn would leave the Big East promptly.

We have to remember (and I have posted this many times). UConn joined the current Big East to "get out of" the AAC as much as to "be in" the BE. It would prefer to be a member of a league that 1. plays football and 2. plays baseball at the highest level (Husky baseball is extremely strong). The conference you outline would afford that opportunity.

On this theme, had the Big 12 invited UConn instead of UCF, I feel UConn likely would have accepted.

I continue to feel there could be some future realignment that will create opportunity for UConn to be a member of a conference that sponsors football and is comprised primarily of large public universities. Though the Big East is a strong fit for UConn in some respects, it is also a very awkward fit in other ways.

"Husky baseball is extremely strong"??? You're kidding, right? How many national championships or runner ups have they won? Little news flash: No Power conference or even a G5 is going to invite them. Financially the school is a basket case as is the State of Connecticut. People are leaving CT, not moving there. Fortune 500 are leaving and continue to leave.

Nobody gets invited to a P5 because of their baseball program. Schools have been invited to P5 that have a good baseball program, but the reason they were added was because of football and/or media market.

(01-27-2022 04:02 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Nobody gets invited to a P5 because of their baseball program. Schools have been invited to P5 that have a good baseball program, but the reason they were added was because of football and/or media market.

Exactly!!!! The Power 5 schools today are the same as 50 years ago: major universities that have huge endowments and stadiums and in major football conferences. Some AAU, some not; but that's a side issue. Some flagship universities, some not; but the football budgets must be absolutely top shelf. Basketball really has nothing to do with the definition of P5, just look at the Big East today: many of those schools have won NCAA basketball national championships but since no football, no P5.

Everyone's unhappy with UConn's situation except UConn fans....

UConn had big dreams for a little state and to be honest, it did them in. They razed their little on-campus stadium and leased one 25 miles away. Don't know about you, but kids like to walk from their dorms to the football stadium. UConn paid Randy Edsall a ridiculous amount of money and they wound up dropping sports.

(01-27-2022 04:16 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Everyone's unhappy with UConn's situation except UConn fans....

we're just trying to enlighten you guys.............

(01-27-2022 04:16 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Everyone's unhappy with UConn's situation except UConn fans....

100% this.

(01-27-2022 04:16 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Everyone's unhappy with UConn's situation except UConn fans....

Y'all go on and do your thing.

It's fun to play NCAA King and shuffle teams around (I enjoy it sometimes).

But the heart wants what the heart wants. If UConn fans and UConn administration are cool with where they are - enjoy that.