(11-16-2021 07:45 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 07:39 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 07:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Wait a couple years and then add Murray St and Bellarmine. Then you’re public/football vs private/non-football balance stays in place.

I get it in a vacuum, but as I’ve noted in other discussions over the past few months, that’s simply not how conferences are approaching this round of realignment. There are a lot more aggressive “do it now” moves and leagues are being much more about long-term strategy as opposed to maximizing short-term dollars. Even totally content leagues like the MAC took a swing at adding schools.

It wouldn’t shock me if the MVC jumped up to 14 schools.

Going past 10 or 12 is a poor decision for 1 bid leagues. I think Murray St helps them stay an occasional 2 bid league. Bellarmine intrigues me because they are a football first (and only school) and I think their profile is in line with the likes of Drake, Valpo, Belmont, Bradley, and Evansville.

Bellarmine doesn't have football. They were a D-II bball power. I thought they'd get the nod to the HL if the HL loses someone to the MVC especially if it was NKU

Just make sure Belmont still comes on board. Screw the public private stuff go get Murray and UIC keep the Chicago presence and get a good basketball brand. Also before UTA and esp UMKC id prefer NKU or UWM. Why are we even talking about UMKC?

Belmont replaces Loyola in the Public-Private balance
UIC to replace Loyola in Chicago
Bellarmine to reestablish the 6-6 public private balance

This is why I love the A-10.

With Loyola, we now have 11 private and 4 public schools. Three private schools have left, seven public schools have left.

At no point did the A-10 ever have a balance of 50/50 public and private.

The only question we have is "How's the basketball and the media market?"

(11-16-2021 09:06 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  This is why I love the A-10.

With Loyola, we now have 11 private and 4 public schools. Three private schools have left, seven public schools have left.

At no point did the A-10 ever have a balance of 50/50 public and private.

The only question we have is "How's the basketball and the media market?"

Do you think the BE is going to take St.Louis and they were going to need to do this anyway? Or UMass to the MAC for all sports(less likely)

(11-16-2021 05:16 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Add zero, one, two, or three?




This map doesn't include Belmont.

MVC will be at 10 with changes currently announced

Is this move sorta out of left field?

(11-16-2021 09:32 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 05:16 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Add zero, one, two, or three?




This map doesn't include Belmont.

MVC will be at 10 with changes currently announced

Is this move sorta out of left field?

Yes. There was no one - reporter, message board, or twitter - who had an inkling of this until it broke. This is probably the best-kept realignment secret I can recall.

Taking Bellarmine would be expanding to expand. It's a small, transitioning school with a small endowment in a small-to-mid sized metro area that would already partially be covered by adding Murray State.

St. Thomas is a strictly superior option to Bellarmine. Possibly Denver too, but their sports don't fit well with the MVC (not that they fit well anywhere).

A few thoughts....

1) I had absolutely no idea this was coming, and neither did anybody else I know outside of the folks at CBS. I had heard a little bit of rumbling that Loyola was looking at other options prior to COVID, but it was the AAC, not the A-10, that came up, and I honestly didn't think much of it at the time. Well done by the A-10 to keep this under wraps.

2) I had reported a week or so earlier that the three schools on the MVC radar were UT-A, UMKC, and Murray...and honestly, in that order. The desire to move into more urban markets is a major priority among private school leadership in the MVC. In fact, I think UT-A was *really* close to a done deal before the commissioner changeover, which put things on hold. Are those the three schools I would have picked? No. But those were the three on the hotboard.

3) I also agree that calling UIC would be a smart move (and who I would personally pick over UMKC), and that to the best of my knowledge, the previous conversations about the other three MVC schools over the last two weeks were under the assumption that Loyola was sticking around. Perhaps having a hole in the Chicago market changes things now. Perhaps not....a lot of this stuff is still relationship driven.

4) As of right this second, I'm also told that A-10 leaders are optimistic that they'll be able to hang on to everybody, and that they don't THINK the Big East is going to try and grab Dayton, VCU or St.Louis. I don't have any *hard* intel to suggest that Temple is actually seriously considering this, although I know their basketball staff wouldn't mind that move. Of course, it isn't up to them.

5) If the Horizon loses a team, I think they'll be able to fill that opening pretty quickly. They've been prepared to lose a team for the last year, and have a list of backups.

This is a gamble for Loyola because of the higher level of competition they will be playing in the A10.

Its not like they were exhibiting the strength of Butler for 20 years prior to the A10 bid.

(11-16-2021 10:07 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  A few thoughts....

1) I had absolutely no idea this was coming, and neither did anybody else I know outside of the folks at CBS. I had heard a little bit of rumbling that Loyola was looking at other options prior to COVID, but it was the AAC, not the A-10, that came up, and I honestly didn't think much of it at the time. Well done by the A-10 to keep this under wraps.

2) I had reported a week or so earlier that the three schools on the MVC radar were UT-A, UMKC, and Murray...and honestly, in that order. The desire to move into more urban markets is a major priority among private school leadership in the MVC. In fact, I think UT-A was *really* close to a done deal before the commissioner changeover, which put things on hold. Are those the three schools I would have picked? No. But those were the three on the hotboard.

3) I also agree that calling UIC would be a smart move (and who I would personally pick over UMKC), and that to the best of my knowledge, the previous conversations about the other three MVC schools over the last two weeks were under the assumption that Loyola was sticking around. Perhaps having a hole in the Chicago market changes things now. Perhaps not....a lot of this stuff is still relationship driven.

4) As of right this second, I'm also told that A-10 leaders are optimistic that they'll be able to hang on to everybody, and that they don't THINK the Big East is going to try and grab Dayton, VCU or St.Louis. I don't have any *hard* intel to suggest that Temple is actually seriously considering this, although I know their basketball staff wouldn't mind that move. Of course, it isn't up to them.

5) If the Horizon loses a team, I think they'll be able to fill that opening pretty quickly. They've been prepared to lose a team for the last year, and have a list of backups.

Great stuff here.

Really interesting that the private schools in the MVC are focused on large market schools. I’m not surprised: that was always my feeling coming out of that league, which is why Murray State continuously seems to be the proverbial bridesmaid in MVC expansion despite having a better on-the-court program. Getting into Texas seems to be a goal of every conference these days, so I see the UT-A attraction in a vacuum (although I question the cultural and institutional fit). The UMKC focus as opposed to looking several other Horizon League schools that would also bring in large markets beyond UIC (such as UWM and NKU) is a little more puzzling. I guess schools like Missouri State, UNI and Drake are going to have more alums in KC area, so maybe there’s some allure there.

I have long been bullish on UIC - fastest-growing institution in the State of Illinois for several years in an environment where most other non-flagship Midwestern schools are having enrollment challenges, climbing up the academic rankings, location right next to downtown Chicago, etc. They’re pretty much everything that you’d want from an expansion target off-the-court. Of course, it’s the on-the-court performance that has been lacking. That being said, if the MVC is looking purely for large market locations, then UIC makes total sense.

(11-16-2021 09:14 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Do you think the BE is going to take St.Louis and they were going to need to do this anyway? Or UMass to the MAC for all sports(less likely)

Obviously, I think the TV execs will decide that. But the Big East is not gung-ho on expansion.

For one, they just added UConn; they LIKE the double-round-robin and their western teams are guaranteed six games in major east coast markets every year.

So why not go for a raise based on UConn as the expansion you made, and the success they've had as a league with 2 meetings with everyone every season? If you need to expand to bring in more dollars, do it in the next cycle.


But then again, I've been saying the Big East has been making poor decisions with it's configuration based on conventional wisdom that just isn't true; so they probably will not do what I think is logical. (They would have been better off taking Duquesne and Bonaventure at the start with 12, then adding Dayton and SLU later for TV markets!).

probably the wrong spot for this.

(11-16-2021 10:42 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  This is a gamble for Loyola because of the higher level of competition they will be playing in the A10.

Its not like they were exhibiting the strength of Butler for 20 years prior to the A10 bid.

Loyola has had 2 good teams in 35 years and goes vast stretches without fielding quality teams. It's a gamble by the A-10, they could wind up with another doormat like Duquesne or Fordham.

(11-17-2021 12:28 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 10:42 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  This is a gamble for Loyola because of the higher level of competition they will be playing in the A10.

Its not like they were exhibiting the strength of Butler for 20 years prior to the A10 bid.

Loyola has had 2 good teams in 35 years and goes vast stretches without fielding quality teams. It's a gamble by the A-10, they could wind up with another doormat like Duquesne or Fordham.

True that it’s a risk, but we all should have learned by now of the power of location in conference realignment.

Even if Loyola loses every conference game going forward, it’s still a trip to the key recruiting market of Chicago for every member school. Chicago is to basketball recruiting as Texas is to football recruiting.

On a side note, isn't funny how LUC went from sub-Valley to passing it by in such a short time?

(11-17-2021 12:34 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  On a side note, isn't funny how LUC went from sub-Valley to passing it by in such a short time?

Low end of the *Horizon League* to passing the Valley by! Absolutely nuts

(11-16-2021 07:45 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 07:39 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 07:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Wait a couple years and then add Murray St and Bellarmine. Then you’re public/football vs private/non-football balance stays in place.

I get it in a vacuum, but as I’ve noted in other discussions over the past few months, that’s simply not how conferences are approaching this round of realignment. There are a lot more aggressive “do it now” moves and leagues are being much more about long-term strategy as opposed to maximizing short-term dollars. Even totally content leagues like the MAC took a swing at adding schools.

It wouldn’t shock me if the MVC jumped up to 14 schools.

Going past 10 or 12 is a poor decision for 1 bid leagues. I think Murray St helps them stay an occasional 2 bid league. Bellarmine intrigues me because they are a football first (and only school) and I think their profile is in line with the likes of Drake, Valpo, Belmont, Bradley, and Evansville.

Depends on what your priorities are.

If you want to cut down travel costs adding a few more can do that for you. Look at what Sun Belt has done creating one very tight division and one pretty tight division

(11-16-2021 10:42 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  This is a gamble for Loyola because of the higher level of competition they will be playing in the A10.

Its not like they were exhibiting the strength of Butler for 20 years prior to the A10 bid.

(11-17-2021 12:28 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Loyola has had 2 good teams in 35 years and goes vast stretches without fielding quality teams. It's a gamble by the A-10, they could wind up with another doormat like Duquesne or Fordham.

The amount of investment Loyola has made in athletics in the last decade has been significant. New practice facility, remodel and upgrade of basically everything.

And, BTW, just like Watson was at Dayton, then rebuilt Bona as AD, then Loyola as AD.... Watson worked at UD with Dave Harper, who's now the AD of Duquesne.

They have been a loyal A-10 soldier the last few years, winning OOC games despite their conference standing and helping the league, AND they just finished two years of nomadic "home games" at Robert Morris and other Pittsburgh venues while completely rebuilding their home arena from the ground up.

Duquesne is investing like Loyola did. Hopefully, we're getting two new good teams in Loyola and a resurrected Duquesne soon.

Here is my thoughts. I do think MVC will lose three of their football public schools soon, or they think they are losing them.

Missouri State to CUSA
Illinois State to the MAC with WKU or CUSA
Northern Iowa been hinting they wanted to go FBS in the past.

MVC knows more than what we do know on who else is leaving the conference. If you noticed? Murray State got pushed behind other public schools, and Missouri State is not happy. If they leave? Than Murray State will be stuck in OVC or they go to the ASUN.