Matt Norlander's article

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...nsas-city/

Amazing, just when we though it was all done. Now eyes on UT-Arlington, Kansas City and Murray State. Who knows, a 14th (Frank's UIC choice).

Norlander says the A10 is not losing anyone. So much for my UMass speculation.

Well now, this is interesting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonRothstein/...8970451975

(11-16-2021 07:56 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Well now, this is interesting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonRothstein/...8970451975

He's been pushing that for weeks now. Realistically with the money though, it's not happening.

I can think of about $9 million reasons Temple is not going back to the A-10.

(11-16-2021 07:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 07:56 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Well now, this is interesting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonRothstein/...8970451975

He's been pushing that for weeks now. Realistically with the money though, it's not happening.

Agreed.

The only leagues that any AAC school will possibly leave for are the P5 and Big East.

(11-16-2021 07:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 07:56 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Well now, this is interesting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonRothstein/...8970451975

He's been pushing that for weeks now. Realistically with the money though, it's not happening.

Yeah, Rothstein’s been pushing that for awhile. I’m going to need to see someone else report it before believing it.

(11-16-2021 06:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  MVC to A10 isn't that big a jump. A10 a little stronger most years and a consistent multi-bid conference. MVC much better fan support around the league.

It isn't a big jump. The top of the MVC and top of the A10 are similar. It's just the amount of teams in each tier each conference has. The MVC usually has 4 good teams capable of making the NCAA Tournament if they all have a good year, and two of them will if they all have a good year.

The A-10 just has a group of seven schools like that, and seven schools in a given year that are rebuilding and bad or inconsistent.


Also, the fan support thing is silly. You really need to let attendance go.

The A-10 has a higher average attendance than the MVC. Five A-10 schools had a higher home attendance in 2019-20 than the first place attendance team in the MVC.

The A-10 also in the last year of data had one homeless team while their arena was being completely re-done (Duquesne). And most MVC schools are in the middle of no where, while Fordham, St. Joe's, LaSalle, Davidson, Mason, GW have the Knicks, 76ers, Hornets and Wizards in their city.


And of course, Loyola is actually NINTH in the MVC in attendance and got the call over other teams. Attendance doesn't matter. Unless that's all you have to hang your hat on.

(11-16-2021 08:08 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 06:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  MVC to A10 isn't that big a jump. A10 a little stronger most years and a consistent multi-bid conference. MVC much better fan support around the league.

It isn't a big jump. The top of the MVC and top of the A10 are similar. It's just the amount of teams in each tier each conference has. The MVC usually has 4 good teams capable of making the NCAA Tournament if they all have a good year, and two of them will if they all have a good year.

The A-10 just has a group of seven schools like that, and seven schools in a given year that are rebuilding and bad or inconsistent.


Also, the fan support thing is silly. You really need to let attendance go.

The A-10 has a higher average attendance than the MVC. Five A-10 schools had a higher home attendance in 2019-20 than the first place attendance team in the MVC.

The A-10 also in the last year of data had one homeless team while their arena was being completely re-done (Duquesne). And most MVC schools are in the middle of no where, while Fordham, St. Joe's, LaSalle, Davidson, Mason, GW have the Knicks, 76ers, Hornets and Wizards in their city.


And of course, Loyola is actually NINTH in the MVC in attendance and got the call over other teams. Attendance doesn't matter. Unless that's all you have to hang your hat on.

For the A10- it's just insane how they always seem to get an extra bid out of thin air. Had more bid thieves from them just about over anyone else.

(11-16-2021 07:39 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Matt Norlander's article

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...nsas-city/

Amazing, just when we though it was all done. Now eyes on UT-Arlington, Kansas City and Murray State. Who knows, a 14th (Frank's UIC choice).

Norlander says the A10 is not losing anyone. So much for my UMass speculation.

Reading between the lines in Norlander's article leads me to believe the MVC is planning (with UMKC as a potential #13) to lose another school, such as Missouri State to the FBS ranks.

Well, it was fun while it lasted. Loyola made the right choice here but darn this one is tough. Chin up, who knows, MAYBE Temple DOES go back to A10 and indy in football and Memphis, SMU, and USF go AAC and at that point it makes sense for Wichita and Tulsa (indy football) to jump to the Valley. And before everyone comes in and craps on this, remember I just read this and congratulate me for making it to the third stage of grief so fast.

I want to differ with a couple of posts that said UMASS might leave the A10 to go to C-USA (all sports).

That is NOT happening. Travel expense (all sports) would be a nightmare. Also BAD media deal in C-USA.

NOW-- all UMASS sports to the MAC (with WKU) would make a lot more sense. Better travel. Better media deal.

Also-- if you have not been following recent events-- UMASS recently TURNED DOWN an all sports invite from the MAC--- so WHY would they take the same invite from C-USA? ANSWER. They would NOT.

(11-16-2021 07:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 07:56 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Well now, this is interesting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonRothstein/...8970451975

He's been pushing that for weeks now. Realistically with the money though, it's not happening.

There is no support for it either from a Temple perspective. Rothstein just looks foolish continuing to suggest it.

(11-16-2021 09:07 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  I want to differ with a couple of posts that said UMASS might leave the A10 to go to C-USA (all sports).

That is NOT happening. Travel expense (all sports) would be a nightmare. Also BAD media deal in C-USA.

NOW-- all UMASS sports to the MAC (with WKU) would make a lot more sense. Better travel. Better media deal.

Also-- if you have not been following recent events-- UMASS recently TURNED DOWN an all sports invite from the MAC--- so WHY would they take the same invite from C-USA? ANSWER. They would NOT.

Yeah, if we're leaving the A-10 it's not going to be for CUSA. The MAC is much more likely, but that's not very likely as of right now.

(11-16-2021 06:34 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  I think this is a pre-emptive move for the A10. St. Louis and Dayton may be heading to the Big East with their expansion talks for a new Fox TV deal

Those two stick out, but so does UMass. Someone brought up La Salle and their woes…I would wonder if the conference would “compel” them to rethink why they belong in the conference, but, then, when you have the likes of Fordham, Duquesne, and George Mason all doing nothing as well, maybe not so likely.

(11-16-2021 07:00 PM)3BNole Wrote:  The other possibility is that there aren’t any specific moves on the horizon but they are just being safe. I mean, look at how many potential moves have been listed: UMASS, Dayton, St. Louis… plus financial issues with some schools which could affect affiliation. I think it’s very possible that the A10 looked at what happened to CUSA and said, we don’t want that to happen to us.

That... is just never going to happen. UMass to FBS league? Plausible.

Who else is adding FBS football and leaving soon? Rhode Island? VCU? George Mason? That's all the public schools in the A-10. So, probably not anyone else and those are all very unlikely.

The Big East could expand, sure. But there are 11 members of the A-10 who are either Big East, or staying put in the A-10. Saint Louis, Dayton, Duquesne, St. Bonaventure, Davidson, Richmond, VCU could theoretically get a Big East invite someday.

Saint Joseph's, George Washington, La Salle, Rhode Island, George Mason and Fordham absolutely cannot.

La Salle and Fordham could leave for D3 or Patriot League? We'd waive their exit fees and pop champagne.

But unless the Big East expands to 18 schools, the Atlantic 10 is going to be locked into where it is right now: The best non-FBS/non-Big East conference in basketball.


The A-10 has been pretty good at pro-actively capitalizing: Charlotte and Saint Louis because C-USA changed lanes to FBS only; Butler and VCU because the writing was on the wall with the Big East and we could take them IN ADVANCE and make sure we didn't get usurped as the top non-FBS conference (besides the Big East split). Lining up Mason and Davidson BEFORE the Big East split...

We added Loyola because every non-FBS or non-Big East member to make a Final Four in the last 40 years is now an A-10 school or Gonzaga.

We have 11 Final Four banners. The rest of non-FBS conference or Big East members have 16 total, and only two since Larry Bird at Indiana State, (and both of those are by Gonzaga).

If there’s something realignment has taught us the past 30 years is to expect the unexpected. It amazes me how people on this board still get shocked on stories like this.

(11-16-2021 08:43 PM)mvcfan76 Wrote:  Well, it was fun while it lasted. Loyola made the right choice here but darn this one is tough. Chin up, who knows, MAYBE Temple DOES go back to A10 and indy in football and Memphis, SMU, and USF go AAC and at that point it makes sense for Wichita and Tulsa (indy football) to jump to the Valley. And before everyone comes in and craps on this, remember I just read this and congratulate me for making it to the third stage of grief so fast.

It's a shame that the football/basketball choice is now hitting the Sun Belt, MVC, WAC, OVC, A-Sun and CAA. There's really no reason for the MVC to face this kind of reckoning.

Like, you're all your size, in your region, some with basketball, some with football. Anyone who's basketball-first is going to see the A-10 as a better option if they can get in -- just like my A-10 is with the Big East. Every single one of us would join the Big East if invited, and really only six schools even have a remote prayer of it ever happening.

Anyone who's football-first is always going to wonder about playing with the Big Boys; and the catch-22 is that when you're really good at FCS, the powers start wondering what if.

I'm not sure who your school is, but the Valley will probably always have a group of schools who are pretty good at basketball, too small for FBS and located in the midwest who can easily find a home together.

Honestly, I have favored Belmont over Loyola as the next A-10 team for a long time, despite the Final Four and Sweet 16, even though Loyola AD Steve Watson is basically a Bonnie. (He didn't go there, but he grew up near there and was our AD before going to Loyola). Belmont is a GREAT add. I expect the MVC to basically be the same level of hoops as usual: Deserving two bids or three bids, getting screwed over by the P5 cartel that hands out at-larges.

(11-16-2021 09:49 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 08:43 PM)mvcfan76 Wrote:  Well, it was fun while it lasted. Loyola made the right choice here but darn this one is tough. Chin up, who knows, MAYBE Temple DOES go back to A10 and indy in football and Memphis, SMU, and USF go AAC and at that point it makes sense for Wichita and Tulsa (indy football) to jump to the Valley. And before everyone comes in and craps on this, remember I just read this and congratulate me for making it to the third stage of grief so fast.

It's a shame that the football/basketball choice is now hitting the Sun Belt, MVC, WAC, OVC, A-Sun and CAA. There's really no reason for the MVC to face this kind of reckoning.

Like, you're all your size, in your region, some with basketball, some with football. Anyone who's basketball-first is going to see the A-10 as a better option if they can get in -- just like my A-10 is with the Big East. Every single one of us would join the Big East if invited, and really only six schools even have a remote prayer of it ever happening.

Anyone who's football-first is always going to wonder about playing with the Big Boys; and the catch-22 is that when you're really good at FCS, the powers start wondering what if.

I'm not sure who your school is, but the Valley will probably always have a group of schools who are pretty good at basketball, too small for FBS and located in the midwest who can easily find a home together.

Honestly, I have favored Belmont over Loyola as the next A-10 team for a long time, despite the Final Four and Sweet 16, even though Loyola AD Steve Watson is basically a Bonnie. (He didn't go there, but he grew up near there and was our AD before going to Loyola). Belmont is a GREAT add. I expect the MVC to basically be the same level of hoops as usual: Deserving two bids or three bids, getting screwed over by the P5 cartel that hands out at-larges.

I was at the Final 4 in San Antonio and the people sitting by me were St Bonaventure people who got their tickets from Watson, lol.

(11-16-2021 06:05 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Fordham going anywhere?

Doubtful, Patriot League is the only option.
But like Frank said there's no reason to make less money in lower conference while keeping expenses about the same. I know they've been embarrassing themselves for 25 years now in this league but I think they are staying. They would have made a number of NCAA trips had they stayed in Patriot League though.

(11-16-2021 09:42 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If there’s something realignment has taught us the past 30 years is to expect the unexpected. It amazes me how people on this board still get shocked on stories like this.

This was shocking, though. But not because of the move, but because it was actually fully done behind closed doors.

I'm the dude with spreadsheets on possible A-10 candidates; google alerts for conference expansion and A-10 topics. Billions of words typed on multiple realignment boards.

The first item posted online about "Loyola possibly joining the A-10" was the official announcement itself.

That hasn't happened in college sports in over 20 years.