(11-08-2021 10:30 AM)mufanatehc Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 10:24 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 09:03 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Not sure how Conf USA can respond. EKU, UT-Chat, McNeese? Very slim pickings.

Can Conf USA legacy members collect exit fees and disband in a few years to pursue independence? It's not looking good...

If I were them I'd find a travel partner for FIU and one for JSU. That would give you eight teams, in four pairs. I just don't know who you can get for FIU?

There isn't anyone, unless they can convince FGCU to start football. FGCU and FIU are around 2 hours apart.

What about North Florida? Other teams not in the southeast would be Lamar, Central Arkansas and prehaps Missouri State, Eastern Kentucky and Kennesaw State maybe?

(11-08-2021 03:51 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 02:50 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  If an exit fee is big enough to be a deterrent to an otherwise-reasonable move, then it won't hold up in court. Exit fees can only be for "liquidated damages", not designed as a penalty.

Surely lawyers can find a way around that issue. Charge them a $15 million entrance fee and give them the money back after 15 years if they are still in the conference at that point. Something like that.

Well, a Grant of Rights is much simpler, it's practically on LegalZoom at this point.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8jb5kvZ...4Jjn85wwlA

(11-08-2021 03:51 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 02:50 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  If an exit fee is big enough to be a deterrent to an otherwise-reasonable move, then it won't hold up in court. Exit fees can only be for "liquidated damages", not designed as a penalty.

Surely lawyers can find a way around that issue. Charge them a $15 million entrance fee and give them the money back after 15 years if they are still in the conference at that point. Something like that.

Of course they can find a way around the issue, lawyers being clever. What they came up with was having the schools use their power to grant exclusive rights (firmly established in the 1980s) to grant the right to media coverage to the conference for an extended period of time, so that leaving a couple of years early is an expensive proposition of gaining permission from the conference you are leaving, which requires a massive increment in rights fees to justify it and leaving 5-10 years early with entangled rights just isn't worth it.

(11-08-2021 04:56 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 03:51 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 02:50 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  If an exit fee is big enough to be a deterrent to an otherwise-reasonable move, then it won't hold up in court. Exit fees can only be for "liquidated damages", not designed as a penalty.

Surely lawyers can find a way around that issue. Charge them a $15 million entrance fee and give them the money back after 15 years if they are still in the conference at that point. Something like that.

Of course they can find a way around the issue, lawyers being clever. What they came up with was having the schools use their power to grant exclusive rights (firmly established in the 1980s) to grant the right to media coverage to the conference for an extended period of time, so that leaving a couple of years early is an expensive proposition of gaining permission from the conference you are leaving, which requires a massive increment in rights fees to justify it and leaving 5-10 years early with entangled rights just isn't worth it.

we will see what UT and OU do and whether they leave before 2025

Hawaii doe snot pay any travel subsidies to the MWC for Football.

Hawaii pays subsidies of a bit under $1m a year to the Big West for Olympic Sports. No school really likes paying to send their Volleyball or Tennis teams there, as it's pricey. The same is not true of flying somewhere like Hartford or Boston. Traveling east is also better than traveling west (had a lot to do with Texas saying no to the Pac-10 in 2011 and yes to the SEC in 2021) as far as lost class time and late nights.

For football it's less of an issue as the revenue pays for the flights. Also Hawaii is surprisingly good recruiting for mainland schools in the western US for football players (not just Hawaii, but also places like the Samoa and Guam), as everyone on the Islands wants to go to school on the mainland and get out of the economic backwater of the Islands.

Not A Done Deal For MTSU To The MAC


It is behind a pay wall. It sounds like MTSU may not go to the MAC. If they stay? It sounds like MAC may never send invites out to anybody.

(11-08-2021 05:07 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Hawaii doe snot pay any travel subsidies to the MWC for Football.

Hawaii pays subsidies of a bit under $1m a year to the Big West for Olympic Sports. No school really likes paying to send their Volleyball or Tennis teams there, as it's pricey. The same is not true of flying somewhere like Hartford or Boston. Traveling east is also better than traveling west (had a lot to do with Texas saying no to the Pac-10 in 2011 and yes to the SEC in 2021) as far as lost class time and late nights.

For football it's less of an issue as the revenue pays for the flights. Also Hawaii is surprisingly good recruiting for mainland schools in the western US for football players (not just Hawaii, but also places like the Samoa and Guam), as everyone on the Islands wants to go to school on the mainland and get out of the economic backwater of the Islands.

Uhhh….Hawaii does pay travel subsidies for Football. But it’s is less than what they pay the Big West for travel subsidies.
It was part of the deal for them to leave the WAC for the MW.

(11-08-2021 04:01 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 10:36 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  A pod with Liberty, UMass, UConn, and another NE FCS (All sports)?

Then LA Tech, SHSU, UTEP, NMSU.

Other all sports would be JSU, EKU, UT-Chat, FIU (which is it's own pod).

But you'd need two divisions or a waiver to play a CCG with three pods.

Fugly...

FGCU school leaders said they are not going to add football.

North Florida still have not dropped the idea of adding football.

I still think MTSU and WKU is working on trying to get Chattanooga and Missouri State on board. They will stay if these two schools say yes now. NDSU and SDSU and UMASS as football only, then add North Florida, Dayton and VCU.

Wut. Why would you single out those 3 schools, and why would Dayton or VCU leave the A10.

(11-08-2021 03:38 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 03:21 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Interesting that it works financially for WKU but not MTSU. Just a reminder that the margins are razor thin.

I seen a comment in McMurphy's post that could make sense. If MTSU is struggling financially short term, staying in C-USA gets them over $5 million from exit fees while joining the MAC results in them paying $3 million to exit and possibly an entrance fee (the comment said $4 million, but I didn't check to confirm). That would be an over $12 million difference decision at most, and they're probably trying to figure out is best for their athletics program as well as potential travel costs and future revenues long term.

(11-08-2021 06:10 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 03:38 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 03:21 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Interesting that it works financially for WKU but not MTSU. Just a reminder that the margins are razor thin.

I seen a comment in McMurphy's post that could make sense. If MTSU is struggling financially short term, staying in C-USA gets them over $5 million from exit fees while joining the MAC results in them paying $3 million to exit and possibly an entrance fee (the comment said $4 million, but I didn't check to confirm). That would be an over $12 million difference decision at most, and they're probably trying to figure out is best for their athletics program as well as potential travel costs and future revenues long term.

I can't imagine the MAC being that much of a stickler on an entrance fee. Could be negotiated to zero.

(11-08-2021 06:05 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 04:01 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 10:36 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  A pod with Liberty, UMass, UConn, and another NE FCS (All sports)?

Then LA Tech, SHSU, UTEP, NMSU.

Other all sports would be JSU, EKU, UT-Chat, FIU (which is it's own pod).

But you'd need two divisions or a waiver to play a CCG with three pods.

Fugly...

FGCU school leaders said they are not going to add football.

North Florida still have not dropped the idea of adding football.

I still think MTSU and WKU is working on trying to get Chattanooga and Missouri State on board. They will stay if these two schools say yes now. NDSU and SDSU and UMASS as football only, then add North Florida, Dayton and VCU.

Wut. Why would you single out those 3 schools, and why would Dayton or VCU leave the A10.

Big East looking to expand before their next TV contract.

(11-08-2021 06:17 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 06:10 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 03:38 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 03:21 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Interesting that it works financially for WKU but not MTSU. Just a reminder that the margins are razor thin.

I seen a comment in McMurphy's post that could make sense. If MTSU is struggling financially short term, staying in C-USA gets them over $5 million from exit fees while joining the MAC results in them paying $3 million to exit and possibly an entrance fee (the comment said $4 million, but I didn't check to confirm). That would be an over $12 million difference decision at most, and they're probably trying to figure out is best for their athletics program as well as potential travel costs and future revenues long term.

I can't imagine the MAC being that much of a stickler on an entrance fee. Could be negotiated to zero.

Why? They dont need either of them. MTSU and WKU should be willing to pay 10m just to enter the MAC since theyre so desperate.

(11-08-2021 06:17 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 06:10 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 03:38 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 03:21 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Interesting that it works financially for WKU but not MTSU. Just a reminder that the margins are razor thin.

I seen a comment in McMurphy's post that could make sense. If MTSU is struggling financially short term, staying in C-USA gets them over $5 million from exit fees while joining the MAC results in them paying $3 million to exit and possibly an entrance fee (the comment said $4 million, but I didn't check to confirm). That would be an over $12 million difference decision at most, and they're probably trying to figure out is best for their athletics program as well as potential travel costs and future revenues long term.

I can't imagine the MAC being that much of a stickler on an entrance fee. Could be negotiated to zero.

That's what I thought, that's why I had said $12 million at most, but even if the entrance fee is dropped, it's still over $8 million. I'm not familar with MTSU's finances, but it's something to consider with a deal not done to this point. Not saying there will be no deal or it's a done deal, I'm figurimg both side are probably still doing their homework and there's no rush to get to a decision.

(11-08-2021 03:38 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(11-08-2021 03:21 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Interesting that it works financially for WKU but not MTSU. Just a reminder that the margins are razor thin.

I don't think the finances are different, just WKU really wants out, while MTSU (leadership anyway) is less convinced, weighing it's options. I think that is reflected in MTSU reaching out to the new C-USA members and saying they have many options, while WKU went silent.

If WKU is that intent on moving, wonder if they are trying to recruit a 14th school for the MAC in case MTSU decides against it.

It’s not terrible if Conf USA keeps the existing 9. It’s up to the MAC to be somewhat reasonable relative to the benefits the pair would receive remaining in Conf USA. Conf USA with those 9 can add a few more in the Sunbelt region and get right back to 12 in the long term. It’s a very viable conference. I think the MAC has slightly more to lose in the long term. UMass is not going to help their travel issues. You could go WKU and UMass if MTSU is playing hardball but we don’t know how far both sides are apart.

If I’m the MAC, I’d waive the entrance fee (or negotiate 2 for 1) and get some assurances from ESPN. MTSU is sitting on cash otherwise for the next couple of years and can come back to the negotiating table later. That’s why the MAC can’t overplay their hand.

I don’t think I was too far off when I said it was probably a money issue (and MTSU believing they have an outside shot to replace Memphis in a couple years).

What many may not know (or may have forgotten) is that several years back when the AAC negotiated their current TV contract with ESPN and got the big bump up to ~7 mil per team, they had an even bigger offer on the table from ESPN if the teams were willing to sign on to a GOR. For probably obvious reasons, they declined to go the GOR route.

But in this latest MAC scenario, probably a similar situation played out where MAC asked what ESPN would be able to do for the league if they added WKU & MTSU, and the network probably responded with a sweet offer that included a built-in raise for ALL parties if the GOR was part of the deal.

So just part of business, and one way for everybody to come out ahead in the move.

But CUSA made a move since that offer came out, and MT is not as desperate as they were one week ago.

I’d say what’s going on now is the GOR length is getting negotiated down to 8-12 years for MT to be able to justify it. And GOR or not, MT going to MAC now probably makes an MT-to-AAC move less likely in the future.

(11-08-2021 07:37 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  What many may not know (or may have forgotten) is that several years back when the AAC negotiated their current TV contract with ESPN and got the big bump up to ~7 mil per team, they had an even bigger offer on the table from ESPN if the teams were willing to sign on to a GOR. For probably obvious reasons, they declined to go the GOR route.

But in this latest MAC scenario, probably a similar situation played out where MAC asked what ESPN would be able to do for the league if they added WKU & MTSU, and the network probably responded with a sweet offer that included a built-in raise for ALL parties if the GOR was part of the deal.

So just part of business, and one way for everybody to come out ahead in the move.

But CUSA made a move since that offer came out, and MT is not as desperate as they were one week ago.

I’d say what’s going on now is the GOR length is getting negotiated down to 8-12 years for MT to be able to justify it. And GOR or not, MT going to MAC now probably makes an MT-to-AAC move less likely in the future.

That's a lot pf personal speculation going on there, and not a shred of evidence.

The GoR could be the sticking point in MTSU’s decision if they honestly believe the AAC invite is in the bag. ESPN is unlikely to move GSU to the AAC given they already control them in the SBC. They will look for a school outside its umbrella to replace Memphis.

Given the coming exit fees, MTSU can make all the investments they need to prime themselves for the AAC bid. That’s why the GoR rumor is probably true.

(11-08-2021 07:43 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  The GoR could be the sticking point in MTSU’s decision if they honestly believe the AAC invite is in the bag.

If they are this delusional, that anything is "in the bag" then I really don't want them in the conference.