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(10-18-2021 06:47 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Dantonio really raised the level of our defense.

... But our offense was archaic.

...and making that win over #7 Rutgers all the more improbable. That was such a huge, pivotal win for the program.

(10-18-2021 06:47 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Dantonio really raised the level of our defense.

... But our offense was archaic.

The 2006 season I went to the Miami U game at Nippert. That was the first time I really noticed Cincinnati having much better Athletes than Miami U. I also remember basically being the only person in the Stadium.

(10-19-2021 05:15 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 06:47 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Dantonio really raised the level of our defense.

... But our offense was archaic.

The 2006 season I went to the Miami U game at Nippert. That was the first time I really noticed Cincinnati having much better Athletes than Miami U. I also remember basically being the only person in the Stadium.

Bolded, so true and it's become more apparent year by year when playing Miami.

That win over #7 Rutgers was a joy to behold that night too. It's almost unthinkable now that so many seats were empty for that, especially where we are today with the remaining two November home games pretty much sold out by mid-October. We've come a long way in a relatively short time.

(10-19-2021 07:38 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 05:15 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 06:47 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Dantonio really raised the level of our defense.

... But our offense was archaic.

The 2006 season I went to the Miami U game at Nippert. That was the first time I really noticed Cincinnati having much better Athletes than Miami U. I also remember basically being the only person in the Stadium.

Bolded, so true and it's become more apparent year by year when playing Miami.

That win over #7 Rutgers was a joy to behold that night too. It's almost unthinkable now that so many seats were empty for that, especially where we are today with the remaining two November home games pretty much sold out by mid-October. We've come a long way in a relatively short time.

Wrong I was the only person in the stadium.

(10-19-2021 05:15 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 06:47 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Dantonio really raised the level of our defense.

... But our offense was archaic.

The 2006 season I went to the Miami U game at Nippert. That was the first time I really noticed Cincinnati having much better Athletes than Miami U. I also remember basically being the only person in the Stadium.

This was the first game I ever attended as a new student. It was nice to lay out in the student section and drink some beers. Had two high school teammates on that Miami team.

(10-19-2021 07:42 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 07:38 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 05:15 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 06:47 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Dantonio really raised the level of our defense.

... But our offense was archaic.

The 2006 season I went to the Miami U game at Nippert. That was the first time I really noticed Cincinnati having much better Athletes than Miami U. I also remember basically being the only person in the Stadium.

Bolded, so true and it's become more apparent year by year when playing Miami.

That win over #7 Rutgers was a joy to behold that night too. It's almost unthinkable now that so many seats were empty for that, especially where we are today with the remaining two November home games pretty much sold out by mid-October. We've come a long way in a relatively short time.

Wrong I was the only person in the stadium.

I don't think that game even comes close to the 1989 season when my future wife and I watched UC lose to D2 Morehead State and Northern Illinois, the last two games of the year, to finish 1-10. The Northern Illinois game was a 56-3 massacre loss in late November and in the 4th quarter you could count the fans in the stands on darn near one hand. Even the players parents had left by then.

UC has come a long long way.

(10-19-2021 07:53 AM)Banter Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 05:15 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 06:47 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Dantonio really raised the level of our defense.

... But our offense was archaic.

The 2006 season I went to the Miami U game at Nippert. That was the first time I really noticed Cincinnati having much better Athletes than Miami U. I also remember basically being the only person in the Stadium.

This was the first game I ever attended as a new student. It was nice to lay out in the student section and drink some beers. Had two high school teammates on that Miami team.

Was one of the players a holder for the Kicker? If so I was sitting next to you at some point, and I remember you talking about it.

The only reason it stuck with me is because I remember the person saying "If he makes it to the league holding kicks, that's a good life." Then I thought, "It doesn't quite work like that."

(10-18-2021 01:15 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(10-15-2021 10:28 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  At last week's game, I heard some folks in our section, saying "Hello Coach," and turned to see Dantonio walking up the steps (from the field level I suspect). He smiled and seemed to appreciate the greetings.

I think he, Tressel, and Fickell are very close and it's great to have a coach back who took this program another evolutionary step toward where we are today.

Dantonio may have been the best talent evaluator coach that UC has ever had. His recruiting classes weren't anything at all to get excited about at signing day but most of those guys were the ones who led UC to two BCS bowls.

The 2004, 05 and 06 classes had just six 3-star guys combined. Yet produced guys like Mardy Gilyard, Dominc Goodman, Mike Mickens, Connor Barwin, Kevin Huber, Haruki Nakamura, etc.. And all of those classes were ranked in the 80-110 range.

Thank you Mark Dantonio.

I’m friends with a guy that played for minter and dantonio.

(I didn’t know him back in the day when he was playing. Got to know him when we were both in our 30’s.)

He says of all our coaches from minter to present, dantonia is by far the worst in regards to viewing the UC program as beneath him, and being solely focused on using it as a stepping stone to move on to better things as soon as he could.

That is one player’s opinion. A player that might or might not have been a team captain.

Take it for what it’s worth.

(10-18-2021 06:58 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 06:47 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Dantonio really raised the level of our defense.

... But our offense was archaic.

...and making that win over #7 Rutgers all the more improbable. That was such a huge, pivotal win for the program.

That game solidified my interest in the program. I was young but remember coming home from the movies and turning it on and thinking how cool the upset was.

(10-19-2021 07:05 PM)namrag Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 01:15 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(10-15-2021 10:28 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  At last week's game, I heard some folks in our section, saying "Hello Coach," and turned to see Dantonio walking up the steps (from the field level I suspect). He smiled and seemed to appreciate the greetings.

I think he, Tressel, and Fickell are very close and it's great to have a coach back who took this program another evolutionary step toward where we are today.

Dantonio may have been the best talent evaluator coach that UC has ever had. His recruiting classes weren't anything at all to get excited about at signing day but most of those guys were the ones who led UC to two BCS bowls.

The 2004, 05 and 06 classes had just six 3-star guys combined. Yet produced guys like Mardy Gilyard, Dominc Goodman, Mike Mickens, Connor Barwin, Kevin Huber, Haruki Nakamura, etc.. And all of those classes were ranked in the 80-110 range.

Thank you Mark Dantonio.

I’m friends with a guy that played for minter and dantonio.

(I didn’t know him back in the day when he was playing. Got to know him when we were both in our 30’s.)

He says of all our coaches from minter to present, dantonia is by far the worst in regards to viewing the UC program as beneath him, and being solely focused on using it as a stepping stone to move on to better things as soon as he could.

That is one player’s opinion. A player that might or might not have been a team captain.

Take it for what it’s worth.

I don't see that as a huge mark against Dantonio.

That's what we were back then. To think otherwise is pure denial.

To a slightly lesser extent, that's what we still are. We're just lucky at the moment that we have a coach who is a perfect fit for us. If/when Fickell leaves, we'll probably be right back to losing successful coaches every 3-4 years.

(10-19-2021 10:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 07:05 PM)namrag Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 01:15 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(10-15-2021 10:28 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  At last week's game, I heard some folks in our section, saying "Hello Coach," and turned to see Dantonio walking up the steps (from the field level I suspect). He smiled and seemed to appreciate the greetings.

I think he, Tressel, and Fickell are very close and it's great to have a coach back who took this program another evolutionary step toward where we are today.

Dantonio may have been the best talent evaluator coach that UC has ever had. His recruiting classes weren't anything at all to get excited about at signing day but most of those guys were the ones who led UC to two BCS bowls.

The 2004, 05 and 06 classes had just six 3-star guys combined. Yet produced guys like Mardy Gilyard, Dominc Goodman, Mike Mickens, Connor Barwin, Kevin Huber, Haruki Nakamura, etc.. And all of those classes were ranked in the 80-110 range.

Thank you Mark Dantonio.

I’m friends with a guy that played for minter and dantonio.

(I didn’t know him back in the day when he was playing. Got to know him when we were both in our 30’s.)

He says of all our coaches from minter to present, dantonia is by far the worst in regards to viewing the UC program as beneath him, and being solely focused on using it as a stepping stone to move on to better things as soon as he could.

That is one player’s opinion. A player that might or might not have been a team captain.

Take it for what it’s worth.

I don't see that as a huge mark against Dantonio.

That's what we were back then. To think otherwise is pure denial.

"Pure denial"? How in the heck do you figure we were "beneath" Mark Dantonio? He was never a HC anywhere before us and we were in a BCS conference at the time. And frankly he wasn't that great for us - look at his record. He was just in the right place at the right time with the right history when the right school needed a particular type of replacement. (edit: I wrote this originally about him getting the MSU job, but it's also true to an extent about him getting the UC job. Goin got tired of waiting for Jimbo Fisher to decide if he wanted the UC job and turned to Dantonio instead.)

Quote:To a slightly lesser extent, that's what we still are. We're just lucky at the moment that we have a coach who is a perfect fit for us. If/when Fickell leaves, we'll probably be right back to losing successful coaches every 3-4 years.

Not really. I mean every place is a stepping stone to somewhere - look at all the names/schools being talked about as replacements at LSU. But going forward in a P5 at a place where it has been proven twice that a good coach can win big at gives us a better shot than many at holding onto any future coaches.

That's what we were back then. To think otherwise is pure denial.[/quote]

"Pure denial"? How in the heck do you figure we were "beneath" Mark Dantonio? He was never a HC anywhere before us and we were in a BCS conference at the time. And frankly he wasn't that great for us - look at his record. He was just in the right place at the right time with the right history when the right school needed a particular type of replacement.

Quote:To a slightly lesser extent, that's what we still are. We're just lucky at the moment that we have a coach who is a perfect fit for us. If/when Fickell leaves, we'll probably be right back to losing successful coaches every 3-4 years.

Not really. I mean every place is a stepping stone to somewhere - look at all the names/schools being talked about as replacements at LSU. But going forward in a P5 at a place where it has been proven twice that a good coach can win big at gives us a better shot than many at holding onto any future coaches.
[/quote]

Bolded, that's always true. If and when Fickell leaves (or retires), he has two specific attributes that need to be considered in his successor: someone who is plugged in to OH recruiting and who wants to be part of UC and the Cincinnati community. Are there rising coaches now who possess those attributes? They may not be "ready now" but in terms of connection to UC Guidugli, Mickens, Tressel and Freeman are top of mind.

(10-20-2021 07:57 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Bolded, that's always true. If and when Fickell leaves (or retires), he has two specific attributes that need to be considered in his successor: someone who is plugged in to OH recruiting and who wants to be part of UC and the Cincinnati community. Are there rising coaches now who possess those attributes? They may not be "ready now" but in terms of connection to UC Guidugli, Mickens, Tressel and Freeman are top of mind.

Freeman is probably the only one who jumps out as ready right now, but hopefully there will be a lot more by the time Luke eventually leaves or retires. Besides those you mentioned on the current staff it sounds like Scruggs could be on the fast track and just spit-ballin' for the heck of it but I wonder if Bolden is looking to make coaching his career (see "secret weapon" thread).

Of course, eventually getting somebody with UC experience is just a bonus, not a necessity. But I do think the perceived level of commitment of a candidate is a legitimate factor in the hiring process.

(10-20-2021 11:44 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 07:57 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Bolded, that's always true. If and when Fickell leaves (or retires), he has two specific attributes that need to be considered in his successor: someone who is plugged in to OH recruiting and who wants to be part of UC and the Cincinnati community. Are there rising coaches now who possess those attributes? They may not be "ready now" but in terms of connection to UC Guidugli, Mickens, Tressel and Freeman are top of mind.

Freeman is probably the only one who jumps out as ready right now, but hopefully there will be a lot more by the time Luke eventually leaves or retires. Besides those you mentioned on the current staff it sounds like Scruggs could be on the fast track and just spit-ballin' for the heck of it but I wonder if Bolden is looking to make coaching his career (see "secret weapon" thread).

Of course, eventually getting somebody with UC experience is just a bonus, not a necessity. But I do think the perceived level of commitment of a candidate is a legitimate factor in the hiring process.

I don't think it's that big of a factor. Mainly because it's really hard to judge ahead of time.

Gary Patterson had no commitment to TCU before he became their head coach.

Chris Petersen had no commitment to Boise other than being the OC for the previous 4 years. Yet he stayed for 8 years despite being the most desirable HC candidate in the country.

Frank Solich had zero commitment to Ohio, but he stayed for 16 years despite multiple bigger offers.


On the other hand, even alums often leave: Kliff Kingsbury left Texas Tech. Bryan Harsin left Boise for a job across the country (I don't recall his name being high on any other coaching searches either).

(10-20-2021 12:15 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 11:44 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 07:57 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Bolded, that's always true. If and when Fickell leaves (or retires), he has two specific attributes that need to be considered in his successor: someone who is plugged in to OH recruiting and who wants to be part of UC and the Cincinnati community. Are there rising coaches now who possess those attributes? They may not be "ready now" but in terms of connection to UC Guidugli, Mickens, Tressel and Freeman are top of mind.

Freeman is probably the only one who jumps out as ready right now, but hopefully there will be a lot more by the time Luke eventually leaves or retires. Besides those you mentioned on the current staff it sounds like Scruggs could be on the fast track and just spit-ballin' for the heck of it but I wonder if Bolden is looking to make coaching his career (see "secret weapon" thread).

Of course, eventually getting somebody with UC experience is just a bonus, not a necessity. But I do think the perceived level of commitment of a candidate is a legitimate factor in the hiring process.

I don't think it's that big of a factor. Mainly because it's really hard to judge ahead of time.

Gary Patterson had no commitment to TCU before he became their head coach.

Chris Petersen had no commitment to Boise other than being the OC for the previous 4 years. Yet he stayed for 8 years despite being the most desirable HC candidate in the country.

Frank Solich had zero commitment to Ohio, but he stayed for 16 years despite multiple bigger offers.


On the other hand, even alums often leave: Kliff Kingsbury left Texas Tech. Bryan Harsin left Boise for a job across the country (I don't recall his name being high on any other coaching searches either).

I guess I kinda see where you are coming from in the context of the discussion, but I chose the word "commitment" in that bolded sentence intentionally to make a broader point as history/experience doesn't necessarily align 100% with commitment.

Not that some people aren't good liars and of course things change, but I think that's something you try to hash out in the interview/hiring process and I'm not just talking about football. Nobody wants to have a turnstile hiring process for any job. I'm sure you understand preferring not to hire somebody with one foot already out the door.

I'm well aware that there are no guarantees and just looking at background is often a superficial analysis. He had a lengthy stay here, but we don't have to look farther than Mick going to UCLA to see that.

(10-20-2021 12:15 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I don't think it's that big of a factor. Mainly because it's really hard to judge ahead of time.

Gary Patterson had no commitment to TCU before he became their head coach.

Chris Petersen had no commitment to Boise other than being the OC for the previous 4 years. Yet he stayed for 8 years despite being the most desirable HC candidate in the country.

Frank Solich had zero commitment to Ohio, but he stayed for 16 years despite multiple bigger offers.


On the other hand, even alums often leave: Kliff Kingsbury left Texas Tech. Bryan Harsin left Boise for a job across the country (I don't recall his name being high on any other coaching searches either).

I agree with the idea that it can be hard to evaluate ahead of time, but I think your examples need work.

- Freeman was listed by the OP as a guy with UC "ties" because of 4 years as a coordinator here so it seems like Peterson's 4 years as OC at Boise should be considered similarly.

- Maybe I missed them, but I don't recall Solich turning down "multiple, bigger" offers to leave Ohio U. More importantly, I think he's an example of a guy who was likely to have a certain amount of commitment (based upon age and experience elsewhere) even without a history at Ohio U.

- Kingsbury was fired at Texas Tech after a 35-40 record:

Quote:This decision was made based on a three-year pattern, a three-year pattern of inconsistency," athletic director Kirby Hocutt said during a campus news conference. "We saw progress, but we also saw lapses of progress in key critical areas."

As an aside, I'm not sure what it says that he now leads what most people think is the best team in the NFL so far....