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Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
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pvk75 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
As Canadian business associates might say, "bullhockey." Bball is indoors in winter and a lot of weekday nights with zip-squat else to do in DeKalb/Sycamore.

I am lighting a candle for MBB this season.

Washington, Indiana, Missouri, Boston U, Marquette, Dayton ... all on the road ... but win 1-2 and (a stretch, but maybe) 3 of those somehow, and we're "on the map."

As for WBB, still a tough o-o-c slate with Harvard (yes, they're good, and covered with Ivy), DePaul, Illinois State, Drake, Colorado State ... but got to quit playing 1-person-does-it-all bball.

If both do it, revive the bidding for Convo naming rights. Get on it. Don't let it slip away. Complete the damn concourse.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2021 03:22 AM by pvk75.)
10-03-2021 09:02 PM
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Big Red Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-03-2021 08:47 PM)dc1 Wrote:  NIU is a better fit in so many ways to become a basketball school. We are pretending to be a major college football program. Get4-5k at basketball games and we could become a decent mid-major program. Most importantly less money which NIU has none to elevate a basketball program

I've felt for a while the MAC as a conference should steer harder into being a basketball conference.

I'm not sure what the conference could do to make that happen, mind you, but I feel like all of our schools are much better equipped and situated at being basketball schools as opposed to football schools.
10-03-2021 09:42 PM
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dc1 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
Uoftoledo, NIU has enough fans within a 40 minute drive of the convocation center to support basketball. We do not get many fans from Chicago to come out for NIU athletic events. Dekalb County has 100k people and that’s not including the NIU students. Plenty to put 4-5k at games.
10-03-2021 10:09 PM
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dc1 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
The MAC would be a great lower conference if for Saturday football games teams could average 16-20k at football games and 3500 for basketball games.
10-03-2021 10:13 PM
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Teamduh Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-03-2021 02:55 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 02:49 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 01:54 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(09-04-2021 01:37 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(09-03-2021 11:38 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  AAC Football Pods
Pod A - NIU, Toledo, UBuffalo
Pod B - USF, Temple, ECU
Pod C - Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane
Pod D - SMU, Rice, Navy (Navy wants to play SMU every year, is my understanding)

In a scenario where it’s UAB instead of Rice, this is how I would see the pods shaking out.

AAC Football Pods
Pod A - NIU, Toledo, UBuffalo
Pod B - USF, Temple, ECU
Pod C - Memphis, UAB, Tulane
Pod D - SMU, Tulsa, Navy

Would this conference schedule be preferable to the current situation? (Home games in BOLD)

NIU’s 3-year Conference schedules under this (UAB) scenario.

YEAR 1
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs USF
at Temple
vs ECU
at Memphis
vs UAB
at Tulane

YEAR 2
at Toledo
vs UBuffalo
at USF
vs Temple
at ECU
vs SMU
at Tulsa
vs Navy

YEAR 3
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs Memphis
at UAB
vs Tulane
at SMU
vs Tulsa
at Navy

I think this certainly would help from a scheduling perspective. The biggest gain is the end of weeknight MACtion games. I truly believe MACtion is what killed attendance.
I really, really doubt it can be primarily blamed on weekday games. Shifting student demographics had a much larger impact. Illinois exports it's students out of state. Probably 2nd biggest export after corn, lol.


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10-03-2021 10:15 PM
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dc1 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
Not true, it’s not even close most Illinois high school grads go to Illinois schools. I’m assuming you’re just trying to be funny
10-03-2021 10:19 PM
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Teamduh Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-03-2021 10:19 PM)dc1 Wrote:  Not true, it’s not even close most Illinois high school grads go to Illinois schools. I’m assuming you’re just trying to be funny
The end part yes, a little humor but I'm just seeing a great number of students go to Big 10 schools and others and bypass Illinois and they seem to all tell the story of how much cheaper it is to go out of state.

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10-03-2021 10:31 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-03-2021 10:09 PM)dc1 Wrote:  Uoftoledo, NIU has enough fans within a 40 minute drive of the convocation center to support basketball. We do not get many fans from Chicago to come out for NIU athletic events. Dekalb County has 100k people and that’s not including the NIU students. Plenty to put 4-5k at games.

Did not know that. I just heard for years the midweek "excuse" for attendance was the drive and traffic from Chicago.

I have friends in Marengo, so I have stayed in that neck of the woods a handful of times. Converted some Huskies fans as well05-stirthepot. Toledo has plenty of people in our area and suffer from fan decline as well so i feel your pain. The difference is being mad at 20k for a beautiful Saturday instead of a sellout in an area with 3 to 10x the people.
10-03-2021 10:51 PM
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HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-03-2021 10:15 PM)Teamduh Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 02:55 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 02:49 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 01:54 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(09-04-2021 01:37 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  In a scenario where it’s UAB instead of Rice, this is how I would see the pods shaking out.

AAC Football Pods
Pod A - NIU, Toledo, UBuffalo
Pod B - USF, Temple, ECU
Pod C - Memphis, UAB, Tulane
Pod D - SMU, Tulsa, Navy

Would this conference schedule be preferable to the current situation? (Home games in BOLD)

NIU’s 3-year Conference schedules under this (UAB) scenario.

YEAR 1
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs USF
at Temple
vs ECU
at Memphis
vs UAB
at Tulane

YEAR 2
at Toledo
vs UBuffalo
at USF
vs Temple
at ECU
vs SMU
at Tulsa
vs Navy

YEAR 3
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs Memphis
at UAB
vs Tulane
at SMU
vs Tulsa
at Navy

I think this certainly would help from a scheduling perspective. The biggest gain is the end of weeknight MACtion games. I truly believe MACtion is what killed attendance.
I really, really doubt it can be primarily blamed on weekday games. Shifting student demographics had a much larger impact. Illinois exports it's students out of state. Probably 2nd biggest export after corn, lol.


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As a season ticket holder that goes to weekend games and cannot attend the week night games, I completely disagree with you
10-04-2021 12:14 AM
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HuskieJ Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-03-2021 10:19 PM)dc1 Wrote:  Not true, it’s not even close most Illinois high school grads go to Illinois schools. I’m assuming you’re just trying to be funny

In 2002, 29.3% went out of state in 2019 it reached 50%. Anecdotally, in 2021 it has to be well above 50% now based on what I have seen with my two HS age daughters friends. On top of this fact is that there are a lot less HS age people these days in Illinois.

As of fall 2017, it’s 48.4 % of our public high school grads choosing to pick up and move.

When you add in private school grads, the number climbs above 50%, said Nyle Robinson, interim director at IBHE.

Costs related to bloated bureaucracy and pensions have been raising Illinois tuitions well beyond neighboring states, then border states went for the kill shot by eliminating out of state tuition fees. U of I takes 5,000 Chinese students and pisses a lot of families off, NIU just totally mismanaged themselves with a few horrible Presidents in a row including the current one, EIU/SIU/WIU are dying a slow death like NIU due to their locations. Someone at ISU deserves a big bonus based on well they have weathered this storm. All in all just a horrendous climate for Higher Education in Illinois.
10-04-2021 06:47 AM
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NorthCoast Away
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Post: #31
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-03-2021 02:55 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 02:49 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 01:54 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(09-04-2021 01:37 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(09-03-2021 11:38 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  AAC Football Pods
Pod A - NIU, Toledo, UBuffalo
Pod B - USF, Temple, ECU
Pod C - Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane
Pod D - SMU, Rice, Navy (Navy wants to play SMU every year, is my understanding)

In a scenario where it’s UAB instead of Rice, this is how I would see the pods shaking out.

AAC Football Pods
Pod A - NIU, Toledo, UBuffalo
Pod B - USF, Temple, ECU
Pod C - Memphis, UAB, Tulane
Pod D - SMU, Tulsa, Navy

Would this conference schedule be preferable to the current situation? (Home games in BOLD)

NIU’s 3-year Conference schedules under this (UAB) scenario.

YEAR 1
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs USF
at Temple
vs ECU
at Memphis
vs UAB
at Tulane

YEAR 2
at Toledo
vs UBuffalo
at USF
vs Temple
at ECU
vs SMU
at Tulsa
vs Navy

YEAR 3
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs Memphis
at UAB
vs Tulane
at SMU
vs Tulsa
at Navy

I think this certainly would help from a scheduling perspective. The biggest gain is the end of weeknight MACtion games. I truly believe MACtion is what killed attendance.
Anybody else?

How would the change in conference schedule listed above sit with everyone? Does it excite more than the current slate of games?
10-04-2021 07:38 AM
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Big Red Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-04-2021 07:38 AM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 02:55 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 02:49 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 01:54 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(09-04-2021 01:37 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  In a scenario where it’s UAB instead of Rice, this is how I would see the pods shaking out.

AAC Football Pods
Pod A - NIU, Toledo, UBuffalo
Pod B - USF, Temple, ECU
Pod C - Memphis, UAB, Tulane
Pod D - SMU, Tulsa, Navy

Would this conference schedule be preferable to the current situation? (Home games in BOLD)

NIU’s 3-year Conference schedules under this (UAB) scenario.

YEAR 1
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs USF
at Temple
vs ECU
at Memphis
vs UAB
at Tulane

YEAR 2
at Toledo
vs UBuffalo
at USF
vs Temple
at ECU
vs SMU
at Tulsa
vs Navy

YEAR 3
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs Memphis
at UAB
vs Tulane
at SMU
vs Tulsa
at Navy

I think this certainly would help from a scheduling perspective. The biggest gain is the end of weeknight MACtion games. I truly believe MACtion is what killed attendance.
Anybody else?

How would the change in conference schedule listed above sit with everyone? Does it excite more than the current slate of games?

Ok...

I mean, yeah, I'd rather play teams like Memphis, SMU, UAB and the likes but I don't see that as even remotely a possibility so its hard for me to get on board with being excited or really having an opinion at all about this.

If there's going to be new teams, I don't see how it's not a bunch (or 2) of FCS schools coming into the fold as opposed to AAC teams (and UAB) searching for a home (and probably a way out as soon as one comes).
10-04-2021 07:45 AM
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NorthCoast Away
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Post: #33
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-04-2021 07:45 AM)Big Red Wrote:  
(10-04-2021 07:38 AM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 02:55 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 02:49 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 01:54 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  

Would this conference schedule be preferable to the current situation? (Home games in BOLD)

NIU’s 3-year Conference schedules under this (UAB) scenario.

YEAR 1
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs USF
at Temple
vs ECU
at Memphis
vs UAB
at Tulane

YEAR 2
at Toledo
vs UBuffalo
at USF
vs Temple
at ECU
vs SMU
at Tulsa
vs Navy

YEAR 3
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs Memphis
at UAB
vs Tulane
at SMU
vs Tulsa
at Navy

I think this certainly would help from a scheduling perspective. The biggest gain is the end of weeknight MACtion games. I truly believe MACtion is what killed attendance.
Anybody else?

How would the change in conference schedule listed above sit with everyone? Does it excite more than the current slate of games?

Ok...

I mean, yeah, I'd rather play teams like Memphis, SMU, UAB and the likes but I don't see that as even remotely a possibility so its hard for me to get on board with being excited or really having an opinion at all about this.

If there's going to be new teams, I don't see how it's not a bunch (or 2) of FCS schools coming into the fold as opposed to AAC teams (and UAB) searching for a home (and probably a way out as soon as one comes).

The scenario being explored (or speculated about) is NIU, Toledo, and UBuffalo being added to the AAC not teams being added to the MAC.
10-04-2021 07:53 AM
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Big Red Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-04-2021 07:53 AM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(10-04-2021 07:45 AM)Big Red Wrote:  
(10-04-2021 07:38 AM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 02:55 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 02:49 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  Would this conference schedule be preferable to the current situation? (Home games in BOLD)

NIU’s 3-year Conference schedules under this (UAB) scenario.

YEAR 1
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs USF
at Temple
vs ECU
at Memphis
vs UAB
at Tulane

YEAR 2
at Toledo
vs UBuffalo
at USF
vs Temple
at ECU
vs SMU
at Tulsa
vs Navy

YEAR 3
vs Toledo
at UBuffalo
vs Memphis
at UAB
vs Tulane
at SMU
vs Tulsa
at Navy

I think this certainly would help from a scheduling perspective. The biggest gain is the end of weeknight MACtion games. I truly believe MACtion is what killed attendance.
Anybody else?

How would the change in conference schedule listed above sit with everyone? Does it excite more than the current slate of games?

Ok...

I mean, yeah, I'd rather play teams like Memphis, SMU, UAB and the likes but I don't see that as even remotely a possibility so its hard for me to get on board with being excited or really having an opinion at all about this.

If there's going to be new teams, I don't see how it's not a bunch (or 2) of FCS schools coming into the fold as opposed to AAC teams (and UAB) searching for a home (and probably a way out as soon as one comes).

The scenario being explored (or speculated about) is NIU, Toledo, and UBuffalo being added to the AAC not teams being added to the MAC.

My bad.

Either way, likely as possible in my opinion.
10-04-2021 07:56 AM
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NIUfilmmaker Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-03-2021 10:19 PM)dc1 Wrote:  Not true, it’s not even close most Illinois high school grads go to Illinois schools. I’m assuming you’re just trying to be funny

Illinois is top 3 in US states that lose their own high school students to other states' colleges each year. Plenty of articles out there. Started to get really bad several years back when everyone realized the state "leadership" (thanks Madigan/IL Dems) mismanaged our $ and pension promises, and Illinois started missing major payments to NIU and the other Illinois schools. "Which Illinois school are you going to" was a real question for my friends when I was in high school, now surrounding states have amazing recruiting and financial incentive programs to pull our H.S. grads away after graduation, they all know Illinois kids are disloyal bulk low hanging fruit, need to change the local culture and opinion ASAP.

one example: https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-...ince-2000/
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2021 11:59 AM by NIUfilmmaker.)
10-05-2021 11:49 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-05-2021 11:49 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 10:19 PM)dc1 Wrote:  Not true, it’s not even close most Illinois high school grads go to Illinois schools. I’m assuming you’re just trying to be funny

Illinois is top 3 in US states that lose their own high school students to other states' colleges each year. Plenty of articles out there. Started to get really bad several years back when everyone realized the state "leadership" (thanks Madigan/IL Dems) mismanaged our $ and pension promises, and Illinois started missing major payments to NIU and the other Illinois schools. "Which Illinois school are you going to" was a real question for my friends when I was in high school, now surrounding states have amazing recruiting and financial incentive programs to pull our H.S. grads away after graduation, they all know Illinois kids are disloyal bulk low hanging fruit, need to change the local culture and opinion ASAP.

one example: https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-...ince-2000/

When we no longer had a budget, that's when NIU and other schools stopped getting money, were inevitably more expensive, and thus students went elsewhere. Thanks Republicans.
10-05-2021 12:08 PM
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HuskieJ Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-05-2021 12:08 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(10-05-2021 11:49 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 10:19 PM)dc1 Wrote:  Not true, it’s not even close most Illinois high school grads go to Illinois schools. I’m assuming you’re just trying to be funny

Illinois is top 3 in US states that lose their own high school students to other states' colleges each year. Plenty of articles out there. Started to get really bad several years back when everyone realized the state "leadership" (thanks Madigan/IL Dems) mismanaged our $ and pension promises, and Illinois started missing major payments to NIU and the other Illinois schools. "Which Illinois school are you going to" was a real question for my friends when I was in high school, now surrounding states have amazing recruiting and financial incentive programs to pull our H.S. grads away after graduation, they all know Illinois kids are disloyal bulk low hanging fruit, need to change the local culture and opinion ASAP.

one example: https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-...ince-2000/

When we no longer had a budget, that's when NIU and other schools stopped getting money, were inevitably more expensive, and thus students went elsewhere. Thanks Republicans.
That is a great talking point, but not very true. They exodus out of Illinois started much earlier than the Budget Impasse. Bloated pensions and administrative
costs are what has been killing Illinois colleges not a short term period
where Illinois did not have a Budget. It is not a political issue, it is total mismanagement issue at the core. If you look at tuition increases, they did not go up at any greater rate during the budget impasse than in the past time periods either. Tuitions have just steadily gone up the past 25 years relative to neighboring states that manage cost better.
10-05-2021 12:51 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-05-2021 12:51 PM)HuskieJ Wrote:  
(10-05-2021 12:08 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(10-05-2021 11:49 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 10:19 PM)dc1 Wrote:  Not true, it’s not even close most Illinois high school grads go to Illinois schools. I’m assuming you’re just trying to be funny

Illinois is top 3 in US states that lose their own high school students to other states' colleges each year. Plenty of articles out there. Started to get really bad several years back when everyone realized the state "leadership" (thanks Madigan/IL Dems) mismanaged our $ and pension promises, and Illinois started missing major payments to NIU and the other Illinois schools. "Which Illinois school are you going to" was a real question for my friends when I was in high school, now surrounding states have amazing recruiting and financial incentive programs to pull our H.S. grads away after graduation, they all know Illinois kids are disloyal bulk low hanging fruit, need to change the local culture and opinion ASAP.

one example: https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-...ince-2000/

When we no longer had a budget, that's when NIU and other schools stopped getting money, were inevitably more expensive, and thus students went elsewhere. Thanks Republicans.
That is a great talking point, but not very true. They exodus out of Illinois started much earlier than the Budget Impasse. Bloated pensions and administrative
costs are what has been killing Illinois colleges not a short term period
where Illinois did not have a Budget. It is not a political issue, it is total mismanagement issue at the core. If you look at tuition increases, they did not go up at any greater rate during the budget impasse than in the past time periods either. Tuitions have just steadily gone up the past 25 years relative to neighboring states that manage cost better.

Why didn't enrollment start dropping 25 years ago? The biggest decreases were in 2016-2018.
10-05-2021 01:16 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
(10-05-2021 11:49 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 10:19 PM)dc1 Wrote:  Not true, it’s not even close most Illinois high school grads go to Illinois schools. I’m assuming you’re just trying to be funny

Illinois is top 3 in US states that lose their own high school students to other states' colleges each year. Plenty of articles out there. Started to get really bad several years back when everyone realized the state "leadership" (thanks Madigan/IL Dems) mismanaged our $ and pension promises, and Illinois started missing major payments to NIU and the other Illinois schools. "Which Illinois school are you going to" was a real question for my friends when I was in high school, now surrounding states have amazing recruiting and financial incentive programs to pull our H.S. grads away after graduation, they all know Illinois kids are disloyal bulk low hanging fruit, need to change the local culture and opinion ASAP.

one example: https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-...ince-2000/

I've heard this too, speaking to members of our administration. All of the surrounding states: IA, IN, WI, MN were offering instate tuition to Illinois' students. It's a challenge, go to NIU or go to U if Iowa for the same price? The really rocked us bad. Pair that with no incoming state funds and lack of capital improvements, it got really hard for us and other state schools to compete against surrounding states. I remember just a few years ago, NIU was holding off on maintenance unless absolutely necessary, with how bad the budget is or was.
10-05-2021 01:55 PM
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Skinut Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Sagarin Ratings for G5 Conferences
Illinois Policy Institute are a bunch of ideological hacks who have failed at government and have been reduced to spinning out illegitimate "policy briefs." That's not to say your underlying supposition doesn't have merit, I just would caution against using IPI to buttress it as they are a very biased source.
10-05-2021 02:40 PM
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