(08-17-2021 11:02 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I do think there is a very slim chance they could maintain P5 status. They have to add enough schools that appear strong.
Right now Houston and UCF have Access bowl wins. That added to the Big 12 begins to paint a different picture. Maybe they grab Cinci and BYU too, who both nationally are perceived as strong teams.

When you look at the Leftover 8 with at least those four, then you honestly get similar performance to the PAC12.

With the Big 10, PAC 12 and ACC doing their thing together, it’s gonna leave the SEC a bot vulnerable. It could benefit them to continue to support the new Big 12 and make some level of a an agreement with them.
It won’t be as powerful, but it could be enough to stop the SEC from getting steamrolled… not to mention that the SEC wants Texas and OU earlier than 2025, so they may be willing to make confessions.

Again, not saying this will happen, but there are angles to be played. I truly believe a rebuilt Big 12 with the best pieces available (4-6 teams) could result in a PAC 12 level conference.

If they act quick, they could have 3 seasons of football to prove it.

I think the Big8+4 would be every bit as good a conference as the Big East was in 2010---back when the Big East was still considered a power conference. That doesnt mean it will be considered a power conference in the current environment---but there is some precedent for it to remain a low level power conference (however unlikely it might seem right now).

(08-17-2021 10:03 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  I honestly don't see the AAC losing 4 schools. Probably one school if the L8 goes to 10, possibly 3 if they go to 12.

I agree, that the AAC will lose even less than that if the Leftover 8 takes BYU, Boise St, and Air Force, which I think is their best play, and much more likely than merging with the AAC.

*** SMUstang ***

(08-17-2021 12:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-17-2021 11:02 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I do think there is a very slim chance they could maintain P5 status. They have to add enough schools that appear strong.
Right now Houston and UCF have Access bowl wins. That added to the Big 12 begins to paint a different picture. Maybe they grab Cinci and BYU too, who both nationally are perceived as strong teams.

When you look at the Leftover 8 with at least those four, then you honestly get similar performance to the PAC12.

With the Big 10, PAC 12 and ACC doing their thing together, it’s gonna leave the SEC a bot vulnerable. It could benefit them to continue to support the new Big 12 and make some level of a an agreement with them.
It won’t be as powerful, but it could be enough to stop the SEC from getting steamrolled… not to mention that the SEC wants Texas and OU earlier than 2025, so they may be willing to make confessions.

Again, not saying this will happen, but there are angles to be played. I truly believe a rebuilt Big 12 with the best pieces available (4-6 teams) could result in a PAC 12 level conference.

If they act quick, they could have 3 seasons of football to prove it.

I think the Big8+4 would be every bit as good a conference as the Big East was in 2010---back when the Big East was still considered a power conference. That doesnt mean it will be considered a power conference in the current environment---but there is some precedent for it to remain a low level power conference (however unlikely it might seem right now).

If you count total number of BCS/Access bowl wins, top 25 finals and strength in other sports, then I think its undeniable that its at least as strong as the old Big East but I honestly think its every bit as strong as the current Pac 12.
Hell, take out Clemsons recent run and the performance numbers would be very similar to the ACC.

The Big 10, ACC and Pac 12 are going to gang up and to stop the SEC. 14, 15 and 12 teams for a total of 41 total member schools. The SEC will have 16. Its now in the SECs best interest to have a fifth conference to try to even that out a bit.

This is a huge power play and I am not certain how this plays out. All I know is the SEC is about to get railroaded and they need allies. The teams they crapped on before are now much more valuable to them.

This is gonna get interesting.

If anyone has basic math skills you'd know that 2 years is maximum time for AAC members in the BIG XII.

27 months waiting period.

(08-17-2021 01:46 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(08-17-2021 12:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-17-2021 11:02 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I do think there is a very slim chance they could maintain P5 status. They have to add enough schools that appear strong.
Right now Houston and UCF have Access bowl wins. That added to the Big 12 begins to paint a different picture. Maybe they grab Cinci and BYU too, who both nationally are perceived as strong teams.

When you look at the Leftover 8 with at least those four, then you honestly get similar performance to the PAC12.

With the Big 10, PAC 12 and ACC doing their thing together, it’s gonna leave the SEC a bot vulnerable. It could benefit them to continue to support the new Big 12 and make some level of a an agreement with them.
It won’t be as powerful, but it could be enough to stop the SEC from getting steamrolled… not to mention that the SEC wants Texas and OU earlier than 2025, so they may be willing to make confessions.

Again, not saying this will happen, but there are angles to be played. I truly believe a rebuilt Big 12 with the best pieces available (4-6 teams) could result in a PAC 12 level conference.

If they act quick, they could have 3 seasons of football to prove it.

I think the Big8+4 would be every bit as good a conference as the Big East was in 2010---back when the Big East was still considered a power conference. That doesnt mean it will be considered a power conference in the current environment---but there is some precedent for it to remain a low level power conference (however unlikely it might seem right now).

If you count total number of BCS/Access bowl wins, top 25 finals and strength in other sports, then I think its undeniable that its at least as strong as the old Big East but I honestly think its every bit as strong as the current Pac 12.
Hell, take out Clemsons recent run and the performance numbers would be very similar to the ACC.

The Big 10, ACC and Pac 12 are going to gang up and to stop the SEC. 14, 15 and 12 teams for a total of 41 total member schools. The SEC will have 16. Its now in the SECs best interest to have a fifth conference to try to even that out a bit.

This is a huge power play and I am not certain how this plays out. All I know is the SEC is about to get railroaded and they need allies. The teams they crapped on before are now much more valuable to them.

This is gonna get interesting.

wouldn't that be a bitter pill for booby bowlsby, having to try to suck arse with the SEC, to try to keep the B12 relevant.

AAC can inherit Power status via "Hostile Takeover" of BIIG XII!

(08-17-2021 01:46 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(08-17-2021 12:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-17-2021 11:02 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I do think there is a very slim chance they could maintain P5 status. They have to add enough schools that appear strong.
Right now Houston and UCF have Access bowl wins. That added to the Big 12 begins to paint a different picture. Maybe they grab Cinci and BYU too, who both nationally are perceived as strong teams.

When you look at the Leftover 8 with at least those four, then you honestly get similar performance to the PAC12.

With the Big 10, PAC 12 and ACC doing their thing together, it’s gonna leave the SEC a bot vulnerable. It could benefit them to continue to support the new Big 12 and make some level of a an agreement with them.
It won’t be as powerful, but it could be enough to stop the SEC from getting steamrolled… not to mention that the SEC wants Texas and OU earlier than 2025, so they may be willing to make confessions.

Again, not saying this will happen, but there are angles to be played. I truly believe a rebuilt Big 12 with the best pieces available (4-6 teams) could result in a PAC 12 level conference.

If they act quick, they could have 3 seasons of football to prove it.

I think the Big8+4 would be every bit as good a conference as the Big East was in 2010---back when the Big East was still considered a power conference. That doesnt mean it will be considered a power conference in the current environment---but there is some precedent for it to remain a low level power conference (however unlikely it might seem right now).

If you count total number of BCS/Access bowl wins, top 25 finals and strength in other sports, then I think its undeniable that its at least as strong as the old Big East but I honestly think its every bit as strong as the current Pac 12.
Hell, take out Clemsons recent run and the performance numbers would be very similar to the ACC.

The Big 10, ACC and Pac 12 are going to gang up and to stop the SEC. 14, 15 and 12 teams for a total of 41 total member schools. The SEC will have 16. Its now in the SECs best interest to have a fifth conference to try to even that out a bit.

This is a huge power play and I am not certain how this plays out. All I know is the SEC is about to get railroaded and they need allies. The teams they crapped on before are now much more valuable to them.

This is gonna get interesting.

Why are you leaving out the G4? There one major issue of which I'm sure they'd with the SEC.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

(08-17-2021 11:02 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I do think there is a very slim chance they could maintain P5 status. They have to add enough schools that appear strong.
Right now Houston and UCF have Access bowl wins. That added to the Big 12 begins to paint a different picture. Maybe they grab Cinci and BYU too, who both nationally are perceived as strong teams.

When you look at the Leftover 8 with at least those four, then you honestly get similar performance to the PAC12.

With the Big 10, PAC 12 and ACC doing their thing together, it’s gonna leave the SEC a bot vulnerable. It could benefit them to continue to support the new Big 12 and make some level of a an agreement with them.
It won’t be as powerful, but it could be enough to stop the SEC from getting steamrolled… not to mention that the SEC wants Texas and OU earlier than 2025, so they may be willing to make confessions.

Again, not saying this will happen, but there are angles to be played. I truly believe a rebuilt Big 12 with the best pieces available (4-6 teams) could result in a PAC 12 level conference.

If they act quick, they could have 3 seasons of football to prove it.

I think you’re right on a lot of levels. Top to bottom, that B12 is better than the PAC. It lacks a heavy hitter though. PAC has USC and to a lesser extent, Oregon and Washington (Stanford?). No school in the new B12 can hang with the top.

That’s what separates the power conferences from us right now in terms of programs.

The "Power" in P5 doesn't have anything to do with power as measured on the field or court. It's all about political power, a country club essentially. Adding Boise, BYU, UCF, Cincy, whoever isn't going to keep the B12 as the P5. It doesn't matter. To the Big10, SEC, P12 and ACC those programs are bums not allowed into the country club.

^^^ Possibly but I think the exciting part of a New Big 12 would be the parity. A conference that still wins the Big bowl games but it’s not dominated by one team. I think a top to bottom solid conference nce that truly battles it out would be more interesting than wondering who’s finishing second to Bama most years.

(08-18-2021 08:44 AM)b2b Wrote:  The "Power" in P5 doesn't have anything to do with power as measured on the field or court. It's all about political power, a country club essentially. Adding Boise, BYU, UCF, Cincy, whoever isn't going to keep the B12 as the P5. It doesn't matter. To the Big10, SEC, P12 and ACC those programs are bums not allowed into the country club.

This would be good for the Big 12 but it is hardly a merger with the AAC.

*** SMUstang ***

(08-18-2021 08:45 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  ^^^ Possibly but I think the exciting part of a New Big 12 would be the parity. A conference that still wins the Big bowl games but it’s not dominated by one team. I think a top to bottom solid conference nce that truly battles it out would be more interesting than wondering who’s finishing second to Bama most years.

It would be interesting to see how things shake out with that kind of Big12 conference. I always felt like the AAC needed to hit an average attendance mark of around 40k to be taken seriously as a power conference by the networks, bowls, and power conferences. To hit a 40K average—the AAC would need 2 or 3 programs to be near 60K, and several more in the low 50’s to mid-40’s. That’s basically what the Big8 with 4 of the top AAC programs would look like. It’s been my belief that a level of attendance in that range would signify to networks and major bowls that the AAC was simply too popular to ignore. Thus, it would become a media property that networks felt they needed to have and would push for it to have an annual place as a key part of the post season.

The way a rebuilt Big8 gets treated will be somewhat of a test case for that attendance threshold theory.

(08-18-2021 10:12 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 08:45 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  ^^^ Possibly but I think the exciting part of a New Big 12 would be the parity. A conference that still wins the Big bowl games but it’s not dominated by one team. I think a top to bottom solid conference nce that truly battles it out would be more interesting than wondering who’s finishing second to Bama most years.

It would be interesting to see how things shake out with that kind of Big12 conference. I always felt like the AAC needed to hit an average attendance mark of around 40k to be taken seriously as a power conference by the networks, bowls, and power conferences. To hit a 40K average—the AAC would need 2 or 3 programs to be near 60K, and several more in the low 50’s to mid-40’s. That’s basically what the Big8 with 4 of the top AAC programs would look like. It’s been my belief that a level of attendance in that range would signify to networks and major bowls that the AAC was simply too popular to ignore. Thus, it would become a media property that networks felt they needed to have and would push for it to have an annual place as a key part of the post season.

The way a rebuilt Big8 gets treated will be somewhat of a test case for that attendance threshold theory.

Agreed. USF used to average over 40K a game. Those Big East days, we really had it rocking when the right opponents were there and thats why I really hope the Big 12 rebuilds and we somehow slide in.

Cinci, USF, and Houston all were in bigger conferences before and have shown we can pull the fans. Memphis and UCF have shown they can pack the house when there is excitement. Navy hits that number regularly.
Those 6 added to those 8 I think would average over 40K and be closer to 50K.

USF can pull 65K when West Virginia shows up.... they hated us and that rivalry had some teeth. Its why I dont think a NFL stadium is the worst. Cinci when they have a huge opponent can go to their NFL stadium for huge attendance numbers. UCF can do the same if they need (if the money makes sense) Houston and Memphis too.

The best part would be 4 Texas and 2 Florida teams... thats a LOT of recruiting for everyone involved. I truly believe if that conference is formed ASAP and is given 3 years to prove itself, they can put up numbers that would be hard to deny is equal to the PAC 12.

(08-18-2021 10:12 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 08:45 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  ^^^ Possibly but I think the exciting part of a New Big 12 would be the parity. A conference that still wins the Big bowl games but it’s not dominated by one team. I think a top to bottom solid conference nce that truly battles it out would be more interesting than wondering who’s finishing second to Bama most years.

It would be interesting to see how things shake out with that kind of Big12 conference. I always felt like the AAC needed to hit an average attendance mark of around 40k to be taken seriously as a power conference by the networks, bowls, and power conferences. To hit a 40K average—the AAC would need 2 or 3 programs to be near 60K, and several more in the low 50’s to mid-40’s. That’s basically what the Big8 with 4 of the top AAC programs would look like. It’s been my belief that a level of attendance in that range would signify to networks and major bowls that the AAC was simply too popular to ignore. Thus, it would become a media property that networks felt they needed to have and would push for it to have an annual place as a key part of the post season.

The way a rebuilt Big8 gets treated will be somewhat of a test case for that attendance threshold theory.

Attendance is usually an indicator of subscriptions, which will be the new media value. Fan following elevates your program's status. AAC lags in that arena. The product is good, but the glamour is not there.

(08-18-2021 03:21 PM)Fishpro10987 Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 10:12 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 08:45 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  ^^^ Possibly but I think the exciting part of a New Big 12 would be the parity. A conference that still wins the Big bowl games but it’s not dominated by one team. I think a top to bottom solid conference nce that truly battles it out would be more interesting than wondering who’s finishing second to Bama most years.

It would be interesting to see how things shake out with that kind of Big12 conference. I always felt like the AAC needed to hit an average attendance mark of around 40k to be taken seriously as a power conference by the networks, bowls, and power conferences. To hit a 40K average—the AAC would need 2 or 3 programs to be near 60K, and several more in the low 50’s to mid-40’s. That’s basically what the Big8 with 4 of the top AAC programs would look like. It’s been my belief that a level of attendance in that range would signify to networks and major bowls that the AAC was simply too popular to ignore. Thus, it would become a media property that networks felt they needed to have and would push for it to have an annual place as a key part of the post season.

The way a rebuilt Big8 gets treated will be somewhat of a test case for that attendance threshold theory.

Attendance is usually an indicator of subscriptions, which will be the new media value. Fan following elevates your program's status. AAC lags in that arena. The product is good, but the glamour is not there.

Status - media value is all relative to success each year. Every teams following takes a hit or a bump each year relative to the Top 25 standings. I'd argue that the Top 25 is the legitimate "super conference" given that those fanbases are engaged, and they aren't reliant on living close enough to buy a paper ticket.

It's why ESPN has always promised the prime slots to the teams that were worthy of the Top 25. It doesn't matter which league those teams are in, they'll draw ratings.