(07-28-2021 08:44 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  -UCF has been a lot better recently (5 Top 25 finishes last ten years, 3 Major Bowl appearances with 2 wins)
-On campus stadium/better attendance
-Bigger enrollment

-USF does have better academics and a slightly better TV market

And the academic differences aren't that great, plus UCF is much more concentrated on its main campus while USF's system attendance is spread out more widely in the region.

(07-28-2021 09:31 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 08:44 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  -UCF has been a lot better recently (5 Top 25 finishes last ten years, 3 Major Bowl appearances with 2 wins)
-On campus stadium/better attendance
-Bigger enrollment

-USF does have better academics and a slightly better TV market

And the academic differences aren't that great, plus UCF is much more concentrated on its main campus while USF's system attendance is spread out more widely in the region.

Truthfully if I was in Big 12 leadership, I would just invite the pair of them. Both schools have massive enrollments and over the next 20-30 years their number of living alumni is going to skyrocket. They will be outliers on an island but long term it seems like a winning move.

I think they should add both. Florida recruits and sunshine!

From the athletic:

“UCF also is strongly positioned at the right time. The Knights bring fans, eyeballs and money (when they’re winning), and there have been pushes to join the Big 12 in the past. Sources noted that while USF is often paired with the Knights in these conversations, the reality is those schools aren’t on the same level for this venture. USF does not have the same size fan base nor the success on the field to move the needle as UCF could. “Market size” doesn’t matter if you’re not prevalent in that market.”

(07-28-2021 11:03 AM)BraveKnight Wrote:  From the athletic:

“UCF also is strongly positioned at the right time. The Knights bring fans, eyeballs and money (when they’re winning), and there have been pushes to join the Big 12 in the past. Sources noted that while USF is often paired with the Knights in these conversations, the reality is those schools aren’t on the same level for this venture. USF does not have the same size fan base nor the success on the field to move the needle as UCF could. “Market size” doesn’t matter if you’re not prevalent in that market.”

Sadly, we deserve that. We squandered much of what we had with bad hires and bad ADs.

USFFan

(07-28-2021 05:26 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 11:03 AM)BraveKnight Wrote:  From the athletic:

“UCF also is strongly positioned at the right time. The Knights bring fans, eyeballs and money (when they’re winning), and there have been pushes to join the Big 12 in the past. Sources noted that while USF is often paired with the Knights in these conversations, the reality is those schools aren’t on the same level for this venture. USF does not have the same size fan base nor the success on the field to move the needle as UCF could. “Market size” doesn’t matter if you’re not prevalent in that market.”

Sadly, we deserve that. We squandered much of what we had with bad hires and bad ADs.

USFFan

I am hopeful that if the Big 12 does cast its eyes on Florida that it will not evaluate UCF and USF the way this writer does.

But I admit it is a possibility, and if it happens that way, as you say, we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

This thread is a joke, right? USF does not have similar attendance to UCF. They never developed a good core fanbase because they got promoted to the Big East with no basis for that promotion other than being in Florida. They lived in a fantasyland for 7 years where a few big upset wins that were meaningless in the long-term covered up for the lack of a fanbase and no serious fundraising or investment in the program infrastructure. USF seemed like a big boy because they were being artificially propped up by their BCS status. Now they are in reality, and they do not have the infrastructure to be a successful program consistently. The may still put up a good season with an elite player like Quinton Flowers, but that is more an aberration than reflective of the true state of the program.

People show up to see whoever USF is playing, not USF. At UCF, our fans show up to see UCF. Even those massive attendance numbers for USF back in 2007-11 were significantly from the visiting teams. These days, UCF is the home team when we play in Raymond James. That has never been the case with UCF, where we draw at or above USF's best even during awful seasons. The bottom-line is that casual fans will show up to see USF when they are playing someone notable but have little interest in supporting them otherwise. The proof is in the 2/3 empty red seats at the pirate ship.

Saw this on another site:

Quote:The hard numbers since 2007 show that USF is not on UCF’s level “for this venture.”

On 10/13/07, USF beat UCF 64-12, and afterward hit the school’s high-water mark of being ranked #2.

Since then (over 13 years), USF is 82-84. It has only played in lower-tier bowls. It has finished in the top 25 twice after 2007.

UCF, since that ass-kicking, is 113-60 - and that includes a winless season. It has played in multiple NY6 bowls. It beat top-10, P5 schools Baylor and Auburn in those bowls. It has 5 top-25 finishes, including two in the top 10.

Since 2013, when both USF and UCF started playing in the AAC (and your implication is that “demotion” is what crushed the USF fanbase spirit), USF - again, playing at what you imply was a lower level to which it had been demoted - has gone 47-49 overall, 29-34 in conference. UCF has gone 68-32 overall, 46-18 in conference (and that still includes a winless season).

UCF has won 6 of the 8 games against USF since they started playing in the same conference.

USF has no on-campus stadium and is light years from getting one, and is just now building an indoor practice facility. UCF has both.

Quote:Even in 2016-17 when USF put together 10 win seasons their attendance lagged. In 2016 if you take out the game against FSU every game had 30-35k attendance. Same in 2017 the only game over 40k was against Cincinnati. So that’s the high water mark you’re working with and of course its even lower when the team isn’t good. By contrast UCF has consistently had 40-45k attendance or averaged over 95% of stadium capacity in the time they’ve been good. You can try to spin it however you want but the numbers are reality

UCF draws. USF draws…..when it plays someone interesting.

Programs go in cycles, no question. But at this moment in time, UCF clearly provides things USF simply does not. UCF, Cincy, and Memphis in particular have built and built, have invested in their programs. USF didn’t do that. In 2021, USF is not on UCF’s level if a P5 conference is looking around.