(06-19-2021 11:43 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-19-2021 10:59 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(06-19-2021 10:28 AM)fsquid Wrote:  I wonder if the pedophie priests still get to take communion? I have zero issue with what they are doing to Biden, just maybe take care of your own house first.

In other words get the log out of your eye before you worry about the splinter in mine. Yes, this also is biblical.

Nonetheless, condemning LIVING IN SIN is backed up by scripture. Maybe the messenger is the problem.

Bidens* problem is that President Trump was more of a devout catholic than Biden* is.

Yea, nope

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

About time Catholics stand up to abortion.

Dear Ted Lieu, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Joe Biden, Ted Kennedy, et all,
Based on your "list" you are all sorry excuses for Catholics.
Signed,
60 Million Dead Babies

(06-19-2021 08:35 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Dear Ted Lieu, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Joe Biden, Ted Kennedy, et all,
Based on your "list" you are all sorry excuses for Catholics.
Signed,
6 Million Dead Babies

6 million? 60,000,000 at minimum.

As to the liberal media stereotype of pedophile priests the only pedophile priest I ever knew, was defrocked (un-priested) and died ex-communicated and alone in an apartment as a non-consecrated man with a sign on his wall reading "do not resuscitate" on his wallwhen they found him. For the past few decades, the church has largely cleaned itself up quite a bit in this area--and as posted by another poster, it was the left-wing, "open-minded" priests let in mostly during the 70's and 80's that are largely responsible for the most egregious abusive behaviors.

Now, today, if you look at where the legal firms and attorneys that made hay getting settkements against the Catholic church are focusing their efforts, it is no longer on the Catholic church, but instead on public school teachers, who by far are the laregst pedophile abusers of children, and its not even close; also on groups like the modern Boys Scouts, as well as many other denominations of christian churches and lay leaders.

Follow the money--the truth is today there's a lot more security and vetting to be around children in the Catholic church (look at the background checks required in modern American Catholic churches if you don't believe me), and most of those who would be attracted to easily commit those crimes have long since left or moved to target other, far easier and lax groups, again, headed by the public school systems and "woke" groups like boys and girls scouts, where today, almost anything goes, and the children suffer from that greatly. Which is why conservative scouting groups are flourishing and in a lot of cases supplanting the leftist boys and girls scouts groups which are simply pedophile-in-training hotbeds and sponsors of disordered liberal woke nonsense that perpetuates the problems while magnifying them, codifying and condoning them evenin their organizational documents.

As another poster said: most of today's younger, modern priests and semanarians, who came to their vocations with full knowledge and open eyes to the problems that admitting liberal and woke ideas into the church created, are far more conservative, and safer both in their teachings and adherance to church doctrine as well as in their day to day actions. But the millions of good priests somehow aren't so news-worthy for all their thankless work and contributuins to helping hold society together. See: Leprosy in America and the Western wolrd, and why it doesn't it exist here. Hint: the Catholic church played a major role, ot any "woke" group of leftists. Not every priest today is great, but their are far more holy and trustworthy ones today, especially among the younger next generation, tn=han tere have been in qute a while.

(06-19-2021 11:19 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  As to the liberal media stereotype of pedophile priests the only pedophile priest I ever knew, was defrocked (un-priested) and died ex-communicated and alone in an apartment as a non-consecrated man with a sign on his wall reading "do not resuscitate" on his wallwhen they found him. For the past few decades, the church has largely cleaned itself up quite a bit in this area--and as posted by another poster, it was the left-wing, "open-minded" priests let in mostly during the 70's and 80's that are largely responsible for the most egregious abusive behaviors.

Now, today, if you look at where the legal firms and attorneys that made hay getting settkements against the Catholic church are focusing their efforts, it is no longer on the Catholic church, but instead on public school teachers, who by far are the laregst pedophile abusers of children, and its not even close; also on groups like the modern Boys Scouts, as well as many other denominations of christian churches and lay leaders.

Follow the money--the truth is today there's a lot more security and vetting to be around children in the Catholic church (look at the background checks required in modern American Catholic churches if you don't believe me), and most of those who would be attracted to easily commit those crimes have long since left or moved to target other, far easier and lax groups, again, headed by the public school systems and "woke" groups like boys and girls scouts, where today, almost anything goes, and the children suffer from that greatly. Which is why conservative scouting groups are flourishing and in a lot of cases supplanting the leftist boys and girls scouts groups which are simply pedophile-in-training hotbeds and sponsors of disordered liberal woke nonsense that perpetuates the problems while magnifying them, codifying and condoning them evenin their organizational documents.

As another poster said: most of today's younger, modern priests and semanarians, who came to their vocations with full knowledge and open eyes to the problems that admitting liberal and woke ideas into the church created, are far more conservative, and safer both in their teachings and adherance to church doctrine as well as in their day to day actions. But the millions of good priests somehow aren't so news-worthy for all their thankless work and contributuins to helping hold society together. See: Leprosy in America and the Western wolrd, and why it doesn't it exist here. Hint: the Catholic church played a major role, ot any "woke" group of leftists. Not every priest today is great, but their are far more holy and trustworthy ones today, especially among the younger next generation, tn=han tere have been in qute a while.

Great post! So how does that clown known as the POPE help these younger Bishops cause by telling folks to accept Homosexuality which goes against biblical teachings since Abraham and Lott's day? Talk about undermining the faith?

(06-19-2021 11:29 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(06-19-2021 11:19 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  As to the liberal media stereotype of pedophile priests the only pedophile priest I ever knew, was defrocked (un-priested) and died ex-communicated and alone in an apartment as a non-consecrated man with a sign on his wall reading "do not resuscitate" on his wallwhen they found him. For the past few decades, the church has largely cleaned itself up quite a bit in this area--and as posted by another poster, it was the left-wing, "open-minded" priests let in mostly during the 70's and 80's that are largely responsible for the most egregious abusive behaviors.

Now, today, if you look at where the legal firms and attorneys that made hay getting settkements against the Catholic church are focusing their efforts, it is no longer on the Catholic church, but instead on public school teachers, who by far are the laregst pedophile abusers of children, and its not even close; also on groups like the modern Boys Scouts, as well as many other denominations of christian churches and lay leaders.

Follow the money--the truth is today there's a lot more security and vetting to be around children in the Catholic church (look at the background checks required in modern American Catholic churches if you don't believe me), and most of those who would be attracted to easily commit those crimes have long since left or moved to target other, far easier and lax groups, again, headed by the public school systems and "woke" groups like boys and girls scouts, where today, almost anything goes, and the children suffer from that greatly. Which is why conservative scouting groups are flourishing and in a lot of cases supplanting the leftist boys and girls scouts groups which are simply pedophile-in-training hotbeds and sponsors of disordered liberal woke nonsense that perpetuates the problems while magnifying them, codifying and condoning them evenin their organizational documents.

As another poster said: most of today's younger, modern priests and semanarians, who came to their vocations with full knowledge and open eyes to the problems that admitting liberal and woke ideas into the church created, are far more conservative, and safer both in their teachings and adherance to church doctrine as well as in their day to day actions. But the millions of good priests somehow aren't so news-worthy for all their thankless work and contributuins to helping hold society together. See: Leprosy in America and the Western wolrd, and why it doesn't it exist here. Hint: the Catholic church played a major role, ot any "woke" group of leftists. Not every priest today is great, but their are far more holy and trustworthy ones today, especially among the younger next generation, tn=han tere have been in qute a while.

Great post! So how does that clown known as the POPE help these younger Bishops cause by telling folks to accept Homosexuality which goes against biblical teachings since Abraham and Lott's day? Talk about undermining the faith?

We just had two truly great popes in JPII and Benebict. Having a not-so-good pope (and I'm being charatible to Francis) helps to see how much better the previous two were. The Catholic church is not a militay-like hierarchy, unlike what many incorrectly think. Bishops have a lot of say in the goings on in their own dioceses. For example, Wilton gregory, a man many in Atlanta diocese were more than happy to be rid of, has continued his irresponsible leadership in DC replacing the disgraced McCarrick, kowtowing to leftist anti-Caytholic and baby killing crusader Biden* ans the anti-black abortionist crew of r=the left. All for brw=ownie points. Its disgusting, but if Judas was selected as an apostle by Jesy=us, who clearly knew what he was going to do, and Peter was selected to be the rock upon which his church on earth would be built (a coward, and a liar who three times denied he knew Jesus) then why would anyone be surprised that there are some bad bishops and some bad popes? It's in God'
s own word that there would be from time to time. But it does not negate God's plan, or undo Jesus's words, just reognizes human free will and choice againt Gid from time to time. It is up to God to judge Biden*'s faith, but it is up to the church to stand against those who publicly oppose the teachings of the faith, as St. paul wrote they should. Does not mean they can;t get to heaven, that is God's decision. But they a]=cannot follow both their own will and God's. The church has to make that clear, then it is the choice of teh individual on what they do, and God to judge it for eternity. Man merely judges as to man's ways. The church is an imperfect attempt to provide a chance for holiness to transform man but only if a man willeth ans=d thinketh. Unlike more opprressive "fiths" it does not demand they change, but it does have a responsibilty to point ut public leaders' missteps with regards to the faith when they occur and to stand against those who propogate the cat=efeteia style nonselnse of I'll ahve this but not that.

(06-20-2021 12:01 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(06-19-2021 11:29 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(06-19-2021 11:19 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  As to the liberal media stereotype of pedophile priests the only pedophile priest I ever knew, was defrocked (un-priested) and died ex-communicated and alone in an apartment as a non-consecrated man with a sign on his wall reading "do not resuscitate" on his wallwhen they found him. For the past few decades, the church has largely cleaned itself up quite a bit in this area--and as posted by another poster, it was the left-wing, "open-minded" priests let in mostly during the 70's and 80's that are largely responsible for the most egregious abusive behaviors.

Now, today, if you look at where the legal firms and attorneys that made hay getting settkements against the Catholic church are focusing their efforts, it is no longer on the Catholic church, but instead on public school teachers, who by far are the laregst pedophile abusers of children, and its not even close; also on groups like the modern Boys Scouts, as well as many other denominations of christian churches and lay leaders.

Follow the money--the truth is today there's a lot more security and vetting to be around children in the Catholic church (look at the background checks required in modern American Catholic churches if you don't believe me), and most of those who would be attracted to easily commit those crimes have long since left or moved to target other, far easier and lax groups, again, headed by the public school systems and "woke" groups like boys and girls scouts, where today, almost anything goes, and the children suffer from that greatly. Which is why conservative scouting groups are flourishing and in a lot of cases supplanting the leftist boys and girls scouts groups which are simply pedophile-in-training hotbeds and sponsors of disordered liberal woke nonsense that perpetuates the problems while magnifying them, codifying and condoning them evenin their organizational documents.

As another poster said: most of today's younger, modern priests and semanarians, who came to their vocations with full knowledge and open eyes to the problems that admitting liberal and woke ideas into the church created, are far more conservative, and safer both in their teachings and adherance to church doctrine as well as in their day to day actions. But the millions of good priests somehow aren't so news-worthy for all their thankless work and contributuins to helping hold society together. See: Leprosy in America and the Western wolrd, and why it doesn't it exist here. Hint: the Catholic church played a major role, ot any "woke" group of leftists. Not every priest today is great, but their are far more holy and trustworthy ones today, especially among the younger next generation, tn=han tere have been in qute a while.

Great post! So how does that clown known as the POPE help these younger Bishops cause by telling folks to accept Homosexuality which goes against biblical teachings since Abraham and Lott's day? Talk about undermining the faith?

We just had two truly great popes in JPII and Benebict. Having a not-so-good pope (and I'm being charatible to Francis) helps to see how much better the previous two were. The Catholic church is not a militay-like hierarchy, unlike what many incorrectly think. Bishops have a lot of say in the goings on in their own dioceses. For example, Wilton gregory, a man many in Atlanta diocese were more than happy to be rid of, has continued his irresponsible leadership in DC replacing the disgraced McCarrick, kowtowing to leftist anti-Caytholic and baby killing crusader Biden* ans the anti-black abortionist crew of r=the left. All for brw=ownie points. Its disgusting, but if Judas was selected as an apostle by Jesy=us, who clearly knew what he was going to do, and Peter was selected to be the rock upon which his church on earth would be built (a coward, and a liar who three times denied he knew Jesus) then why would anyone be surprised that there are some bad bishops and some bad popes? It's in God'
s own word that there would be from time to time. But it does not negate God's plan, or undo Jesus's words, just reognizes human free will and choice againt Gid from time to time. It is up to God to judge Biden*'s faith, but it is up to the church to stand against those who publicly oppose the teachings of the faith, as St. paul wrote they should. Does not mean they can;t get to heaven, that is God's decision. But they a]=cannot follow both their own will and God's. The church has to make that clear, then it is the choice of teh individual on what they do, and God to judge it for eternity. Man merely judges as to man's ways. The church is an imperfect attempt to provide a chance for holiness to transform man but only if a man willeth ans=d thinketh. Unlike more opprressive "fiths" it does not demand they change, but it does have a responsibilty to point ut public leaders' missteps with regards to the faith when they occur and to stand against those who propogate the cat=efeteia style nonselnse of I'll ahve this but not that.

You are on solid ground for sure. Yes, we all fall short of the glory of God. The fact that your eyes are open to those transgressors regardless of their public stature when it comes to biblical teachings definitely lends you credibility as a true believer and not someone who wears rose colored glasses and makes excuses for his own while blasting other’s shortcomings.

(06-18-2021 07:19 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Oh nooooooo, if he can't take the Eucharist, he ain't going to heaven. Tsk tsk.

LOL, according to the church anyway. That's what kept the royalty in the olden times in line.

I'm 65 and born catholic and attended catholic schools. Never heard the nonsense in your first sentence. Never.

(06-19-2021 10:28 AM)fsquid Wrote:  I wonder if the pedophie priests still get to take communion? I have zero issue with what they are doing to Biden, just maybe take care of your own house first.

What percentage of priest do you think are pedophiles?

(06-20-2021 07:28 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(06-19-2021 10:28 AM)fsquid Wrote:  I wonder if the pedophie priests still get to take communion? I have zero issue with what they are doing to Biden, just maybe take care of your own house first.

What percentage of priest do you think are pedophiles?

I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question. The bigger question in my mind is why the Catholic Church wants Priests to be celibate. Nowhere have I ever read in scripture that this is a requirement. Even the Levites who were of the Priestly order had wives. Furthermore in Jewish law unless you were married you weren’t allowed to be a teacher. I actually know the real reason and it nothing to do with religion but I just th out I’d throw it out there.

(06-20-2021 08:42 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 07:28 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(06-19-2021 10:28 AM)fsquid Wrote:  I wonder if the pedophie priests still get to take communion? I have zero issue with what they are doing to Biden, just maybe take care of your own house first.

What percentage of priest do you think are pedophiles?

I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question. The bigger question in my mind is why the Catholic Church wants Priests to be celibate. Nowhere have I ever read in scripture that this is a requirement. Even the Levites who were of the Priestly order had wives. Furthermore in Jewish law unless you were married you weren’t allowed to be a teacher. I actually know the real reason and it nothing to do with religion but I just th out I’d throw it out there.

As a lifelong Catholic my understanding for the rationale behind unmarried priests is three fold, and more practical than biblical:

Divided Loyalties: If they had their own families their loyalty and time is divided. The Parish is supposed to be their family.

Support: It is the financial responsibility of a parish to support a pastor (and depending on parish size) asst and associate priests. If they are married and have families the financial costs to a parish increase proportionally.

Inheritance: If priests have families then there could be claims to Church property and thus inheritance issues.

(06-20-2021 10:22 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 08:42 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 07:28 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(06-19-2021 10:28 AM)fsquid Wrote:  I wonder if the pedophie priests still get to take communion? I have zero issue with what they are doing to Biden, just maybe take care of your own house first.

What percentage of priest do you think are pedophiles?

I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question. The bigger question in my mind is why the Catholic Church wants Priests to be celibate. Nowhere have I ever read in scripture that this is a requirement. Even the Levites who were of the Priestly order had wives. Furthermore in Jewish law unless you were married you weren’t allowed to be a teacher. I actually know the real reason and it nothing to do with religion but I just th out I’d throw it out there.

As a lifelong Catholic my understanding for the rationale behind unmarried priests is three fold, and more practical than biblical:

Divided Loyalties: If they had their own families their loyalty and time is divided. The Parish is supposed to be their family.

Support: It is the financial responsibility of a parish to support a pastor (and depending on parish size) asst and associate priests. If they are married and have families the financial costs to a parish increase proportionally.

Inheritance: If priests have families then there could be claims to Church property and thus inheritance issues.

It’s too a living example of Christ’s life.
There are similar abuses in other denominations… as is currently being played out in the Southern Baptist Convention, but the centralized nature of Catholicism makes it a larger, easier target.

(06-20-2021 10:22 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 08:42 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 07:28 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(06-19-2021 10:28 AM)fsquid Wrote:  I wonder if the pedophie priests still get to take communion? I have zero issue with what they are doing to Biden, just maybe take care of your own house first.

What percentage of priest do you think are pedophiles?

I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question. The bigger question in my mind is why the Catholic Church wants Priests to be celibate. Nowhere have I ever read in scripture that this is a requirement. Even the Levites who were of the Priestly order had wives. Furthermore in Jewish law unless you were married you weren’t allowed to be a teacher. I actually know the real reason and it nothing to do with religion but I just th out I’d throw it out there.

As a lifelong Catholic my understanding for the rationale behind unmarried priests is three fold, and more practical than biblical:

Divided Loyalties: If they had their own families their loyalty and time is divided. The Parish is supposed to be their family.

Support: It is the financial responsibility of a parish to support a pastor (and depending on parish size) asst and associate priests. If they are married and have families the financial costs to a parish increase proportionally.

Inheritance: If priests have families then there could be claims to Church property and thus inheritance issues.

Ding ding ding winner winner chicken dinner. Goes back to the Middle Ages when the Church actually did have to split up property between the family of the Priest and the Church. Church decided it wanted to keep the money instead.

Although I like your other answers as well. But as with everything else it always goes back to money and wealth.

(06-20-2021 12:42 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 10:22 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 08:42 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 07:28 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(06-19-2021 10:28 AM)fsquid Wrote:  I wonder if the pedophie priests still get to take communion? I have zero issue with what they are doing to Biden, just maybe take care of your own house first.

What percentage of priest do you think are pedophiles?

I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question. The bigger question in my mind is why the Catholic Church wants Priests to be celibate. Nowhere have I ever read in scripture that this is a requirement. Even the Levites who were of the Priestly order had wives. Furthermore in Jewish law unless you were married you weren’t allowed to be a teacher. I actually know the real reason and it nothing to do with religion but I just th out I’d throw it out there.

As a lifelong Catholic my understanding for the rationale behind unmarried priests is three fold, and more practical than biblical:

Divided Loyalties: If they had their own families their loyalty and time is divided. The Parish is supposed to be their family.

Support: It is the financial responsibility of a parish to support a pastor (and depending on parish size) asst and associate priests. If they are married and have families the financial costs to a parish increase proportionally.

Inheritance: If priests have families then there could be claims to Church property and thus inheritance issues.

Ding ding ding winner winner chicken dinner. Goes back to the Middle Ages when the Church actually did have to split up property between the family of the Priest and the Church. Church decided it wanted to keep the money instead.

Although I like your other answers as well. But as with everything else it always goes back to money and wealth.

Well, since the Bible clearly says it is impossible for someone to serve both God and mammon, then by taking mammon out of the equation, the church is doing what God says to do, and helping the priests in the process, which is a good thing, at least if you believe in the Bible. Those ministers who are married then logically would be going against God's word, by having their loyalties divided. So theose closest to the ideal stated in the Bible would then be celibate, unmarried, and serving God's church alone.

As Christ constantly referred to himslef as the Bridegroom, he also referred to and inidcated the Church was his bride, so to have more than one bride would be polygamous, which Christ clearly did not advocate for, but did advocate against. So to be a married Chritian minister would in the way described by jesusu himself in the Bible, be polygamous. Of course, some faiths that claim to be christian don't seem to have a problem with polygamy, but then they are not really christian in the first place as they contradict Christ's own directives.

Speaking of Chirts' own directives, quoted in every christian Bible, Jesus instructed his disciples to "go out and teach everything I have taught you." He did not ever say, to go out and have them read my book. He instructed the apostles to deliver the tradition of instruction and teaching to the world, and that whatever those men bound on earth would also be bound in heaven. Therefore, Jesus gave the apostles and their successors, the church leaders, the authority to make future decisions and address future issues with the authority of God. The root of the church's authority, then, comes from Christ himslef, not from some other man who might think he knows better than Jesus. Jesus said what he said and meant what he meant. And Jesus was faithful to death...100 per cent!

(06-20-2021 08:37 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 12:42 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 10:22 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 08:42 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(06-20-2021 07:28 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  What percentage of priest do you think are pedophiles?

I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question. The bigger question in my mind is why the Catholic Church wants Priests to be celibate. Nowhere have I ever read in scripture that this is a requirement. Even the Levites who were of the Priestly order had wives. Furthermore in Jewish law unless you were married you weren’t allowed to be a teacher. I actually know the real reason and it nothing to do with religion but I just th out I’d throw it out there.

As a lifelong Catholic my understanding for the rationale behind unmarried priests is three fold, and more practical than biblical:

Divided Loyalties: If they had their own families their loyalty and time is divided. The Parish is supposed to be their family.

Support: It is the financial responsibility of a parish to support a pastor (and depending on parish size) asst and associate priests. If they are married and have families the financial costs to a parish increase proportionally.

Inheritance: If priests have families then there could be claims to Church property and thus inheritance issues.

Ding ding ding winner winner chicken dinner. Goes back to the Middle Ages when the Church actually did have to split up property between the family of the Priest and the Church. Church decided it wanted to keep the money instead.

Although I like your other answers as well. But as with everything else it always goes back to money and wealth.

Well, since the Bible clearly says it is impossible for someone to serve both God and mammon, then by taking mammon out of the equation, the church is doing what God says to do, and helping the priests in the process, which is a good thing, at least if you believe in the Bible. Those ministers who are married then logically would be going against God's word, by having their loyalties divided. So theose closest to the ideal stated in the Bible would then be celibate, unmarried, and serving God's church alone.

As Christ constantly referred to himslef as the Bridegroom, he also referred to and inidcated the Church was his bride, so to have more than one bride would be polygamous, which Christ clearly did not advocate for, but did advocate against. So to be a married Chritian minister would in the way described by jesusu himself in the Bible, be polygamous. Of course, some faiths that claim to be christian don't seem to have a problem with polygamy, but then they are not really christian in the first place as they contradict Christ's own directives.

Speaking of Chirts' own directives, quoted in every christian Bible, Jesus instructed his disciples to "go out and teach everything I have taught you." He did not ever say, to go out and have them read my book. He instructed the apostles to deliver the tradition of instruction and teaching to the world, and that whatever those men bound on earth would also be bound in heaven. Therefore, Jesus gave the apostles and their successors, the church leaders, the authority to make future decisions and address future issues with the authority of God. The root of the church's authority, then, comes from Christ himslef, not from some other man who might think he knows better than Jesus. Jesus said what he said and meant what he meant. And Jesus was faithful to death...100 per cent!

1st Timothy 3 explains that a man must be faithful to one wife and have done well with his children to be considered for the office of Bishop or Elder. Among other things mentioned.

I don’t necessarily agree with celibacy in any human because there is war going on between the flesh and the spirit. Galatians 5. At least your arguments are well described. And I can see how you got to your answer.

I have to go back to a sermon I heard years ago by a man who very knowledgeable about the word. He explained to a college crowd why Homosexuals were missing what God intended in a manner I’d never heard. He explained how the Greeks have 4 meanings for love. We all know the Greek Lexicon is probably the earliest forms of the Bible and sometimes the meaning from Greek to English just doesn’t work properly. He explained there is friendship love, parental love, sexual love and unconditional love as in God or your child. If you choose Homosexuality you will never experience the fullness of love God intended. I also believe this applies to anyone leading a life of celibacy ( ie not marrying because they want to ) not just Priests.

(06-19-2021 09:06 AM)EKUSteve Wrote:  

(06-19-2021 08:19 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  It’s about time….
How long has it taken Catholics to do this.
Why now?

Every Democrat President since Carter has supported and sanctioned the killing of our unborn yet the Vatican and American Bishops want to rebuke Biden? I realize Biden is probably (not sure) the only Catholic since Kennedy but this doesn’t pass the sniff test.

Something stinks with this

Biden is the first president that is Catholic since Kennedy. He has been very public about his abortion stance as has Pelosi, who is also Catholic. Pelosi even tried to claim that the Bible says abortion is ok.

The headline is sensationalized, but nothing new in today's media. Bottom line is that support for abortion is considered a mortal sin by the Church and you are not supposed to receive communion in a state of mortal sin.

Also, the younger clergy that are now becoming Bishops are more conservative. The prior group, many of those who also hid the child abuse scandal, were the ones to let this slide.

Saying you are catholic is like saying you are against racism. Its lost all its value, it means nothing and most people alive qualify.

MADONNA claimed she was Catholic for much of her career, as do many in Hollywood. Yes, even a whore of Babylon like Madonna was a self identifying Catholic.

Ironically the Bible itself seems to strongly point to the Vatican and the Papacy (not everyday Catholics) as the actual Whore of Babylon in the Bible. Its a worldly religious power structure that has spiritually fornicated and whored itself with all the religions and false idols of the earth. There is no other religious conglomerate on earth that remotely qualifies like the Vatican.

For my real brothers in Christ that are Catholics, do not take that personally. I am not speaking about individual Catholics or the true saints still in that system. But the conglomerate that is the Vatican and papacy in all likelihood is the Whore of Babylon.

(06-20-2021 08:37 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Well, since the Bible clearly says it is impossible for someone to serve both God and mammon, then by taking mammon out of the equation, the church is doing what God says to do, and helping the priests in the process, which is a good thing, at least if you believe in the Bible. Those ministers who are married then logically would be going against God's word, by having their loyalties divided. So theose closest to the ideal stated in the Bible would then be celibate, unmarried, and serving God's church alone.

As Christ constantly referred to himslef as the Bridegroom, he also referred to and inidcated the Church was his bride, so to have more than one bride would be polygamous, which Christ clearly did not advocate for, but did advocate against. So to be a married Chritian minister would in the way described by jesusu himself in the Bible, be polygamous.

What in the world are you talking about here? The Apostles were all married and the NT says that Bishops and priests should be married men married to one woman alone.

There is NOTHING in the NT that suggests priests or bishops should be celibate and never marry, In fact the NT strictly forbids such teachings.

1Tim 4:2-3
"influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
"

1 Timothy 3:2
1 Timothy 3:4-5
1 Timothy 3:1-16

Scripture says very plainly that if a man can be completely free of sexual sin then he can better serve the Lord all day in all matters. But 99.99% of men cannot be completely free of sexual sin and desire, thus scripture says it is better for them to be married, particularly the leaders to help keep them from sexual sin.

In fact we know that those who engage in celibacy are often guilty of sexual misconduct with young boys and homosexual activity.

The idea that you are engaging in polygamy by married a wife is so utterly absurd and so totally contradictory of scripture that I can't believe you even typed that. That is such a disturbingly gross distortion of scripture.

Its the kind of nonsensical madness that hard denominationalism and doctrines of men leads to.

(06-20-2021 08:37 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Speaking of Chirts' own directives, quoted in every christian Bible, Jesus instructed his disciples to "go out and teach everything I have taught you." He did not ever say, to go out and have them read my book. He instructed the apostles to deliver the tradition of instruction and teaching to the world, and that whatever those men bound on earth would also be bound in heaven. Therefore, Jesus gave the apostles and their successors, the church leaders, the authority to make future decisions and address future issues with the authority of God. The root of the church's authority, then, comes from Christ himslef, not from some other man who might think he knows better than Jesus. Jesus said what he said and meant what he meant. And Jesus was faithful to death...100 per cent!

That is a textbook perfect example of taking a single verse and ripping it totally out of context to support a false doctrine.

The one thing Jesus said more than any other was "Have you not read the scriptures...?" Time and time and time again Jesus chastised people and the religious leaders for not reading or knowing the scriptures.

When Jesus was tempted by Satan, His every response was to quote the WORD OF GOD, as THE WORD OF GOD. Each time Jesus was tempted He responded with "IT IS WRITTEN......."

Jesus WHOLLY and unequivocally summited Himself 100% to the scriptures as the Word of God and the final authority. He NEVER, in NO WAY ever suggested that the Apostles or any man that followed had the authority to change or create doctrine. He did not even come close to saying such a thing.

Jesus was also VERY CLEAR that every word of the Bible was authored by God Himself, not man. And He quoted the text over and over and over again as written by a man as the ETERNAL WORD OF GOD. That means when you try to argue that the Words Jesus spoke take value or authority over the rest of the Bible, you are contradicting the very thing Jesus taught and lived by. Jesus read and taught the words of Moses, David, Solomon and the prophets as the ETERNAL WORD OF GOD, not the words of men. Just as Jesus hand picked each Apostle and each man who wrote books of the NT such as Peter, Paul and John.

The words of Paul, Peter, John and the rest in the NT are just as much the ETERNAL WORD OF GOD as the words written by Moses, David, Solomon and spoken Jesus. In fact Jesus never wrote a single book of the Bible, He chose specific men out of the world to write the NT and the Gospels for Him. And their words are also the ETERNAL WORD OF GOD every much as the words written by Moses and the prophets that Jesus read and taught as the final authority.

The reason you take that single verse out of context like you did was because the rest of the NT plainly teaches that scripture ALONE is the final authority and the eternal Word of God. That is the elephant in the room here. Its an attempt to twist that verse totally out of context so you can use it to argue that we should ignore all those other verses that tell us the Bible alone is the Word of God and the final authority on doctrine.


2 Tim 3:15-17
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


Rev 22:18-19
"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book."

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

So...back closer to topic of thread, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops is not necessarily an official organization of the church, but it can have some influence by the collective sentiments of its members. I would not say that that particular organization has been all that conservative in recent decades, which is a shame, and many pray the bishops here will return to more traditional values in the hopes of making a better and more God-fearing world.

The poster above who said the younger generation of semanarians and priests are generally more conservative and less prone to problems of the recent past is on the mark, IMO. Being a Catholic priest today, I would say that you come into it aware of the issues and problems that have preceeded. I find when I speak with today's semanarians, they are more faith-filled and convicted to set a better example than their previous generation of leaders did. This gives me great hope for the future. There are many brave and good men coming into the church to be its next generation of priests and deacons, and they far, far outnumber the few who would try to rot it from within. The time of those men is passing, and a renewal of the clergy, along with a renewal of many of the lay church congregation, through things like increased dedication to home-school groups and families, interest in larger traditional families, bible studies and outreach ministires bodes well for Christ's church's future.

Priests take vows and wear rings, showing their betrothal to the church, which is their bride. They are fully aware that this is what they are doing. They understand they cannot be married to more than one. It makes logical sense in the context of marriage as described in the bible by Jesus and the apostles. I understand some do not agree with this idea, but that does not make it valid or any less scriptural.

As to Jesus' teachings, well nowhere in the Bible does it describe a scriptural Table of Contents, so the idea of solo scriptura is self-refuting, as only church tradition teaches and specifies what books are in the bible in the first place. Without an outside organization with authority to set what is and is not in scripture, the idea of solo scriptura falls apoart. Jesus gave his chosen apostolic church leaders that authority. Did some or have some abused it over the years? Certainly. Was this a aurprise to Jesus or to God? Not really. Does that make Christ's church any less than the authoritative home of the fullness of the faith as Christ himself assigned and described? Most certainly not. No man can fully know the mind of God, but in his church he has the best chance at approaching holiness, by submitting to the divine will of God. It is up to the choicen free will of man to seek it, and the divine grace of God to grant it or withhold it. Now, centuries after Christ, many men have thought they knew better than jesus, and they split off to start their own versions. But while they may certainly retain some truth, they fall short of the full turh described by Christ resting in the authority of his church. There is zero referenece anywhere in the bible to the doctrine of solo scriptura, but it was invented centuries after Christ by men because they were upset at some of what they saw going on by some of the men leading the church. Understandible, but not a reason to go off and invent something that certainly was never described by Christ or in the Bible that was cannonized by the authority that Christ gave his church. So it is not biblical or scriptural itself.

Is the Bible autored by God? Certainly as it is the inspired word of God. But why then do men who claim the Bible as their authority, seek to avoid the very authority it describes, that Christ himslef describes and assignes very clearly to his church, and why do they instead favor a lesser creation of a church instead of the one Christ ordained? I can't answer the exact motivations of such men, but it seems clear they are not fully Christ-centered, and it is always a bad idea to follow mammon rather than submit to the will of God and the church his son assigned authority and ordained, even with imperfect, and yes, even occasionally sinful men that might at times lead it. Again, if that were so, you would certainly never have had Christ choose either St. Peter or especially Judas as apostles. The two ideas are essentially opposed. The idea that only perfect human beings (of which there was only Christ and his Mother) would vever have authority to lead his church is naieve at best and blasphemous against Christ's own words at worst. I'll let God be the judge of that, but I don't wish to go against Christ or his church thinking I have a better idea than a powert that could create a whole universe and redeem man in it.

Biden* and the communists certainly have the right to exercise theri free will in making their bad decisions. I sure wouldn't want to be thenmwhen it comes time to answer for those decisions, and I suspect neither would most of you. It is a struggle, and some men are stronger in some areas than others. Certainly, the idea of celibacy is anathema to many, but just as certainly not to all, and I for one am not as doubtful of the power, will and grace of Gid to grant that ability to those who seek it. Any man that so doubts God's abilities, doubts God himself. It is a pity so many men have been led to openly doubts God's authority, his will, his grace in the name of their own vanities, no matter how much merit some of their ideas may have. You don't necessarily need the Bible to know God, but you do need to bothknow and ovbey God to have a Bible in the first place. Many are saved by God's grace that never heard his word. It is not up to you or me to decide. And If God can create a universe from his divine will, he can certainly save anyone he pleases in any way he pleases, with or without a version of the Bible. The Bible is a tool that ceratianly helps, but remember, satan himself was an excellent scripture-quoter...man does not live by quotes alone, but by submitting to the will of God, which is the authority that God himself in his son Jesus described, in his church, and in his imperfect apostles he chose to lead it on earth until he returns. Bashing his church is akin to bashing God's divine will. If he wills imperfect men to be in charge from time to time, perhaps he is trying to show us something, but turning away from him is ceratinly not what he has in mind. No matter how good or nice some other mens' ideas may be, they simply do not have the authorty to usurp God or Jesus, but it is an eternal shame that many still try.