(06-17-2021 08:41 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-17-2021 06:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  When it comes to "wants" the following holds:

Other than GT, Clemson just wants to create excess demand in their stadium meaning the fewest games with Duke and Syracuse.
UNC must play Duke and UVa or they will not play football.
WF must play NC State and Duke or UNC
NC State must play WF and prefers not to play BC and Syracuse in the same year
UVa must play VT and UNC
FSU must play Miami and prefers not to play Duke, Syracuse, and BC
Miami must play FSU
Duke must play UNC and GT or will not play football. They want to avoid Clemson, FSU, and probably NC State.
VT must play UVa and appear once per year in the State of NC against WF/Duke/NCSU/UNC
GT must play Clemson and Duke
Louisville has no drop deads
BC must play Syracuse
Syracuse must play BC and desires one of Miami, FSU, and Clemson each year
Pitt - I have no idea of any of their wants other than a probably desire to see Syracuse each year

GT, Clemson and FSU EXPECT the league office to always accommodate their year end games with SC and Florida come hell or high water including the scheduling of a chump in week 12 meaning their ACC season ends two weeks early. This is a problem.

NC State can not play a home game in Carter Finley for two weeks in October due to the NC State fair. NC State despises an afternoon start time in September.

Due to UNC Hospital, UNC can not play a home game on a Thursday night without creating traffic hell. (I would think BC on a Thursday night would also be bad)

Public officials in the Triangle don't want State, UNC, and Duke playing significant home games on the same day at nearly the same time.

Pitt and Miami must check with the NFL as they use an NFL stadium.

Everyone wants to appear in Florida at least every other year.

Filling all these wants is why I leave NC State and Clemson and UNC and GT by the wayside on 3 - 5 -5

I may have missed something here.

VT does want to play in North Carolina every year but the ACC did not facilitate that. Duke and UNC were on VT's away schedule in the same years. So, VT had to schedule ECU in North Carolina in the other years. I think it's more important for VT to have a Florida school on the schedule every year and since Miami has been the premiere game on VT's schedule for almost 30 years, that it should be Miami.

Actually you had Duke and UNC on a flip flop until 2013 when Pitt and Syracuse were added. So the ACC did facilitate that until 2013. You got Pitt in exchange for the end to flip flop of Duke and UNC.

09 - at Duke, at ECU, NCSU, UNC
10 - at NCSU, at UNC, Duke, WF, ECU
11 - at ECU, att Duke, at WF, UNC, ASU
12 - at UNC, Duke
13 - at ECU, UNC, Duke, Western Carolina
14 - at Duke, at UNC, at WF, ECU
15 - at ECU, Duke, UNC, NCSU
16 - at UNC, at Duke
17 - at ECU, Duke, UNC
18 - at Duke, at UNC
19 - WF, Duke, UNC

Funny how Coastal teams seem to get what they desire.

Have no clue for sure but would guess Pitt would request
Miami, VaTech, Cuse
Maybe Ville, GaTech, Va, BC

4/4, 2/4, and 2/5 would also work.

4 Annual opponents, plus 4 that you play every other year, and 2 of 5 remaining.

For NC State that might be:

UNC/WF/Clemson/UVa every year then Miami or FSU, and GT or VT every other year. Then play Duke, Louisville, Pitt, BC, and Syracuse on a rotation.
Over 10 years NC State plays UNC, Clemson, WF, and UVa 10 times, plays VT, GT, Miami, and FSU 5 times, and plays Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, and BC 4 times.

(06-20-2021 02:37 PM)Statefan Wrote:  4/4, 2/4, and 2/5 would also work.

4 Annual opponents, plus 4 that you play every other year, and 2 of 5 remaining.

Would be on board with this as well. As long as we can see more of the conference in football.

It was mentioned that Louisville would see Miami, VT and Syracuse then someone said Miami may have to be switched out for FSU. As a fan of the Cards I would be happy with this, but seeing Clemson state they would prefer someone other than NC State on their schedule I would be glad to swap opponents with them. Give them Syracuse since they have beating them once or twice now since joining the ACC, and give Louisville the Wolfpack in North Carolina giving us a better footprint within our recruiting there. A win win for both teams IMO.

(06-17-2021 06:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Louisville has no drop deads

I’m not sure what this term means but I do know Louisville wants to maintain a presence in Florida.

BC Syracuse Louisville VA Tech
Syracuse BC Pitt Louisville
Pitt Miami Syracuse UVA
Louisville FSU BC Syracuse
VA Tech UVA Wake BC
UVA VA Tech UNC Pitt
NC State UNC Clemson Wake
UNC NC State UVA Duke
DUKE Wake GA Tech UNC
WAKE Duke VA Tech NC State
Clemson Ga Tech NC State FSU
GA Tech Clemson Duke Miami
FSU Louisville Miami Clemson
Miami Pitt FSU GA Tech

Looking at the checklist:
UNC must play Duke and UVa - CHECK
WF must play NC State and Duke or UNC - CHECK (UNC is semiannual instead of non conference like now)
NC State must play WF and prefers not to play BC and Syracuse in the same year - CHECK (BC/CUSE can alternate)
UVa must play VT and UNC - CHECK
FSU must play Miami and prefers not to play Duke, Syracuse, and BC - CHECK (BC/CUSE can alternate)
Miami must play FSU - CHECK
Duke must play UNC and GT or will not play football. They want to avoid Clemson, FSU, and probably NC State - CHECK
VT must play UVa and appear once per year in the State of NC against WF/Duke/NCSU/UNC - CHECK (Closest rival WAKE is now annual)
GT must play Clemson and Duke - CHECK
Louisville has no drop deads - CHECK
BC must play Syracuse - CHECK
Syracuse must play BC and desires one of Miami, FSU, and Clemson each year - CHECK (Miami/FSU can alternate)
Pitt - I have no idea of any of their wants other than a probably desire to see Syracuse each year - CHECK

GT, Clemson and FSU EXPECT the league office to always accommodate their year end games with SC and Florida come hell or high water including the scheduling of a chump in week 12 meaning their ACC season ends two weeks early. This is a problem.

In this model Column 1 is end of season "rivalry week" games. Clemson, FSU, GA Tech, and Louisville are all matched with each other so these games can be shifted to an early season out of conference slot. This makes room for their SEC in state rivalry games without inconveniencing the rest of the league.

The only annual games I see missing in this model that we either have now or would like to create are
FSU v GA Tech
Clemson v Miami
NC State v Duke
UNC v Wake
VA Tech v GA Tech - *currently annual game*
VA Tech v. Miami - *currently annual game*

However, since all of these games will be every other year and the tradeoffs are a net gain, I think everyone would be happy with this model

I’d make a few alterations:

BC Syracuse Miami Pitt
Syracuse BC Pitt Louisville
Pitt Miami Syracuse BC
Louisville FSU Syracuse VaTech
VA Tech UVA Wake Louisville
UVA VaTech UNC GaTech
NC State UNC Clemson Wake
UNC NC State UVA Duke
DUKE Wake GaTech UNC
WAKE Duke VaTech NC State
Clemson Ga Tech NC State FSU
GA Tech Clemson Duke UVA
FSU Louisville Miami Clemson
Miami Pitt FSU BC

You can make arguments about who should get Miami between BC, Syracuse, and VaTech. If it’s Syracuse, then swap Louisville back with BC. If it’s VaTech, same thing.

(06-22-2021 09:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  I’d make a few alterations:

BC Syracuse Miami Pitt
Syracuse BC Pitt Louisville
Pitt Miami Syracuse BC
Louisville FSU Syracuse VaTech
VA Tech UVA Wake Louisville
UVA VaTech UNC GaTech
NC State UNC Clemson Wake
UNC NC State UVA Duke
DUKE Wake GaTech UNC
WAKE Duke VaTech NC State
Clemson Ga Tech NC State FSU
GA Tech Clemson Duke UVA
FSU Louisville Miami Clemson
Miami Pitt FSU BC

You can make arguments about who should get Miami between BC, Syracuse, and VaTech. If it’s Syracuse, then swap Louisville back with BC. If it’s VaTech, same thing.

Looks solid

I assumed Miami's top 2 games would be FSU and GA Tech and their request would be honored.

I protected the VA Tech BC game because its currently protected and it fit my model

I guess nobody really knows what Miami wants.

(06-22-2021 08:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  I guess nobody really knows what Miami wants.

Unlike most schools, it is difficult to guess Miami’s preferences.

FWIW, their most played opponents: FSU, Florida, Pitt, Virginia Tech, BC, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, UNC and Syracuse.

(06-22-2021 10:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-22-2021 08:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  I guess nobody really knows what Miami wants.

Unlike most schools, it is difficult to guess Miami’s preferences.

FWIW, their most played opponents: FSU, Florida, Pitt, Virginia Tech, BC, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, UNC and Syracuse.

Right, outside of their in-state rivals and Notre Dame, it is a combo of Big East and Coastal teams.

(06-22-2021 08:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  I guess nobody really knows what Miami wants.

No one cares about what Miami wants. They want to keep FSU of course, but beyond that nothing matters because they are in Miami and their business model is not based on filling an 80K seat stadium when the true demand is only about 65K.

Certain schools need certain games on an annual basis because that is how their booster club is organized. UNC's love for GT is not for GT sports but for the UNC alumni base in Atlanta. Access to Atlanta that goes along with a football or basketball game has been very important for many schools in the past, as well as that access to DC. It allows you to kill 2-3 birds with one stone. You can have a game, and alumni event, and schedule major scholarship meet and interview all on the same weekend.

(06-23-2021 09:13 AM)Statefan Wrote:  

(06-22-2021 08:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  I guess nobody really knows what Miami wants.

No one cares about what Miami wants. They want to keep FSU of course, but beyond that nothing matters because they are in Miami and their business model is not based on filling an 80K seat stadium when the true demand is only about 65K.

Certain schools need certain games on an annual basis because that is how their booster club is organized. UNC's love for GT is not for GT sports but for the UNC alumni base in Atlanta. Access to Atlanta that goes along with a football or basketball game has been very important for many schools in the past, as well as that access to DC. It allows you to kill 2-3 birds with one stone. You can have a game, and alumni event, and schedule major scholarship meet and interview all on the same weekend.

Right, I understand Carolina’s wants. Miami has a lot of students from the northeast, but they don’t seem to cater to that base anymore.

(06-22-2021 06:51 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-17-2021 06:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Louisville has no drop deads

I’m not sure what this term means but I do know Louisville wants to maintain a presence in Florida.

Louisville should always have a scheduling partner with a Florida school, and should have as a permanent rival with Virginia Tech with them being are closes ACC brethren and we have history dating all the way back to the old Metro Conference days.

So yes Louisville does have some “ MUST HAVES “ , and this drop dead statement just sounds stupid.

(06-22-2021 06:51 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-17-2021 06:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Louisville has no drop deads

I’m not sure what this term means but I do know Louisville wants to maintain a presence in Florida.

I think he means "must plays"

BTW, every old Big East school wants to maintain a presence in Florida. Hate to say it but it might be time to think about adding that overgrown college in Orlando.

(06-17-2021 08:57 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-17-2021 06:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  When it comes to "wants" the following holds:

Other than GT, Clemson just wants to create excess demand in their stadium meaning the fewest games with Duke and Syracuse.
UNC must play Duke and UVa or they will not play football.
WF must play NC State and Duke or UNC
NC State must play WF and prefers not to play BC and Syracuse in the same year
UVa must play VT and UNC
FSU must play Miami and prefers not to play Duke, Syracuse, and BC
Miami must play FSU
Duke must play UNC and GT or will not play football. They want to avoid Clemson, FSU, and probably NC State.
VT must play UVa and appear once per year in the State of NC against WF/Duke/NCSU/UNC
GT must play Clemson and Duke
Louisville has no drop deads
BC must play Syracuse
Syracuse must play BC and desires one of Miami, FSU, and Clemson each year
Pitt - I have no idea of any of their wants other than a probably desire to see Syracuse each year

GT, Clemson and FSU EXPECT the league office to always accommodate their year end games with SC and Florida come hell or high water including the scheduling of a chump in week 12 meaning their ACC season ends two weeks early. This is a problem.

NC State can not play a home game in Carter Finley for two weeks in October due to the NC State fair. NC State despises an afternoon start time in September.

Due to UNC Hospital, UNC can not play a home game on a Thursday night without creating traffic hell. (I would think BC on a Thursday night would also be bad)

Public officials in the Triangle don't want State, UNC, and Duke playing significant home games on the same day at nearly the same time.

Pitt and Miami must check with the NFL as they use an NFL stadium.

Everyone wants to appear in Florida at least every other year.

Filling all these wants is why I leave NC State and Clemson and UNC and GT by the wayside on 3 - 5 -5

I may have missed something here.

I cant speak for most SU fans, but I believe the preference is in this order:

Miami
VT
BC
Pitt
Louisville
FSU
Clemson
everyone else

That is as good as any I have seen. Until Cuse starts to consistently win (or play 4-4) in the conference we will have no rivals. I would probably add NC St to the list but in reality until we win more they wouldn't consider us a rival. I hope the new Dome remodel helps recruiting.

A few new realities is Cuse alumni base (and Upstate NY diaspora) is spread primarily down the east coast. The school likes playing those schools first.

(06-25-2021 06:22 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-22-2021 06:51 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-17-2021 06:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Louisville has no drop deads

I’m not sure what this term means but I do know Louisville wants to maintain a presence in Florida.

I think he means "must plays"

BTW, every old Big East school wants to maintain a presence in Florida. Hate to say it but it might be time to think about adding that overgrown college in Orlando.

What you guys are missing is even if your team doesn’t have a permanent rival in Florida you are guaranteed to play a Florida team each season with the rotating 5:

at Miami
vs Miami
at FSU
vs FSU
at Miami
etc.

So no, the ACC does not need to add that overgrown school in Florida.

(06-25-2021 07:07 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-25-2021 06:22 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-22-2021 06:51 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-17-2021 06:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Louisville has no drop deads

I’m not sure what this term means but I do know Louisville wants to maintain a presence in Florida.

I think he means "must plays"

BTW, every old Big East school wants to maintain a presence in Florida. Hate to say it but it might be time to think about adding that overgrown college in Orlando.

What you guys are missing is even if your team doesn’t have a permanent rival in Florida you are guaranteed to play a Florida team each season with the rotating 5:

at Miami
vs Miami
at FSU
vs FSU
at Miami
etc.

So no, the ACC does not need to add that overgrown school in Florida.

Just say no to Disney Tech.

(06-24-2021 09:07 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  

(06-22-2021 06:51 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-17-2021 06:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Louisville has no drop deads

I’m not sure what this term means but I do know Louisville wants to maintain a presence in Florida.

Louisville should always have a scheduling partner with a Florida school, and should have as a permanent rival with Virginia Tech with them being are closes ACC brethren and we have history dating all the way back to the old Metro Conference days.

So yes Louisville does have some “ MUST HAVES “ , and this drop dead statement just sounds stupid.

Not to be overly offensive but -

1. Louisville does not have the mojo or the option to issue "must haves" to the other members - you are low man on the totem pole and will be for the next 50 or so years.

2. Because of basketball and your sweetheart deal in the YUM center your booster club organization is not predicated on football and one or two games that drive your alumni base.

3. Compared to the SAIAA/SIAA/SoCon/SEC/ACC pedigree of schools and relationships, Metro Conference associations are the equivalent of out of wedlock bastard children in an established family.

Drop deads are not just must haves or must plays. Drop dead is an addition or situation that existentially intolerable to a member school - they will actively begin to seek a move, not just talk **** about a move. West Virginia and UVa, Duke, and GT for example. ECU and UNC and NC State for example. UConn and BC for example. Another example would be the changing of certain rules on eligibility, calander, etc., etc.

Now as to Louisville and VT, you have played them 8 times in football over the last 120 years.

These are VT's historic rivals and relationships:

1. UVa 102
2. VMI 79
3. W&M 64
4. West Virginia 52
5. NC State 50
6. W&L 48
7. UNC 43
8. WF 39
9. Clemson 36

In fact VT has played all the other ACC teams including BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, FSU, GT etc., over twice as many times as a minimum compared to Louisville.

Here are yours:

1. Cincy 53
2. Memphis 43
3. W. Kentucky 34
4. Kentucky 32
5. So Miss 30
6. Marshall 29
7. E. Kentucky 28
8. Tulsa 26
9. Dayton 25
10. FSU 21

This is why you don't get to pull rank.