There was an old thread (heck, there may be several) that broke down the ways to set up an ACC football schedule, with no divisions, and a 3 + 5 set up, where you had 3 permanent opponents, and 5 that would rotate on your schedule ... allowing you to play every school in the conference, home and away, in a four year period.

The topic popped up on radio here in Louisville today, and I want to continue the conversation over on our rivals premium board ... and I had hoped to just borrow from that thread. It did a lot of heavy lifitng trying to figure out the 3 permanent opponents for each member.

Honestly with the pending expanded CFP...No Divisions...10 Conference Games and require at least one more P5 Opponent.

For Louisville the locked in schools would be Miami, Virginia Tech and Syracuse...

https://csnbbs.com/thread-896754.html

https://csnbbs.com/thread-878188.html

https://csnbbs.com/thread-877041.html

https://csnbbs.com/thread-853664.html

(06-15-2021 08:55 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  https://csnbbs.com/thread-896754.html

https://csnbbs.com/thread-878188.html

https://csnbbs.com/thread-877041.html

https://csnbbs.com/thread-853664.html

Muchas gracias!

(06-15-2021 06:40 PM)Maize Wrote:  Honestly with the pending expanded CFP...No Divisions...10 Conference Games and require at least one more P5 Opponent.

For Louisville the locked in schools would be Miami, Virginia Tech and Syracuse...

Man I like the way you think

(06-15-2021 06:40 PM)Maize Wrote:  Honestly with the pending expanded CFP...No Divisions...10 Conference Games and require at least one more P5 Opponent.

For Louisville the locked in schools would be Miami, Virginia Tech and Syracuse...

Miami and Pitt almost have to be permanent rivals because if the league wants to have any consistency during Rivalry Week, that game needs to be maintained.

Louisville and Pitt are already basketball “rivals” and I see that as an easy carryover to football.

I think we could see Virginia Tech take UVA’s place, but I don’t see Louisville getting Miami.

I foresee Louisville’s opponents being some combo of Pitt, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, and Florida State.

3 Annual Rivals:

Boston College: Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Wake Forest
Clemson: Florida St, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St
Duke: North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Florida St: Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Miami, Pittsburgh
Louisville*: Miami, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Miami: Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville
North Carolina: Duke, North Carolina St, Virginia
North Carolina St: Clemson, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Pittsburgh: Boston College, Georgia Tech, Syracuse
Syracuse: Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Virginia: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia Tech
Virginia Tech: Florida St, Louisville, Virginia
Wake Forest: Boston College, Duke, North Carolina St

* Based upon Maize's post above.

(06-16-2021 02:54 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  3 Annual Rivals:

Boston College: Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Wake Forest
Clemson: Florida St, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St
Duke: North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Florida St: Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Miami, Pittsburgh
Louisville*: Miami, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Miami: Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville
North Carolina: Duke, North Carolina St, Virginia
North Carolina St: Clemson, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Pittsburgh: Boston College, Georgia Tech, Syracuse
Syracuse: Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Virginia: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia Tech
Virginia Tech: Florida St, Louisville, Virginia
Wake Forest: Boston College, Duke, North Carolina St

* Based upon Maize's post above.

You are not going to break up the 87 year game between GT and Duke. They have played every year since 1933. They have played more games against only WF (100) and UNC (105).

(06-16-2021 07:02 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-15-2021 06:40 PM)Maize Wrote:  Honestly with the pending expanded CFP...No Divisions...10 Conference Games and require at least one more P5 Opponent.

For Louisville the locked in schools would be Miami, Virginia Tech and Syracuse...

Miami and Pitt almost have to be permanent rivals because if the league wants to have any consistency during Rivalry Week, that game needs to be maintained.

Louisville and Pitt are already basketball “rivals” and I see that as an easy carryover to football.

I think we could see Virginia Tech take UVA’s place, but I don’t see Louisville getting Miami.

I foresee Louisville’s opponents being some combo of Pitt, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, and Florida State.

Would be more than fine with that group as well...

Weren’t the basketball rivals determined by every school ranking their choice of opponents and then a formula was created from that yielding the results?

If that’s the case, I can definitely see a lot of schools listing Miami and FSU fairly high, but which schools would the Florida teams rank highest?

I’m certain FSU would rank Miami, Clemson, and Georgia Tech in their top spots. Miami is a little bit more unpredictable. Obviously, they would rank FSU at the top, but it gets a little cloudy after that. We know Virginia Tech is actually a basketball rival, so maybe that would carry over. Does Miami even care about a northeast presence? I mentioned the importance of Miami vs Pitt on Rivalry Week, and I don’t see an annual game vs WVU happening anytime soon.

Anyway, these are exciting times with all the scrapping divisions hubbub. I feel like the ACC will have the ability to construct much more competitive schedules in the future and that is excellent for the conference.

There are two things that could happen to dramatically increase the revenues the ACCN returns to each member.


1. Notre Dame joins in football
2. Conference goes to 9 conference games a year

(I'm not saying that either will happen, just putting this up for discussion).


With Notre Dame becoming a conference game, that would open up the non-conference slot they take up now, giving everyone 3 non-conference games to do with as they please.


In this scenario, in a divisionless situation, you could set things up with ...

4 permanent opponents, and 5 rotating. This gets you home and away with every member in a 4 year period.

I think the 4 permanent opponents solves UNC's problem with only 3 permanent opponents.


So ... as unlikely as it is to occur, it would seem to be one way to solve some problems that other scenarios have built in AND allow the conference to negotiate much favorable terms regarding revenue.

(06-16-2021 05:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  Weren’t the basketball rivals determined by every school ranking their choice of opponents and then a formula was created from that yielding the results?

If that’s the case, I can definitely see a lot of schools listing Miami and FSU fairly high, but which schools would the Florida teams rank highest?

I’m certain FSU would rank Miami, Clemson, and Georgia Tech in their top spots. Miami is a little bit more unpredictable. Obviously, they would rank FSU at the top, but it gets a little cloudy after that. We know Virginia Tech is actually a basketball rival, so maybe that would carry over. Does Miami even care about a northeast presence? I mentioned the importance of Miami vs Pitt on Rivalry Week, and I don’t see an annual game vs WVU happening anytime soon.

Anyway, these are exciting times with all the scrapping divisions hubbub. I feel like the ACC will have the ability to construct much more competitive schedules in the future and that is excellent for the conference.

I guess the debate when it comes to Clemson as an opponent is they are probably the best ticket seller for any other ACC school (if we're counting full ACC football members) but also almost a sure loss. So would Clemson be a team most ACC schools would rank high or rank low? Schools want to win and going to bowl games is probably important to every school but bowl revenue is shared equally among all conference members anyway and once you go beyond the Orange does anyone else really care who goes to Charlotte and El Paso for a bowl? Even if the difference between playing Clemson and not playing Clemson is 5-7 vs. 6-6 are you really going to miss the Sun Bowl when Clemson coming to town fills your stadium vs. an ACC also ran?

(06-17-2021 01:35 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(06-16-2021 05:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  Weren’t the basketball rivals determined by every school ranking their choice of opponents and then a formula was created from that yielding the results?

If that’s the case, I can definitely see a lot of schools listing Miami and FSU fairly high, but which schools would the Florida teams rank highest?

I’m certain FSU would rank Miami, Clemson, and Georgia Tech in their top spots. Miami is a little bit more unpredictable. Obviously, they would rank FSU at the top, but it gets a little cloudy after that. We know Virginia Tech is actually a basketball rival, so maybe that would carry over. Does Miami even care about a northeast presence? I mentioned the importance of Miami vs Pitt on Rivalry Week, and I don’t see an annual game vs WVU happening anytime soon.

Anyway, these are exciting times with all the scrapping divisions hubbub. I feel like the ACC will have the ability to construct much more competitive schedules in the future and that is excellent for the conference.

I guess the debate when it comes to Clemson as an opponent is they are probably the best ticket seller for any other ACC school (if we're counting full ACC football members) but also almost a sure loss. So would Clemson be a team most ACC schools would rank high or rank low? Schools want to win and going to bowl games is probably important to every school but bowl revenue is shared equally among all conference members anyway and once you go beyond the Orange does anyone else really care who goes to Charlotte and El Paso for a bowl? Even if the difference between playing Clemson and not playing Clemson is 5-7 vs. 6-6 are you really going to miss the Sun Bowl when Clemson coming to town fills your stadium vs. an ACC also ran?

Probably very similar to the way most Big Ten teams feel about playing Ohio State.

(06-17-2021 03:44 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-17-2021 01:35 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(06-16-2021 05:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  Weren’t the basketball rivals determined by every school ranking their choice of opponents and then a formula was created from that yielding the results?

If that’s the case, I can definitely see a lot of schools listing Miami and FSU fairly high, but which schools would the Florida teams rank highest?

I’m certain FSU would rank Miami, Clemson, and Georgia Tech in their top spots. Miami is a little bit more unpredictable. Obviously, they would rank FSU at the top, but it gets a little cloudy after that. We know Virginia Tech is actually a basketball rival, so maybe that would carry over. Does Miami even care about a northeast presence? I mentioned the importance of Miami vs Pitt on Rivalry Week, and I don’t see an annual game vs WVU happening anytime soon.

Anyway, these are exciting times with all the scrapping divisions hubbub. I feel like the ACC will have the ability to construct much more competitive schedules in the future and that is excellent for the conference.

I guess the debate when it comes to Clemson as an opponent is they are probably the best ticket seller for any other ACC school (if we're counting full ACC football members) but also almost a sure loss. So would Clemson be a team most ACC schools would rank high or rank low? Schools want to win and going to bowl games is probably important to every school but bowl revenue is shared equally among all conference members anyway and once you go beyond the Orange does anyone else really care who goes to Charlotte and El Paso for a bowl? Even if the difference between playing Clemson and not playing Clemson is 5-7 vs. 6-6 are you really going to miss the Sun Bowl when Clemson coming to town fills your stadium vs. an ACC also ran?

Probably very similar to the way most Big Ten teams feel about playing Ohio State.

Or SEC teams about Alabama.

Difference is the way the current divisions are set up in the SEC and Big Ten it is geographical (for the most part in the SEC with Missouri the obvious exception) and in the ACC they aren't.

(06-16-2021 02:54 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  3 Annual Rivals:

Boston College: Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Wake Forest
Clemson: Florida St, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St
Duke: North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Florida St: Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Miami, Pittsburgh
Louisville*: Miami, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Miami: Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville
North Carolina: Duke, North Carolina St, Virginia
North Carolina St: Clemson, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Pittsburgh: Boston College, Georgia Tech, Syracuse
Syracuse: Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Virginia: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia Tech
Virginia Tech: Florida St, Louisville, Virginia
Wake Forest: Boston College, Duke, North Carolina St

* Based upon Maize's post above.

This is where Catdaddy would historically chime in and tell you that Clemson doesn't consider NC State an important rivalry and should not be one of the three permanent rivals.

I, on the other hand, grew up watching the "Textile Bowl" games and think they would be a fine choice for an annual rival.

(06-17-2021 04:22 PM)Schema Wrote:  

(06-16-2021 02:54 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  3 Annual Rivals:

Boston College: Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Wake Forest
Clemson: Florida St, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St
Duke: North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Florida St: Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Miami, Pittsburgh
Louisville*: Miami, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Miami: Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville
North Carolina: Duke, North Carolina St, Virginia
North Carolina St: Clemson, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Pittsburgh: Boston College, Georgia Tech, Syracuse
Syracuse: Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Virginia: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia Tech
Virginia Tech: Florida St, Louisville, Virginia
Wake Forest: Boston College, Duke, North Carolina St

* Based upon Maize's post above.

This is where Catdaddy would historically chime in and tell you that Clemson doesn't consider NC State an important rivalry and should not be one of the three permanent rivals.

I, on the other hand, grew up watching the "Textile Bowl" games and think they would be a fine choice for an annual rival.

It would give Clemson a game in each of it's 3 primary recruiting states (outside of SC itself).

(06-17-2021 04:22 PM)Schema Wrote:  

(06-16-2021 02:54 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  3 Annual Rivals:

Boston College: Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Wake Forest
Clemson: Florida St, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St
Duke: North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Florida St: Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Miami, Pittsburgh
Louisville*: Miami, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Miami: Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville
North Carolina: Duke, North Carolina St, Virginia
North Carolina St: Clemson, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Pittsburgh: Boston College, Georgia Tech, Syracuse
Syracuse: Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Virginia: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia Tech
Virginia Tech: Florida St, Louisville, Virginia
Wake Forest: Boston College, Duke, North Carolina St

* Based upon Maize's post above.

This is where Catdaddy would historically chime in and tell you that Clemson doesn't consider NC State an important rivalry and should not be one of the three permanent rivals.

I, on the other hand, grew up watching the "Textile Bowl" games and think they would be a fine choice for an annual rival.

I think you are talking some who used to go by the Hungarian form of "resembling a Tiger"

Clemson has played -

South Carolina - 117 times
NC State - 88 times
WF - 86 times
GT - 85 times
Georgia 64 times
MD 62 times
UNC 58 times
Auburn 51 times

Clemson is 2 hours from GT, 3 hours from WF, 4 hours from UNC, almost 5 hours from VT and NC State, and 5 hours from FSU.

In reality NC is two states. I-77 roughly divides the state between Western NC and the rest. While WF was in Wake County over 100 years, it has been in WS since the 1950's and WS is the easternmost edge of Western NC. SW NC might as well be Georgia or SC. GT and WF are Clemson's two closest games. Picking a third for them means choosing between FSU and NC State.

When it comes to "wants" the following holds:

Other than GT, Clemson just wants to create excess demand in their stadium meaning the fewest games with Duke and Syracuse.
UNC must play Duke and UVa or they will not play football.
WF must play NC State and Duke or UNC
NC State must play WF and prefers not to play BC and Syracuse in the same year
UVa must play VT and UNC
FSU must play Miami and prefers not to play Duke, Syracuse, and BC
Miami must play FSU
Duke must play UNC and GT or will not play football. They want to avoid Clemson, FSU, and probably NC State.
VT must play UVa and appear once per year in the State of NC against WF/Duke/NCSU/UNC
GT must play Clemson and Duke
Louisville has no drop deads
BC must play Syracuse
Syracuse must play BC and desires one of Miami, FSU, and Clemson each year
Pitt - I have no idea of any of their wants other than a probably desire to see Syracuse each year

GT, Clemson and FSU EXPECT the league office to always accommodate their year end games with SC and Florida come hell or high water including the scheduling of a chump in week 12 meaning their ACC season ends two weeks early. This is a problem.

NC State can not play a home game in Carter Finley for two weeks in October due to the NC State fair. NC State despises an afternoon start time in September.

Due to UNC Hospital, UNC can not play a home game on a Thursday night without creating traffic hell. (I would think BC on a Thursday night would also be bad)

Public officials in the Triangle don't want State, UNC, and Duke playing significant home games on the same day at nearly the same time.

Pitt and Miami must check with the NFL as they use an NFL stadium.

Everyone wants to appear in Florida at least every other year.

Filling all these wants is why I leave NC State and Clemson and UNC and GT by the wayside on 3 - 5 -5

I may have missed something here.

(06-17-2021 06:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  When it comes to "wants" the following holds:

Other than GT, Clemson just wants to create excess demand in their stadium meaning the fewest games with Duke and Syracuse.
UNC must play Duke and UVa or they will not play football.
WF must play NC State and Duke or UNC
NC State must play WF and prefers not to play BC and Syracuse in the same year
UVa must play VT and UNC
FSU must play Miami and prefers not to play Duke, Syracuse, and BC
Miami must play FSU
Duke must play UNC and GT or will not play football. They want to avoid Clemson, FSU, and probably NC State.
VT must play UVa and appear once per year in the State of NC against WF/Duke/NCSU/UNC
GT must play Clemson and Duke
Louisville has no drop deads
BC must play Syracuse
Syracuse must play BC and desires one of Miami, FSU, and Clemson each year
Pitt - I have no idea of any of their wants other than a probably desire to see Syracuse each year

GT, Clemson and FSU EXPECT the league office to always accommodate their year end games with SC and Florida come hell or high water including the scheduling of a chump in week 12 meaning their ACC season ends two weeks early. This is a problem.

NC State can not play a home game in Carter Finley for two weeks in October due to the NC State fair. NC State despises an afternoon start time in September.

Due to UNC Hospital, UNC can not play a home game on a Thursday night without creating traffic hell. (I would think BC on a Thursday night would also be bad)

Public officials in the Triangle don't want State, UNC, and Duke playing significant home games on the same day at nearly the same time.

Pitt and Miami must check with the NFL as they use an NFL stadium.

Everyone wants to appear in Florida at least every other year.

Filling all these wants is why I leave NC State and Clemson and UNC and GT by the wayside on 3 - 5 -5

I may have missed something here.

VT does want to play in North Carolina every year but the ACC did not facilitate that. Duke and UNC were on VT's away schedule in the same years. So, VT had to schedule ECU in North Carolina in the other years. I think it's more important for VT to have a Florida school on the schedule every year and since Miami has been the premiere game on VT's schedule for almost 30 years, that it should be Miami.

(06-17-2021 06:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  When it comes to "wants" the following holds:

Other than GT, Clemson just wants to create excess demand in their stadium meaning the fewest games with Duke and Syracuse.
UNC must play Duke and UVa or they will not play football.
WF must play NC State and Duke or UNC
NC State must play WF and prefers not to play BC and Syracuse in the same year
UVa must play VT and UNC
FSU must play Miami and prefers not to play Duke, Syracuse, and BC
Miami must play FSU
Duke must play UNC and GT or will not play football. They want to avoid Clemson, FSU, and probably NC State.
VT must play UVa and appear once per year in the State of NC against WF/Duke/NCSU/UNC
GT must play Clemson and Duke
Louisville has no drop deads
BC must play Syracuse
Syracuse must play BC and desires one of Miami, FSU, and Clemson each year
Pitt - I have no idea of any of their wants other than a probably desire to see Syracuse each year

GT, Clemson and FSU EXPECT the league office to always accommodate their year end games with SC and Florida come hell or high water including the scheduling of a chump in week 12 meaning their ACC season ends two weeks early. This is a problem.

NC State can not play a home game in Carter Finley for two weeks in October due to the NC State fair. NC State despises an afternoon start time in September.

Due to UNC Hospital, UNC can not play a home game on a Thursday night without creating traffic hell. (I would think BC on a Thursday night would also be bad)

Public officials in the Triangle don't want State, UNC, and Duke playing significant home games on the same day at nearly the same time.

Pitt and Miami must check with the NFL as they use an NFL stadium.

Everyone wants to appear in Florida at least every other year.

Filling all these wants is why I leave NC State and Clemson and UNC and GT by the wayside on 3 - 5 -5

I may have missed something here.

I cant speak for most SU fans, but I believe the preference is in this order:

Miami
VT
BC
Pitt
Louisville
FSU
Clemson
everyone else