(05-18-2021 01:30 PM)Stammers Wrote: It is all relative to recruiting and talent to your peer group. When you are recruiting in the top 10 you should be good on both sides of the ball. Defensively, Auburn has ranked in the top 6 of the $EC every year in the last five seasons, and in the top 4, four of the last five seasons. That is better than his offense has done.
Using us as an example, you can easily argue that our success is a result of Fuente and Norvell being great offensive coaches. You can see it compared to our peers, and you can see it because of the difference on both sides of the ball. With Auburn, their recruiting is top 10, and their offense and defense performs better than their offense.
When they go out of conference, they light up crappy teams the same way that we do, sometimes, but not always. They don't light up middle of the pack teams at all.
If you go down the list, they almost never score more than 28 points against anyone with a pulse.
So it's all relative. One, Malzahn hasn't been an offensive genius by any measure. Two, his defenses have outperformed his offenses. Three, his track record suggests that recruiting in the AAC is going to be much different, and he is far from a slam dunk.
Yes it is relative...
But it is easier to scheme against less talented squads because they will have much larger flaws.
If I have a 4.4 40 running back in the AAC it is easier to get him in the open field than in the SEC.
Zones are much easier to exploit against slower teams...Because the field is essentially smaller against faster teams. Austin Hall taking deep 1/2 is much different than 5* Safety at Bama.
It's all relative. Austin Hall had the 201st pick out of SMU running at him. Alabama had the 5th pick out of LSU running at him.
I still don't think that it matters as far as this debate goes. The statement was made that Malzahn is an offensive genius, when in fact, he hasn't been in a long time. His defenses at Auburn were better than his offenses most of the time. If he was an offensive genius, his offenses would have outshone his defenses. If he was an offensive genius, that would have been enough to make many of his teams elite.
In 2017 his teams gave up 14 points each to #4 Clemson and #1 Alabama, 17 points to then #2 Georgia (then #1), 10 points to #19 Mississippi State. If his offense would have been playing at the same level, they would have made the playoff.
You can make the statement that Norvell is an offensive genius, because he got his results from lopsided production from the offense. Malzahn's offense and defense were the same.
It is not ALL relative...This concept has nothing to do with Malzahn.
Austin covering 1/2 the field against the zone it very easy to exploit...Doesn't matter who he is covering. All you have to do is run simple route combos and there are just huge holes in the coverage.
Gibson outrunning linebackers running 4.8 40s is easier than him outrunning Linebackers running 4.5s. You can put those slow players in situations that they cannot recover. All that is needed is a couple of guys in the AAC and a competent QB and the coach can get the defense on its heels.
There are reasons some plays just don't work as the level of talent goes up.
That isn't true at all. During Oregon's 3 year run they scored on everyone they played, regardless of ranking, regardless of conference. UCF scored more points against Georgia than anyone else scored against them the entire season.
In 2019 we scored more points against Penn State than anyone else, and that was with Dill and Magnifico out. All of our plays worked against them. Minnesota scored the next most points against them, and they run a spread offense. They gave up 12 points to Iowa, 21 to Michigan and 28 to Ohio State.
Austin Hall and the defensive backfield were a non issue against Penn State. Even with the defense selling out against the run on every single play, they were only 11-20 for 133 yards and 1 touchdown. If they would have thrown the ball 40 times we would have beaten them.
Yeah we scored against PSU...And they didn't throw the ball because they averaged 7.5 yards per carry. The gashed us. If I can average 7.5 yards a carry I would never throw the ball.
Our stretch plays running the ball were essentially gone...Nothing...Nada...Nil.
And Oregon...Really...Chip Kelly Oregon. He is was running a scheme that people are still trying to replicate and being in the PAC didn't hurt either...So yeah he was a great offensive mind.
You can come up with one offs...But there is a reason some plays just don't work when players get better. The better the defensive players get it becomes less about the scheme and more about discipline and on field intelligence.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2021 05:17 PM by macgar32.)
(05-18-2021 01:45 PM)macgar32 Wrote: Yes it is relative...
But it is easier to scheme against less talented squads because they will have much larger flaws.
If I have a 4.4 40 running back in the AAC it is easier to get him in the open field than in the SEC.
Zones are much easier to exploit against slower teams...Because the field is essentially smaller against faster teams. Austin Hall taking deep 1/2 is much different than 5* Safety at Bama.
It's all relative. Austin Hall had the 201st pick out of SMU running at him. Alabama had the 5th pick out of LSU running at him.
I still don't think that it matters as far as this debate goes. The statement was made that Malzahn is an offensive genius, when in fact, he hasn't been in a long time. His defenses at Auburn were better than his offenses most of the time. If he was an offensive genius, his offenses would have outshone his defenses. If he was an offensive genius, that would have been enough to make many of his teams elite.
In 2017 his teams gave up 14 points each to #4 Clemson and #1 Alabama, 17 points to then #2 Georgia (then #1), 10 points to #19 Mississippi State. If his offense would have been playing at the same level, they would have made the playoff.
You can make the statement that Norvell is an offensive genius, because he got his results from lopsided production from the offense. Malzahn's offense and defense were the same.
It is not ALL relative...This concept has nothing to do with Malzahn.
Austin covering 1/2 the field against the zone it very easy to exploit...Doesn't matter who he is covering. All you have to do is run simple route combos and there are just huge holes in the coverage.
Gibson outrunning linebackers running 4.8 40s is easier than him outrunning Linebackers running 4.5s. You can put those slow players in situations that they cannot recover. All that is needed is a couple of guys in the AAC and a competent QB and the coach can get the defense on its heels.
There are reasons some plays just don't work as the level of talent goes up.
That isn't true at all. During Oregon's 3 year run they scored on everyone they played, regardless of ranking, regardless of conference. UCF scored more points against Georgia than anyone else scored against them the entire season.
In 2019 we scored more points against Penn State than anyone else, and that was with Dill and Magnifico out. All of our plays worked against them. Minnesota scored the next most points against them, and they run a spread offense. They gave up 12 points to Iowa, 21 to Michigan and 28 to Ohio State.
Austin Hall and the defensive backfield were a non issue against Penn State. Even with the defense selling out against the run on every single play, they were only 11-20 for 133 yards and 1 touchdown. If they would have thrown the ball 40 times we would have beaten them.
Yeah we scored against PSU...And they didn't throw the ball because they averaged 7.5 yards per carry. The gashed us. If I can average 7.5 yards a carry I would never throw the ball.
Our stretch plays running the ball were essentially gone...Nothing...Nada...Nil.
And Oregon...Really...Chip Kelly Oregon. He is was running a scheme that people are still trying to replicate and being in the PAC didn't hurt either...So yeah he was a great offensive mind.
You can come up with one offs...But there is a reason some plays just don't work when players get better. The better the defensive players get it becomes less about the scheme and more about discipline and on field intelligence.
So your entire argument is because he isn't Alabama, he can't win? His recruiting classes have averaged #9 in the country his entire time at Auburn. How many times has he finished #10 or higher in the rankings in his 8 years? One time, his first year in 2013.
He has been ranked in the top 10 once, in the top 25 five times, and unranked 3 times. His offense has never been in the top 25 in the country.
Top 10 Since 2013
8 Alabama
4 Georgia
3 Florida
2 TAM
2 Ole Piss
1 South Carolina
1 Mississippi State
1 Missouri
1 Auburn
Anyway, the bottom line is that he has been unranked 2 of the last 3 years and has 1 bowl game win in the last 5 years. He is anything but a sure thing at UCF.
It's easier to be an offensive juggernaut at schools like Memphis and UCF, then it is at places like Auburn.
You cannot compare the strengths of schedules that Memphis/UCF plays...and Auburn. Two different animals.
I imagine if Auburn played in the AAC under Malzahn with the talent they had since he was head coach at Auburn...he would have lost MAYBE 1 game a year...if that. Plus...they would have ranked MUCH higher in offense during that time.
Similarly...you take UCF under Frost/Heupel and put them in the SEC in place of Auburn during the Malzahn years...UCF would have been a doormat like Vanderbilt.
However should we test this theory??? I know, let’s make UCF under Frost with his recruits play against Auburn with Malzahn and his recruits. We’ll call it the “Peach Bowl”, and we’ll schedule it in 2018.
If you are right, then Auburn should mop the floor with UCF.
One game vs a. 12-13 game SEC schedule?
Are you serious?
There is no way UCF would have won more than 8 games with Auburn's schedule. #Fact
LSU,Georgia,Florida,Bama,Texas A&M,Missouri,UK,Ole Miss or Moo State.
Let's see ANY G5 squad escape a schedule like that in SEC league play with more than 4 or 5 wins.
Point being...revisit this thread in year 2 or 3 of Malzahn stuff. Get his guys in place... and see if UCF isn't one of the top offensive teams in the country.
I kind of expect them to be next year... Just based on what they already have coming in.[/code]
(05-18-2021 12:12 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote: Compare that to Bama's rankings. And yes. They have a recruiting disadvantage to Bama.
Being seen as LESSER than Bama consistently is a disadvantage.
So your entire argument is because he isn't Alabama, he can't win? His recruiting classes have averaged #9 in the country his entire time at Auburn. How many times has he finished #10 or higher in the rankings in his 8 years? One time, his first year in 2013.
He has been ranked in the top 10 once, in the top 25 five times, and unranked 3 times. His offense has never been in the top 25 in the country.
Top 10 Since 2013
8 Alabama
4 Georgia
3 Florida
2 TAM
2 Ole Piss
1 South Carolina
1 Mississippi State
1 Missouri
1 Auburn
Anyway, the bottom line is that he has been unranked 2 of the last 3 years and has 1 bowl game win in the last 5 years. He is anything but a sure thing at UCF.
It's easier to be an offensive juggernaut at schools like Memphis and UCF, then it is at places like Auburn.
You cannot compare the strengths of schedules that Memphis/UCF plays...and Auburn. Two different animals.
I imagine if Auburn played in the AAC under Malzahn with the talent they had since he was head coach at Auburn...he would have lost MAYBE 1 game a year...if that. Plus...they would have ranked MUCH higher in offense during that time.
Similarly...you take UCF under Frost/Heupel and put them in the SEC in place of Auburn during the Malzahn years...UCF would have been a doormat like Vanderbilt.
However should we test this theory??? I know, let’s make UCF under Frost with his recruits play against Auburn with Malzahn and his recruits. We’ll call it the “Peach Bowl”, and we’ll schedule it in 2018.
If you are right, then Auburn should mop the floor with UCF.
One game vs a. 12-13 game SEC schedule?
Are you serious?
There is no way UCF would have won more than 8 games with Auburn's schedule. #Fact
LSU,Georgia,Florida,Bama,Texas A&M,Missouri,UK,Ole Miss or Moo State.
Let's see ANY G5 squad escape a schedule like that in SEC league play with more than 4 or 5 wins.
Point being...revisit this thread in year 2 or 3 of Malzahn stuff. Get his guys in place... and see if UCF isn't one of the top offensive teams in the country.
I kind of expect them to be next year... Just based on what they already have coming in.[/code]
Playing such tough teams as the SEC, lowly UCF should have been an easy win.
(05-18-2021 01:02 PM)Stammers Wrote: So your entire argument is because he isn't Alabama, he can't win? His recruiting classes have averaged #9 in the country his entire time at Auburn. How many times has he finished #10 or higher in the rankings in his 8 years? One time, his first year in 2013.
He has been ranked in the top 10 once, in the top 25 five times, and unranked 3 times. His offense has never been in the top 25 in the country.
Top 10 Since 2013
8 Alabama
4 Georgia
3 Florida
2 TAM
2 Ole Piss
1 South Carolina
1 Mississippi State
1 Missouri
1 Auburn
Anyway, the bottom line is that he has been unranked 2 of the last 3 years and has 1 bowl game win in the last 5 years. He is anything but a sure thing at UCF.
It's easier to be an offensive juggernaut at schools like Memphis and UCF, then it is at places like Auburn.
You cannot compare the strengths of schedules that Memphis/UCF plays...and Auburn. Two different animals.
I imagine if Auburn played in the AAC under Malzahn with the talent they had since he was head coach at Auburn...he would have lost MAYBE 1 game a year...if that. Plus...they would have ranked MUCH higher in offense during that time.
Similarly...you take UCF under Frost/Heupel and put them in the SEC in place of Auburn during the Malzahn years...UCF would have been a doormat like Vanderbilt.
However should we test this theory??? I know, let’s make UCF under Frost with his recruits play against Auburn with Malzahn and his recruits. We’ll call it the “Peach Bowl”, and we’ll schedule it in 2018.
If you are right, then Auburn should mop the floor with UCF.
One game vs a. 12-13 game SEC schedule?
Are you serious?
There is no way UCF would have won more than 8 games with Auburn's schedule. #Fact
LSU,Georgia,Florida,Bama,Texas A&M,Missouri,UK,Ole Miss or Moo State.
Let's see ANY G5 squad escape a schedule like that in SEC league play with more than 4 or 5 wins.
Point being...revisit this thread in year 2 or 3 of Malzahn stuff. Get his guys in place... and see if UCF isn't one of the top offensive teams in the country.
I kind of expect them to be next year... Just based on what they already have coming in.[/code]
Playing such tough teams as the SEC, lowly UCF should have been an easy win.
Seven
Vii
7 games before people start posting about silverfields buyout, not me btw.
Mark it
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2021 08:10 PM by shere khan.)
(05-18-2021 01:02 PM)Stammers Wrote: So your entire argument is because he isn't Alabama, he can't win? His recruiting classes have averaged #9 in the country his entire time at Auburn. How many times has he finished #10 or higher in the rankings in his 8 years? One time, his first year in 2013.
He has been ranked in the top 10 once, in the top 25 five times, and unranked 3 times. His offense has never been in the top 25 in the country.
Top 10 Since 2013
8 Alabama
4 Georgia
3 Florida
2 TAM
2 Ole Piss
1 South Carolina
1 Mississippi State
1 Missouri
1 Auburn
Anyway, the bottom line is that he has been unranked 2 of the last 3 years and has 1 bowl game win in the last 5 years. He is anything but a sure thing at UCF.
It's easier to be an offensive juggernaut at schools like Memphis and UCF, then it is at places like Auburn.
You cannot compare the strengths of schedules that Memphis/UCF plays...and Auburn. Two different animals.
I imagine if Auburn played in the AAC under Malzahn with the talent they had since he was head coach at Auburn...he would have lost MAYBE 1 game a year...if that. Plus...they would have ranked MUCH higher in offense during that time.
Similarly...you take UCF under Frost/Heupel and put them in the SEC in place of Auburn during the Malzahn years...UCF would have been a doormat like Vanderbilt.
However should we test this theory??? I know, let’s make UCF under Frost with his recruits play against Auburn with Malzahn and his recruits. We’ll call it the “Peach Bowl”, and we’ll schedule it in 2018.
If you are right, then Auburn should mop the floor with UCF.
One game vs a. 12-13 game SEC schedule?
Are you serious?
There is no way UCF would have won more than 8 games with Auburn's schedule. #Fact
LSU,Georgia,Florida,Bama,Texas A&M,Missouri,UK,Ole Miss or Moo State.
Let's see ANY G5 squad escape a schedule like that in SEC league play with more than 4 or 5 wins.
Point being...revisit this thread in year 2 or 3 of Malzahn stuff. Get his guys in place... and see if UCF isn't one of the top offensive teams in the country.
I kind of expect them to be next year... Just based on what they already have coming in.[/code]
Playing such tough teams as the SEC, lowly UCF should have been an easy win.
Au played Uga twice, bama and the rb had broken ribs when UCF beat them. Hell they didn't even wanna be there.
Let the fiction continue. I'm amused.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2021 08:16 PM by shere khan.)
(05-18-2021 01:48 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote: It's easier to be an offensive juggernaut at schools like Memphis and UCF, then it is at places like Auburn.
You cannot compare the strengths of schedules that Memphis/UCF plays...and Auburn. Two different animals.
I imagine if Auburn played in the AAC under Malzahn with the talent they had since he was head coach at Auburn...he would have lost MAYBE 1 game a year...if that. Plus...they would have ranked MUCH higher in offense during that time.
Similarly...you take UCF under Frost/Heupel and put them in the SEC in place of Auburn during the Malzahn years...UCF would have been a doormat like Vanderbilt.
However should we test this theory??? I know, let’s make UCF under Frost with his recruits play against Auburn with Malzahn and his recruits. We’ll call it the “Peach Bowl”, and we’ll schedule it in 2018.
If you are right, then Auburn should mop the floor with UCF.
One game vs a. 12-13 game SEC schedule?
Are you serious?
There is no way UCF would have won more than 8 games with Auburn's schedule. #Fact
LSU,Georgia,Florida,Bama,Texas A&M,Missouri,UK,Ole Miss or Moo State.
Let's see ANY G5 squad escape a schedule like that in SEC league play with more than 4 or 5 wins.
Point being...revisit this thread in year 2 or 3 of Malzahn stuff. Get his guys in place... and see if UCF isn't one of the top offensive teams in the country.
I kind of expect them to be next year... Just based on what they already have coming in.[/code]
Playing such tough teams as the SEC, lowly UCF should have been an easy win.
Au played Uga twice, bama and the rb had broken ribs when UCF beat them. Hell they didn't even wanna be there.
Let the fiction continue. I'm amused.
Yeah, you’re right. The healthy Auburn players probably wanted to lose the game anyway. Who cares about a stupid New Years Six bowl?
(05-18-2021 02:18 PM)aardWolf Wrote: However should we test this theory??? I know, let’s make UCF under Frost with his recruits play against Auburn with Malzahn and his recruits. We’ll call it the “Peach Bowl”, and we’ll schedule it in 2018.
If you are right, then Auburn should mop the floor with UCF.
One game vs a. 12-13 game SEC schedule?
Are you serious?
There is no way UCF would have won more than 8 games with Auburn's schedule. #Fact
LSU,Georgia,Florida,Bama,Texas A&M,Missouri,UK,Ole Miss or Moo State.
Let's see ANY G5 squad escape a schedule like that in SEC league play with more than 4 or 5 wins.
Point being...revisit this thread in year 2 or 3 of Malzahn stuff. Get his guys in place... and see if UCF isn't one of the top offensive teams in the country.
I kind of expect them to be next year... Just based on what they already have coming in.[/code]
Playing such tough teams as the SEC, lowly UCF should have been an easy win.
Au played Uga twice, bama and the rb had broken ribs when UCF beat them. Hell they didn't even wanna be there.
Let the fiction continue. I'm amused.
Yeah, you’re right. The healthy Auburn players probably wanted to lose the game anyway. Who cares about a stupid New Years Six bowl?
In Atlanta, at that point. Yes. BFD.
Then. UCF hired the very same coach they beat
You do the math.
Yes, yes I'm right
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2021 08:18 PM by shere khan.)
(05-18-2021 07:47 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote: One game vs a. 12-13 game SEC schedule?
Are you serious?
There is no way UCF would have won more than 8 games with Auburn's schedule. #Fact
LSU,Georgia,Florida,Bama,Texas A&M,Missouri,UK,Ole Miss or Moo State.
Let's see ANY G5 squad escape a schedule like that in SEC league play with more than 4 or 5 wins.
Point being...revisit this thread in year 2 or 3 of Malzahn stuff. Get his guys in place... and see if UCF isn't one of the top offensive teams in the country.
I kind of expect them to be next year... Just based on what they already have coming in.[/code]
Playing such tough teams as the SEC, lowly UCF should have been an easy win.
Au played Uga twice, bama and the rb had broken ribs when UCF beat them. Hell they didn't even wanna be there.
Let the fiction continue. I'm amused.
Yeah, you’re right. The healthy Auburn players probably wanted to lose the game anyway. Who cares about a stupid New Years Six bowl?
In Atlanta, at that point. Yes. BFD.
Then. UCF hired the very same coach they beat
You do the math.
Maybe Malzahn threw the game so he could secure a job at UCF
(05-18-2021 08:15 PM)aardWolf Wrote: Yeah, you’re right. The healthy Auburn players probably wanted to lose the game anyway. Who cares about a stupid New Years Six bowl?
In Atlanta, at that point. Yes. BFD.
Then. UCF hired the very same coach they beat
You do the math.
Maybe Malzahn threw the game so he could secure a job at UCF
Gotta laugh at $EC apologists showing their true colors.
"but it's the power school plays tough games EVERY week"
"but it's easier to win with less talent on the field"
"but the power school didn't want to be there"
(05-17-2021 08:50 PM)jsw3ent Wrote: I agree---he is better than Houston and Scott
Well. 1 point better than Scott anyway. The verdict is still out on Houston.
5 wins by 3 points or less. Blown off the map by Cincy. Manhandled by Tulane. Team wont be as good this year. He'll have a chance to prove it.
I'm afraid you're right
Prepare for the opprobrium from the cool kids. Might as well let me be the villain.
villain? nah...just wrong as always.
Here's our issue. THIS.
We can have differing opinions. It's not black and white, there is grey. There isn't a right and a wrong. If you think they're is, you're coming in with a closed minded approach.
(05-18-2021 01:48 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote: It's easier to be an offensive juggernaut at schools like Memphis and UCF, then it is at places like Auburn.
You cannot compare the strengths of schedules that Memphis/UCF plays...and Auburn. Two different animals.
I imagine if Auburn played in the AAC under Malzahn with the talent they had since he was head coach at Auburn...he would have lost MAYBE 1 game a year...if that. Plus...they would have ranked MUCH higher in offense during that time.
Similarly...you take UCF under Frost/Heupel and put them in the SEC in place of Auburn during the Malzahn years...UCF would have been a doormat like Vanderbilt.
However should we test this theory??? I know, let’s make UCF under Frost with his recruits play against Auburn with Malzahn and his recruits. We’ll call it the “Peach Bowl”, and we’ll schedule it in 2018.
If you are right, then Auburn should mop the floor with UCF.
One game vs a. 12-13 game SEC schedule?
Are you serious?
There is no way UCF would have won more than 8 games with Auburn's schedule. #Fact
LSU,Georgia,Florida,Bama,Texas A&M,Missouri,UK,Ole Miss or Moo State.
Let's see ANY G5 squad escape a schedule like that in SEC league play with more than 4 or 5 wins.
Point being...revisit this thread in year 2 or 3 of Malzahn stuff. Get his guys in place... and see if UCF isn't one of the top offensive teams in the country.
I kind of expect them to be next year... Just based on what they already have coming in.[/code]
Playing such tough teams as the SEC, lowly UCF should have been an easy win.
Au played Uga twice, bama and the rb had broken ribs when UCF beat them. Hell they didn't even wanna be there.
/
Silverfield ranked the 9th best coach...
![[Image: tumblr_mhm7urx5Dg1s4rha3o6_r1_250.gifv]](https://64.media.tumblr.com/43db5a3b37bfc72553ad62dafe9b9e03/tumblr_mhm7urx5Dg1s4rha3o6_r1_250.gifv)
