(04-12-2021 09:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 07:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 03:59 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 03:23 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 01:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I'm not looking at the list as I type but ...

Dayton has a Final Four appearance and Fordham does not. You got the others. Well done.

Dayton was one I should have known because a lot of midwestern teams were making strong runs back in the day. That said, Fordham also had very strong teams way back as well. Those two and St. Joe's were the three I was down to and I just figured Fordham probably made a Final 4 back in the 40's or 50's.

Can anyone guess a team that made a Final 4 that is no longer D1? I only know of two.

NYU and CCNY ?

Yeah, those are the two I can think of. Ken is saying they must be the only teams to drop.

I’d love to see an alternate reality where CCNY remained at the D1 level. NYU as well. I’m not sure where they’d all play though haha. The Johnnies nabbed MSG.

When I lived in New York, it was not uncommon for MSG to have double headers involving four of the local schools on the same night. Of course, by then CCNY had already been a victim of scandals that shut their hoops program down. But NYU was still a national power and shared the facility with St. John's often.

Oh yeah, good point. I’ve seen old programs with those double headers on them.

NYU dropping basketball to a lower division under the guise of affordability reeks of dishonesty. Maybe I don’t know my NYU history, but they seem to be doing just fine monetarily.

(04-13-2021 07:49 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 09:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 07:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 03:59 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 03:23 PM)esayem Wrote:  Dayton was one I should have known because a lot of midwestern teams were making strong runs back in the day. That said, Fordham also had very strong teams way back as well. Those two and St. Joe's were the three I was down to and I just figured Fordham probably made a Final 4 back in the 40's or 50's.

Can anyone guess a team that made a Final 4 that is no longer D1? I only know of two.

NYU and CCNY ?

Yeah, those are the two I can think of. Ken is saying they must be the only teams to drop.

I’d love to see an alternate reality where CCNY remained at the D1 level. NYU as well. I’m not sure where they’d all play though haha. The Johnnies nabbed MSG.

When I lived in New York, it was not uncommon for MSG to have double headers involving four of the local schools on the same night. Of course, by then CCNY had already been a victim of scandals that shut their hoops program down. But NYU was still a national power and shared the facility with St. John's often.

Oh yeah, good point. I’ve seen old programs with those double headers on them.

NYU dropping basketball to a lower division under the guise of affordability reeks of dishonesty. Maybe I don’t know my NYU history, but they seem to be doing just fine monetarily.

NYU’s endowment was $4.5 billion in 2020. The school is not struggling financially.

I found a bit of information here: NYU Holds Out On Sports

They didn’t move down a division, but actually straight up dropped their basketball team.

Before it was scrapped at the height of a budget crisis in 1971, NYU's men's basketball program was a national power whose teams played for sellout crowds at Madison Square Garden. NYU still boasts winning records against several top schools like Connecticut, Georgetown and North Carolina and on May 8, the school will commemorate the 50th anniversary of the 1959-60 season when the Violets reached the NCAA tournament's Final Four.

Later in 1971, after a disastrous 20-loss season—the worst in team history—and with the school accumulating $6.7-million debt, men's basketball was symbol of excess that the school couldn't justify.

Since then, much has changed for the school, and in the sports landscape. NYU sold its University Heights campus to City University, relocated to Greenwich Village and grew wealthy again. Meanwhile, once-proud New York City basketball programs like St. John's, Fordham and Manhattan have also floundered. At the same time, several academically superior schools like Duke, Stanford and Georgetown have shown that it's possible for such a school to have a top-level basketball team.

It would be cool to see them in the Patriot League or the MAAC.

(04-14-2021 10:20 AM)esayem Wrote:  I found a bit of information here: NYU Holds Out On Sports

They didn’t move down a division, but actually straight up dropped their basketball team.

Before it was scrapped at the height of a budget crisis in 1971, NYU's men's basketball program was a national power whose teams played for sellout crowds at Madison Square Garden. NYU still boasts winning records against several top schools like Connecticut, Georgetown and North Carolina and on May 8, the school will commemorate the 50th anniversary of the 1959-60 season when the Violets reached the NCAA tournament's Final Four.

Later in 1971, after a disastrous 20-loss season—the worst in team history—and with the school accumulating $6.7-million debt, men's basketball was symbol of excess that the school couldn't justify.

Since then, much has changed for the school, and in the sports landscape. NYU sold its University Heights campus to City University, relocated to Greenwich Village and grew wealthy again. Meanwhile, once-proud New York City basketball programs like St. John's, Fordham and Manhattan have also floundered. At the same time, several academically superior schools like Duke, Stanford and Georgetown have shown that it's possible for such a school to have a top-level basketball team.

It would be cool to see them in the Patriot League or the MAAC.

Likely Patriot over MAAC but any chance of joining the...(gulp)...Ivy League?

(04-14-2021 10:52 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 10:20 AM)esayem Wrote:  I found a bit of information here: NYU Holds Out On Sports

They didn’t move down a division, but actually straight up dropped their basketball team.

Before it was scrapped at the height of a budget crisis in 1971, NYU's men's basketball program was a national power whose teams played for sellout crowds at Madison Square Garden. NYU still boasts winning records against several top schools like Connecticut, Georgetown and North Carolina and on May 8, the school will commemorate the 50th anniversary of the 1959-60 season when the Violets reached the NCAA tournament's Final Four.

Later in 1971, after a disastrous 20-loss season—the worst in team history—and with the school accumulating $6.7-million debt, men's basketball was symbol of excess that the school couldn't justify.

Since then, much has changed for the school, and in the sports landscape. NYU sold its University Heights campus to City University, relocated to Greenwich Village and grew wealthy again. Meanwhile, once-proud New York City basketball programs like St. John's, Fordham and Manhattan have also floundered. At the same time, several academically superior schools like Duke, Stanford and Georgetown have shown that it's possible for such a school to have a top-level basketball team.

It would be cool to see them in the Patriot League or the MAAC.

Likely Patriot over MAAC but any chance of joining the...(gulp)...Ivy League?

No. As an Ivy League (Penn ‘89) fan, I don’t believe that NYU currently has the right profile. The academics and research are outstanding, but the admissions standards are not inclusive. NYU seems to have admissions programs similar to Boston University and GWU. If the Ivy needs to expand, schools like MIT and John Hopkins get the call...allowing the massive research institutions to finally overwhelm the remaining vestiges of liberal arts focus.

(04-12-2021 04:44 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 03:23 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 01:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 12:29 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 12:22 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Worth noting (and if I'm counting correctly):

Six AAC teams (of 11) have made a Final Four — Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU, Temple and Wichita State. (Tulsa has an Elite Eight.)

The Atlantic Ten has eight of its 14 members with a past Final Four appearance.

The MVC with four (Bradley, Drake, Loyola, Indiana State)

C-USA has three (UTEP, Charlotte and Western Kentucky)

The Mountain West with two (UNLV and Wyoming).

WCC with two (Gonzaga and Santa Clara).

And I count appearances that were later vacated.

I’m going to guess the six A10 teams without an appearance:

Appearance: VCU, UMass, LaSalle, Duquesne, St. Bona, GMU, Fordham, St. Joe’s

No appearance: Richmond, URI, Davidson, Dayton, St. Louis, GW

Going back and forth with Dayton and St. Joe’s!

I'm not looking at the list as I type but ...

Dayton has a Final Four appearance and Fordham does not. You got the others. Well done.

Dayton was one I should have known because a lot of midwestern teams were making strong runs back in the day. That said, Fordham also had very strong teams way back as well. Those two and St. Joe's were the three I was down to and I just figured Fordham probably made a Final 4 back in the 40's or 50's.

Can anyone guess a team that made a Final 4 that is no longer D1? I only know of two.

Dayton made a Final Four during a span during which Drake, New Mexico State, St. Bonaventure, Jacksonville, Western Kentucky, Princeton and UTEP also made the Final Four. Outside of Dayton, it's a bit of challenge envisioning any of those programs ever returning. But you never know.

You don't think you could envision Bona making a final 4? Schmidt has them on the right path, wouldn't be too crazy to see them make it there.

I mean I doubt they'd get into the tournament as a top 4 seed, but they'd certainly have a chance of getting in as a decent single digit seed that has an upset or two on the way.

(04-12-2021 03:23 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 01:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 12:29 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 12:22 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Worth noting (and if I'm counting correctly):

Six AAC teams (of 11) have made a Final Four — Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU, Temple and Wichita State. (Tulsa has an Elite Eight.)

The Atlantic Ten has eight of its 14 members with a past Final Four appearance.

The MVC with four (Bradley, Drake, Loyola, Indiana State)

C-USA has three (UTEP, Charlotte and Western Kentucky)

The Mountain West with two (UNLV and Wyoming).

WCC with two (Gonzaga and Santa Clara).

And I count appearances that were later vacated.

I’m going to guess the six A10 teams without an appearance:

Appearance: VCU, UMass, LaSalle, Duquesne, St. Bona, GMU, Fordham, St. Joe’s

No appearance: Richmond, URI, Davidson, Dayton, St. Louis, GW

Going back and forth with Dayton and St. Joe’s!

I'm not looking at the list as I type but ...

Dayton has a Final Four appearance and Fordham does not. You got the others. Well done.

Dayton was one I should have known because a lot of midwestern teams were making strong runs back in the day. That said, Fordham also had very strong teams way back as well. Those two and St. Joe's were the three I was down to and I just figured Fordham probably made a Final 4 back in the 40's or 50's.

Can anyone guess a team that made a Final 4 that is no longer D1? I only know of two.

Fordham was never a basketball power. In their entire history they have only won 1 NCAAT game and 5 NIT games, almost all first rounders.

(04-14-2021 03:06 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 03:23 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 01:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 12:29 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 12:22 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Worth noting (and if I'm counting correctly):

Six AAC teams (of 11) have made a Final Four — Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU, Temple and Wichita State. (Tulsa has an Elite Eight.)

The Atlantic Ten has eight of its 14 members with a past Final Four appearance.

The MVC with four (Bradley, Drake, Loyola, Indiana State)

C-USA has three (UTEP, Charlotte and Western Kentucky)

The Mountain West with two (UNLV and Wyoming).

WCC with two (Gonzaga and Santa Clara).

And I count appearances that were later vacated.

I’m going to guess the six A10 teams without an appearance:

Appearance: VCU, UMass, LaSalle, Duquesne, St. Bona, GMU, Fordham, St. Joe’s

No appearance: Richmond, URI, Davidson, Dayton, St. Louis, GW

Going back and forth with Dayton and St. Joe’s!

I'm not looking at the list as I type but ...

Dayton has a Final Four appearance and Fordham does not. You got the others. Well done.

Dayton was one I should have known because a lot of midwestern teams were making strong runs back in the day. That said, Fordham also had very strong teams way back as well. Those two and St. Joe's were the three I was down to and I just figured Fordham probably made a Final 4 back in the 40's or 50's.

Can anyone guess a team that made a Final 4 that is no longer D1? I only know of two.

Fordham was never a basketball power. In their entire history they have only won 1 NCAAT game and 5 NIT games, almost all first rounders.

Just going by what I read regarding NYC teams in the mid 20th century. Fordham is included with CCNY, NYU, LIU, St. John's, and Manhattan.

Many years ago, I compiled the records of 32 major college Catholic independents in basketball from 1948-1972. Fordham was #22 on that list (365-264).

The top four by winning percentage were Dayton, St. Bonaventure, Holy Cross, and Villanova. The bottom four were Canisius, Creighton, Georgetown, and Loyola-New Orleans, who dropped out of D-I in 1972.

(04-14-2021 04:12 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Many years ago, I compiled the records of 32 major college Catholic independents in basketball from 1948-1972. Fordham was #22 on that list (365-264).

The top four by winning percentage were Dayton, St. Bonaventure, Holy Cross, and Villanova. The bottom four were Canisius, Creighton, Georgetown, and Loyola-New Orleans, who dropped out of D-I in 1972.

I’d be interested in seeing that list. Sounds pretty cool.