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(04-11-2021 09:27 PM)BrooklynRocket Wrote:  I think it will come down to Martin and Gates.

I don't think Bryce Drew will have any interest and Archie will likely find the risk-to-reward ratio too great and wait for a better job to open up later.

Better job? Uh, a coach that just got fired for sucking hard (despite all the talent and resources at IU) would be lucky to land at a school like UC. Bryce Drew sucked at Vanderbilt (despite tons of 4 and 5-star talent) and ended up at Grand Canyon... and that's how these things usually go.

A mid-major school (UTEP, EMU, etc.) will pick up Archie and probably have a lot of success with him until he leaves for a P5 job in a few years. There are better jobs than UC out there, but they aren't calling for Archie Miller until he redeems himself at a mid-major.

(04-11-2021 11:33 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  

(04-11-2021 09:27 PM)BrooklynRocket Wrote:  I think it will come down to Martin and Gates.

I don't think Bryce Drew will have any interest and Archie will likely find the risk-to-reward ratio too great and wait for a better job to open up later.

Better job? Uh, a coach that just got fired for sucking hard (despite all the talent and resources at IU) would be lucky to land at a school like UC. Bryce Drew sucked at Vanderbilt (despite tons of 4 and 5-star talent) and ended up at Grand Canyon... and that's how these things usually go.

A mid-major school (UTEP, EMU, etc.) will pick up Archie and probably have a lot of success with him until he leaves for a P5 job in a few years. There are better jobs than UC out there, but they aren't calling for Archie Miller until he redeems himself at a mid-major.

Any semi-established HC is going to need all of a few minutes to read into how Brannen's firing went down and have red flags go up all over the place about taking on the job.

If I'm Bryce Drew, I'm not leaving GC with their wealth of resources and potential after ONE season to put out the dumpster fire in Clifton.

And yeah, Archie Miller probably isn't going to coach another blue blood any time soon, but I think he lands a gig at a high mid-major or low high-major - even if he has to wait a little while for the right opening. It's not like he's strapped for cash. It sounds like he's taking a hard look at UC right now - and my guess is that he eventually backs off.

Ahhh... the Cincinnati self loathe rears it's ugly head again.

Everybody with half a brain knows Brannen got canned because he sucked. His perceived treatment by UC is unique to the situation. As it had been said by others before, if Brannen had a shred of honor he would have resigned and left town quietly with a negotiated settlement that UC would have been more than happy to do. Let's give credit where it's due, Tubberville did.

But no, he had to turn it into a pi$$ing match and any potential coach worth having will recognize what's going on.

(04-12-2021 06:33 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Ahhh... the Cincinnati self loathe rears it's ugly head again.

Everybody with half a brain knows Brannen got canned because he sucked. His perceived treatment by UC is unique to the situation. As it had been said by others before, if Brannen had a shred of honor he would have resigned and left town quietly with a negotiated settlement that UC would have been more than happy to do. Let's give credit where it's due, Tubberville did.

But no, he had to turn it into a pi$$ing match and any potential coach worth having will recognize what's going on.

An honorable organization upon deciding it had made a mistake would have lived up to the deal it made and terminated Brannen and paid what the contract required and not started a publicly announced "Investigation". A coaching Salem Witch Hunt.

"UC great and floor leader for the most successful Bearcat teams ever enjoys a triumphant return to Clifton as head coach." Sound like a plausible headline for this week?

Oh, that was probably someone's headline for the late Tony Yates return in 1983.

Fast forward 38 years as the UC Athletic Director, according to media reports, again ponders hiring a former player to return the program to glory.

I think Martin is a very credible candidate and has earned the opportunity, building his resume after a successful playing career then toiling long for a future Hall of Fame head coach. While he never was forced into an interim head coaching role, as Fickell was at OSU, there are certainly similarities in their career paths and the loyalty both men have demonstrated to the respective schools and head coaches. And he certainly would have a number of advantages in rebuilding that weren't available to Tony who took the job and had to recruit to an antiquated campus, a small, unusable Armory-Fieldhouse, and overall inferior athletic department facilities, even by 1983 standards.

Hiring Martin is not without risk. He's never been a high, middle, or low major head coach. He will run a program with maybe a $7 million budget; have to hire and manage personnel--assistants and staff. He will be in the media spotlight day one as the face of the program. And expectations, reasonably, will be quite high. I think he's up to the task. I thought Brannen was too. The real risk factor is if Martin isn't successful separation can become all the more acrimonious with a member of the family involved--the Bearcat family--former teammates, other players, and fans all taking sides.

It appears from the outside looking in that Cunningham moved far too slowly to remove Brannen, but we don't know all the facts. While we as fans want a coach hired in the next ten minutes, it behooves Cunningham to take some time with this decision. It will likely determine how long he survives as A.D.

(04-12-2021 07:10 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 06:33 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Ahhh... the Cincinnati self loathe rears it's ugly head again.

Everybody with half a brain knows Brannen got canned because he sucked. His perceived treatment by UC is unique to the situation. As it had been said by others before, if Brannen had a shred of honor he would have resigned and left town quietly with a negotiated settlement that UC would have been more than happy to do. Let's give credit where it's due, Tubberville did.

But no, he had to turn it into a pi$$ing match and any potential coach worth having will recognize what's going on.

An honorable organization upon deciding it had made a mistake would have lived up to the deal it made and terminated Brannen and paid what the contract required and not started a publicly announced "Investigation". A coaching Salem Witch Hunt.

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If Brannen has any character he will resign on getting back.

I guess we know who the stalker is

I really am not excited about Martin or Gates, and all the talk seems to have focused on those two guys. Not sure what others see to get excited but they basically have the same resume as CJB and Martin's resume is actually less impressive. Its funny that so many people felt that CJB missed a step coming from NKU to UC, and people are getting excited about a guy that seems like he would skip 2 steps in becoming UC's head coach.

(04-12-2021 09:07 AM)Banter Wrote:  I really am not excited about Martin or Gates, and all the talk seems to have focused on those two guys. Not sure what others see to get excited but they basically have the same resume as CJB and Martin's resume is actually less impressive. Its funny that so many people felt that CJB missed a step coming from NKU to UC, and people are getting excited about a guy that seems like he would skip 2 steps in becoming UC's head coach.

I am not excited about either of those options. Resume’s aren’t great. The big differences will be the “it” factor. The charismatic leadership that makes you want to go all in. If you can find that that then the resume doesn’t matter as much as you most likely just picked the next big time coach.

(04-12-2021 09:07 AM)Banter Wrote:  I really am not excited about Martin or Gates, and all the talk seems to have focused on those two guys. Not sure what others see to get excited but they basically have the same resume as CJB and Martin's resume is actually less impressive. Its funny that so many people felt that CJB missed a step coming from NKU to UC, and people are getting excited about a guy that seems like he would skip 2 steps in becoming UC's head coach.

Yeah, I've always thought the idea that Brannen skipped a step was silly. He was an assistant at a high major, then was successful at a smaller school (you can make the argument for NKU being either low-major or mid-major) in our region. His resume was almost identical to Huggins and Cronin. Lack of experience wasn't the issue with Brannen IMO. His personality and lack of ability to connect to the players he recruited were the issues.

(04-12-2021 09:07 AM)Banter Wrote:  I really am not excited about Martin or Gates, and all the talk seems to have focused on those two guys. Not sure what others see to get excited but they basically have the same resume as CJB and Martin's resume is actually less impressive. Its funny that so many people felt that CJB missed a step coming from NKU to UC, and people are getting excited about a guy that seems like he would skip 2 steps in becoming UC's head coach.

The "skipped a step" criticism of Brannen was always a bad one. He had a very impressive Mid/low major resume. It compared favorably to Huggins/Cronin for example (better in some ways, not as good in others).

There is no magic formula to finding a great coach.
Roy Williams was the second assistant to Dean Smith when he was hired by Kansas.

Izzo an assistant with Michigan State (MSU wasn't exactly elite at the time) when he was promoted to head coach.

Mark Few was an assistant at Gonzaga.

Coach K was moderately successful as the Head Coach at Army.

Scott Drew was the Son and assistant to a career coach at Valpo, then had one season as Valpo's head coach before being hired at Baylor.

Enfield had two seasons at Florida Gulf Coast (and one awesome run) before USC hired him.

Chris Beard coached 1 season at Arkansas Little Rock when Texas tech hired him.

There is no magic formula. Just go get the guy.

(04-12-2021 09:15 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 09:07 AM)Banter Wrote:  I really am not excited about Martin or Gates, and all the talk seems to have focused on those two guys. Not sure what others see to get excited but they basically have the same resume as CJB and Martin's resume is actually less impressive. Its funny that so many people felt that CJB missed a step coming from NKU to UC, and people are getting excited about a guy that seems like he would skip 2 steps in becoming UC's head coach.

Yeah, I've always thought the idea that Brannen skipped a step was silly. He was an assistant at a high major, then was successful at a smaller school (you can make the argument for NKU being either low-major or mid-major) in our region. His resume was almost identical to Huggins and Cronin. Lack of experience wasn't the issue with Brannen IMO. His personality and lack of ability to connect to the players he recruited were the issues.

One huge red flag on Brannen’s resume was that he was an assistant for a staff that was fired at Alabama. Cronin worked for Huggins and Pitino who are basically legends despite their personal flaws that removed them from their jobs. The staff Brannen worked for got fired because they extremely mediocre.

I think people are lukewarm on Martin because deep down some people realize that Huggs doesn't have an impressive record of grooming/mentoring assistants that become successful head coaches during his 40 years of being a head coach.

I’d be fine with Martin if he had the resume or we were forced to make a high risk gamble hire. He doesn’t and we aren’t.

(04-12-2021 09:43 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I’d be fine with Martin if he had the resume or we were forced to make a high risk gamble hire. He doesn’t and we aren’t.

+1

He'd be a great hire for Miami...of Ohio

Why are people so impressed with Dennis Gates?

Sure, he went 19-8 at Cleveland State this year. But that's the only impressive thing on his resume.

He was 0-4 this year against teams outside the Horizon League. One of the losses was by 55 points to an Ohio team that finished 5th in the MAC.

He's only been head coach for 2 years. His first year he was 11-21.

He's been on three separate coaching staffs that got fired soon after he left. California (05-07, head coach fired in '08), Northern Illinois (07-09, head coach fired in '11), and Nevada (09-11, head coach fired in '15 after never making the NCAA tournament in 6 years).

Is he a guy who is a lot more impressive than his resume suggests? Cause he doesn't have the resume.

Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned Jon Jakus. His resume is very strong - worked as an assistant under both head coaches in the NCAA championship game this year, has head coaching experience with a professional European team and USA basketball, and spent 4 years as a Cincinnati-area high school coach.

Is anyone in the media or on twitter talking about Jon Jakus?

(04-12-2021 06:13 AM)BrooklynRocket Wrote:  

(04-11-2021 11:33 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  

(04-11-2021 09:27 PM)BrooklynRocket Wrote:  I think it will come down to Martin and Gates.

I don't think Bryce Drew will have any interest and Archie will likely find the risk-to-reward ratio too great and wait for a better job to open up later.

Better job? Uh, a coach that just got fired for sucking hard (despite all the talent and resources at IU) would be lucky to land at a school like UC. Bryce Drew sucked at Vanderbilt (despite tons of 4 and 5-star talent) and ended up at Grand Canyon... and that's how these things usually go.

A mid-major school (UTEP, EMU, etc.) will pick up Archie and probably have a lot of success with him until he leaves for a P5 job in a few years. There are better jobs than UC out there, but they aren't calling for Archie Miller until he redeems himself at a mid-major.

Any semi-established HC is going to need all of a few minutes to read into how Brannen's firing went down and have red flags go up all over the place about taking on the job.

If I'm Bryce Drew, I'm not leaving GC with their wealth of resources and potential after ONE season to put out the dumpster fire in Clifton.

And yeah, Archie Miller probably isn't going to coach another blue blood any time soon, but I think he lands a gig at a high mid-major or low high-major - even if he has to wait a little while for the right opening. It's not like he's strapped for cash. It sounds like he's taking a hard look at UC right now - and my guess is that he eventually backs off.

Yep. All the stuff I saw put Archie at the top of our list. Now, nada. It seems pretty clear he didn't get the answers he wanted to hear from or about our AD and the current situation.

(04-12-2021 06:33 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Ahhh... the Cincinnati self loathe rears it's ugly head again.

Everybody with half a brain knows Brannen got canned because he sucked. His perceived treatment by UC is unique to the situation. As it had been said by others before, if Brannen had a shred of honor he would have resigned and left town quietly with a negotiated settlement that UC would have been more than happy to do. Let's give credit where it's due, Tubberville did.

But no, he had to turn it into a pi$$ing match and any potential coach worth having will recognize what's going on.

And you think they are going to side with UC? Somebody will take the job of course but it won't be somebody who turned down other options at the level of our program.

(04-12-2021 10:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Why are people so impressed with Dennis Gates?

Sure, he went 19-8 at Cleveland State this year. But that's the only impressive thing on his resume.

He was 0-4 this year against teams outside the Horizon League. One of the losses was by 55 points to an Ohio team that finished 5th in the MAC.

He's only been head coach for 2 years. His first year he was 11-21.

He's been on three separate coaching staffs that got fired soon after he left. California (05-07, head coach fired in '08), Northern Illinois (07-09, head coach fired in '11), and Nevada (09-11, head coach fired in '15 after never making the NCAA tournament in 6 years).

Is he a guy who is a lot more impressive than his resume suggests? Cause he doesn't have the resume.

I'm with you on this, though he did have a very good run as an assistant at Florida State. As a young coach you don't always luck into finding a good staff, and at a certain point you just need a job, any job to learn and grow.

That said some of my friends who are deep into college basketball say that Gates is very much a motivational coach, and not so much an X's and O's guy. They commented that his offensive game plan seemed very uninspiring.