(01-14-2021 08:35 AM)Dannyboy Wrote:  It’s about having a good system in place and bringing in people who fit the system, not the other way around. CLF has built a culture. We can lose a person and replace them with someone else who fits the culture and we’re fine. That applies to coaches and players.

Yeah, obviously it's not good to lose both coordinators at once. But this is a thread about program continuity. And as far as I can tell, we're currently experiencing the best 3/4 year stretch of success + continuity in program history. Which is why I think this is silly.



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(01-14-2021 11:08 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Yeah, obviously it's not good to lose both coordinators at once. But this is a thread about program continuity. And as far as I can tell, we're currently experiencing the best 3/4 year stretch of success + continuity in program history. Which is why I think this is silly.

Thank you for your critique and observation: how senseless this thread. In the future I will forgo these inane type posts and I apologize for offending anyone’s intelligence.

I viewed Coach Fickell as the tiller and the position coaches as the rudder. Both are paramount to successfully pilot the ship.

Oops. There I go again with a silly analogy. Sorry.

(01-14-2021 05:23 PM)cpawstoney Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 11:08 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Yeah, obviously it's not good to lose both coordinators at once. But this is a thread about program continuity. And as far as I can tell, we're currently experiencing the best 3/4 year stretch of success + continuity in program history. Which is why I think this is silly.

Thank you for your critique and observation: how senseless this thread. In the future I will forgo these inane type posts and I apologize for offending anyone’s intelligence.

I viewed Coach Fickell as the tiller and the position coaches as the rudder. Both are paramount to successfully pilot the ship.

Oops. There I go again with a silly analogy. Sorry.

It was a legit Q. It brought some interesting conversation but sometimes we just need to be more Supportive of a different viewpoints. Sometimes the comments are a little bit harsh. Not necessarily in this particular thread.

Look, don't take it personally. Every single offseason, as soon as the games stop, we start getting these threads that overreact to every single crumb of news that comes out over the next 8 months. It's completely fair to be concerned about losing Denbrock and Freeman. I just think it's absurd to think that their departures are somehow indicative of a lack of continuity within the program, especially when you consider how long most of our assistants have stuck around during this run of success.

To-date, Coach Fick has turned down overtures from Louisville, Florida State, WVU, etc. and straight up turned down the offer from Michigan State. That's just remarkably rare at this level. And I feel like it should be the first topic of conversation when discussing continuity.

(01-15-2021 12:08 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Look, don't take it personally. Every single offseason, as soon as the games stop, we start getting these threads that overreact to every single crumb of news that comes out over the next 8 months. It's completely fair to be concerned about losing Denbrock and Freeman. I just think it's absurd to think that their departures are somehow indicative of a lack of continuity within the program, especially when you consider how long most of our assistants have stuck around during this run of success.

To-date, Coach Fick has turned down overtures from Louisville, Florida State, WVU, etc. and straight up turned down the offer from Michigan State. That's just remarkably rare at this level. And I feel like it should be the first topic of conversation when discussing continuity.

Agree, I get a kick out of the Enquirer article today on the new commitment and portraying the recruiting as continuing thru a "rocky" time. I read a comment from a national writer recently who said college football fans at 99% of the programs are all looking for a new offensive coordinator every year.

Hell, at this point Saban is basically proving he can win every year with a suicide squad of revolving has-beens on his staff. I don't think Fick is happy to replace anyone, but he's made great hires at almost every step of the way. No reason to think this will be different.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I saw this on the other board and it illustrates why I found this topic to be silly:

(01-27-2021 12:27 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Not to beat a dead horse, but I saw this on the other board and it illustrates why I found this topic to be silly:

Including Manny Diaz in there is laughable...but still, the point remains. All of these coaches left for what they thought were greener pastures and EVERY ONE OF THEM WAS FIRED (with the exception of the three that will be fired within the next year or two). You have to wonder if that extra $400,000 after taxes for 3-4 years is worth not having the job security they would've had staying? Luke Fickell making $3M+/year for life here at UC is looking like a smart cookie now. The only coach in that group right now who has made anything from their move last is Matt Rhule, and even he may be feeling the heat with another year like this one in Carolina.

Almost everyone of those coaches left for a strange cultural fit too. Willie Taggert to Oregon being the strangest among them.

Most of those programs were struggling when those guys were hired. It’s the trade off on the gamble to be able to turn a program around in a conference with a lot of big fish in it. If it works, bless you, if not, you normally get generational money on the way out the door.

(01-27-2021 12:31 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(01-27-2021 12:27 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Not to beat a dead horse, but I saw this on the other board and it illustrates why I found this topic to be silly:

Including Manny Diaz in there is laughable...but still, the point remains. All of these coaches left for what they thought were greener pastures and EVERY ONE OF THEM WAS FIRED (with the exception of the three that will be fired within the next year or two). You have to wonder if that extra $400,000 after taxes for 3-4 years is worth not having the job security they would've had staying? Luke Fickell making $3M+/year for life here at UC is looking like a smart cookie now. The only coach in that group right now who has made anything from their move last is Matt Rhule, and even he may be feeling the heat with another year like this one in Carolina.

Reads like a list of miserable coaches with very happy agents.

(01-27-2021 12:36 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Most of those programs were struggling when those guys were hired. It’s the trade off on the gamble to be able to turn a program around in a conference with a lot of big fish in it. If it works, bless you, if not, you normally get generational money on the way out the door.

I have to think about this for a little. Butch's buyout at Tennessee was 8.26 million. He made about 4 million a year while there by there end, compared to about 1.4 million at UC (times are different now).

At Bama he was making about as much as I do as a grad assistant.

So, I mean, leaving for Tennessee probably netted him about 15-20 million more than he would've made at UC in that same time frame.

That's a pretty hard deal to pass up. But for coaches now, who make generational money to begin with, I think it's pretty reasonable to think that holding out for 3 or 4 years is a decent bet to make on onself to continue their coaching career at a high level.

Butch has some cash now but he's starting all over again at the bottom. Given the competitiveness of some of these guys, I bet that's gotta sting.

$20 million. You answered your own question.

Right, but for someone like Fickell I think there's an argument to be made for turning it down for a few seasons until you find the perfect fit. BK has long since passed that threshold at ND. Does that happen if he leaves for, I dunno, somewhere like Arkansas in 2008? Or is he back at Grand Valley St now with 20 million in his pockets?

Good problem to have though.

Luke is making, what, $3.4 million per year? He'd better be pretty damn sure he'll be happy at a new job before leaving. He pretty much has it made here. Less than two hours from home, loved by the fan base and donors, has a program culture/identity, and can recruit and win here.

Every situation is different. Fickell is making millions with job security, a great fit for his family etc etc all the reasons we all know.

It’s safe to say there’s no imminent reason to jump ship. Most coaches who end up making poor choices move on after a one off fluke season or when they’ve plateaued and they need to strike while the irons hot. Or when there’s scandals to get out ahead of.

He’s in a great spot to be as picky as he wants to be. Hopefully he waits many more years for a home run

Let's give our program some credit too gents. We've had constant coaching turnover for going on what, nearly two decades now? And yet, we continue to be a solid program desired by coaches despite all that. I believe what happened with Fick is we married the perfect fit together of a coach and a program not named a blue blood. There's a reason Fick hasn't left for some of the P5 jobs that have come up - he's got a good thing going in a strong brand of a program with great recruiting opportunities. I also wonder do we attract a guy like Fick without all the investments our university has made in terms of the stadium renovations, the practice bubble, and other athletic facilities? In other words, credit be given to big dollar investments that may have been questioned to justify at the time they were done have paid off with the exception of joining a big boy conference. The latter is still possible and our brand has never been brighter on the national stage of relevance. Anyone talking about Boise St these days? Heck, how about UCF for that matter? They're talking about Cincinnati. The road to the championship runs through Cincinnati.

(01-27-2021 01:27 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  Every situation is different. Fickell is making millions with job security, a great fit for his family etc etc all the reasons we all know.

It’s safe to say there’s no imminent reason to jump ship. Most coaches who end up making poor choices move on after a one off fluke season or when they’ve plateaued and they need to strike while the irons hot. Or when there’s scandals to get out ahead of.

He’s in a great spot to be as picky as he wants to be. Hopefully he waits many more years for a home run

Don't forget, these coaches are just like a player who is deciding to declare for the draft after their Junior year. One bad or mediocre season can lose you a ton of money (and opportunities). If someone came to me after my most productive year and offered to double my salary and all I had to do was relocate my family, but if I don't do as well next year I may not get that opportunity again, I probably wouldn't have to think too hard about it.

Also, don't underestimate the extra perks some of these bigger schools can offer that Fick or some of those other coaches may not have had at their disposal. For instance, use of a private plane.

"At Ohio State University, which leases one plane and partly owns another, football coach Urban Meyer and members of his family took 11 personal trips last school year, including a vacation in Florida, a weekend getaway to Cape Cod and a spring break in South Carolina. The university's cost: $120,000. Add Meyer's 15 recruiting trips in the same planes during that period, and the price tag jumps to more than $350,000."

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...ate-planes

(01-27-2021 02:16 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Let's give our program some credit too gents. We've had constant coaching turnover for going on what, nearly two decades now? And yet, we continue to be a solid program desired by coaches despite all that. I believe what happened with Fick is we married the perfect fit together of a coach and a program not named a blue blood. There's a reason Fick hasn't left for some of the P5 jobs that have come up - he's got a good thing going in a strong brand of a program with great recruiting opportunities. I also wonder do we attract a guy like Fick without all the investments our university has made in terms of the stadium renovations, the practice bubble, and other athletic facilities? In other words, credit be given to big dollar investments that may have been questioned to justify at the time they were done have paid off with the exception of joining a big boy conference. The latter is still possible and our brand has never been brighter on the national stage of relevance. Anyone talking about Boise St these days? Heck, how about UCF for that matter? They're talking about Cincinnati. The road to the championship runs through Cincinnati.

that's why we should be at the top of the realignment thing

(01-27-2021 02:16 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Let's give our program some credit too gents. We've had constant coaching turnover for going on what, nearly two decades now? And yet, we continue to be a solid program desired by coaches despite all that. I believe what happened with Fick is we married the perfect fit together of a coach and a program not named a blue blood. There's a reason Fick hasn't left for some of the P5 jobs that have come up - he's got a good thing going in a strong brand of a program with great recruiting opportunities. I also wonder do we attract a guy like Fick without all the investments our university has made in terms of the stadium renovations, the practice bubble, and other athletic facilities? In other words, credit be given to big dollar investments that may have been questioned to justify at the time they were done have paid off with the exception of joining a big boy conference. The latter is still possible and our brand has never been brighter on the national stage of relevance. Anyone talking about Boise St these days? Heck, how about UCF for that matter? They're talking about Cincinnati. The road to the championship runs through Cincinnati.

Slight correction: Other than Rick Minter, UC has been a revolving door of coaches since before I was born. Prior to CLF, the last great coach who had a chance to take UC to the promised land was Sid Gillman. His tenure was also relatively short. He was gone in ‘54 I believe.

I hope CLF stays here until he retires as a very old man. Given UC’s history with football coaches, if he leaves, I won’t be surprised in the least. It’s what I have come to expect.

BTW, prayers for you, your wife, and your family. I am going through the same thing presently except that I am the patient.