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David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #61
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 01:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  For Seattle to leave, there has to be a landing spot. Only options are WCC, Big West, and Big Sky. I don’t see the Big West taking SU. SU doesn’t improve the WCC, and to be fair, SU doesn’t really improve the Big West or Sky either. They would have to join the Big Sky, with them only being let in as a favor or something. Would still need to place some the baseball team and a few others elsewhere.

The only scenario in which I could see Seattle moving is if a second full Big Sky member in addition to SUU decides to leave, e.g. Northern Arizona to the WAC or Northern Colorado to the Summit (with football to the WAC). If that happened the Big Sky would be down to 9 members playing non-football sports and might want to bring in a 10th non-football school to round out schedules. Seattle would be a perfect fit in that regard. I'm pretty sure their baseball team could be placed elsewhere.
01-07-2021 02:32 PM
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LUSportsFan Offline
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Post: #62
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 02:25 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 11:57 AM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 11:05 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 10:42 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 09:43 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  Well, El Paso to Beaumont is an easy 830 mile drive. Just get on I-10. You don't even have turns.

The conference has been a western conference based in New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, and California. With Tarleton and UTRGV already in the leage, yes it creeps into Texas by adding more Texas schools.

Some of you also act like population centers in the west (which includes west Texas) are as close as Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC, New York, and Boston. Rather than being much more spread out the way they are.

I guess we just have different definitions of what "creeping" into a state means.

The Texas schools are still a lot closer than several of NMSU's recent conference mates like Idaho, San Jose State, and CSU-Bakersfield. They are also closer to NMSU than a lot of other schools that have been mentioned as possibilities.

Not necessarily directly tied to NMSU in the near future, but one possibilty for the conference would be to build on the success of SFA vs SHSU BOTPW. One way might be to use NRG as the site of something similar to the Lone Star Conference's Fall Football Festival in Dallas. Possibilities could be WAC teams vs SWAC teams or other competitions pitting conference members against each other at NRG like SFA and SHSU's game. SHSU, Lamar, and SFA are close enough to NRG for easy travel. Tarleton State is within a reasonable distance. Abilene Christian is a little farther, but would still be traveling shorter distances than they currently do in some cases.

Travel to Houston would be a little easier for Dixie State and Southern Utah than going on to Huntsville, Beaumont, or Nacogdoches. Something like that could also build conference interest in the Houston area.

I think the BOTPW should continue. I'm just wondering if there might be some more opportunities to increase conference exposure.
Pardon mu ignorance but what does BOTPW mean? I get the Board of Trustees part.

BOTPW is a common abbreviated name for the Battle of the Piney Woods annual football game between Sam Houston State and Stephen F. Austin. NRG Stadium in Houston has been its home since the 2010 season.

Link - Wikipedia page

Here's attendance since the 2011 season; not too bad for FCS games.

2011 - 25,083
2012 - 26,185
2013 - 26,213
2014 - 26,788
2015 - 26,990
2016 - 27,411
2017 - 26,792
2018 - 26,548
2019 - 24,008
01-07-2021 02:36 PM
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Foreverandever Offline
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Post: #63
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 01:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  For Seattle to leave, there has to be a landing spot. Only options are WCC, Big West, and Big Sky. I don’t see the Big West taking SU. SU doesn’t improve the WCC, and to be fair, SU doesn’t really improve the Big West or Sky either. They would have to join the Big Sky, with them only being let in as a favor or something. Would still need to place some the baseball team and a few others elsewhere.

Well then this actually begins to make a lot of sense and not just for particular schools. My guess there is at least one more Big Sky team they are talking to and trying to get to defect, with my bet being NAU for geography and program strength/stability, and someone else as a secret back up. Northern Colorado probably fits that bill for football only with the rest to the Summit which probably makes more sense for them and could happen regardless of other Big Sky movement.

In the end this might be the first realignment in a while that makes immediate geographical sense by everyone, especially if the WAC stays true to a southern west line up and Seattle flips to some sort of Big Sky conference built largely in the northwest.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2021 02:50 PM by Foreverandever.)
01-07-2021 02:48 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #64
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
Great news for the WAC. They pulled themselves from near extinction and are now raiding the SLC for members. Amazing turnaround.
01-07-2021 02:51 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #65
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 02:32 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 01:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  For Seattle to leave, there has to be a landing spot. Only options are WCC, Big West, and Big Sky. I don’t see the Big West taking SU. SU doesn’t improve the WCC, and to be fair, SU doesn’t really improve the Big West or Sky either. They would have to join the Big Sky, with them only being let in as a favor or something. Would still need to place some the baseball team and a few others elsewhere.

The only scenario in which I could see Seattle moving is if a second full Big Sky member in addition to SUU decides to leave, e.g. Northern Arizona to the WAC or Northern Colorado to the Summit (with football to the WAC). If that happened the Big Sky would be down to 9 members playing non-football sports and might want to bring in a 10th non-football school to round out schedules. Seattle would be a perfect fit in that regard. I'm pretty sure their baseball team could be placed elsewhere.

Agreed

As I've said before, Big Sky membership with Baseball affiliation with the WCC would be a nice fit for Seattle since WCC membership doesn't seem to be in the cards right now
01-07-2021 02:57 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #66
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
Northern Arizona makes the most sense. The geography of it is clear.

Also the weather...play in mostly relatively warm climes or play in the Northwest all year? Choose the less icy weather.

Also playing in front of more recruits in TX as opposed to their current lineup.

There are only 2 FBS schools in AZ so it's a state with growth potential.

Northern Arizona
Southern Utah
Dixie State
New Mexico State
UTRGV
Tarleton State
Abilene Christian
Stephen F. Austin
Sam Houston State
Lamar

Or I wonder if maybe UC-Davis would join up as well...
01-07-2021 03:21 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #67
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
Im really curious as the what the other 10 full members and 2 football affiliates of the Big Sky are thinking right now.

Is there anyone there that would be just a tad bit curious at joining this group with a Southwest profile and FBS aspirations?

UNC is a geographic outlier but they aren’t exactly FBS material—they are one of the weaker Big Sky schools

NAU is also an outlier and their program is a little better. Joining the WAC would put them right in the heart of the West Division.

My wildcard is Sacramento St. Flip the Hornets and you likely get the Aggies (UC Davis edition) and Mustangs too (at least their fb programs) it’s a 3 for the price of 1 deal!

Then you have the Montana’s, Weber St, and Idaho. They don’t fit the footprint put they are the stronger football programs.
01-07-2021 04:27 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #68
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 02:51 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Great news for the WAC. They pulled themselves from near extinction and are now raiding the SLC for members. Amazing turnaround.

This is not really the WAC raiding the SLC. It's a group of disaffected SLC schools appropriating the WAC for their own whims and desires.
01-07-2021 04:46 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 03:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Northern Arizona makes the most sense. The geography of it is clear.

Also the weather...play in mostly relatively warm climes or play in the Northwest all year? Choose the less icy weather.

Also playing in front of more recruits in TX as opposed to their current lineup.

There are only 2 FBS schools in AZ so it's a state with growth potential.

Northern Arizona
Southern Utah
Dixie State
New Mexico State
UTRGV
Tarleton State
Abilene Christian
Stephen F. Austin
Sam Houston State
Lamar

Or I wonder if maybe UC-Davis would join up as well...

Geographically, it makes some sense for NAU to join that group, but competitively (i.e., SOS), it's better to stay in the Big Sky, one of the strongest FCS conferences. I could see them going either way.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2021 04:55 PM by Nerdlinger.)
01-07-2021 04:48 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 03:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Northern Arizona makes the most sense. The geography of it is clear.

Also the weather...play in mostly relatively warm climes or play in the Northwest all year? Choose the less icy weather.

The winter weather at NAU resembles the winter weather at Weber State or Idaho State far more closely than the winter weather at Lamar or UTRGV.

Also, the driving distance from NAU to WAC schools, especially the ones in Texas as well as Seattle, is greater than the distance from NAU to Montana.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2021 05:00 PM by Wedge.)
01-07-2021 04:56 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #71
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 03:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Northern Arizona makes the most sense. The geography of it is clear.

Also the weather...play in mostly relatively warm climes or play in the Northwest all year? Choose the less icy weather.

FWIW, Flagstaff (Northern Arizona) is in no way like most places in Arizona. It is almost 7,000 feet above sea level.

In the summer, when it is 110 degrees in Phoenix and Tucson, it is a mild 80-85 in Flagstaff. In the winter, it is cold and often windy, highs in the 40s with nighttime lows in the teens. Flagstaff gets over 8 feet of snow on average during the winter.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2021 05:06 PM by quo vadis.)
01-07-2021 04:59 PM
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Post: #72
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
Hard to believe Flagstaff is just 2 hours from Phoenix but 30 degrees away in weather.
01-07-2021 05:09 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 05:09 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Hard to believe Flagstaff is just 2 hours from Phoenix but 30 degrees away in weather.

I have driven from Phoenix to Flagstaff in both the summer and winter, and if you keep your window down you can almost feel the weather changing every few minutes. 110 degrees becomes 80 degrees in July and 70 degrees becomes 40 degrees in January. You elevate over 6,000 feet in just 140 miles.

It is a breathtaking drive too, as you pass by and over many hills dotted with saguaro cactus, boulders and canyons, etc.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2021 05:19 PM by quo vadis.)
01-07-2021 05:17 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #74
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 05:17 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 05:09 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Hard to believe Flagstaff is just 2 hours from Phoenix but 30 degrees away in weather.

I have driven from Phoenix to Flagstaff in both the summer and winter, and if you keep your window down you can almost feel the weather changing minute by minute. 110 degrees becomes 80 degrees in July and 70 degrees becomes 40 degrees in January. You elevate over 6,000 feet in just 140 miles.

It is a breathtaking drive too, as you pass by and over many hills dotted with saguaro cactus, boulders and canyons, etc.

I love that drive - done it hundreds of times.

Temperature drops on average 3 degrees per thousand feet of elevation, which usually holds true in the summer. In the winter, cold fronts from the Pacific Northwest tend to get not much further south than the Mogollon rim area, so the temperature gradient can be far higher. Biggest one day snowfall I personally witnessed in Flagstaff was 32"
01-07-2021 05:23 PM
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Post: #75
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 04:56 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 03:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Northern Arizona makes the most sense. The geography of it is clear.

Also the weather...play in mostly relatively warm climes or play in the Northwest all year? Choose the less icy weather.

The winter weather at NAU resembles the winter weather at Weber State or Idaho State far more closely than the winter weather at Lamar or UTRGV.

Also, the driving distance from NAU to WAC schools, especially the ones in Texas as well as Seattle, is greater than the distance from NAU to Montana.

(01-07-2021 04:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 03:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Northern Arizona makes the most sense. The geography of it is clear.

Also the weather...play in mostly relatively warm climes or play in the Northwest all year? Choose the less icy weather.

FWIW, Flagstaff (Northern Arizona) is in no way like most places in Arizona. It is almost 7,000 feet above sea level.

In the summer, when it is 110 degrees in Phoenix and Tucson, it is a mild 80-85 in Flagstaff. In the winter, it is cold and often windy, highs in the 40s with nighttime lows in the teens. Flagstaff gets over 8 feet of snow on average during the winter.

I've actually been to Flagstaff many years ago. Nice little community, beautiful, and I was shocked to find that Arizona wasn't just one big desert with cacti everywhere. The TV of my youth lied to me!...lol

Yes, it is cold and snowy there, but that's not what I'm talking about. Most athletes would rather live and play in more comfortable climates. Flagstaff isn't 100% perfectly ideal for that, but if you're an athlete from a warm climate then would you rather play closer to home or spend all your time traveling to climates that are even colder than your own campus?

NAU can't alter Flagstaff's weather, but they can make themselves more appealing to a higher percentage of athletes by cutting themselves away from the Northwestern teams.

Some of the travel distances wouldn't be ideal, but the Big Sky isn't remotely ideal either. I've spent a lot of time driving through much of the American West. It's a lot of beautiful territory, but some of the distances are deceiving. A lot of those mountainous roads are not quick to travel on...even some of the interstates. The Southwest and especially TX is very different. Most of it is flat and it leaves plenty of space to route highways around the most difficult terrain. Actually, smaller airports are more prevalent in the West because the large cities are few are far between, but that doesn't mean everyone drives everywhere.

Not to mention, Southern Utah and Dixie State would be fairly short trips. New Mexico State isn't really that far. By comparison, Ogden(home of Weber State is an 8 and half hour drive. Las Cruces is 7 and a half. Seattle is a long trip, but so are Idaho, Montana, Montana State, and Northern Colorado.

We'll see if a couple of the CA schools go for the WAC and then it will really be a slam dunk.

The TX schools wouldn't be a short trip, but the travel distances are mostly a wash.
01-07-2021 05:37 PM
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Post: #76
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 04:46 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 02:51 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Great news for the WAC. They pulled themselves from near extinction and are now raiding the SLC for members. Amazing turnaround.

This is not really the WAC raiding the SLC. It's a group of disaffected SLC schools appropriating the WAC for their own whims and desires.

Call it what it is, a raid.
01-07-2021 05:38 PM
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Post: #77
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 04:56 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 03:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Northern Arizona makes the most sense. The geography of it is clear.

Also the weather...play in mostly relatively warm climes or play in the Northwest all year? Choose the less icy weather.

The winter weather at NAU resembles the winter weather at Weber State or Idaho State far more closely than the winter weather at Lamar or UTRGV.

Also, the driving distance from NAU to WAC schools, especially the ones in Texas as well as Seattle, is greater than the distance from NAU to Montana.

For football that's an issue, with so many schools in Texas a trip or two will happen every year unless they are at ten and split into divisions then they might knock it down to one every year.

In other sports divisional play will mostly keep them out of Texas. With them, GCU, NMST, SFA, etc an at large bid from there is possible and a giant killer seed should be in reach most years.

If the football keeps its play off spot a weaker sos won't matter as much if they think they can dominate it.

It seems it will matter what they value for the Athletic Department, I'm not sure that FBS is possible but if it's on their dream board it might be hard to turn down an even exchange with the potential for big time football.
01-07-2021 05:45 PM
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RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 05:37 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 04:56 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 03:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Northern Arizona makes the most sense. The geography of it is clear.

Also the weather...play in mostly relatively warm climes or play in the Northwest all year? Choose the less icy weather.

The winter weather at NAU resembles the winter weather at Weber State or Idaho State far more closely than the winter weather at Lamar or UTRGV.

Also, the driving distance from NAU to WAC schools, especially the ones in Texas as well as Seattle, is greater than the distance from NAU to Montana.

(01-07-2021 04:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 03:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Northern Arizona makes the most sense. The geography of it is clear.

Also the weather...play in mostly relatively warm climes or play in the Northwest all year? Choose the less icy weather.

FWIW, Flagstaff (Northern Arizona) is in no way like most places in Arizona. It is almost 7,000 feet above sea level.

In the summer, when it is 110 degrees in Phoenix and Tucson, it is a mild 80-85 in Flagstaff. In the winter, it is cold and often windy, highs in the 40s with nighttime lows in the teens. Flagstaff gets over 8 feet of snow on average during the winter.

I've actually been to Flagstaff many years ago. Nice little community, beautiful, and I was shocked to find that Arizona wasn't just one big desert with cacti everywhere. The TV of my youth lied to me!...lol

Yes, it is cold and snowy there, but that's not what I'm talking about. Most athletes would rather live and play in more comfortable climates. Flagstaff isn't 100% perfectly ideal for that, but if you're an athlete from a warm climate then would you rather play closer to home or spend all your time traveling to climates that are even colder than your own campus?

NAU can't alter Flagstaff's weather, but they can make themselves more appealing to a higher percentage of athletes by cutting themselves away from the Northwestern teams.

Some of the travel distances wouldn't be ideal, but the Big Sky isn't remotely ideal either. I've spent a lot of time driving through much of the American West. It's a lot of beautiful territory, but some of the distances are deceiving. A lot of those mountainous roads are not quick to travel on...even some of the interstates. The Southwest and especially TX is very different. Most of it is flat and it leaves plenty of space to route highways around the most difficult terrain. Actually, smaller airports are more prevalent in the West because the large cities are few are far between, but that doesn't mean everyone drives everywhere.

Not to mention, Southern Utah and Dixie State would be fairly short trips. New Mexico State isn't really that far. By comparison, Ogden(home of Weber State is an 8 and half hour drive. Las Cruces is 7 and a half. Seattle is a long trip, but so are Idaho, Montana, Montana State, and Northern Colorado.

We'll see if a couple of the CA schools go for the WAC and then it will really be a slam dunk.

The TX schools wouldn't be a short trip, but the travel distances are mostly a wash.

Over the years NAU has recruited SoCal pretty well, so not sure that climate argument holds up. I'm not sure which conference would be more beneficial for NAU on the recruiting trail as they've been competitive in multiple sports in the BSC, but having regular games in PHX and the Inland Empire (CBU) wouldn't hurt. They'd no doubt pull some talent from TX as well.

That said they've been in the BSC all these years, I think it would be a hard sell to see them wanting to move now. But stranger things have happened...
01-07-2021 05:46 PM
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RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 05:38 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 04:46 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 02:51 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Great news for the WAC. They pulled themselves from near extinction and are now raiding the SLC for members. Amazing turnaround.

This is not really the WAC raiding the SLC. It's a group of disaffected SLC schools appropriating the WAC for their own whims and desires.

Call it what it is, a raid.

That suggests the WAC is the party in power, whereas it's actually the defecting schools that are more powerful.
01-07-2021 05:46 PM
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RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-07-2021 05:38 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 04:46 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 02:51 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Great news for the WAC. They pulled themselves from near extinction and are now raiding the SLC for members. Amazing turnaround.

This is not really the WAC raiding the SLC. It's a group of disaffected SLC schools appropriating the WAC for their own whims and desires.

Call it what it is, a raid.

I'd say it was a self kidnapping, the WAC drove up in the van and the SLC kids jumped in as soon as they could get the side door open.
01-07-2021 05:47 PM
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