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David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
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Todor Offline
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Post: #21
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 06:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m curious to see what the final pieces are that are yet to be set in place.

I imagine them at they’d strongly desire some Big Sky programs. I’m also curious what the Big Sky thinks of this. I mean SUU wasn’t exactly a Big Sky kingpin but now they and their D2 neighbor Dixie St are talking jumping to the next level. Is the Big Sky concerned that they could suffer additional defections?

I’m also wondering if SUU, Dixie St, Tarleton, SF Austin, SHSU, Lamar, and ACU all think they can pull off FBS in a decade or if it’s wishful thinking.

Whether any of them ever achieve FBS or not remains to be seen, but I suspect most (or maybe just 3) will be gone from the WAC before it ever happens. I think the WAC will be FBS without them however.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2021 07:21 PM by Todor.)
01-06-2021 07:20 PM
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Scoochpooch1 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 05:51 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Gotta give credit to the WAC and its leadership. It's not long ago that a lot of folks here viewed the WAC as having one foot in the grave and referred to it as the conference of misfit toys. I'm particularly glad for NMSU which was the last school from the old FBS WAC left behind when everyone else bailed from 2010 to 2014 and has persevered through the difficult conference rebuilding process ever since.

Maybe, depends on the way you look at it. There should be less teams in Div 1, not more. Now they are adding more crap. I guess you in the David St boat of wanting 7000 schools in D1.
01-06-2021 07:27 PM
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Scoochpooch1 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 07:17 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 06:54 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 01:20 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  So NM State remain FBS Indy and essentially hangs int he league hoping it someday achieves FBS status?

Of course, just another school that needs to keep up with the Joneses to the detriment of their students, etc.

We've always been FBS, so we are the Joneses in this situation fyi... Just sayin'. Riddle me this--- Who do you think pays the athletic bills in Las Cruces?

I guess it all comes down to perspective. This is not being part of the Joneses. Past conferences:
Border (1931–1961)
MVC (1971–1982)
Big West (1983–2000)
Sun Belt (2001–2004)
WAC (2005–2012)
Sun Belt (2014–2017)

This is D1 telling you to drop down. Football has never been relevant and basketball is pretty good. Academics are awful. Losing money holding onto a useless football team is not the way to run a "university".
01-06-2021 07:30 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #24
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 07:20 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 06:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m curious to see what the final pieces are that are yet to be set in place.

I imagine them at they’d strongly desire some Big Sky programs. I’m also curious what the Big Sky thinks of this. I mean SUU wasn’t exactly a Big Sky kingpin but now they and their D2 neighbor Dixie St are talking jumping to the next level. Is the Big Sky concerned that they could suffer additional defections?

I’m also wondering if SUU, Dixie St, Tarleton, SF Austin, SHSU, Lamar, and ACU all think they can pull off FBS in a decade or if it’s wishful thinking.

Whether any of them ever achieve FBS or not remains to be seen, but I suspect most (or maybe just 3) will be gone from the WAC before it ever happens. I think the WAC will be FBS without them however.

What exactly do you mean?
01-06-2021 07:31 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #25
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 07:27 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 05:51 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Gotta give credit to the WAC and its leadership. It's not long ago that a lot of folks here viewed the WAC as having one foot in the grave and referred to it as the conference of misfit toys. I'm particularly glad for NMSU which was the last school from the old FBS WAC left behind when everyone else bailed from 2010 to 2014 and has persevered through the difficult conference rebuilding process ever since.

Maybe, depends on the way you look at it. There should be less teams in Div 1, not more. Now they are adding more crap. I guess you in the David St boat of wanting 7000 schools in D1.

I'm lauding them for coming up with a strategy that allows them to expand with existing D1 schools rather than adding more D2 move-ups. That's the exact opposite of "adding more crap" (although I could argue that a few of the past WAC D2 move-ups have been competing just fine at the D1 level). So no, I'm not wanting 7,000 schools in D1.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2021 09:36 PM by HawaiiMongoose.)
01-06-2021 07:50 PM
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RobtheAggie Offline
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Post: #26
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 07:30 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  This is D1 telling you to drop down. Football has never been relevant and basketball is pretty good. Academics are awful. Losing money holding onto a useless football team is not the way to run a "university".

Normally I do not rise to the bait, but
USNEWS - 241
Top Public Schools - 117
Best Undergraduate Engineering - 145
World Rankings for Ag and Forestry - 321

Not the best, but not Awful.
01-06-2021 08:07 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #27
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 07:30 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 07:17 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 06:54 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 01:20 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  So NM State remain FBS Indy and essentially hangs int he league hoping it someday achieves FBS status?

Of course, just another school that needs to keep up with the Joneses to the detriment of their students, etc.

We've always been FBS, so we are the Joneses in this situation fyi... Just sayin'. Riddle me this--- Who do you think pays the athletic bills in Las Cruces?

I guess it all comes down to perspective. This is not being part of the Joneses. Past conferences:
Border (1931–1961)
MVC (1971–1982)
Big West (1983–2000)
Sun Belt (2001–2004)
WAC (2005–2012)
Sun Belt (2014–2017)

This is D1 telling you to drop down. Football has never been relevant and basketball is pretty good. Academics are awful. Losing money holding onto a useless football team is not the way to run a "university".

Football makes money. But if they didn't, unless you're a NM taxpayer, its not your money to lose.
01-06-2021 08:21 PM
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MinerInWisconsin Offline
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Post: #28
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 01:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 01:13 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 01:02 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  +2 for the thread title. DavidSt, as soon as you pop in here, I'll congratulate you with some points as well. Pretty cool to see the WAC coming back together.

Check out this insane rambling from 2012
Georgetown
Villanova
VCU
Richmond
Gonzaga
And basically every other college were WAC “targets”

LMAO at Indiana State wanting FBS!

https://davids-davidsthoughts.blogspot.com/2012/

He listed dozens of schools. Marquette was not one of them. At least he was spot-on about that.

Thats too bad. Always enjoyed the early season football game between Wi and Marquette.
01-06-2021 08:25 PM
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Post: #29
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 01:20 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  So NM State remain FBS Indy and essentially hangs int he league hoping it someday achieves FBS status?

NMSU is hoping for some G5 realignment so a spot opens up for them in MWC, SBC or CUSA.

In the meantime they hang in the WAC and Independent FBS football. They depend on rivalry games with New Mexico and UTEP, which means they have to stay FBS.
01-06-2021 08:43 PM
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Post: #30
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 05:55 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 05:51 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Gotta give credit to the WAC and its leadership. It's not long ago that a lot of folks here viewed the WAC as having one foot in the grave and referred to it as the conference of misfit toys. I'm particularly glad for NMSU which was the last school from the old FBS WAC left behind when everyone else bailed from 2010 to 2014 and has persevered through the difficult conference rebuilding process ever since.

While it's an improvement to have schools wanting to leave current D1 conferences to join the WAC, I would not say the conference is dramatically improved by these additions. Also, regarding the appeal to the newcomers, it's not that the WAC is a destination conference, but rather one that is weak enough to be co-opted for their own purposes.

That is a better way to put it.
01-06-2021 10:20 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #31
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
When does Chicago State get the boot?
01-06-2021 10:26 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #32
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
What a sad sorry state of affairs for the WAC.

An FCS conference located mostly in Texas? Seriously?
01-06-2021 10:34 PM
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Post: #33
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 10:34 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  What a sad sorry state of affairs for the WAC.

An FCS conference located mostly in Texas? Seriously?

Way better than an Oly sports conference struggling to survive with outlier members in Kansas City (now gone), Bakersfield (now gone), Chicago (on the way out), and South Dakota (otherwise might have been given serious consideration).

Heck, at one point the WAC was seriously considering adding New Jersey Institute of Technology to save its basketball auto bid. Thankfully those bad old days are gone.
01-06-2021 10:53 PM
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Post: #34
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 08:43 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 01:20 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  So NM State remain FBS Indy and essentially hangs int he league hoping it someday achieves FBS status?

NMSU is hoping for some G5 realignment so a spot opens up for them in MWC, SBC or CUSA.

In the meantime they hang in the WAC and Independent FBS football. They depend on rivalry games with New Mexico and UTEP, which means they have to stay FBS.

Its hard to project what the situation will be 10-15 years out. These additions to the WAC at least serve NMSU's short term needs by making the conference more regional.

If these Texas schools do move up to FBS that could make for a situation in the future where they could combine with CUSA Texas schools at some point.

I'm sure NMSU long term would like MWC or CUSA West if available.
01-06-2021 10:58 PM
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Post: #35
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 10:26 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  When does Chicago State get the boot?

I believe their contract expires June 30, 2022

This assumes after the initial 4 year contract expired June 30th, 2018 it was renewed on rolling 2 year or 4 year basis, as seems to be standard.

I rather doubt the FBS goal ever comes to fruition. Those are the "out" years. Hurd is 70 or 71 years old now. He's not going to be commissioner in few years. I'm actually surprised he hasn't yet retired.
01-06-2021 10:59 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #36
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 10:58 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 08:43 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 01:20 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  So NM State remain FBS Indy and essentially hangs int he league hoping it someday achieves FBS status?

NMSU is hoping for some G5 realignment so a spot opens up for them in MWC, SBC or CUSA.

In the meantime they hang in the WAC and Independent FBS football. They depend on rivalry games with New Mexico and UTEP, which means they have to stay FBS.

Its hard to project what the situation will be 10-15 years out. These additions to the WAC at least serve NMSU's short term needs by making the conference more regional.

If these Texas schools do move up to FBS that could make for a situation in the future where they could combine with CUSA Texas schools at some point.

I'm sure NMSU long term would like MWC or CUSA West if available.

Unless UNM and UTEP find new conferences, which I don't anticipate, its not going to happen.

As far as the additions helping NMSU by being "more regional," only Abilene would help. The others are no closer than Utah Valley, and father than 5 other current members. I wouldn't count having 3 more schools who are around 12 hours away as a short-term need for us lol.

Where did you come up with this "regional" theory? Wow. I mean, its as if you've never seen a map.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2021 11:32 PM by Todor.)
01-06-2021 11:19 PM
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Foreverandever Online
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Post: #37
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
So, I would assume Northern Arizona will be a target?

How long does Seattle hold on?

This looks like NMST being proactive and covering all contingencies. If they remain in the WAC it will be a regionalized western conference that creeps in to Texas. Not a bad set up, good recruiting grounds, more suitability at least temporarily. If they get an invite from some sort of shake up they move up from a stronger position. If they have to fall back to FCS for whatever reason, they have a solid landing spot with a built in play off spot.

Basketball should be solid, probably similar to the Missouri Valley, maybe a little lower. Good seeds.should be possible and the league should have enough solid teams to not fluctuate too much from year.to year.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2021 11:27 PM by Foreverandever.)
01-06-2021 11:26 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #38
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 11:26 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  So, I would assume Northern Arizona will be a target?

How long does Seattle hold on?

This looks like NMST being proactive and covering all contingencies. If they remain in the WAC it will be a regionalized western conference that creeps in to Texas. Not a bad set up, good recruiting grounds, more suitability at least temporarily. If they get an invite from some sort of shake up they move up from a stronger position. If they have to fall back to FCS for whatever reason, they have a solid landing spot with a built in play off spot.

Basketball should be solid, probably similar to the Missouri Valley, maybe a little lower. Good seeds.should be possible and the league should have enough solid teams to not fluctuate too much from year.to year.

Why would Seattle leave a conference? To go where?
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2021 11:37 PM by Todor.)
01-06-2021 11:36 PM
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Post: #39
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-06-2021 11:19 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 10:58 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 08:43 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 01:20 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  So NM State remain FBS Indy and essentially hangs int he league hoping it someday achieves FBS status?

NMSU is hoping for some G5 realignment so a spot opens up for them in MWC, SBC or CUSA.

In the meantime they hang in the WAC and Independent FBS football. They depend on rivalry games with New Mexico and UTEP, which means they have to stay FBS.

Its hard to project what the situation will be 10-15 years out. These additions to the WAC at least serve NMSU's short term needs by making the conference more regional.

If these Texas schools do move up to FBS that could make for a situation in the future where they could combine with CUSA Texas schools at some point.

I'm sure NMSU long term would like MWC or CUSA West if available.

Unless UNM and UTEP find new conferences, which I don't anticipate, its not going to happen.

As far as the additions helping NMSU by being "more regional," only Abilene would help. The others are no closer than Utah Valley, and father than 5 other current members. I wouldn't count having 3 more schools who are around 12 hours away as a short-term need for us lol.

Where did you come up with this "regional" theory? Wow. I mean, its as if you've never seen a map.

Regional compared to Chicago St and Seattle is what I meant.
01-07-2021 06:32 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #40
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
I wouldn’t be so worried about Seattle. They have some money and are near a major air hub and they are at least a Western school, albeit far more Pacific Northwest than the rest of the membership.

Chicago St is broke and their athletic programs are in shambles. For the health of the rest of the conference it’s best to cut them loose and let them find a more appropriate level of athletic competition rather if than continuing the fantasy that they run a D1 outfit.
01-07-2021 07:12 AM
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