I was listening to the Modena spokesman explain the effective rate on radio. Seems they are counting it very simplistically. Basically, only 5.5 percent of their vaccine group caught covid so they are saying that the vaccine is 94.5% effective. The problem with that is that it's almost a certainty that not everyone was exposed to the virus anyway. So the actual efficacy of the vaccine is probably significantly lower.

(11-16-2020 12:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 11:38 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 11:14 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  I'm not saying I want to take it. I'm undecided at this point and leaning towards no.

However, folks that are a flat out "I'm not taking that vaccine." Well, they must be prepared for the 2020 ramifications of such a decisions. This isn't the 1950s. The economy was never shut down due to polio. Americans were never told they couldn't enjoy Thanksgiving because of polio. Kids weren't held back from going and asking for candy on Halloween because of polio. A certain political party wasn't bullying anyone who disagreed with them and labeling them as "conspiracy theorists" because of polio.

I have no doubt they (big gov't and their media thugs) will make it nearly an impossibility to enjoy everyday life and normal American freedoms if you don't get the vaccine. They'll come up with a way to know who has or hasn't taken the vaccine. Most likely scenario is probably some sort of card to carry around showing you took it so you have access to stores, restaurants and other public places.

The Democrats already know the Trump administration was quickly making progress with companies to get to a vaccine. That's not just happening in America, it's happening world wide. What's the next level? What's the end game the democrats can shoot for now? It's always control. They want to be able to control the populace because that's how they maintain power. So, I guarantee the democrats are ALREADY hard at work behind the scenes coming up with a way that Americans can "prove" they had a vaccine. They'll use the media to push it. They'll use the media to cultivate fear by pushing the vaccine takers to fear the non-vaccine takers (which would obviously on it's face be illogical anyways). They'll use the media to "allow" public shaming and bullying (just like they did with masks).

Stay at least one step ahead of stupid out there my friends.

Bullshiit. This is still America, for now. I've never taken a flu vaccine and I won't take a covid vaccine. If they want to come after me here I am. If you want to consider that stupid, then go ahead and be a sheep.

I will not comply. With their vaccines, with their cards, with their gun control, none of it. I was born free, I've live free all my life, and I'll die free, one way or the other.

And I won't go alone.

They will enforce it for schools.

Agree, and we all saw how much the majority of American public are into trying to teach their kids themselves since March. Just saying. A vast majority of the population will comply without question.

(11-16-2020 10:29 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 09:59 AM)VA49er Wrote:  That's great and all but they are going to have to figure out how to ship these mRNA vaccines. Not sure how many places have that cold storage facilities, especially rural locations.

This one can go in regular refrigeration apparently. As in any food delivery truck.

The Pfizer one had that issue, this one seems a big improvement already.

Thanks! That's interesting in that they are both mRNA based vaccines. I guess this one still needs to be kept frozen, just not as frozen.

(11-16-2020 12:50 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I was listening to the Modena spokesman explain the effective rate on radio. Seems they are counting it very simplistically. Basically, only 5.5 percent of their vaccine group caught covid so they are saying that the vaccine is 94.5% effective. The problem with that is that it's almost a certainty that not everyone was exposed to the virus anyway. So the actual efficacy of the vaccine is probably significantly lower.

From what I read they measured the rate of effectiveness based on a comparison to the placebo group (since there would otherwise be no way to measure it's effectiveness without directly exposing the participants, including the placebo group to the virus). Half of the 30,000 group got the vaccine, half got the placebo, and at the end of the trial a total of 95 of the participants had tested positive for COVID and exhibited at least two symptoms. 90 of the 95 (or 94.7%) that had tested positive were in the placebo group. It's not a perfect study, and I'm sure they also had to have a way to measure potential exposure so that it was balanced between the two groups as best they could. But, with the high number of participants is likely relatively accurate.

(11-16-2020 01:40 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 10:29 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 09:59 AM)VA49er Wrote:  That's great and all but they are going to have to figure out how to ship these mRNA vaccines. Not sure how many places have that cold storage facilities, especially rural locations.

This one can go in regular refrigeration apparently. As in any food delivery truck.

The Pfizer one had that issue, this one seems a big improvement already.

Thanks! That's interesting in that they are both mRNA based vaccines. I guess this one still needs to be kept frozen, just not as frozen.

Yes, and that's not unique to mRNA vaccines, there are also a number existing vaccines that need to be frozen, including chickenpox, so there is already an existing supply chain and pharmacies already have freezers that can be used to store the Moderna vaccine. The Pfizer vaccine needs to be stored much colder than the existing freezers allow. I've read that they have developed a storage container utilizing dry ice specifically for this purpose, but still I can imagine the logistics will be nightmare.

(11-16-2020 03:24 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 12:50 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I was listening to the Modena spokesman explain the effective rate on radio. Seems they are counting it very simplistically. Basically, only 5.5 percent of their vaccine group caught covid so they are saying that the vaccine is 94.5% effective. The problem with that is that it's almost a certainty that not everyone was exposed to the virus anyway. So the actual efficacy of the vaccine is probably significantly lower.

From what I read they measured the rate of effectiveness based on a comparison to the placebo group (since there would otherwise be no way to measure it's effectiveness without directly exposing the participants, including the placebo group to the virus). Half of the 30,000 group got the vaccine, half got the placebo, and at the end of the trial a total of 95 of the participants had tested positive for COVID and exhibited at least two symptoms. 90 of the 95 (or 94.7%) that had tested positive were in the placebo group. It's not a perfect study, and I'm sure they also had to have a way to measure potential exposure so that it was balanced between the two groups as best they could. But, with the high number of participants is likely relatively accurate.

I believe you are right. Think the spokesperson just said it inartfully on the radio

(11-16-2020 06:37 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 03:24 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 12:50 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I was listening to the Modena spokesman explain the effective rate on radio. Seems they are counting it very simplistically. Basically, only 5.5 percent of their vaccine group caught covid so they are saying that the vaccine is 94.5% effective. The problem with that is that it's almost a certainty that not everyone was exposed to the virus anyway. So the actual efficacy of the vaccine is probably significantly lower.

From what I read they measured the rate of effectiveness based on a comparison to the placebo group (since there would otherwise be no way to measure it's effectiveness without directly exposing the participants, including the placebo group to the virus). Half of the 30,000 group got the vaccine, half got the placebo, and at the end of the trial a total of 95 of the participants had tested positive for COVID and exhibited at least two symptoms. 90 of the 95 (or 94.7%) that had tested positive were in the placebo group. It's not a perfect study, and I'm sure they also had to have a way to measure potential exposure so that it was balanced between the two groups as best they could. But, with the high number of participants is likely relatively accurate.

I believe you are right. Think the spokesperson just said it inartfully on the radio

Additional information I heard later is that a total of 11 required hospitalization- all from control/ placebo group. So based on the study there is some evidence that past prevention it could also decrease the severity of symptoms.

(11-16-2020 12:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 12:19 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 12:15 PM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  Mind boggling that people would vote for government like that. I dont need a governor, mayor, POTUS or anyone else telling me who i can have in my home and when they can be there, when and where i can eat and shop, etc. Not over some virus that 95%+ will recover from.

Don't forget, less than 3.5% of the population have caught this out-of-control massive all-consuming pandemic illness.

Which means, among other things, that it is not a pandemic.

Uh, A Pandemic has nothing to do with spread in the US. A Pandemic indicates that a Virus is spreading from person to person on all major continents in the world.

(11-16-2020 03:24 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 12:50 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I was listening to the Modena spokesman explain the effective rate on radio. Seems they are counting it very simplistically. Basically, only 5.5 percent of their vaccine group caught covid so they are saying that the vaccine is 94.5% effective. The problem with that is that it's almost a certainty that not everyone was exposed to the virus anyway. So the actual efficacy of the vaccine is probably significantly lower.

From what I read they measured the rate of effectiveness based on a comparison to the placebo group (since there would otherwise be no way to measure it's effectiveness without directly exposing the participants, including the placebo group to the virus). Half of the 30,000 group got the vaccine, half got the placebo, and at the end of the trial a total of 95 of the participants had tested positive for COVID and exhibited at least two symptoms. 90 of the 95 (or 94.7%) that had tested positive were in the placebo group. It's not a perfect study, and I'm sure they also had to have a way to measure potential exposure so that it was balanced between the two groups as best they could. But, with the high number of participants is likely relatively accurate.

This is correct. They got the 94.5 percent because of the 95 confirmed cases of Covid within their study, 90 came from the placebo group and 5 from the actual vaccine group.

Does that mean the shot will finish with a 95 percent eficacy? No. The final number will likely decrease a little between this study and the final numbers. In a size this small, there's no way to guarantee equal viral exposure to the control and vaccine group. That being said, the high number and lack of a severe case indicates the vaccine is effective.

I don't normally get a flu shot (Flu shot is around 40 percent effective, so its likely best for someone who is immune compromised) but I anticipate I will get a Covid Vaccine, simply so I can put a lot of this past year behind me. I may not have done it for a 50 percent effective vaccine, but 95 percent is close to what the MMR vaccine was for Measles, and that vaccine appears to work.

(11-16-2020 11:14 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  I'm not saying I want to take it. I'm undecided at this point and leaning towards no.

However, folks that are a flat out "I'm not taking that vaccine." Well, they must be prepared for the 2020 ramifications of such a decisions. This isn't the 1950s. The economy was never shut down due to polio. Americans were never told they couldn't enjoy Thanksgiving because of polio. Kids weren't held back from going and asking for candy on Halloween because of polio. A certain political party wasn't bullying anyone who disagreed with them and labeling them as "conspiracy theorists" because of polio.

I have no doubt they (big gov't and their media thugs) will make it nearly an impossibility to enjoy everyday life and normal American freedoms if you don't get the vaccine. They'll come up with a way to know who has or hasn't taken the vaccine. Most likely scenario is probably some sort of card to carry around showing you took it so you have access to stores, restaurants and other public places.

The Democrats already know the Trump administration was quickly making progress with companies to get to a vaccine. That's not just happening in America, it's happening world wide. What's the next level? What's the end game the democrats can shoot for now? It's always control. They want to be able to control the populace because that's how they maintain power. So, I guarantee the democrats are ALREADY hard at work behind the scenes coming up with a way that Americans can "prove" they had a vaccine. They'll use the media to push it. They'll use the media to cultivate fear by pushing the vaccine takers to fear the non-vaccine takers (which would obviously on it's face be illogical anyways). They'll use the media to "allow" public shaming and bullying (just like they did with masks).

Stay at least one step ahead of stupid out there my friends.

Lets clarify something. Constitutionally, the United States Government can not require anyone to be vaccinated for any disease. There are certain jobs that can require vaccinations (I work in Health Care, so I have to get a Hep B shot and stay up to date on tetanus as an example) Schools can require certain vaccinations for enrollment etc

A country can require proof of vaccinations for a non citizen to enter.

These so called "Immunity passports or vaccine certificates" may very well appear in Europe in 2021. It is highly unlikely it ever appears here. Though I would not be shocked if certain schools try and add it to their vaccination requirements eventually. (Though they can't do that until its available for general public use, which is July at best)

(11-16-2020 09:54 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Lets clarify something. Constitutionally, the United States Government can not require anyone to be vaccinated for any disease. There are certain jobs that can require vaccinations (I work in Health Care, so I have to get a Hep B shot and stay up to date on tetanus as an example) Schools can require certain vaccinations for enrollment etc

A country can require proof of vaccinations for a non citizen to enter.

These so called "Immunity passports or vaccine certificates" may very well appear in Europe in 2021. It is highly unlikely it ever appears here. Though I would not be shocked if certain schools try and add it to their vaccination requirements eventually. (Though they can't do that until its available for general public use, which is July at best)

The Dems have no respect for the constitution. Therefore, anything is possible with these overbearing wannabe dictators.