(11-21-2020 08:23 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: Not sure what point you are trying to make. Should Trump be denied access to the courts? Or what?
That anyone who continues to support the theory that this election was stolen are doing so based solely on the ramblings of a pseudo-authoritarian because there is not sufficient evidence to suggest widespread voter fraud.
Maybe so, maybe not, but don’t they have that right - even in Democratic America (so far)?
Quote:Also, that the Trump campaign is filing legal challenges that are wasting everyone’s time and eroding trust in the election process. As that judge said, the accusations they are making are severe, and they are not providing evidence of similar nature.
Well, at least they are going through the time honored legal route, rather than fabricating evidence and sponsoring witch hunts as your side did. So Trump’s team is to be despised for doing it correctly?
Quote:Trump should not be denied access to the courts, but there should be some punishment for bringing frivolous lawsuits. I’m not the only person with that opinion.
I think there is, but shouldn’t frivolous be determined by the courts, not CNN?
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2020 11:13 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
Bottom line (look it up, Lad) here is that the people who manufactured evidence, entrapped people, impeached on frivolous grounds and created a four year witch hunt all in the the service of unseating a legitimately elected President are ill-suited to the the ones saying STFU. The whole situation reeks of hypocrisy.
I think Trump lost, largely because of the lies and innuendo presented falsely by the the DNC and MSM that weak minded people swallowed hook line and sinker. But he did lose - probably. But the current situation is like the fans of one team saying to the other - Don’t throw that Hail Mary. Don’t try the multiple laterals. Don’t ask for a video review. You lost, even though the clock has not run out. Just trudge off the field with your heads down, while we do our victory dances. How unsportsmanlike of y’all.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2020 11:11 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
This is when politics is so frustrating. We are all on the same page about the most important aspect of this issue - there isn’t sufficient evidence to suggest widespread fraud in a way that will change the outcome of this election.
But the partisan nature of the discussion makes it sound like we are miles apart.
(11-22-2020 11:16 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: This is when politics is so frustrating. We are all on the same page about the most important aspect of this issue - there isn’t sufficient evidence to suggest widespread fraud in a way that will change the outcome of this election.
But the partisan nature of the discussion makes it sound like we are miles apart.
First, it is funny that we arent the one calling Trump 'semi-authoritarian' for fully pursuing what he has an absolute right to pursue.
If pursuing a remedy in court is the hallmark of *your* explicit and unequivocal rendition of being 'semi-authoritarian', then wtf does that say of every fing lawsuit against every single Executive Order for the last 4 years?
Second, the first issue is that there probably isnt enough fraud to turn the election. The more important second issue is the clamor of how 'authoritarian' it is to pursue a result to the fullest. Trump is a fighter -- live with it. And, honestly, a big fat fing middle finger to the shitbirds that 4 years ago clamored that Russiagate crapola in order to weaken and illegitimize an election who now suddenly first turn to the STFU we need unity on this, then when the guy they **** on in that manner turns the same about on their cause, they go historonic on it. Like you have just done here previously.
Goose, gander, pot, kettle, black. Its funny as **** from this perspective about that absolute rank and feckless hypocrisy from that quarter.
That is a big issue that you are seemingly not so aware of, for some reason.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2020 12:34 PM by tanqtonic.)
(11-22-2020 11:16 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: This is when politics is so frustrating. We are all on the same page about the most important aspect of this issue - there isn’t sufficient evidence to suggest widespread fraud in a way that will change the outcome of this election.
But the partisan nature of the discussion makes it sound like we are miles apart.
Takes two to make it partisan.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2020 12:45 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
If Trump was to concede, I would be Ok with that. Back to the football analogy, that would be like the team down 17 with 15 seconds left running out the clock.
If Trump wants to fight to the bitter end, that is also OK with me. His choice. I would have respected Hillary doing the same, but she choose to take a knee. Her choice.
Whether or not I think Trump’s actions will show widespread coordinated fraud is immaterial. He has the right to pursue it, and the Dems here and out in the world are lobbying him not to.
What I absolutely do not respect is the campaign of lies and innuendo (not just the Russia Probe, but tax-gate and the continued innuendo about profit taking, the obstructionism to everything he did while publicly asking for bipartisanship, the fake impeachment, and on and on and on) that the Democrats chose to follow and that Lad and others have defended. It has been a campaign unworthy of American values. It continues to this day, and probably will be continued in a purge reminiscent of Stalin’s purges, albeit bloodless, as the Left pursues revenge.
(11-22-2020 11:16 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: This is when politics is so frustrating. We are all on the same page about the most important aspect of this issue - there isn’t sufficient evidence to suggest widespread fraud in a way that will change the outcome of this election.
But the partisan nature of the discussion makes it sound like we are miles apart.
First, it is funny that we arent the one calling Trump 'semi-authoritarian' for fully pursuing what he has an absolute right to pursue.
If pursuing a remedy in court is the hallmark of *your* explicit and unequivocal rendition of being 'semi-authoritarian', then wtf does that say of every fing lawsuit against every single Executive Order for the last 4 years?
Second, the first issue is that there probably isnt enough fraud to turn the election. The more important second issue is the clamor of how 'authoritarian' it is to pursue a result to the fullest. Trump is a fighter -- live with it. And, honestly, a big fat fing middle finger to the shitbirds that 4 years ago clamored that Russiagate crapola in order to weaken and illegitimize an election who now suddenly first turn to the STFU we need unity on this, then when the guy they **** on in that manner turns the same about on their cause, they go historonic on it. Like you have just done here previously.
Goose, gander, pot, kettle, black. Its funny as **** from this perspective about that absolute rank and feckless hypocrisy from that quarter.
That is a big issue that you are seemingly not so aware of, for some reason.
Based on the outcomes of the court cases, which are overwhelmingly going against Trump, it seems like he and his campaign are reaching a bit too far. And when you're doing that with something so sensitive and important as potentially overturning election results.
But this is a common refrain, which boils down to something being legal being above criticism...
I just wish the campaign had actual evidence of smoke - a meeting between the Biden campaign and a relevant party, a meeting between a campaign surrogate and a relevant party, an email expressing excitement from the campaign about changing votes, etc. It would add some actual weight to what Trump is doing.
Right now, he is exhibiting a more childish reaction than the anti-Trump protestors y'all admonished recently.
Quote:One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens. That has not happened," Brann added. "Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence."
"In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more," the judge wrote." At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which relief may be granted."
Quote:"Quite frankly, the conduct of the President's legal team has been a national embarrassment," he said, singling out Trump attorney Sidney Powell's accusations against Georgia GOP Gov. Brian Kemp...
"This is outrageous conduct by any lawyer," Christie said Sunday, noting Trump's attorneys have levied wild accusations in public but have not, so far, raised them in court, where there are consequences for providing false information.
"They allege fraud outside the courtroom, but when they go inside the courtroom, they don't plead fraud and they don't argue fraud," he said.
"Listen," Christie concluded, "I have been a supporter of the President's. I voted for him twice, but elections have consequences, and we cannot continue to act as if something happened here that didn't happen."
"If you are unwilling to come forward and present the evidence, it must mean the evidence doesn't exist," he went on. "The country is what has to matter the most. As much as I'm a strong Republican and I love my party, it's the country that has to come first."
Quote:One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens. That has not happened," Brann added. "Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence."
"In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more," the judge wrote." At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which relief may be granted."
Quote:"Quite frankly, the conduct of the President's legal team has been a national embarrassment," he said, singling out Trump attorney Sidney Powell's accusations against Georgia GOP Gov. Brian Kemp...
"This is outrageous conduct by any lawyer," Christie said Sunday, noting Trump's attorneys have levied wild accusations in public but have not, so far, raised them in court, where there are consequences for providing false information.
"They allege fraud outside the courtroom, but when they go inside the courtroom, they don't plead fraud and they don't argue fraud," he said.
"Listen," Christie concluded, "I have been a supporter of the President's. I voted for him twice, but elections have consequences, and we cannot continue to act as if something happened here that didn't happen."
"If you are unwilling to come forward and present the evidence, it must mean the evidence doesn't exist," he went on. "The country is what has to matter the most. As much as I'm a strong Republican and I love my party, it's the country that has to come first."
Yep, the ranks are closing in on Trump. With every tirade against a Republican elected official, he ironically sabotages whatever change he has of being the 2024 nominee...although I don't doubt he doesn't want to actually run in 2024, but just keep up the appearance that he does. Trump has a complete right to waste his (and his donors' money) however he pleases, but his prevention of Biden receiving security briefings is completely indefensible.
(11-22-2020 08:31 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: Trump has a complete right to waste his (and his donors' money) however he pleases, but his prevention of Biden receiving security briefings is completely indefensible.
How long do you think Biden could remember what he was told in such briefings?
As these separate lawsuits, all filed by different teams representing different types of fraud, different types of mistakes, different types of incompetence, different types of illegal procedures all wind their way through the lower court and start hitting the higher Appeals Courts, the different Supreme Court Justices will eventually have more to do with the cases themselves....ultimately, it is likely they will be consolidated into a Bush v. Gore type case before the US Supreme Court (I'd assume Trump v. Biden) that would be outcome-determinative. As we are really just getting started here, and there's a long way to go procedurally, it should be quite interesting to follow and watch the process unfold. Gotta get a new popcorn popper and some seasoning available for this winter..it will not go gently into that good night...
(11-22-2020 08:31 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: Trump has a complete right to waste his (and his donors' money) however he pleases, but his prevention of Biden receiving security briefings is completely indefensible.
How long do you think Biden could remember what he was told in such briefings?
Probably longer than Trump, given that Trump likely didn’t even pay attention since the pictures weren’t too interesting, haha.
(11-22-2020 11:16 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: This is when politics is so frustrating. We are all on the same page about the most important aspect of this issue - there isn’t sufficient evidence to suggest widespread fraud in a way that will change the outcome of this election.
But the partisan nature of the discussion makes it sound like we are miles apart.
First, it is funny that we arent the one calling Trump 'semi-authoritarian' for fully pursuing what he has an absolute right to pursue.
If pursuing a remedy in court is the hallmark of *your* explicit and unequivocal rendition of being 'semi-authoritarian', then wtf does that say of every fing lawsuit against every single Executive Order for the last 4 years?
Second, the first issue is that there probably isnt enough fraud to turn the election. The more important second issue is the clamor of how 'authoritarian' it is to pursue a result to the fullest. Trump is a fighter -- live with it. And, honestly, a big fat fing middle finger to the shitbirds that 4 years ago clamored that Russiagate crapola in order to weaken and illegitimize an election who now suddenly first turn to the STFU we need unity on this, then when the guy they **** on in that manner turns the same about on their cause, they go historonic on it. Like you have just done here previously.
Goose, gander, pot, kettle, black. Its funny as **** from this perspective about that absolute rank and feckless hypocrisy from that quarter.
That is a big issue that you are seemingly not so aware of, for some reason.
Based on the outcomes of the court cases, which are overwhelmingly going against Trump, it seems like he and his campaign are reaching a bit too far. And when you're doing that with something so sensitive and important as potentially overturning election results.
Again, your side opened that door in 2000 with Al Gore. Al Gore 2000, rigged voting machines 2004, Russian collusion 2016.
Every time in this century a Republican has won the office, the Democrats try their best to undermine it after the fact. Oh, and add the 'petition the electors after the vote' schtick in 2016 as well.
Now y'all have a dose of your own medicine and you dont like the taste. Boo fing hoo.
Quote:But this is a common refrain, which boils down to something being legal being above criticism...
No, it boils down to being astonished at the rank hypocrisy. over the last score years. Is it unseeming? Absolutely. But again, lad, you progressives should lace up those big boy pants and look at the history.
And yes, it is legal for Trump and other people associated with Trump (as the Trump campaign is only plaintiff in 2 lawsuits I believe) to do this. So your response is that they should be denied that process? Coming from the guy that blindly supported every aspect of every sordid angle of the Russiagate shitshow, your cries are pretty ******* hollow to these ears, to be honest. Ose nose the baddie Trumpies are suing and keep suing, nevermind the hues and cries of every progressive in creation screaming 'collusion' at every turn for three years. Cry me a river.... lol....
Quote:Right now, he is exhibiting a more childish reaction than the anti-Trump protestors y'all admonished recently.
I would say you all need to grow up and actually acknowledge your alls part in the river of time that led to this. Amazingly, I havent seen any of that..... just crying and pouting on how evil bad Trump (still) is for pursuing his rights in the most aggressive manner possible. Again, lolz.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2020 10:01 PM by tanqtonic.)
(11-22-2020 08:31 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: Trump has a complete right to waste his (and his donors' money) however he pleases, but his prevention of Biden receiving security briefings is completely indefensible.
How long do you think Biden could remember what he was told in such briefings?
Probably longer than Trump, given that Trump likely didn’t even pay attention since the pictures weren’t too interesting, haha.
But Trump wouldnt leave a pool of slobber on the pics and on the desk.
CNN reported on Venezuela's ownership of Smartmatic/Sequoia...ne Dominion...back in 2006 under...Hugo Chavez! It must be true since it was on CNN, right Lefties?
This is priceless. I have to admit, when I heard Giuliani and Powell talking about Venezuela ties to the software, I thought, "Oh God, they just lost half the believers with this tangent." But as usual, Powell is rock solid in her claims. Any bets as to when YT will remove this video?
Smartmatic, the Electronic Voting Machine manufacturer whose machines are notorious for failures, is based in Venezuela. The Treasury Department, which is supposed to be the look into connections between sensitive US infrastructure and foreign interests has failed yet again to protect the American people. What is more important than the correctness of our Democracy?
"A potential Risk to the Democratic Process."--CNN
(11-22-2020 11:01 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: CNN reported on Venezuela's ownership of Smartmatic/Sequoia...ne Dominion...back in 2006 under...Hugo Chavez! It must be true since it was on CNN, right Lefties?
This is priceless. I have to admit, when I heard Giuliani and Powell talking about Venezuela ties to the software, I thought, "Oh God, they just lost half the believers with this tangent." But as usual, Powell is rock solid in her claims. Any bets as to when YT will remove this video?
Smartmatic, the Electronic Voting Machine manufacturer whose machines are notorious for failures, is based in Venezuela. The Treasury Department, which is supposed to be the look into connections between sensitive US infrastructure and foreign interests has failed yet again to protect the American people. What is more important than the correctness of our Democracy?
"A potential Risk to the Democratic Process."--CNN
Do tell.
If she was that rock solid, why did Trump fire her today?
(11-22-2020 11:01 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: CNN reported on Venezuela's ownership of Smartmatic/Sequoia...ne Dominion...back in 2006 under...Hugo Chavez! It must be true since it was on CNN, right Lefties?
This is priceless. I have to admit, when I heard Giuliani and Powell talking about Venezuela ties to the software, I thought, "Oh God, they just lost half the believers with this tangent." But as usual, Powell is rock solid in her claims. Any bets as to when YT will remove this video?
Smartmatic, the Electronic Voting Machine manufacturer whose machines are notorious for failures, is based in Venezuela. The Treasury Department, which is supposed to be the look into connections between sensitive US infrastructure and foreign interests has failed yet again to protect the American people. What is more important than the correctness of our Democracy?
"A potential Risk to the Democratic Process."--CNN
Do tell.
Quick Google about Smartmatic, the company highlighted in that CNN clip:
Quote: The claim that Smartmatic has software on Dominion voting machines is false. Smartmatic explains on its website here that Smartmatic and Dominion are competitors in the marketplace.
Samira Saba, communications director for Smartmatic, told Reuters via email: “Smartmatic has never owned any shares or had any financial stake in Dominion Voting Systems. Smartmatic has never provided Dominion Voting Systems with any software, hardware or other technology.”
Dominion Voting Systems, a company that supplies election technology, was used in some U.S. states and counties during this election ( http://www.dominionvoting.com/about/ , here ).
Saba confirmed that Smartmatic only provided technology and software to Los Angeles County for the 2020 Presidential election.
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2020 Presidential Election predictions
