When it comes to pollsters calling my house I troll them, tell them I'm voting Kayne.

(07-22-2020 12:16 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 10:52 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 04:33 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 12:18 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  A protest against both, and I get that.

But here, right now, it’s a binary choice unfortunately.
It’s either the Orange poo-flinging orangutan we know now, or someone my late Mother would have rekked in scrabble just two years ago as she succumbed to the Alz’s.

IMOH, there is no choice, perhaps sit this one out then whine and moan from the sidelines, or burn other people’s schit down to finally make Mommy proud of you. Other than that?

Sloe or the Drumpf. Last call. Last hand. All in. Who do you trust with your future and the football?

Amazingly easy choice for me.

A Biden presidency will be run by his Democrat-Socialist VP and/or cabinet. Ole Joe will basically be a figurehead.

Quit trying to convince me to vote for Biden! I picked Hawkins but I'm really not a fan of him at all. He's a Russia Gate turd and has the charisma of a wet fart. Still better than Biden though, no matter how much you guys try to pretend he's gonna be a Democratic Socialist.

You do realize if this country was to turn Socialist, it ain't all rainbows and puppy dogs.. Those in power will reap all the rewards while people like us wait on line for food.. The government will give us what they think we need to survive while they live in luxury. Jobs will disappear. But it won't matter, everyone will make the same. Price of gas will go sky high because of the Green New Deal, but you won't be able to afford a good horse, maybe an old nag.

I'm not sure where this originated, but I think it sums things up nicely:

Quote:You Can Vote Your Way Into Socialism,
But You Have To Shoot Your Way Out

The funny thing is that the EC is really not that big of a deal, about 25 states are "over represented" by one EV, about 10 are "under represented" by one EV, and about 15 are unaffected. So that's only a net +15 of imbalance. How many times has the EC been decided by 15 votes or less?

The real issue for dems is that their appeal is not national, just heavy favored in high population areas. They have a platform designed to appeal to a specific group and that group loves it. So they win the popular vote in big cities by a huge margin, but lose just about everywhere else by varying margins.

Lmao too funny. The biggest debt and deficit belong to trump. His socialism is far worse than what you guys are worried about. Cult45

(07-22-2020 05:15 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  When it comes to pollsters calling my house I troll them, tell them I'm voting Kayne.

I knew I wasn't the lone #sadist out there..

If a pollster called my arse, I'd have more fonzies than a bull in a 'China' store....

(07-23-2020 02:32 AM)gobluebigjon Wrote:  Lmao too funny. The biggest debt and deficit belong to trump. His socialism is far worse than what you guys are worried about. Cult45

You're correct. Dems used to be the same. In fact, just a couple of years ago I thought that the R's and D's were a Duopoly - 2 sides of the same coin. Sadly, the Dems fvcked it up and there is now a true difference. You idiots allowed Bernie to gain influence in your party. Now...you have a fvcked up party that is more than likely to split in a few years because the majority of the more traditional Dems don't realize yet how far left the progressives have taken the party.

(07-23-2020 02:32 AM)gobluebigjon Wrote:  Lmao too funny. The biggest debt and deficit belong to trump. His socialism is far worse than what you guys are worried about. Cult45

Can you show your work cause I'm pretty sure you're wrong....

(07-22-2020 12:16 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 10:52 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 04:33 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 12:18 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  A protest against both, and I get that.

But here, right now, it’s a binary choice unfortunately.
It’s either the Orange poo-flinging orangutan we know now, or someone my late Mother would have rekked in scrabble just two years ago as she succumbed to the Alz’s.

IMOH, there is no choice, perhaps sit this one out then whine and moan from the sidelines, or burn other people’s schit down to finally make Mommy proud of you. Other than that?

Sloe or the Drumpf. Last call. Last hand. All in. Who do you trust with your future and the football?

Amazingly easy choice for me.

A Biden presidency will be run by his Democrat-Socialist VP and/or cabinet. Ole Joe will basically be a figurehead.

Quit trying to convince me to vote for Biden! I picked Hawkins but I'm really not a fan of him at all. He's a Russia Gate turd and has the charisma of a wet fart. Still better than Biden though, no matter how much you guys try to pretend he's gonna be a Democratic Socialist.

You do realize if this country was to turn Socialist, it ain't all rainbows and puppy dogs.. Those in power will reap all the rewards while people like us wait on line for food.. The government will give us what they think we need to survive while they live in luxury. Jobs will disappear. But it won't matter, everyone will make the same. Price of gas will go sky high because of the Green New Deal, but you won't be able to afford a good horse, maybe an old nag.

Dude you are literally describing conditions in the US right now for 10's of millions of people. Food lines, jobs disappearing, the elites wealth growing exponentially.

(07-23-2020 07:21 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 12:16 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 10:52 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 04:33 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 12:18 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  A protest against both, and I get that.

But here, right now, it’s a binary choice unfortunately.
It’s either the Orange poo-flinging orangutan we know now, or someone my late Mother would have rekked in scrabble just two years ago as she succumbed to the Alz’s.

IMOH, there is no choice, perhaps sit this one out then whine and moan from the sidelines, or burn other people’s schit down to finally make Mommy proud of you. Other than that?

Sloe or the Drumpf. Last call. Last hand. All in. Who do you trust with your future and the football?

Amazingly easy choice for me.

A Biden presidency will be run by his Democrat-Socialist VP and/or cabinet. Ole Joe will basically be a figurehead.

Quit trying to convince me to vote for Biden! I picked Hawkins but I'm really not a fan of him at all. He's a Russia Gate turd and has the charisma of a wet fart. Still better than Biden though, no matter how much you guys try to pretend he's gonna be a Democratic Socialist.

You do realize if this country was to turn Socialist, it ain't all rainbows and puppy dogs.. Those in power will reap all the rewards while people like us wait on line for food.. The government will give us what they think we need to survive while they live in luxury. Jobs will disappear. But it won't matter, everyone will make the same. Price of gas will go sky high because of the Green New Deal, but you won't be able to afford a good horse, maybe an old nag.

Dude you are literally describing conditions in the US right now for 10's of millions of people. Food lines, jobs disappearing, the elites wealth growing exponentially.

Except today there is still a solid majority middle class. If you enact socialism, the track record is the majority will be waiting for the handouts while the small ruling elite reap all the benefits.

(07-23-2020 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:21 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 12:16 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 10:52 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 04:33 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  A Biden presidency will be run by his Democrat-Socialist VP and/or cabinet. Ole Joe will basically be a figurehead.

Quit trying to convince me to vote for Biden! I picked Hawkins but I'm really not a fan of him at all. He's a Russia Gate turd and has the charisma of a wet fart. Still better than Biden though, no matter how much you guys try to pretend he's gonna be a Democratic Socialist.

You do realize if this country was to turn Socialist, it ain't all rainbows and puppy dogs.. Those in power will reap all the rewards while people like us wait on line for food.. The government will give us what they think we need to survive while they live in luxury. Jobs will disappear. But it won't matter, everyone will make the same. Price of gas will go sky high because of the Green New Deal, but you won't be able to afford a good horse, maybe an old nag.

Dude you are literally describing conditions in the US right now for 10's of millions of people. Food lines, jobs disappearing, the elites wealth growing exponentially.

Except today there is still a solid majority middle class. If you enact socialism, the track record is the majority will be waiting for the handouts while the small ruling elite reap all the benefits.

We already have a small elite class reaping all the benefits.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...r-decades/

(07-23-2020 07:21 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 12:16 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 10:52 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 04:33 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 12:18 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  A protest against both, and I get that.

But here, right now, it’s a binary choice unfortunately.
It’s either the Orange poo-flinging orangutan we know now, or someone my late Mother would have rekked in scrabble just two years ago as she succumbed to the Alz’s.

IMOH, there is no choice, perhaps sit this one out then whine and moan from the sidelines, or burn other people’s schit down to finally make Mommy proud of you. Other than that?

Sloe or the Drumpf. Last call. Last hand. All in. Who do you trust with your future and the football?

Amazingly easy choice for me.

A Biden presidency will be run by his Democrat-Socialist VP and/or cabinet. Ole Joe will basically be a figurehead.

Quit trying to convince me to vote for Biden! I picked Hawkins but I'm really not a fan of him at all. He's a Russia Gate turd and has the charisma of a wet fart. Still better than Biden though, no matter how much you guys try to pretend he's gonna be a Democratic Socialist.

You do realize if this country was to turn Socialist, it ain't all rainbows and puppy dogs.. Those in power will reap all the rewards while people like us wait on line for food.. The government will give us what they think we need to survive while they live in luxury. Jobs will disappear. But it won't matter, everyone will make the same. Price of gas will go sky high because of the Green New Deal, but you won't be able to afford a good horse, maybe an old nag.

Dude you are literally describing conditions in the US right now for 10's of millions of people. Food lines, jobs disappearing, the elites wealth growing exponentially.

So you'd like to enact it for 90% of the population, yourself included. Great. If you want that life, I invite you to go to Venezuela. I will choose to stay here and fight against that BS.

(07-23-2020 07:48 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:21 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 12:16 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 10:52 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Quit trying to convince me to vote for Biden! I picked Hawkins but I'm really not a fan of him at all. He's a Russia Gate turd and has the charisma of a wet fart. Still better than Biden though, no matter how much you guys try to pretend he's gonna be a Democratic Socialist.

You do realize if this country was to turn Socialist, it ain't all rainbows and puppy dogs.. Those in power will reap all the rewards while people like us wait on line for food.. The government will give us what they think we need to survive while they live in luxury. Jobs will disappear. But it won't matter, everyone will make the same. Price of gas will go sky high because of the Green New Deal, but you won't be able to afford a good horse, maybe an old nag.

Dude you are literally describing conditions in the US right now for 10's of millions of people. Food lines, jobs disappearing, the elites wealth growing exponentially.

Except today there is still a solid majority middle class. If you enact socialism, the track record is the majority will be waiting for the handouts while the small ruling elite reap all the benefits.

We already have a small elite class reaping all the benefits.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...r-decades/

you're missing his point....

hint: incentive

(07-23-2020 07:51 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:48 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:21 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 12:16 PM)gdunn Wrote:  You do realize if this country was to turn Socialist, it ain't all rainbows and puppy dogs.. Those in power will reap all the rewards while people like us wait on line for food.. The government will give us what they think we need to survive while they live in luxury. Jobs will disappear. But it won't matter, everyone will make the same. Price of gas will go sky high because of the Green New Deal, but you won't be able to afford a good horse, maybe an old nag.

Dude you are literally describing conditions in the US right now for 10's of millions of people. Food lines, jobs disappearing, the elites wealth growing exponentially.

Except today there is still a solid majority middle class. If you enact socialism, the track record is the majority will be waiting for the handouts while the small ruling elite reap all the benefits.

We already have a small elite class reaping all the benefits.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...r-decades/

you're missing his point....

hint: incentive

I'm not missing the point. Worker productivity has skyrocketed over the last 2 decades while wages have not kept up in the least. The increased profits have been funneled directly upwards. Everyone likes to say the Nordic countries are not "socialist",that they have no minimum wage, and have very capitalist economies. That's true, it's also leaving out the fact that they all have functioning social safety nets and 80-90% of all workers are members of unions, changing the power dynamic between worker and boss and making it where a minimum wage is not needed.

The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies as well as typical cultural practices common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden).[1] This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining based on the economic foundations of free-market capitalism,[2] with a high percentage of the workforce unionised and a large percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

The reality is we are either going to reform american capitalism to something that looks more like their system or everything is going to burn to the ground and we'll either get socialism/communism or a totalitarian state out of it. Covid has broken the myth that this current system works for anyone other than the very very top.

(07-23-2020 09:49 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:51 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:48 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:21 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Dude you are literally describing conditions in the US right now for 10's of millions of people. Food lines, jobs disappearing, the elites wealth growing exponentially.

Except today there is still a solid majority middle class. If you enact socialism, the track record is the majority will be waiting for the handouts while the small ruling elite reap all the benefits.

We already have a small elite class reaping all the benefits.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...r-decades/

you're missing his point....

hint: incentive

I'm not missing the point. Worker productivity has skyrocketed over the last 2 decades while wages have not kept up in the least. The increased profits have been funneled directly upwards. Everyone likes to say the Nordic countries are not "socialist",that they have no minimum wage, and have very capitalist economies. That's true, it's also leaving out the fact that they all have functioning social safety nets and 80-90% of all workers are members of unions, changing the power dynamic between worker and boss and making it where a minimum wage is not needed.

The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies as well as typical cultural practices common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden).[1] This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining based on the economic foundations of free-market capitalism,[2] with a high percentage of the workforce unionised and a large percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

The reality is we are either going to reform american capitalism to something that looks more like their system or everything is going to burn to the ground and we'll either get socialism/communism or a totalitarian state out of it. Covid has broken the myth that this current system works for anyone other than the very very top.

That's not socialist, that's just free market capitalist with a few extra steps. Socialist would be nationalizing their companies and using the unions as pressure groups to keep the government accountable to the workers. The Nordic model won't work here for the very same reason you're seeing us struggle with Covid so much. We're far too individualist. Americans don't think of themselves as in anything together, or for any sort of greater good, even the left-leaning ones that more often than not do it to preen for social capital.

I do think we're headed towards totalitarianism, but our totalitarianism won't necessarily be at the state level. The state will just outsource whatever they can't do constitutionally to the private sector and work hand-in-hand with oligarchs in matters of governance. We'll be a market-state through and through, and being American will mean nothing more than a passport.

(07-23-2020 09:49 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:51 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:48 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:21 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Dude you are literally describing conditions in the US right now for 10's of millions of people. Food lines, jobs disappearing, the elites wealth growing exponentially.

Except today there is still a solid majority middle class. If you enact socialism, the track record is the majority will be waiting for the handouts while the small ruling elite reap all the benefits.

We already have a small elite class reaping all the benefits.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...r-decades/

you're missing his point....

hint: incentive

I'm not missing the point. Worker productivity has skyrocketed over the last 2 decades while wages have not kept up in the least. The increased profits have been funneled directly upwards. Everyone likes to say the Nordic countries are not "socialist",that they have no minimum wage, and have very capitalist economies. That's true, it's also leaving out the fact that they all have functioning social safety nets and 80-90% of all workers are members of unions, changing the power dynamic between worker and boss and making it where a minimum wage is not needed.

The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies as well as typical cultural practices common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden).[1] This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining based on the economic foundations of free-market capitalism,[2] with a high percentage of the workforce unionised and a large percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

The reality is we are either going to reform american capitalism to something that looks more like their system or everything is going to burn to the ground and we'll either get socialism/communism or a totalitarian state out of it. Covid has broken the myth that this current system works for anyone other than the very very top.

last time I checked, a capitalist system will always create incentive if job oriented....I couldn't give two motherfk's about the nordic system....

oh yeah, muh covid....record pace earnings to date....lmao at a young buck...and I like ya, bubby...

I'm hardly 'rich'......sweat equity...learn it/live it/love it.....that's where we part ways in dichotomy...

disclaimer: the goal should reduce welfare to lowest dominator....all you've defined in argument is the oppsite....

@puffpuffpass

(07-23-2020 09:49 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:51 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:48 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:21 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Dude you are literally describing conditions in the US right now for 10's of millions of people. Food lines, jobs disappearing, the elites wealth growing exponentially.

Except today there is still a solid majority middle class. If you enact socialism, the track record is the majority will be waiting for the handouts while the small ruling elite reap all the benefits.

We already have a small elite class reaping all the benefits.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...r-decades/

you're missing his point....

hint: incentive

I'm not missing the point. Worker productivity has skyrocketed over the last 2 decades while wages have not kept up in the least. The increased profits have been funneled directly upwards. Everyone likes to say the Nordic countries are not "socialist",that they have no minimum wage, and have very capitalist economies. That's true, it's also leaving out the fact that they all have functioning social safety nets and 80-90% of all workers are members of unions, changing the power dynamic between worker and boss and making it where a minimum wage is not needed.

The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies as well as typical cultural practices common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden).[1] This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining based on the economic foundations of free-market capitalism,[2] with a high percentage of the workforce unionised and a large percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

The reality is we are either going to reform american capitalism to something that looks more like their system or everything is going to burn to the ground and we'll either get socialism/communism or a totalitarian state out of it. Covid has broken the myth that this current system works for anyone other than the very very top.

The Nordic model only works when they can run trade surpluses. It's the largess of America that allows Scandinavia to do what they do. The moment we say "game over" and no longer act as the guarantors of security, lender of last resort and free market of last resort - their system will collapse.

(07-23-2020 10:27 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 09:49 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:51 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:48 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Except today there is still a solid majority middle class. If you enact socialism, the track record is the majority will be waiting for the handouts while the small ruling elite reap all the benefits.

We already have a small elite class reaping all the benefits.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...r-decades/

you're missing his point....

hint: incentive

I'm not missing the point. Worker productivity has skyrocketed over the last 2 decades while wages have not kept up in the least. The increased profits have been funneled directly upwards. Everyone likes to say the Nordic countries are not "socialist",that they have no minimum wage, and have very capitalist economies. That's true, it's also leaving out the fact that they all have functioning social safety nets and 80-90% of all workers are members of unions, changing the power dynamic between worker and boss and making it where a minimum wage is not needed.

The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies as well as typical cultural practices common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden).[1] This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining based on the economic foundations of free-market capitalism,[2] with a high percentage of the workforce unionised and a large percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

The reality is we are either going to reform american capitalism to something that looks more like their system or everything is going to burn to the ground and we'll either get socialism/communism or a totalitarian state out of it. Covid has broken the myth that this current system works for anyone other than the very very top.

The Nordic model only works when they can run trade surpluses. It's the largess of America that allows Scandinavia to do what they do. The moment we say "game over" and no longer act as the guarantors of security, lender of last resort and free market of last resort - their system will collapse.

it becomes chitty-chitty-bang@buhbye

(07-23-2020 10:06 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 09:49 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:51 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:48 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Except today there is still a solid majority middle class. If you enact socialism, the track record is the majority will be waiting for the handouts while the small ruling elite reap all the benefits.

We already have a small elite class reaping all the benefits.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...r-decades/

you're missing his point....

hint: incentive

I'm not missing the point. Worker productivity has skyrocketed over the last 2 decades while wages have not kept up in the least. The increased profits have been funneled directly upwards. Everyone likes to say the Nordic countries are not "socialist",that they have no minimum wage, and have very capitalist economies. That's true, it's also leaving out the fact that they all have functioning social safety nets and 80-90% of all workers are members of unions, changing the power dynamic between worker and boss and making it where a minimum wage is not needed.

The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies as well as typical cultural practices common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden).[1] This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining based on the economic foundations of free-market capitalism,[2] with a high percentage of the workforce unionised and a large percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

The reality is we are either going to reform american capitalism to something that looks more like their system or everything is going to burn to the ground and we'll either get socialism/communism or a totalitarian state out of it. Covid has broken the myth that this current system works for anyone other than the very very top.

last time I checked, a capitalist system will always create incentive if job oriented....I couldn't give two motherfk's about the nordic system....

oh yeah, muh covid....record pace earnings to date....lmao at a young buck...and I like ya, bubby...

I'm hardly 'rich'......sweat equity...learn it/live it/love it.....that's where we part ways in dichotomy...

disclaimer: the goal should reduce welfare to lowest dominator....all you've defined in argument is the oppsite....

@puffpuffpass

Try selling that "record pace earnings" junk to people who were living paycheck to paycheck before their job got eliminated by Covid and will be evicted from their house/apartment as soon as the moratoriums are eliminated.

(07-23-2020 10:04 AM)Mav Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 09:49 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:51 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:48 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Except today there is still a solid majority middle class. If you enact socialism, the track record is the majority will be waiting for the handouts while the small ruling elite reap all the benefits.

We already have a small elite class reaping all the benefits.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...r-decades/

you're missing his point....

hint: incentive

I'm not missing the point. Worker productivity has skyrocketed over the last 2 decades while wages have not kept up in the least. The increased profits have been funneled directly upwards. Everyone likes to say the Nordic countries are not "socialist",that they have no minimum wage, and have very capitalist economies. That's true, it's also leaving out the fact that they all have functioning social safety nets and 80-90% of all workers are members of unions, changing the power dynamic between worker and boss and making it where a minimum wage is not needed.

The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies as well as typical cultural practices common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden).[1] This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining based on the economic foundations of free-market capitalism,[2] with a high percentage of the workforce unionised and a large percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

The reality is we are either going to reform american capitalism to something that looks more like their system or everything is going to burn to the ground and we'll either get socialism/communism or a totalitarian state out of it. Covid has broken the myth that this current system works for anyone other than the very very top.

That's not socialist, that's just free market capitalist with a few extra steps. Socialist would be nationalizing their companies and using the unions as pressure groups to keep the government accountable to the workers. The Nordic model won't work here for the very same reason you're seeing us struggle with Covid so much. We're far too individualist. Americans don't think of themselves as in anything together, or for any sort of greater good, even the left-leaning ones that more often than not do it to preen for social capital.

I do think we're headed towards totalitarianism, but our totalitarianism won't necessarily be at the state level. The state will just outsource whatever they can't do constitutionally to the private sector and work hand-in-hand with oligarchs in matters of governance. We'll be a market-state through and through, and being American will mean nothing more than a passport.

I guess if we want to be completely accurate it will become a complete plutocracy instead of just the defacto one we have right now.

The Nordic model is tax and spend at a 45% tax rate in Denmark with a 25% Sales Tax. What incentive is there to work hard when the government (Leftists) take 45 cents of every dollar you make.

That’s the problem with young people and old communists like Bernie. They think you can increase taxes and the system will just keep producing.

If I’m a business owner and they start taxing my business to pay for their pie n the sky pipe dreams I would simply shut my business down. That’s my FU Comrades