Here are some quotes from the article. "UMass AD believes more schools will become FBS Independents as conference realignment starts up again in next five years"

Quote:UMass athletic director Ryan Bamford told the paper that UConn’s decision to leave the AAC could be the first of many others doing the same and that conference realignment likely kicking off in the next few years could be a driving force for schools in similar situations seeing the benefits to such a move as opposed to the negatives.

“From a football standpoint, looking at a league like the American with UConn and Temple in there would have made some sense,” Bamford said of talk about potentially taking the Huskies spot. “Now, I don’t think it does and we’ve found that being an independent and getting a really good, competitive, balanced schedule is doable. Now having lived it for three years and scheduling for the next three or four, there’s no real impetus for us to get into a league when I think there’s going to be more independent football-playing schools in the next three-to-five years as there’s going to be conference realignment.”

UConn weighing the pros and cons and going independent could be the start of a new wave (small wave) of new independents. It's great for UMass, which now has two bus trips to UConn and Army. Liberty is within the footprint of the old Yankee Conference, now CAA fcs football. Image if James Madison found a way to take their football team Independent. Or the A10 takes Old Dominion when say someone like Saint Louis is plucked for the new Big East. That would be 6 independents within a fairly tight footprint.

Click - full article link

Are there other teams that weigh the pros and cons?

I've predicted this for a few years now. Just like the music industry is going back to the era of singles, college football is reverting back to the days of feasibility for Independents.

There are a lot of reasons as to why it works, the main one being the ability to in-house all the AV broadcast stuff and have a college network.

(07-18-2020 10:05 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Here are some quotes from the article. "UMass AD believes more schools will become FBS Independents as conference realignment starts up again in next five years"

Quote:UMass athletic director Ryan Bamford told the paper that UConn’s decision to leave the AAC could be the first of many others doing the same and that conference realignment likely kicking off in the next few years could be a driving force for schools in similar situations seeing the benefits to such a move as opposed to the negatives.

“From a football standpoint, looking at a league like the American with UConn and Temple in there would have made some sense,” Bamford said of talk about potentially taking the Huskies spot. “Now, I don’t think it does and we’ve found that being an independent and getting a really good, competitive, balanced schedule is doable. Now having lived it for three years and scheduling for the next three or four, there’s no real impetus for us to get into a league when I think there’s going to be more independent football-playing schools in the next three-to-five years as there’s going to be conference realignment.”

UConn weighing the pros and cons and going independent could be the start of a new wave (small wave) of new independents. It's great for UMass, which now has two bus trips to UConn and Army. Liberty is within the footprint of the old Yankee Conference, now CAA fcs football. Image if James Madison found a way to take their football team Independent. Or the A10 takes Old Dominion when say someone like Saint Louis is plucked for the new Big East. That would be 6 independents within a fairly tight footprint.

Click - full article link

Are there other teams that weigh the pros and cons?

The more teams that do decide to go indy, the easier it becomes for others to follow. What if Temple and ECU were to join those six? But it's harder for an AAC school to make a move like that because, small as it is, the media payout for the AAC probably can't be duplicated by any school that might consider indy.

What I'm hoping it really leads to is more "football only" memberships like Hawaii or Navy. Like it or not, UMass, UConn, Temple, and West Virginia are stuck in the Northeast where there really aren't enough good football programs for a viable conference and if you're not good enough for the ACC or Big Ten you either have to join a geographically incompatible conference for all sports like Temple or West Virginia does or be an independent in football and a more geographically compatible conference for everything else like UMass and UConn. Why can't West Virginia be in the Big 12 in football and the Big East in other sports? Hawaii is in the MWC in football and the Big West in other sports. Should Hawaii be forced to be all in the MWC? Isn't it better off for the rest of the MWC that they don't have to travel to Hawaii for basketball or Olympic sports? Why wouldn't it be better if West Virginia played in the Big East or Atlantic 10 in other sports? Ideally one day assuming Temple doesn't get the golden ticket for the ACC or dare to dream Big Ten they can stay in the AAC for football but go back to the A-10 for other sports or dare to dream Big East. But if the only options are all in, eventually the geographic outliers might choose Curtain #2 (FBS independent) rather than force their softball team to travel thousands of miles (or in the case of Temple to cut their teams).

Wishful thinking.

The TV contracts, bowls and access to the playoff money make it a non-starter except in special circumstances.

NMSU and Liberty would join a conference in an instant. If the A10 gets raided while the MAC continues to strengthen in basketball, UMass will be looking to join (let alone if the AAC invites them).

(07-18-2020 10:51 AM)bullet Wrote:  Wishful thinking.

The TV contracts, bowls and access to the playoff money make it a non-starter except in special circumstances.

NMSU and Liberty would join a conference in an instant. If the A10 gets raided while the MAC continues to strengthen in basketball, UMass will be looking to join (let alone if the AAC invites them).

There is so much east coast bias. Eventhou the MAC is better than the A10 in almost every sport, except men's basketball. My hope is that some day down the road, UMass and either or both UConn and Army go as a package to an east coast or MAC football only.

Pipe dream and recommend skipping and back to more teams going independent.
For the MAC, which I like, imagine that UMass, UConn go full football and Army half in football. The MAC says it has to be revenue positive to the conference and the teams. So will take a team ending football. Say the MAC gets full 200k dues for each team. The MAC teams split 20% of the departed football team. UMass and UConn take a 30% cut and Army gets 20% cut of the departed football teams share. Army gets more than half of UConn and UMass but are pay full MAC dues for half the games.

There is no need from the scheduling perspective, but would be nice to have a conference championship possibility and defined bowl tie-ins.
UConn, UMass, Army pod is important playing each other as travel coast are to G5 teams.

(07-18-2020 10:51 AM)bullet Wrote:  Wishful thinking.

The TV contracts, bowls and access to the playoff money make it a non-starter except in special circumstances.

NMSU and Liberty would join a conference in an instant. If the A10 gets raided while the MAC continues to strengthen in basketball, UMass will be looking to join (let alone if the AAC invites them).

What New Mexico State and Liberty want has no connection to UMass.

Bowl access is either not an issue because indys get into appropriate bowl games already, or don't qualify making it a non issue. And if the indys increase and have quality teams, bowls will adjust and find room for them.

There are plenty of teams that are so far removed from the world of significant tv contracts and playoff money that it's not even a consideration.

All he said was he anticipates more independent teams after additional realignment, and that U Mass has no reason to feel like they HAVE to be in a league today to survive, schedule, find games, or advance the program.

Not sure what you think is such "wishful thinking" about his statement.

(07-18-2020 11:24 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 10:51 AM)bullet Wrote:  Wishful thinking.

The TV contracts, bowls and access to the playoff money make it a non-starter except in special circumstances.

NMSU and Liberty would join a conference in an instant. If the A10 gets raided while the MAC continues to strengthen in basketball, UMass will be looking to join (let alone if the AAC invites them).

What New Mexico State and Liberty want has no connection to UMass.

Bowl access is either not an issue because indys get into appropriate bowl games already, or don't qualify making it a non issue. And if the indys increase and have quality teams, bowls will adjust and find room for them.

There are plenty of teams that are so far removed from the world of significant tv contracts and playoff money that it's not even a consideration.

All he said was he anticipates more independent teams after additional realignment, and that U Mass has no reason to feel like they HAVE to be in a league today to survive, schedule, find games, or advance the program.

Not sure what you think is such "wishful thinking" about his statement.

That anyone else will join him and make his scheduling easier.

UConn, BYU and Notre Dame are unique circumstances. UConn had a place to go with more ties to than their existing conference and a sport that needed the step up (basketball). So they gave up the AAC TV contract and $2-$3 million from the CFP. The MAC/CUSA/SB schools get $1-$2 million typically from CFP. That's a big chunk of revenue.

(07-18-2020 11:30 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 11:24 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 10:51 AM)bullet Wrote:  Wishful thinking.

The TV contracts, bowls and access to the playoff money make it a non-starter except in special circumstances.

NMSU and Liberty would join a conference in an instant. If the A10 gets raided while the MAC continues to strengthen in basketball, UMass will be looking to join (let alone if the AAC invites them).

What New Mexico State and Liberty want has no connection to UMass.

Bowl access is either not an issue because indys get into appropriate bowl games already, or don't qualify making it a non issue. And if the indys increase and have quality teams, bowls will adjust and find room for them.

There are plenty of teams that are so far removed from the world of significant tv contracts and playoff money that it's not even a consideration.

All he said was he anticipates more independent teams after additional realignment, and that U Mass has no reason to feel like they HAVE to be in a league today to survive, schedule, find games, or advance the program.

Not sure what you think is such "wishful thinking" about his statement.

That anyone else will join him and make his scheduling easier.

UConn, BYU and Notre Dame are unique circumstances. UConn had a place to go with more ties to than their existing conference and a sport that needed the step up (basketball). So they gave up the AAC TV contract and $2-$3 million from the CFP. The MAC/CUSA/SB schools get $1-$2 million typically from CFP. That's a big chunk of revenue.

No, it is simply a single P5 buy game.

The source of independent teams is what has to be figured out.

At 14 schools already, would the A-10 want a school like ODU? Would ODU be willing to give up access to CFP revenue and access to the NY6?
I'd say ODU is an unlikely new independent. They're more likely to end up in a realigned eastern based G5 with App Satae, the Georgia schools, and others, and that in itself is a longshot.

There are not a lot of G5 schools who would have a great conference like the Big East to fall back on for non football sports like UConn did. So I don't foresee a lot of voluntary independence from current FBS schools.

It is possible, though I'm not betting on it, that a school like James Madison or North Dakota State could try independence in FBS while staying in their current leagues.

The most likely source of independents would be where something similar happens to G5 schools like what happened with NMSU and Idaho. Their conference falls apart after a massive raid, and no one else invites them in. I think ULM, UTEP, and Coastal Carolina would be most vulnerable to this. Most of the other C-USA and SB schools have facilities, academics, football prestige, or something else to make them attractive to a league.

Steve

You might be on something for the G5 level schools

A ton of possible outcomes. If you can bus to most of your games that does save big money.

The money is too good at this time for the P5 teams to go indy

(07-18-2020 11:30 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 11:24 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 10:51 AM)bullet Wrote:  Wishful thinking.

The TV contracts, bowls and access to the playoff money make it a non-starter except in special circumstances.

NMSU and Liberty would join a conference in an instant. If the A10 gets raided while the MAC continues to strengthen in basketball, UMass will be looking to join (let alone if the AAC invites them).

What New Mexico State and Liberty want has no connection to UMass.

Bowl access is either not an issue because indys get into appropriate bowl games already, or don't qualify making it a non issue. And if the indys increase and have quality teams, bowls will adjust and find room for them.

There are plenty of teams that are so far removed from the world of significant tv contracts and playoff money that it's not even a consideration.

All he said was he anticipates more independent teams after additional realignment, and that U Mass has no reason to feel like they HAVE to be in a league today to survive, schedule, find games, or advance the program.

Not sure what you think is such "wishful thinking" about his statement.

That anyone else will join him and make his scheduling easier.

UConn, BYU and Notre Dame are unique circumstances. UConn had a place to go with more ties to than their existing conference and a sport that needed the step up (basketball). So they gave up the AAC TV contract and $2-$3 million from the CFP. The MAC/CUSA/SB schools get $1-$2 million typically from CFP. That's a big chunk of revenue.

Obviously, every school is a unique circumstance. That goes without saying. He never mentioned more independent s would make their scheduling easier. All he said is it's doable now. And if those conferences get $1 million, great, but indys are already getting over half a million each, so I don't see it as such a huge loss considering how much they can make from guarantee games that they can get from controlling their own schedules.

U Mass is getting $3.3 million in guarantees a season. Replace that with low revenue conference home games full of dud opponents and the program would be bankrupted.

(07-18-2020 10:37 AM)esayem Wrote:  I've predicted this for a few years now. Just like the music industry is going back to the era of singles, college football is reverting back to the days of feasibility for Independents.

There are a lot of reasons as to why it works, the main one being the ability to in-house all the AV broadcast stuff and have a college network.

Other than schools with unique quality brands—Notre Dame and Army—who is independence “working” for? Nobody in a current FBS college football conference is looking to dump that membership in order to be the next UMAss or NM State. Neither of those programs is viewed as successful. They are, at best, seen as survivors barely scraping by.

UConn was a unique situation, and even they likely lose money on the exchange—and that’s with UConn having the most advantageous Olympic sports option outside of the P5 to lean on. The UMass AD is simply spinning a narrative to give his own fan base hope—as that’s really all he can do given that conference affiliation hopes for UMass are limited right now.

(07-18-2020 11:33 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 11:30 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 11:24 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 10:51 AM)bullet Wrote:  Wishful thinking.

The TV contracts, bowls and access to the playoff money make it a non-starter except in special circumstances.

NMSU and Liberty would join a conference in an instant. If the A10 gets raided while the MAC continues to strengthen in basketball, UMass will be looking to join (let alone if the AAC invites them).

What New Mexico State and Liberty want has no connection to UMass.

Bowl access is either not an issue because indys get into appropriate bowl games already, or don't qualify making it a non issue. And if the indys increase and have quality teams, bowls will adjust and find room for them.

There are plenty of teams that are so far removed from the world of significant tv contracts and playoff money that it's not even a consideration.

All he said was he anticipates more independent teams after additional realignment, and that U Mass has no reason to feel like they HAVE to be in a league today to survive, schedule, find games, or advance the program.

Not sure what you think is such "wishful thinking" about his statement.

That anyone else will join him and make his scheduling easier.

UConn, BYU and Notre Dame are unique circumstances. UConn had a place to go with more ties to than their existing conference and a sport that needed the step up (basketball). So they gave up the AAC TV contract and $2-$3 million from the CFP. The MAC/CUSA/SB schools get $1-$2 million typically from CFP. That's a big chunk of revenue.

No, it is simply a single P5 buy game.

The MAC teams get that buy game revenue as well.

(07-18-2020 10:49 AM)schmolik Wrote:  What I'm hoping it really leads to is more "football only" memberships like Hawaii or Navy. Like it or not, UMass, UConn, Temple, and West Virginia are stuck in the Northeast where there really aren't enough good football programs for a viable conference and if you're not good enough for the ACC or Big Ten you either have to join a geographically incompatible conference for all sports like Temple or West Virginia does or be an independent in football and a more geographically compatible conference for everything else like UMass and UConn. Why can't West Virginia be in the Big 12 in football and the Big East in other sports? Hawaii is in the MWC in football and the Big West in other sports. Should Hawaii be forced to be all in the MWC? Isn't it better off for the rest of the MWC that they don't have to travel to Hawaii for basketball or Olympic sports? Why wouldn't it be better if West Virginia played in the Big East or Atlantic 10 in other sports? Ideally one day assuming Temple doesn't get the golden ticket for the ACC or dare to dream Big Ten they can stay in the AAC for football but go back to the A-10 for other sports or dare to dream Big East. But if the only options are all in, eventually the geographic outliers might choose Curtain #2 (FBS independent) rather than force their softball team to travel thousands of miles (or in the case of Temple to cut their teams).

Eventually Boston College and Syracuse might find that they would be better off playing in a regional consortium as opposed to playing in a mostly mid-Atlantic/southern conference.
The damage the virus does will be long lasting to collegiate athletic budgets. Being able to eliminate a million or two in travel and related expenses could become a key to recovery.

(07-18-2020 12:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 10:49 AM)schmolik Wrote:  What I'm hoping it really leads to is more "football only" memberships like Hawaii or Navy. Like it or not, UMass, UConn, Temple, and West Virginia are stuck in the Northeast where there really aren't enough good football programs for a viable conference and if you're not good enough for the ACC or Big Ten you either have to join a geographically incompatible conference for all sports like Temple or West Virginia does or be an independent in football and a more geographically compatible conference for everything else like UMass and UConn. Why can't West Virginia be in the Big 12 in football and the Big East in other sports? Hawaii is in the MWC in football and the Big West in other sports. Should Hawaii be forced to be all in the MWC? Isn't it better off for the rest of the MWC that they don't have to travel to Hawaii for basketball or Olympic sports? Why wouldn't it be better if West Virginia played in the Big East or Atlantic 10 in other sports? Ideally one day assuming Temple doesn't get the golden ticket for the ACC or dare to dream Big Ten they can stay in the AAC for football but go back to the A-10 for other sports or dare to dream Big East. But if the only options are all in, eventually the geographic outliers might choose Curtain #2 (FBS independent) rather than force their softball team to travel thousands of miles (or in the case of Temple to cut their teams).

Eventually Boston College and Syracuse might find that they would be better off playing in a regional consortium as opposed to playing in a mostly mid-Atlantic/southern conference.
The damage the virus does will be long lasting to collegiate athletic budgets. Being able to eliminate a million or two in travel and related expenses could become a key to recovery.

I can’t imagine anyone leaving a P5 conference so they can play UMass, Liberty, and the like. I suspect Syracuse and BC have no issue with who they are playing. It’s also worth noting those two schools each have 4 OOC games to use to give thier schedule a NE flavor if they wish.

(07-18-2020 12:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 10:37 AM)esayem Wrote:  I've predicted this for a few years now. Just like the music industry is going back to the era of singles, college football is reverting back to the days of feasibility for Independents.

There are a lot of reasons as to why it works, the main one being the ability to in-house all the AV broadcast stuff and have a college network.

Other than schools with unique quality brands—Notre Dame and Army—who is independence “working” for? Nobody in a current FBS college football conference is looking to dump that membership in order to be the next UMAss or NM State. Neither of those programs is viewed as successful. They are, at best, seen as survivors barely scraping by.

UConn was a unique situation, and even they likely lose money on the exchange—and that’s with UConn having the most advantageous Olympic sports option outside of the P5 to lean on. The UMass AD is simply spinning a narrative to give his own fan base hope—as that’s really all he can do given that conference affiliation hopes for UMass are limited right now.

Perhaps and do have faith UMass will be successful, despite all it's mis-steps. We've spent over 50M on facilities since going FBS. They are top notch for G5 and stadium improvements have going at a measured pace as well with new video, sound system, bathrooms, south end pavilion etc. Budget wise we have been very responsible.

Quote:The athletic department was on target to finish fiscal year 2020 with a surplus, according to Bamford. That surplus though will be turned over to the university to help with its losses.

UMass is just over two weeks into fiscal year 2021. While Bamford hasn’t received his budget yet, he knew he had to cut $4.5-5 million out of the previous year’s budget of $40 million.

While he knows that figure will probably grow, he has already taken steps to address the situation. About $4.5 million has been saved between furloughs, voluntary coach and administration salary reductions, and buyouts as part of the Voluntary Separation Incentive Program (early retirements/voluntary resignation).

“We’re waiting to see what the remaining landscape is,” Bamford said. “The great unknown of the next 60 days could create some challenges for us.”

Full Article Link

(07-18-2020 10:51 AM)bullet Wrote:  The TV contracts, bowls and access to the playoff money make it a non-starter except in special circumstances.

TV contracts are not much of an impediment if any MAC, CUSA, or Sun Belt team really wanted to be a football indy. Playoff money might not be structured the same way in the next version of the CFP. For example, the CFP could pay the same annual amount to every non-P5 team whether or not they are in a conference, plus a big bonus to each team playing in a CFP bowl game.

The larger obstacle is that the MAC, CUSA, or Sun Belt wouldn't permit a member to take only its football team out of the conference. A new football indy would have to find a new all-sports conference. I don't see any realistic alternative conferences for any potential football indys that any of them would regard as an attractive option. No one considering this is going to find an all-sports conference that works as well for them as what UConn and BYU have.

(07-18-2020 12:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 10:37 AM)esayem Wrote:  I've predicted this for a few years now. Just like the music industry is going back to the era of singles, college football is reverting back to the days of feasibility for Independents.

There are a lot of reasons as to why it works, the main one being the ability to in-house all the AV broadcast stuff and have a college network.

Other than schools with unique quality brands—Notre Dame and Army—who is independence “working” for? Nobody in a current FBS college football conference is looking to dump that membership in order to be the next UMAss or NM State. Neither of those programs is viewed as successful. They are, at best, seen as survivors barely scraping by.

UConn was a unique situation, and even they likely lose money on the exchange—and that’s with UConn having the most advantageous Olympic sports option outside of the P5 to lean on. The UMass AD is simply spinning a narrative to give his own fan base hope—as that’s really all he can do given that conference affiliation hopes for UMass are limited right now.

This is my take as well. There are far more advantages to conference membership and the reason only a handful of schools are FBS independents. To put that in perspective only 7 FBS programs are independent compared to 123 conference affiliated or just 5% of the programs. I don't see that ratio changing much in the future.

Covid triggering massive “ Shakeup” out west ...PAC 12 imploding ...


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