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Response to the killing of George Floyd
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Rice93 Online
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Post: #21
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 05:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:17 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:11 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 04:53 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I prefer facts, 93. Not suppositions. Should be simple. Apparently not.

By the way 93, you have some facts wrong. Actually numerous.

One cop sat on him. One cop did crowd control. One cop held his leg, and prior to the apparent distress moved away. Another cop restrained Floyd with a single hand on the small of the back.

Chauvin sat in that position for 8 minutes, 30 seconds, not ten minutes.

I suggest you re-edit your historonics about 'four cops sitting on on him for ten minutes.'

Good fing grief. One statement, 3 errors about the cops and one error on the time. Awesome job there.


I am glad you are substituting your expert medical and pathologic knowledge for that of a........ medical professional. And a....... pathologist. Do you play an attorney on TV as well to enamor us with your expert legal opinions as well? Perhaps you should with the angle you are taking above.

In short you say 'I dont give a fk what an expert pathologist says is the cause of death, I will substitute my own opinion.' That really takes the cake there '93. Just awesome.


I will form my opinion based on the medical evidence. Not neceessarily on some douchebag board poster's opinion and his inherent belief without the medical evidence. Sound like plan?

I will respond to the rest later when I have time, but I thought you take great offense to ad homs? I’m confused.

Yes, your inability to state correct basic factual bases does seem to indicate at least some amount of confusion. On that we agree.

It's weird that you took that initial statement re: the pathology report to mean that they didn't think that Floyd was "killed".

Hopefully this will provide you some background:

https://twitter.com/drjudymelinek/status...65634?s=20

Ooh, boy --- proof by twitter feed. *That* is dispositive. Lolz.

By the way I just read the just released medical report.

Floyd died of a heart attack.

But, you got that Twitter feed that proves otherwise. So you must be happy. You are on a roll.

By the way the preliminary report was vague about the cause of death. Not only that, after being removed from his car, Floyd collapsed twice before getting to the patrol car. As he was being led to the patrol car he complained of a shortness of breath. And collapsed again.

Kind of sounds like something was happening *before* the knee on the throat. But, 93, that is the power of facts. Not the power of 'making **** up' (like you did), nor the power of supposition, nor the power of a Twitter expert schooling us what happened.

Funny thing, the Twitter roll you put up is incorrect -- there was no asphyxia present. 'Cardiopulmonary attack'.

So do you think that "asphyxia" is the only way that Floyd could have been "killed" by the actions of these officers? I'm trying to figure out why you are zeroing in on that term.
06-01-2020 06:00 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #22
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 05:58 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:17 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:11 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I will respond to the rest later when I have time, but I thought you take great offense to ad homs? I’m confused.

Yes, your inability to state correct basic factual bases does seem to indicate at least some amount of confusion. On that we agree.

It's weird that you took that initial statement re: the pathology report to mean that they didn't think that Floyd was "killed".

Hopefully this will provide you some background:

https://twitter.com/drjudymelinek/status...65634?s=20

Ooh, boy --- proof by twitter feed. *That* is dispositive. Lolz.

By the way I just read the just released medical report.

Floyd died of a heart attack.

But, you got that Twitter feed that proves otherwise. So you must be happy. You are on a roll.

Got it... so the pathologist putting forth her informed opinion doesn't count because she posted it on twitter. Strong take.

So you don't think the heart attack (I haven't read the medical report but I'll take your word for it) was related to the stress placed on the cardiovascular system due the actions of the police officers? So George Floyd wasn't killed... he just died of natural causes? Do you feel this autopsy report exonerates the officers in some way?

More because its wrong. Did you read the issued medical report? I provided a condensed synopsis above. Here it is again: heart attack. Got it?

Good grief you are on a roll again today.
06-01-2020 06:04 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #23
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 06:00 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:17 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:11 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I will respond to the rest later when I have time, but I thought you take great offense to ad homs? I’m confused.

Yes, your inability to state correct basic factual bases does seem to indicate at least some amount of confusion. On that we agree.

It's weird that you took that initial statement re: the pathology report to mean that they didn't think that Floyd was "killed".

Hopefully this will provide you some background:

https://twitter.com/drjudymelinek/status...65634?s=20

Ooh, boy --- proof by twitter feed. *That* is dispositive. Lolz.

By the way I just read the just released medical report.

Floyd died of a heart attack.

But, you got that Twitter feed that proves otherwise. So you must be happy. You are on a roll.

By the way the preliminary report was vague about the cause of death. Not only that, after being removed from his car, Floyd collapsed twice before getting to the patrol car. As he was being led to the patrol car he complained of a shortness of breath. And collapsed again.

Kind of sounds like something was happening *before* the knee on the throat. But, 93, that is the power of facts. Not the power of 'making **** up' (like you did), nor the power of supposition, nor the power of a Twitter expert schooling us what happened.

Funny thing, the Twitter roll you put up is incorrect -- there was no asphyxia present. 'Cardiopulmonary attack'.

So do you think that "asphyxia" is the only way that Floyd could have been "killed" by the actions of these officers? I'm trying to figure out why you are zeroing in on that term.

That is what Dr Twitter feed says. And what a knee on the throat would tend to indicate.
06-01-2020 06:05 PM
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Rice93 Online
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Post: #24
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 06:04 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:58 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:17 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Yes, your inability to state correct basic factual bases does seem to indicate at least some amount of confusion. On that we agree.

It's weird that you took that initial statement re: the pathology report to mean that they didn't think that Floyd was "killed".

Hopefully this will provide you some background:

https://twitter.com/drjudymelinek/status...65634?s=20

Ooh, boy --- proof by twitter feed. *That* is dispositive. Lolz.

By the way I just read the just released medical report.

Floyd died of a heart attack.

But, you got that Twitter feed that proves otherwise. So you must be happy. You are on a roll.

Got it... so the pathologist putting forth her informed opinion doesn't count because she posted it on twitter. Strong take.

So you don't think the heart attack (I haven't read the medical report but I'll take your word for it) was related to the stress placed on the cardiovascular system due the actions of the police officers? So George Floyd wasn't killed... he just died of natural causes? Do you feel this autopsy report exonerates the officers in some way?

More because its wrong. Did you read the issued medical report? I provided a condensed synopsis above. Here it is again: heart attack. Got it?

Good grief you are on a roll again today.

Which part was wrong? It was from a couple days ago responding to the statement that was made about the initial pathology report.
06-01-2020 06:07 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #25
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 06:00 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:17 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:11 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I will respond to the rest later when I have time, but I thought you take great offense to ad homs? I’m confused.

Yes, your inability to state correct basic factual bases does seem to indicate at least some amount of confusion. On that we agree.

It's weird that you took that initial statement re: the pathology report to mean that they didn't think that Floyd was "killed".

Hopefully this will provide you some background:

https://twitter.com/drjudymelinek/status...65634?s=20

Ooh, boy --- proof by twitter feed. *That* is dispositive. Lolz.

By the way I just read the just released medical report.

Floyd died of a heart attack.

But, you got that Twitter feed that proves otherwise. So you must be happy. You are on a roll.

By the way the preliminary report was vague about the cause of death. Not only that, after being removed from his car, Floyd collapsed twice before getting to the patrol car. As he was being led to the patrol car he complained of a shortness of breath. And collapsed again.

Kind of sounds like something was happening *before* the knee on the throat. But, 93, that is the power of facts. Not the power of 'making **** up' (like you did), nor the power of supposition, nor the power of a Twitter expert schooling us what happened.

Funny thing, the Twitter roll you put up is incorrect -- there was no asphyxia present. 'Cardiopulmonary attack'.

So do you think that "asphyxia" is the only way that Floyd could have been "killed" by the actions of these officers? I'm trying to figure out why you are zeroing in on that term.

I pointed out with that term that the Dr Twitter feed you so proudly posted as proof positive is...... wrong.

Funny, I even mention your Twitter roll in the intro to the sentence. Perhaps with that intro the Twitter roll and *its* asphyxia conclusion are related. Just maybe. Did you even read your own 'Twitter proof' or just slapdash it up there blindly?
06-01-2020 06:08 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #26
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 06:07 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:04 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:58 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  It's weird that you took that initial statement re: the pathology report to mean that they didn't think that Floyd was "killed".

Hopefully this will provide you some background:

https://twitter.com/drjudymelinek/status...65634?s=20

Ooh, boy --- proof by twitter feed. *That* is dispositive. Lolz.

By the way I just read the just released medical report.

Floyd died of a heart attack.

But, you got that Twitter feed that proves otherwise. So you must be happy. You are on a roll.

Got it... so the pathologist putting forth her informed opinion doesn't count because she posted it on twitter. Strong take.

So you don't think the heart attack (I haven't read the medical report but I'll take your word for it) was related to the stress placed on the cardiovascular system due the actions of the police officers? So George Floyd wasn't killed... he just died of natural causes? Do you feel this autopsy report exonerates the officers in some way?

More because its wrong. Did you read the issued medical report? I provided a condensed synopsis above. Here it is again: heart attack. Got it?

Good grief you are on a roll again today.

Which part was wrong? It was from a couple days ago responding to the statement that was made about the initial pathology report.

Maybe I should type slower.

In the last hour the Hennepin County coroner issued a final determination of death. Heart attack. Are you on board now?

So, the supposition in your Dr Twitter roll, is...... nothing more than supposition at that point in time. And now, its just flat incorrect. Still on board now?

Any other questions?

Any other Twitter proof you wish to pull out of that arsenal?
06-01-2020 06:11 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #27
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
As an aside, are we clear that there were not 4 cops sitting on him? I mean, with the way you have mangled everything else, then rely upon a Twitter thread as proof of cause of death, I really want to make sure.
06-01-2020 06:14 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #28
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
From the Babylon Bee: Clever churchgoers avoid arrest by disguising themselves as rioters.
06-01-2020 06:16 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 05:06 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 04:12 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Simple solution.

Make it illegal for a white person to serve as a cop.

We would never again hear this white cop/black victim stuff.

Even that wouldnt work. Trayvon Martin was killed by a Hispanic --- yet we had the same black/white **** then.

But he was a "white hispanic". As I am.

He also wasn't a cop.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2020 06:53 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
06-01-2020 06:49 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 06:16 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  From the Babylon Bee: Clever churchgoers avoid arrest by disguising themselves as rioters.

That's funny.
06-01-2020 06:58 PM
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Rice93 Online
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Post: #31
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 06:14 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  As an aside, are we clear that there were not 4 cops sitting on him? I mean, with the way you have mangled everything else, then rely upon a Twitter thread as proof of cause of death, I really want to make sure.

Sure... there were more than one but less than four cops sitting on him. Not sure that is germane to the overall discussion but I admit that my "4 cops sitting on him" was not accurate.

I didn't use it as "proof as cause of death"... where did I identify the cause of death? I used the expert on twitter to provide background on that original statement that came out a few days ago. The statement that you took to cast doubt as to whether George Floyd was actually killed by the police officers.
06-01-2020 07:06 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 06:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:06 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 04:12 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Simple solution.

Make it illegal for a white person to serve as a cop.

We would never again hear this white cop/black victim stuff.

Even that wouldnt work. Trayvon Martin was killed by a Hispanic --- yet we had the same black/white **** then.

But he was a "white hispanic". As I am.

He also wasn't a cop.

But Trayvon is still a martyr as much as Michael 'Dont shoot the 6'4 280 lb guy who is wrassling for your gun' Brown.

And the guy who shot Trayvon was a cop-wannabe --- same difference, good enough for the cause.
06-01-2020 07:08 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
Also, Tanq reply provide a link to the autopsy report. I think there is an independent report that was released as well and I want to make sure that we're discussing the same thing.
06-01-2020 07:11 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 07:06 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:14 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  As an aside, are we clear that there were not 4 cops sitting on him? I mean, with the way you have mangled everything else, then rely upon a Twitter thread as proof of cause of death, I really want to make sure.

Sure... there were more than one but less than four cops sitting on him. Not sure that is germane to the overall discussion but I admit that my "4 cops sitting on him" was not accurate.

I didn't use it as "proof as cause of death"... where did I identify the cause of death? I used the expert on twitter to provide background on that original statement that came out a few days ago. The statement that you took to cast doubt as to whether George Floyd was actually killed by the police officers.

Funny, you still are clueless that the 'exert on Twitter' was wrong. That is my point entirely. I simply waited for the real examination. Facts. Not Twitter roll garbage.

I am not taking *any* statement to cast doubt. What the hell is so frigging hard to understand about 'waiting for the official COD before I leap to stunning conclusions' --- like you did? Or is the religion on the cause of death so friggin ingrained into you that you dont care what a pathologist says -- with all due respect you have already said something akin to that, so why?

I fail to see any germane role that your Dr twitter has in the issue -- that is aside from you pulling out a Twitter feed with nothing but supposition at the time, *and* ends up being fundamentally wrong in its assessment.

But, I guess it made you feel good to do that. Different strokes, I guess....

This entire episode has been me saying, I am waiting to see what the hell the official COD is; then you going bonkers that I have the temerity to do that, that I dont see how obvious that your view is. Then you pull out some bull**** Twitter garbage that says 'its obvious it was asphyxia' to somehow prove your point.

Hate to tell you, the dude died from a heart attack. Not asphyxia like your Dr Twitter Expert in a Can said. You know, the one you pulled out to somehow *prove* that waiting for an expert opinion that had actual access to the body (instead of some *ahem* non-professional know it all opinion on a message board) was oh-so incorrect.

Well we got the official statement, didnt we? So please do tell, how is it so amazingly obvious that the knee caused a heart attack? The heart attack doesnt surprise me -- Floyd was exhibiting signs of that during his initial detention. It looks like he could very well have been having that *as* he was being led from his car to the patrol car, based on the witnesses.

And no, this doesnt excuse Chauvin's actions. But it seems far from settled that 'but for' Chauvin that the COD (again, a heart attack) happened.

I can think of other theories of how murder can be attributed to him. But your imagery of the knee on the neck doesnt seem to be the factual and actual cause of death. Apparently much to your chagrin.


Now, I would disagree with the 'more than one cop' sitting on him. Can you direct me to footage that shows any other officer 'sitting on him'? All I have seen is Chauvin doing that. The only other contact that I have seen is one holding his ankles, and, at a later point, one with a single hand on the small of his back.

But that has less rhetorical impact that your grndiose '4 cops sitting on him', doesnt it?
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2020 07:30 PM by tanqtonic.)
06-01-2020 07:28 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #35
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 07:11 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Also, Tanq reply provide a link to the autopsy report. I think there is an independent report that was released as well and I want to make sure that we're discussing the same thing.

https://twitter.com/LydenFOX9/status/126...6793027584
06-01-2020 07:31 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 07:08 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:06 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 04:12 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Simple solution.

Make it illegal for a white person to serve as a cop.

We would never again hear this white cop/black victim stuff.

Even that wouldnt work. Trayvon Martin was killed by a Hispanic --- yet we had the same black/white **** then.

But he was a "white hispanic". As I am.

He also wasn't a cop.

But Trayvon is still a martyr as much as Michael 'Dont shoot the 6'4 280 lb guy who is wrassling for your gun' Brown.

And the guy who shot Trayvon was a cop-wannabe --- same difference, good enough for the cause.

What is good enough for the cause is the white shooter/black shootee story line. Hard to get much systemic racism out of the opposite, so when it happens, it is never reported or protested.
06-01-2020 07:31 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 07:31 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 07:08 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:06 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 04:12 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Simple solution.

Make it illegal for a white person to serve as a cop.

We would never again hear this white cop/black victim stuff.

Even that wouldnt work. Trayvon Martin was killed by a Hispanic --- yet we had the same black/white **** then.

But he was a "white hispanic". As I am.

He also wasn't a cop.

But Trayvon is still a martyr as much as Michael 'Dont shoot the 6'4 280 lb guy who is wrassling for your gun' Brown.

And the guy who shot Trayvon was a cop-wannabe --- same difference, good enough for the cause.

What is good enough for the cause is the white shooter/black shootee story line. Hard to get much systemic racism out of the opposite, so when it happens, it is never reported or protested.

Kind of like the Somali cop / blonde Aussie woman who got gunned down in Minneapolis -- funny I didnt see protests on her behalf.

Funny again, the protests I *did* see were those in support of the cop at that time.

But, Minneapolis, nor any other city, pulled the pin on the 'lets go apeshit grenade' on behalf of that blonde victim as they have on this one.

Nor did anyone pull the pin on the 'lets go apeshit grenade' on behalf of the Somali policeman who was charged.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2020 07:43 PM by tanqtonic.)
06-01-2020 07:36 PM
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Rice93 Online
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Post: #38
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 07:28 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 07:06 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:14 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  As an aside, are we clear that there were not 4 cops sitting on him? I mean, with the way you have mangled everything else, then rely upon a Twitter thread as proof of cause of death, I really want to make sure.

Sure... there were more than one but less than four cops sitting on him. Not sure that is germane to the overall discussion but I admit that my "4 cops sitting on him" was not accurate.

I didn't use it as "proof as cause of death"... where did I identify the cause of death? I used the expert on twitter to provide background on that original statement that came out a few days ago. The statement that you took to cast doubt as to whether George Floyd was actually killed by the police officers.

Funny, you still are clueless that the 'exert on Twitter' was wrong. That is my point entirely. I simply waited for the real examination. Facts. Not Twitter roll garbage.

I am not taking *any* statement to cast doubt. What the hell is so frigging hard to understand about 'waiting for the official COD before I leap to stunning conclusions' --- like you did? Or is the religion on the cause of death so friggin ingrained into you that you dont care what a pathologist says -- with all due respect you have already said something akin to that, so why?

I fail to see any germane role that your Dr twitter has in the issue -- that is aside from you pulling out a Twitter feed with nothing but supposition at the time, *and* ends up being fundamentally wrong in its assessment.

But, I guess it made you feel good to do that. Different strokes, I guess....

This entire episode has been me saying, I am waiting to see what the hell the official COD is; then you going bonkers that I have the temerity to do that, that I dont see how obvious that your view is. Then you pull out some bull**** Twitter garbage that says 'its obvious it was asphyxia' to somehow prove your point.

Hate to tell you, the dude died from a heart attack. Not asphyxia like your Dr Twitter Expert in a Can said. You know, the one you pulled out to somehow *prove* that waiting for an expert opinion that had actual access to the body (instead of some *ahem* non-professional know it all opinion on a message board) was oh-so incorrect.

Well we got the official statement, didnt we? So please do tell, how is it so amazingly obvious that the knee caused a heart attack? The heart attack doesnt surprise me -- Floyd was exhibiting signs of that during his initial detention. It looks like he could very well have been having that *as* he was being led from his car to the patrol car, based on the witnesses.

And no, this doesnt excuse Chauvin's actions. But it seems far from settled that 'but for' Chauvin that the COD (again, a heart attack) happened.

I can think of other theories of how murder can be attributed to him. But your imagery of the knee on the neck doesnt seem to be the factual and actual cause of death. Apparently much to your chagrin.


Now, I would disagree with the 'more than one cop' sitting on him. Can you direct me to footage that shows any other officer 'sitting on him'? All I have seen is Chauvin doing that. The only other contact that I have seen is one holding his ankles, and, at a later point, one with a single hand on the small of his back.

But that has less rhetorical impact that your grndiose '4 cops sitting on him', doesnt it?

I don't see anything in that report to suggest this was a "heart attack". In light of your spittle-filled (h/t Lad) diatribe on Twitter experts, it's funny that you apparently pulled that term from the tweet of a local reporter.

As far as I understand, a "heart attack" occurs when a blockage in a coronary artery causes a critical lack of blood flow to an area of the heart. I don't see any mention of that in the pathology report. The term they use in the actual report is "cardiopulmonary arrest". I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure that just means the cardiovascular system stops working (which I assume can be due to a myriad of causes). Unless you can provide more evidence to support your claim, let's quit referring to this as a "heart attack".

So... for a guy who has been going on a diatribe about details and "Twitter experts" it seems to me that perhaps you could tone it down a bit?

I also note that the independent autopsy was consistent with asphyxiation. I'll let you lawyers comment as to the value of independent medical examiners in cases such as these.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2020 08:11 PM by Rice93.)
06-01-2020 08:10 PM
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Rice93 Online
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Post: #39
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 07:28 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 07:06 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:14 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  As an aside, are we clear that there were not 4 cops sitting on him? I mean, with the way you have mangled everything else, then rely upon a Twitter thread as proof of cause of death, I really want to make sure.

Sure... there were more than one but less than four cops sitting on him. Not sure that is germane to the overall discussion but I admit that my "4 cops sitting on him" was not accurate.

I didn't use it as "proof as cause of death"... where did I identify the cause of death? I used the expert on twitter to provide background on that original statement that came out a few days ago. The statement that you took to cast doubt as to whether George Floyd was actually killed by the police officers.

Funny, you still are clueless that the 'exert on Twitter' was wrong. That is my point entirely. I simply waited for the real examination. Facts. Not Twitter roll garbage.

I am not taking *any* statement to cast doubt. What the hell is so frigging hard to understand about 'waiting for the official COD before I leap to stunning conclusions' --- like you did? Or is the religion on the cause of death so friggin ingrained into you that you dont care what a pathologist says -- with all due respect you have already said something akin to that, so why?

I fail to see any germane role that your Dr twitter has in the issue -- that is aside from you pulling out a Twitter feed with nothing but supposition at the time, *and* ends up being fundamentally wrong in its assessment.

But, I guess it made you feel good to do that. Different strokes, I guess....

This entire episode has been me saying, I am waiting to see what the hell the official COD is; then you going bonkers that I have the temerity to do that, that I dont see how obvious that your view is. Then you pull out some bull**** Twitter garbage that says 'its obvious it was asphyxia' to somehow prove your point.

Hate to tell you, the dude died from a heart attack. Not asphyxia like your Dr Twitter Expert in a Can said. You know, the one you pulled out to somehow *prove* that waiting for an expert opinion that had actual access to the body (instead of some *ahem* non-professional know it all opinion on a message board) was oh-so incorrect.

Well we got the official statement, didnt we? So please do tell, how is it so amazingly obvious that the knee caused a heart attack? The heart attack doesnt surprise me -- Floyd was exhibiting signs of that during his initial detention. It looks like he could very well have been having that *as* he was being led from his car to the patrol car, based on the witnesses.

And no, this doesnt excuse Chauvin's actions. But it seems far from settled that 'but for' Chauvin that the COD (again, a heart attack) happened.

I can think of other theories of how murder can be attributed to him. But your imagery of the knee on the neck doesnt seem to be the factual and actual cause of death. Apparently much to your chagrin.


Now, I would disagree with the 'more than one cop' sitting on him. Can you direct me to footage that shows any other officer 'sitting on him'? All I have seen is Chauvin doing that. The only other contact that I have seen is one holding his ankles, and, at a later point, one with a single hand on the small of his back.

Kind of hard to say for sure given the distance from the action... but it looks to me like three of the cops are, in fact, kneeling on him. Looks to my eye more than "a single hand on the small of his back". Not sure that you can say for sure what the guy in back is doing. Again, to me it looks like he is kneeling on him however hard to be certain.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/05/29...eo-vpx.cnn

Quote:But that has less rhetorical impact that your grndiose '4 cops sitting on him', doesnt it?

I should have said "Three cops kneeling on him (with one on his neck for > 8 minutes)." That is even worse than my original "grandiose" statement.
06-01-2020 08:30 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 08:10 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 07:28 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 07:06 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:14 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  As an aside, are we clear that there were not 4 cops sitting on him? I mean, with the way you have mangled everything else, then rely upon a Twitter thread as proof of cause of death, I really want to make sure.

Sure... there were more than one but less than four cops sitting on him. Not sure that is germane to the overall discussion but I admit that my "4 cops sitting on him" was not accurate.

I didn't use it as "proof as cause of death"... where did I identify the cause of death? I used the expert on twitter to provide background on that original statement that came out a few days ago. The statement that you took to cast doubt as to whether George Floyd was actually killed by the police officers.

Funny, you still are clueless that the 'exert on Twitter' was wrong. That is my point entirely. I simply waited for the real examination. Facts. Not Twitter roll garbage.

I am not taking *any* statement to cast doubt. What the hell is so frigging hard to understand about 'waiting for the official COD before I leap to stunning conclusions' --- like you did? Or is the religion on the cause of death so friggin ingrained into you that you dont care what a pathologist says -- with all due respect you have already said something akin to that, so why?

I fail to see any germane role that your Dr twitter has in the issue -- that is aside from you pulling out a Twitter feed with nothing but supposition at the time, *and* ends up being fundamentally wrong in its assessment.

But, I guess it made you feel good to do that. Different strokes, I guess....

This entire episode has been me saying, I am waiting to see what the hell the official COD is; then you going bonkers that I have the temerity to do that, that I dont see how obvious that your view is. Then you pull out some bull**** Twitter garbage that says 'its obvious it was asphyxia' to somehow prove your point.

Hate to tell you, the dude died from a heart attack. Not asphyxia like your Dr Twitter Expert in a Can said. You know, the one you pulled out to somehow *prove* that waiting for an expert opinion that had actual access to the body (instead of some *ahem* non-professional know it all opinion on a message board) was oh-so incorrect.

Well we got the official statement, didnt we? So please do tell, how is it so amazingly obvious that the knee caused a heart attack? The heart attack doesnt surprise me -- Floyd was exhibiting signs of that during his initial detention. It looks like he could very well have been having that *as* he was being led from his car to the patrol car, based on the witnesses.

And no, this doesnt excuse Chauvin's actions. But it seems far from settled that 'but for' Chauvin that the COD (again, a heart attack) happened.

I can think of other theories of how murder can be attributed to him. But your imagery of the knee on the neck doesnt seem to be the factual and actual cause of death. Apparently much to your chagrin.


Now, I would disagree with the 'more than one cop' sitting on him. Can you direct me to footage that shows any other officer 'sitting on him'? All I have seen is Chauvin doing that. The only other contact that I have seen is one holding his ankles, and, at a later point, one with a single hand on the small of his back.

But that has less rhetorical impact that your grndiose '4 cops sitting on him', doesnt it?

I don't see anything in that report to suggest this was a "heart attack". In light of your spittle-filled (h/t Lad) diatribe on Twitter experts, it's funny that you apparently pulled that term from the tweet of a local reporter.

As far as I understand, a "heart attack" occurs when a blockage in a coronary artery causes a critical lack of blood flow to an area of the heart. I don't see any mention of that in the pathology report. The term they use in the actual report is "cardiopulmonary arrest". I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure that just means the cardiovascular system stops working (which I assume can be due to a myriad of causes). Unless you can provide more evidence to support your claim, let's quit referring to this as a "heart attack".

So... for a guy who has been going on a diatribe about details and "Twitter experts" it seems to me that perhaps you could tone it down a bit?

I also note that the independent autopsy was consistent with asphyxiation. I'll let you lawyers comment as to the value of independent medical examiners in cases such as these.

He died from a failure of the heart. My bad for for using a somewhat alternate term.

And he had a history of heart disease.

And he was collapsing and complaining of a shortness of breat *as* he was being detained.

As for 'independent autopsy' ---well someone pays that 'independent pathologist'. You know, the one the family brought in. But couch that fact away.

Please do tell which pathologist has zero skin in the game? Doesnt take a rocket scientist to answer that one, mind you.

Diatribe 'against Twitter experts'? Not at all. More of a diatribe against people that pull them out of their back pocket to support their own predispositon. You should clue into that.

I find it strange that you are still on a butthurt roll because I wanted to see what the medical examiner said, as opposed to taking your expert view.

The official medical examiner has spoken, hasnt he? As opposed to your Twitter expert that you rolled out of the woodwork, the findings of the Hennepin County Pathologist say: heart stopped, fentynal, meth, cadiovascualr disease, restraint.

Honestly I wish it had been officially asphyxiation --- then it would be cleaner. The official finding is far from that. And, it will seemingly get you pissed that it wasnt cleaner -- since in 93 world it is OBVIOUS that the knee on the neck is the cause, and how dare *anyone* actually say they are going to wait for the official COD.

I mean, it must be strange for someone to dare to wait for an official COD before opining that Floyd was killed, especially when you have Dr Twitter in a Can to fall back on. Lolz.

The umbrage that you exhibited because someone wants to wait on actual facts before joining the '93 chorus of 'what is and ever shall be' is really kind of mind boggling from this perspective.
06-01-2020 08:31 PM
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