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Response to the killing of George Floyd
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #61
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 10:28 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:41 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
Quote:And he had a history of heart disease.

And he was collapsing and complaining of a shortness of breat *as* he was being detained.

Yet no evidence of heart attack on the autopsy.

Funny, I read the physical cause of death of 'his heart arrested'. Maybe you didnt read that far. The symptoms of cardiac arrest parallel what was happening there.

Quote:
Quote:Diatribe 'against Twitter experts'? Not at all. More of a diatribe against people that pull them out of their back pocket to support their own predispositon. You should clue into that.

I thought her credentials would give opinions some weight. Certainly more weight than anybody commenting on this thread at least.

And not nearly as much as someone who actually sees and examines the body. Funny that. That is a problem with Dr Twitter in a Can in this instance. As noted, I prefer the actual facts instead of the opinion of Dr Twitter in a Can. I hope you can appreciate the very major differences therein.

Quote:
Quote:I find it strange that you are still on a butthurt roll because I wanted to see what the medical examiner said, as opposed to taking your expert view.

The official medical examiner has spoken, hasnt he? As opposed to your Twitter expert that you rolled out of the woodwork, the findings of the Hennepin County Pathologist say: heart stopped, fentynal, meth, cadiovascualr disease, restraint.

Homicide is what they called it. You left that one out.

I included the physical manifestations of the body (i.e. the physical issues of the body that led to Floyd's death). Please do tell what the physical manifestations of 'homicide' are.

Well you included the term "restraint" which is not a "physical issue of the body" so I wasn't sure were you are going.

What do you think about the cause of death listed on the report when they said: Cardiopulmonary arrest, restraint, neck compression?

I think to read the section "How injury happened" in conjunction with that. That section denotes 'decedent suffered cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by officers.' Period. Had they discussed how the neck compression did this, that might be. Funny, they did not.

Quote:Do you think that the "cardiopulmonary arrest" could be related to the knee in the neck

Perhaps. I dont know.

Quote:or do you think this guy was having a heart attack when he was arrested (but prior to him being kneeled on)?

Again, perhaps. And again, I dont know. You magically do know. Funny that.

As I noted before, had there been medical evidence of asphyxia, there really wouldnt be those questions or doubts. Instead, what we have is somewhat of a hodgepodge in the lack of information there.

Again, I preferred to wait for the pathologists determination prior to kneejerk assuming items. The core thing I take away from this is that you do not. Sound about right?
06-01-2020 11:06 PM
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Rice93 Online
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Post: #62
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 10:40 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:18 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:29 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I just thought it weird that somebody could look at that video and not think that the cops killed George Floyd.

Perhaps I read about the condition he exhibited prior to his final face down position.

Again, when he was removed from his car, he complained about a shortness of breath. When leading him to the cruiser, he collapsed. He was brought back up, then collapsed again. He was brought to his feet a second time, and again he complained of a shortness of breath.

One might surmise he is, at the point of being brought out of his car, already having an attack of some sort. That series is kind of spot on how my grandfather died.

And yet the pathology report made no mention of heart attack.

Where did I mention 'heart attack' above, please.

Quote:
Quote:Second, had the initial findings noted asphyxia, I wouldnt have much doubt. They didnt show that.

I look at that video and I see a horrible assault on a man being detained.

And, even before knowing about the symptoms he exhibited before he fell for the last time, I dont automatically assume that the very horrific assault led to his death. Did it seem possible? Of course. Probable? Maybe. But I have seen other actions that I would have sworn to the Bible and back would/should have led to death but didnt. Perhaps I am jaded on the concept of 'actual causation' and have myself fallen for the hook line and sinker of a kneejerk assumption.

Sure. Strange things happen. Probably not likely. Enough to freak out on my use of the term "killing" in the thread title? IMO, no.

I will call a kneejerk assumption a kneejerk assumption. Your kneejerk assumption is still somewhat of a kneejerk assumption.

Not really a kneejerk reaction IMO to call this a killing rather than hedging bet until final report came out. Seemed pretty obvious.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:There is a concept called 'cause in fact', and requirement of that is --- well -- fact. There were no underlying facts to automatically assume the belief that the knee in the neck would cause that death. There is good cause to think that, but there is also that realm that it did not when underlying facts are missing.

As it stands, the knee on the neck doesnt have such a clear link to the physical reason of his death by heart failure. The prosecutors are going to have a bear of a time proving a murder that way.

I've see you've got your doctor hat on again. I doubt the experts will agree with you on this assertion. Time will tell.

Can you cite where in your esteemed knowledge a knee on the neck leads to cardiac arrest?

This cardiologist's explanation might help. Sorry that it's Youtube. I hope that doesn't cause you undue rage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egRf84EqaJI


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:The easier mode is this: Chauvin had reason to know Floyd was under physical distress *at the time he was removed from his car*. He exhibited all the classic symptoms of heart failure. When cops detain you, they assume all responsibility for your well being. Chauvin ignored those very visible symptoms. In that short little summary, you have at the very least negligent homicide -- a manslaughter 2 count. Right then and there.

The act of the knee on the neck *even in light* of the classic symptoms of heart failure shows potentially a depraved indifference to Chauvin's well being -- in fact to Chauvin's life. His continued refusal to heed the calls by his other cops is another point; as is the continued refusal to heed the calls of the bystanders. That is enough for a murder 3 count -- depraved or reckless indifference.

Seems like you are trying to describe a heart attack here.

I am noting some of the symptoms of heart failure as well. That is, cardiac arrest. That is cardiopulmonary arrest.

Quote:
Quote:The other key is that Chauvin both had an official responsibility for Floyd's well being, but he also had 'physical control' of Floyd at the very same time.

But you all are so gd fixated that the knee was the cause in fact to the death, that the more realistic alternative seems to fly right past you.

What was the more realistic alternative? I'm confused again. "Heart failure" unrelated to the knee in the neck?

It's only confusing when you ignore his issues after being detained and prior to his final collapse. That is, the 'heart failure' that is denoted in the Hennepin County patholology report. You seem extraordinarily resistant to the official COD for some fing reason.

The exact COD lists cardiopulmonary arrest. Also "restraint" and "neck compression".

Quote:
Quote:I'll be interested to see if actual medical experts agree with your proposed sequence here. Perhaps even medical experts that post on Twitter?

Strangely the Hennepin County pathologist agrees that heart failure was a COD. Strangely you studiously ignore that.

I don't see "heart failure" under COD. I see "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual". Also "restraint". Also "neck compression".

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:And when they are let go at the appellate level for an 'insufficiency of evidence' or a 'just a friggin wrong application of the law to the facts', it will be attitudes like yours that guarantee another city going up in smoke. Got to love that bloodlust.

But that is why I am not a tremendously large fan of progressive causes for the whole part.

So, go ahead and preemptively believe that a knee in the neck causes heart failure. Sounds like fun to me. Also sounds like a belief system that I would prefer not to practice -- that is the belief trumps the factual record.

I think a prolonged knee in the neck could cause cardiopulmonary arrest as described by the pathology report. I'm a bit confused still... what exactly are you proposing led to his death?

Funnily I am proposing cardiopulmonary arrest, and restraint as the primary physical COD. You know, those things listed on the Hennepin County pathology report.

You yet again left out "neck compression". So weird that you keep leaving that one out. Why do you think "neck compression" is listed under COD?
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2020 11:12 PM by Rice93.)
06-01-2020 11:07 PM
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Rice93 Online
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Post: #63
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 11:06 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:28 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:41 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
Quote:And he had a history of heart disease.

And he was collapsing and complaining of a shortness of breat *as* he was being detained.

Yet no evidence of heart attack on the autopsy.

Funny, I read the physical cause of death of 'his heart arrested'. Maybe you didnt read that far. The symptoms of cardiac arrest parallel what was happening there.

Quote:
Quote:Diatribe 'against Twitter experts'? Not at all. More of a diatribe against people that pull them out of their back pocket to support their own predispositon. You should clue into that.

I thought her credentials would give opinions some weight. Certainly more weight than anybody commenting on this thread at least.

And not nearly as much as someone who actually sees and examines the body. Funny that. That is a problem with Dr Twitter in a Can in this instance. As noted, I prefer the actual facts instead of the opinion of Dr Twitter in a Can. I hope you can appreciate the very major differences therein.

Quote:
Quote:I find it strange that you are still on a butthurt roll because I wanted to see what the medical examiner said, as opposed to taking your expert view.

The official medical examiner has spoken, hasnt he? As opposed to your Twitter expert that you rolled out of the woodwork, the findings of the Hennepin County Pathologist say: heart stopped, fentynal, meth, cadiovascualr disease, restraint.

Homicide is what they called it. You left that one out.

I included the physical manifestations of the body (i.e. the physical issues of the body that led to Floyd's death). Please do tell what the physical manifestations of 'homicide' are.

Well you included the term "restraint" which is not a "physical issue of the body" so I wasn't sure were you are going.

What do you think about the cause of death listed on the report when they said: Cardiopulmonary arrest, restraint, neck compression?

I think to read the section "How injury happened" in conjunction with that. That section denotes 'decedent suffered cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by officers.' Period. Had they discussed how the neck compression did this, that might be. Funny, they did not.

Quote:Do you think that the "cardiopulmonary arrest" could be related to the knee in the neck

Perhaps. I dont know.

Quote:or do you think this guy was having a heart attack when he was arrested (but prior to him being kneeled on)?

Again, perhaps. And again, I dont know. You magically do know. Funny that.

As I noted before, had there been medical evidence of asphyxia, there really wouldnt be those questions or doubts. Instead, what we have is somewhat of a hodgepodge in the lack of information there.

Again, I preferred to wait for the pathologists determination prior to kneejerk assuming items. The core thing I take away from this is that you do not. Sound about right?

I didn't see any reasonably likely scenario on the pathology report that would have made the line "killing of George Floyd" inaccurate. Based on what we know know form the medical examiners, I still don't.
06-01-2020 11:11 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #64
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 10:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:05 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 08:59 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 08:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Is there a limit to what is deemed a presidential threat? That seems like a recipe for disaster, having an arm of law enforcement that can use the full force of the law based on a whim.

Sounds like you’re pretty well informed on this issue and there wasn’t a drop of a 1st Amendment violation. Like I said, just saw a bunch of talking on Twitter and haven’t seen much detail.

What is deemed a Presidential threat is a pretty low threshold. Having a mob in the street at the front probably crosses even the most jaded threshold.

If there was a simple peaceful assembly with no history of attacks that werent blocking the street and were in Lafayette Park -- yeah, there might be a 1st Amendment issue.

A mob illegally in the street bounding Lafayette? My guess is no issue in clearing them for 1st Amendment issues.

A mob where in the previous 3 nights 40 or so Secret Service agents had already been injured? My guess is no issue in clearing them for 1st Amendment issues.

The combination of the history and of the illegal presence in the street? That is kind of a no-brainer for for 1st Amendment issues.

If there were 50 people chanting *in* Lafayette Park, with no movement to the street en masse, no illegal occupying of the public thoroughfare, and no immediate history of violence -- yeah there might be a 1st Amendment issue. But none of those factors is there.

I guess press shouldn’t be there either?

Video of an Australian news crew that was huddling in the corner, suddenly advanced upon and assaulted by the police.

https://twitter.com/asb_breaking/status/...86528?s=21

As one anchor put it, what’s interesting is they’re not discriminating between the protestors and media.

I guess if one has the super secret lad world instant press identifier and decoder ring that would be good.

I had a friend who was embedded as a journalist in the First Gulf War -- he got the same level of pissiness when he was shot at from a distance. The press feels the need to get 'into the action' to 'report on the action', yet have prickliness when they get caught up in the action.

Sucks that the press got caught up in a street clearing. **** happens. Color me surprised. The horrors......

When the Secret Service does a 'make the path safe', unless you are pre-vetted to the nth degree you get hauled out. When the Secret Service clears a street that they deem to have danger associated with the denizens, I would assume they arent going to pussyfoot around and do phone checks if someone claims they are a journalist. To their eyes, they dont give a **** if you arent pre-cleared in that situation.

Again, that sucks. But, that is business as usual for that scenario, I would imagine.

Typically, the large camera helps identify press. But they also often wear press badges, clearly identifying they are with the media.

And how exactly does that 'pre-clear' someone from a Secret Service standpoint? Hint: it doesnt. Good grief, put some sense into your comments.

Quote:I just wonder why you’re so happy to defend Trump’s decision (or whoever’s decision it was to send Trump down this road),

Where am I defending his decision to walk there? I guess that since I am not as pissed off as you that he did so, that is 'defending'. I am not surprised at all the Secret Service cleared the fing beejeezus out of the street at that point.

You seemingly think that is a horrible thing.

So, let's turn this around and add some cogent points that have seemingly escaped that razor sahrp diatribe.

What fing right does a mob of people have to occupy a thoroughfare for 5 days straight?

What fing right does a mob have to injure 40 Secret Service people?

You act like they had a god fing given right to be there. Somehow those little stupid issues simply 'pass over' that cute little 'analysis' of yours. Jeezus fing krist on a cracker.

Quote:when a completely reasonable alternative of “not waking unannounced to a nearby church” wouldn’t have provoked an actually peaceful and illegal in nature protest.

FIFY to be a tad more accurate.

Seemingly in lad world it is a Capitol offense to disturb the illegal mob, and weighed against a President deciding to go where he can and has every legal right to go, that should fall in light of the god given right to protest in an illegal manner. Sound about right to you?

In this manner, Trump absolutely is tossing the middle finger at the mob in Lafayette Park at that juncture.

And had that same type of mob not injured 40 Secret service agents in the course of 5 days, or had that mob been somewhat tame in nature in the past, or even if it hadnt shut down thoroughfare for 5 days straight, you might have a point about the relative 'oh so bad' of Trump's decision.

But.... none of those facts are present, are they? So, for the past 5 days the illegal nature(s) of that setting had effectively tossed Trump *their* collective middle fingers? All the while making 40 Secret Service officer need medical treatment.

In lad calculus, apparently how *dare* Trump middle finger the middle fingerers.

I suggest next time, they dont break as many fing laws in the course. Or, perhaps they keep the secret service injuries to a number that can be counted on one hand.

Given the relative issues, it is pretty stupid to go apeshit over the situation. But you make a champion level effort to make it oh so unrighteous (by ignoring the excesses of one side to almost perfection, mind you). Sorry you get pissy when those excesses actually come to the forefront. I suggest you think about them before you go all 'pull the pin on the outrage grenade'.

Quote:Just a stupid ******* decision, and an impressive display on your part carrying water for it.

Quite the level of carrying water for an illegal demonstration. I guess you overlooked that aspect.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2020 11:42 PM by tanqtonic.)
06-01-2020 11:17 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #65
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 11:07 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:40 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I will call a kneejerk assumption a kneejerk assumption. Your kneejerk assumption is still somewhat of a kneejerk assumption.

Not really a kneejerk reaction IMO to call this a killing rather than hedging bet until final report came out. Seemed pretty obvious.

Cute name for a kneejerk reaction.... all without the underlying facts. You know, the facts that you berated me for waiting on. Funny that.

Quote:
Quote:Strangely the Hennepin County pathologist agrees that heart failure was a COD. Strangely you studiously ignore that.

I don't see "heart failure" under COD. I see "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual". Also "restraint". Also "neck compression".

I guess you fail to understand that cardiopulmonary arrest is a sudden loss of blood flow resulting from the failure of the heart to pump effectively. Good grief. I assume just about everything has to explained to you when it isnt the precise words.

That is everything *except* for those things that you inately know as a kneejerk reaction.

Again, as I noted at least several times, "Again, perhaps. And again, I dont know. You magically do know. Funny that.

As I noted before, had there been medical evidence of asphyxia, there really wouldnt be those questions or doubts. Instead, what we have is somewhat of a hodgepodge in the lack of information there."

But keep jumping on that kneejerk knowledge you have going for ya'. Mixes well with the berating of someone whom has the temerity to say 'I'll wait for the pathology report' before I opine and flap my lips about certainties. Be good sparkles.
06-01-2020 11:30 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
Quote:"When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength," Trump replied. "That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak...as being spit on by the rest of the world."

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumpn-t...gth-2019-6
06-01-2020 11:36 PM
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Rice93 Online
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Post: #67
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 11:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:07 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:40 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I will call a kneejerk assumption a kneejerk assumption. Your kneejerk assumption is still somewhat of a kneejerk assumption.

Not really a kneejerk reaction IMO to call this a killing rather than hedging bet until final report came out. Seemed pretty obvious.

Cute name for a kneejerk reaction.... all without the underlying facts. You know, the facts that you berated me for waiting on. Funny that.

Quote:
Quote:Strangely the Hennepin County pathologist agrees that heart failure was a COD. Strangely you studiously ignore that.

I don't see "heart failure" under COD. I see "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual". Also "restraint". Also "neck compression".

I guess you fail to understand that cardiopulmonary arrest is a sudden loss of blood flow resulting from the failure of the heart to pump effectively. Good grief. I assume just about everything has to explained to you when it isnt the precise words.

Correct. Literally the first thing that comes up when you google "Cardiopulmonary arrest" is: Cardiac arrest is a sudden loss of blood flow resulting from the failure of the heart to pump effectively.

It's just when you use the term "heart failure" it sort makes it sound like the underlying issue is cardiac in nature (like a heart attack, a valve problem, or a congenital issue). The underlying issue doesn't seem to be a bad ticker... it seems that his heart finally stopped working due to the issues that the cardiologist outlined.

Quote:That is everything *except* for those things that you inately know as a kneejerk reaction.

Again, as I noted at least several times, "Again, perhaps. And again, I dont know. You magically do know. Funny that.

As I noted before, had there been medical evidence of asphyxia, there really wouldnt be those questions or doubts. Instead, what we have is somewhat of a hodgepodge in the lack of information there."

But keep jumping on that kneejerk knowledge you have going for ya'. Mixes well with the berating of someone whom has the temerity to say 'I'll wait for the pathology report' before I opine and flap my lips about certainties. Be good sparkles.

Berated you? How thin-skinned can you be? You are the one that got on my case for using the term "killing" before there was a final pathology report. A totally weird nitpick as others have mentioned. I went on to defend my POV that the police killed George Floyd. Do you really have a sense that I was berating you? At what point during this conversation did you feel that I was berating you? I think you are the one that pulled out the term "douchebag poster" quite early in this conversation.
06-01-2020 11:46 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #68
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 11:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:07 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:40 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I will call a kneejerk assumption a kneejerk assumption. Your kneejerk assumption is still somewhat of a kneejerk assumption.

Not really a kneejerk reaction IMO to call this a killing rather than hedging bet until final report came out. Seemed pretty obvious.

Cute name for a kneejerk reaction.... all without the underlying facts. You know, the facts that you berated me for waiting on. Funny that.

Quote:
Quote:Strangely the Hennepin County pathologist agrees that heart failure was a COD. Strangely you studiously ignore that.

I don't see "heart failure" under COD. I see "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual". Also "restraint". Also "neck compression".

I guess you fail to understand that cardiopulmonary arrest is a sudden loss of blood flow resulting from the failure of the heart to pump effectively. Good grief. I assume just about everything has to explained to you when it isnt the precise words.

Correct. Literally the first thing that comes up when you google "Cardiopulmonary arrest" is: Cardiac arrest is a sudden loss of blood flow resulting from the failure of the heart to pump effectively.

It's just when you use the term "heart failure" it sort makes it sound like the underlying issue is cardiac in nature (like a heart attack, a valve problem, or a congenital issue). The underlying issue doesn't seem to be a bad ticker... it seems that his heart finally stopped working due to the issues that the cardiologist outlined.

Quote:That is everything *except* for those things that you inately know as a kneejerk reaction.

Again, as I noted at least several times, "Again, perhaps. And again, I dont know. You magically do know. Funny that.

As I noted before, had there been medical evidence of asphyxia, there really wouldnt be those questions or doubts. Instead, what we have is somewhat of a hodgepodge in the lack of information there."

But keep jumping on that kneejerk knowledge you have going for ya'. Mixes well with the berating of someone whom has the temerity to say 'I'll wait for the pathology report' before I opine and flap my lips about certainties. Be good sparkles.

Berated you? How thin-skinned can you be? You are the one that got on my case for using the term "killing" before there was a final pathology report. A totally weird nitpick as others have mentioned. I went on to defend my POV that the police killed George Floyd. Do you really have a sense that I was berating you? At what point during this conversation did you feel that I was berating you? I think you are the one that pulled out the term "douchebag poster" quite early in this conversation.

I am not mentioning 'berating' as I am offended or thin-skinned, it is simply proffered.

Let's review the first two or three posts in this series.

Me? I will wait for the facts before broadly and loudly proclaiming that 'someone killed someone'.

Your response? When that concept is mentioned you respond with (and I quote) LOLOLOLOLOL. Quite the open mind there, sparky.

Douchy response? Imo redneck opinion, yes. (but funny how somehow later you get pissy about that characterization, mind you).

Ignorant response? Perhaps.

I am glad you inately know so many things without a smattering of facts... Quite the fing gift. Can you give me some stock tips?

And more humorously you imply later that you couldnt imagine *any* facts that that might occur that would change your mind.

Did I miss anything from those first two or three posts that are germane at this point? I dont think so.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 12:22 AM by tanqtonic.)
06-02-2020 12:11 AM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
I’m generally pretty pro law enforcement but the level boot licking and excuse making in this thread is something to behold.

That said, the anarchists, opportunists, or whatever they are who looted my local deli can go **** themselves. I’m sure the Arab man from Queens who owns the store is part of the political establishment.
06-02-2020 12:19 AM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #70
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-01-2020 10:27 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Man, all these protestors will feel really stupid when they find out the guy who was restrained and held down to the point of yelling how he couldn’t breathe really died of a heart attack while being pinned down, and not the knee to the neck...

I dont think many of them have much brain power in the first place from the shots that I see.

Even less when the scenes most often devolve to looting, arson, and assault. But, the Russians and the KKK foot soldiers that are the main problem arent known for being insidiously clever in the first place.
06-02-2020 12:29 AM
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Post: #71
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-02-2020 12:11 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:07 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:40 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I will call a kneejerk assumption a kneejerk assumption. Your kneejerk assumption is still somewhat of a kneejerk assumption.

Not really a kneejerk reaction IMO to call this a killing rather than hedging bet until final report came out. Seemed pretty obvious.

Cute name for a kneejerk reaction.... all without the underlying facts. You know, the facts that you berated me for waiting on. Funny that.

Quote:
Quote:Strangely the Hennepin County pathologist agrees that heart failure was a COD. Strangely you studiously ignore that.

I don't see "heart failure" under COD. I see "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual". Also "restraint". Also "neck compression".

I guess you fail to understand that cardiopulmonary arrest is a sudden loss of blood flow resulting from the failure of the heart to pump effectively. Good grief. I assume just about everything has to explained to you when it isnt the precise words.

Correct. Literally the first thing that comes up when you google "Cardiopulmonary arrest" is: Cardiac arrest is a sudden loss of blood flow resulting from the failure of the heart to pump effectively.

It's just when you use the term "heart failure" it sort makes it sound like the underlying issue is cardiac in nature (like a heart attack, a valve problem, or a congenital issue). The underlying issue doesn't seem to be a bad ticker... it seems that his heart finally stopped working due to the issues that the cardiologist outlined.

Quote:That is everything *except* for those things that you inately know as a kneejerk reaction.

Again, as I noted at least several times, "Again, perhaps. And again, I dont know. You magically do know. Funny that.

As I noted before, had there been medical evidence of asphyxia, there really wouldnt be those questions or doubts. Instead, what we have is somewhat of a hodgepodge in the lack of information there."

But keep jumping on that kneejerk knowledge you have going for ya'. Mixes well with the berating of someone whom has the temerity to say 'I'll wait for the pathology report' before I opine and flap my lips about certainties. Be good sparkles.

Berated you? How thin-skinned can you be? You are the one that got on my case for using the term "killing" before there was a final pathology report. A totally weird nitpick as others have mentioned. I went on to defend my POV that the police killed George Floyd. Do you really have a sense that I was berating you? At what point during this conversation did you feel that I was berating you? I think you are the one that pulled out the term "douchebag poster" quite early in this conversation.

I am not mentioning 'berating' as I am offended or thin-skinned, it is simply proffered.

Let's review the first two or three posts in this series.

Me? I will wait for the facts before broadly and loudly proclaiming that 'someone killed someone'.

Your response? When that concept is mentioned you respond with (and I quote) LOLOLOLOLOL. Quite the open mind there, sparky.

Douchy response? Imo redneck opinion, yes. (but funny how somehow later you get pissy about that characterization, mind you).

Ignorant response? Perhaps.

I am glad you inately know so many things without a smattering of facts... Quite the fing gift. Can you give me some stock tips?

Yes. You should invest in Plaquenil. It definitely cures coronavirus.

Quote:And more humorously you imply later that you couldnt imagine *any* facts that that might occur that would change your mind.

Did I miss anything from those first two or three posts that are germane at this point? I dont think so.

I'm still learning here, Tanq. It seems that responding "LOLOLOL" is completely offensive and could be referred to as "berating". QED.

It's just when I see how you respond to various posters here in your trademark manner, I guess I simply assume that this type of response would not even begin to be an issue with you. I would consider "LOLOLOL" to be about a 1.5/10 on the Tanq scale of belligerence TBH.

Apparently you have one set of rules but expect everybody else to adhere to a completely different set.
06-02-2020 12:32 AM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #72
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
Quote:
Quote:I am glad you inately know so many things without a smattering of facts... Quite the fing gift. Can you give me some stock tips?

Yes. You should invest in Plaquenil. It definitely cures coronavirus.

I'll take that as a 'no you wont give me some stock tips from that fountain of prescience and omniscience'.

Quote:
Quote:And more humorously you imply later that you couldnt imagine *any* facts that that might occur that would change your mind.

Did I miss anything from those first two or three posts that are germane at this point? I dont think so.

I'm still learning here, Tanq. It seems that responding "LOLOLOL" is completely offensive and could be referred to as "berating".

Funny, the LOL to a statement that one would prefer facts instead of kneejerk crap does seem berating of the open-mindedness that facts bring. Not 'oh no I am offended', but still berating. My original comment of acting like a douche is actually more spot on as to that immediate response.

But the more I learn of your view on the role of facts and kneejerk inherent knowledge, I am not horribly surprised. We kind of have been to this rodeo before, you know.

Quote:Apparently you have one set of rules but expect everybody else to adhere to a completely different set.

I dont expect anything from anybody. Act like a complete whiny douche -- knock yourself out. No skin off my back. Or preach to everyone about their language --- you go apeshit down that course every so often. Or preach to everyone how everyone should treat everyone else -- now that is topic you an absolute ace number one knock em fing dead PRO at. I guess everyone has those things they absolutely excel at....

And if you act like a whiny douche, I will let you know. Knock yourself out in return.

I am still crushed that you wont use a smidgeon of your omniscience and prescience to give me one little tiny stock tip <sniffle>
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 12:49 AM by tanqtonic.)
06-02-2020 12:47 AM
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Rice93 Online
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Post: #73
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-02-2020 12:47 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
Quote:
Quote:I am glad you inately know so many things without a smattering of facts... Quite the fing gift. Can you give me some stock tips?

Yes. You should invest in Plaquenil. It definitely cures coronavirus.

I'll take that as a 'no you wont give me some stock tips from that fountain of prescience and omniscience'.

Quote:
Quote:And more humorously you imply later that you couldnt imagine *any* facts that that might occur that would change your mind.

Did I miss anything from those first two or three posts that are germane at this point? I dont think so.

I'm still learning here, Tanq. It seems that responding "LOLOLOL" is completely offensive and could be referred to as "berating".

Funny, the LOL to a statement that one would prefer facts instead of kneejerk crap does seem berating of the open-mindedness that facts bring.

If you saw a cop shoot George Floyd in the face would it be a knee-jerk reaction to say “That cop killed George Floyd!”?

What if a witness were to say, “Let’s not rush to judgement here. Let’s wait until we have the final autopsy report before we assign blame to that police officer.” Would you describe that witness as being a) open-minded or b) ridiculous?

This is basically how I feel about our silly discussion.
06-02-2020 01:03 AM
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Post: #74
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
This contretemps just shows some of the difficulties that the prosecution will face in obtaining a conviction.

Can they show the heart attack was the result of the neck compression?
Can they show the officer intended him to die?
Can they show the officer wanted him to die, because he was black?
Can they show that any drugs in his system had no part in the heart stoppage?

It will not be that easy to prove in court.

Doubly so for the other three.
06-02-2020 01:11 AM
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Post: #75
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-02-2020 01:03 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 12:47 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
Quote:
Quote:I am glad you inately know so many things without a smattering of facts... Quite the fing gift. Can you give me some stock tips?

Yes. You should invest in Plaquenil. It definitely cures coronavirus.

I'll take that as a 'no you wont give me some stock tips from that fountain of prescience and omniscience'.

Quote:
Quote:And more humorously you imply later that you couldnt imagine *any* facts that that might occur that would change your mind.

Did I miss anything from those first two or three posts that are germane at this point? I dont think so.

I'm still learning here, Tanq. It seems that responding "LOLOLOL" is completely offensive and could be referred to as "berating".

Funny, the LOL to a statement that one would prefer facts instead of kneejerk crap does seem berating of the open-mindedness that facts bring.

If you saw a cop shoot George Floyd in the face would it be a knee-jerk reaction to say “That cop killed George Floyd!”?

What if a witness were to say, “Let’s not rush to judgement here. Let’s wait until we have the final autopsy report before we assign blame to that police officer.” Would you describe that witness as being a) open-minded or b) ridiculous?

This is basically how I feel about our silly discussion.

And that sums it up perfectly. You assume that a .9mm slug to the head is an equivalent force or destruction than a kneeling on someone.

There is really no doubt what a 9mm slug will do the head.

There actually is an amount of uncertainty to the effects of what that compression will do. But like the ideologue trooper you are, you simply ignore those shortcomings and differences and press on. Atta boy there, chucky boy.

You, in rush to be a 'it must be what social justice demands', simply shrug off any and all uncertainty as to your lordly 'it must be'.

The problem is your example is simply fing rather idiotic and off point. With a healthy dose of rhetorical guaze to it.

A better example, had you known what the fk you were talking about as opposed to just palavering deep in the woods of what you apparently dont know much about, would be a cop shooting someone in the leg. There, there is somewhat of a question of whether that would be fatal or not.

Naw, you just try to equate it to a bullet to the head. Which tells me you really dont have a fing clue about what you are squawking about. Which I guess is another point I should remember.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 04:24 AM by tanqtonic.)
06-02-2020 04:16 AM
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Post: #76
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
Here is the 'genius' of the Minnesota legal mind set:

Police chief of Minneapolis, on the other cops:
Quote:""Being silent or not intervening, to me, you're complicit. So I don't see a level of distinction any different," he said.
"Silence and inaction, you're complicit. You're complicit," he added.

Interesting take. By that standard, I am walking down the street minding my own business, when I see four bank robbers race out of the bank just in front of me. I don't intervene (like I kind of dont want to get shot, right?). And, I am silent, I dont yell out "BANK ROBBERY!!!! ROBBBERS THERE!!!."

Under that brilliant standard, I am complicit.

Yep, no blood in water to take those scalps. Those poor schmucks are so fked it is not even sad...... Think of the poor guy who may go to prison *simply* for having the drawn the black bean lottery ticket of being partnered with Chauvin that day.
06-02-2020 05:04 AM
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Post: #77
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-02-2020 12:19 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I’m generally pretty pro law enforcement but the level boot licking and excuse making in this thread is something to behold.

That said, the anarchists, opportunists, or whatever they are who looted my local deli can go **** themselves. I’m sure the Arab man from Queens who owns the store is part of the political establishment.

Ding, ding, ding.

Those taking advantage of the protests to act out their violent fantasies are the worst of the worst. That spans the unaffiliated anarchist, to the out of control ANTIFA, to the race-stoking opportunist, to the roided our cop.

The explosion of violence is really highlighting how equal opportunity being a ****** person is. I’m at least heartened by the images of good cops working with protestors to keep things peaceful, or the protestors stopping or shaming the vandals and looters.
06-02-2020 05:51 AM
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Post: #78
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-02-2020 05:04 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Here is the 'genius' of the Minnesota legal mind set:

Police chief of Minneapolis, on the other cops:
Quote:""Being silent or not intervening, to me, you're complicit. So I don't see a level of distinction any different," he said.
"Silence and inaction, you're complicit. You're complicit," he added.

Interesting take. By that standard, I am walking down the street minding my own business, when I see four bank robbers race out of the bank just in front of me. I don't intervene (like I kind of dont want to get shot, right?). And, I am silent, I dont yell out "BANK ROBBERY!!!! ROBBBERS THERE!!!."

Under that brilliant standard, I am complicit.

Yep, no blood in water to take those scalps. Those poor schmucks are so fked it is not even sad...... Think of the poor guy who may go to prison *simply* for having the drawn the black bean lottery ticket of being partnered with Chauvin that day.

Are you a police officer in this situation? And if you are, and don’t report it or act, what will happen?
06-02-2020 05:56 AM
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Post: #79
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-02-2020 04:16 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 01:03 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 12:47 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
Quote:
Quote:I am glad you inately know so many things without a smattering of facts... Quite the fing gift. Can you give me some stock tips?

Yes. You should invest in Plaquenil. It definitely cures coronavirus.

I'll take that as a 'no you wont give me some stock tips from that fountain of prescience and omniscience'.

Quote:
Quote:And more humorously you imply later that you couldnt imagine *any* facts that that might occur that would change your mind.

Did I miss anything from those first two or three posts that are germane at this point? I dont think so.

I'm still learning here, Tanq. It seems that responding "LOLOLOL" is completely offensive and could be referred to as "berating".

Funny, the LOL to a statement that one would prefer facts instead of kneejerk crap does seem berating of the open-mindedness that facts bring.

If you saw a cop shoot George Floyd in the face would it be a knee-jerk reaction to say “That cop killed George Floyd!”?

What if a witness were to say, “Let’s not rush to judgement here. Let’s wait until we have the final autopsy report before we assign blame to that police officer.” Would you describe that witness as being a) open-minded or b) ridiculous?

This is basically how I feel about our silly discussion.

And that sums it up perfectly. You assume that a .9mm slug to the head is an equivalent force or destruction than a kneeling on someone.

There is really no doubt what a 9mm slug will do the head.

There actually is an amount of uncertainty to the effects of what that compression will do. But like the ideologue trooper you are, you simply ignore those shortcomings and differences and press on. Atta boy there, chucky boy.

You, in rush to be a 'it must be what social justice demands', simply shrug off any and all uncertainty as to your lordly 'it must be'.

The problem is your example is simply fing rather idiotic and off point. With a healthy dose of rhetorical guaze to it.

A better example, had you known what the fk you were talking about as opposed to just palavering deep in the woods of what you apparently dont know much about, would be a cop shooting someone in the leg. There, there is somewhat of a question of whether that would be fatal or not.

Naw, you just try to equate it to a bullet to the head. Which tells me you really dont have a fing clue about what you are squawking about. Which I guess is another point I should remember.

So your "better" analogy is what if a cop shot somebody in the leg and the question is "Would that be fatal or not?".

The answer to the question of "Will a bullet to the leg be fatal?" is probably: "Hard to say for sure, but probably not".

Upon viewing the video of George Floyd you are asked, "Did that cop kill George Floyd?". Based on your analogy your answer would be along the lines of "Hard to say for sure, but probably not".

Your analogy, to my eye, seems "simply fing idiotic and off point".

You could also use the analogy of a cop shooting him in the belly and he's dead five minutes later. Did the cop kill him? I'm sure you could find an attorney to make the argument that he was freaking out when he was detained and he probably was having a heart attack prior to being shot.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 07:19 AM by Rice93.)
06-02-2020 06:54 AM
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Post: #80
RE: Response to the killing of George Floyd
(06-02-2020 05:56 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 05:04 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Here is the 'genius' of the Minnesota legal mind set:

Police chief of Minneapolis, on the other cops:
Quote:""Being silent or not intervening, to me, you're complicit. So I don't see a level of distinction any different," he said.
"Silence and inaction, you're complicit. You're complicit," he added.

Interesting take. By that standard, I am walking down the street minding my own business, when I see four bank robbers race out of the bank just in front of me. I don't intervene (like I kind of dont want to get shot, right?). And, I am silent, I dont yell out "BANK ROBBERY!!!! ROBBBERS THERE!!!."

Under that brilliant standard, I am complicit.

Yep, no blood in water to take those scalps. Those poor schmucks are so fked it is not even sad...... Think of the poor guy who may go to prison *simply* for having the drawn the black bean lottery ticket of being partnered with Chauvin that day.

Are you a police officer in this situation? And if you are, and don’t report it or act, what will happen?

Don't ask for details, Lad. Let him have his analogies however ridiculous they may be.
06-02-2020 07:06 AM
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