(03-30-2020 07:34 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-29-2020 09:29 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  This was Dr. Raoult’s second successful treatment against the coronavirus.

About this guy...

Quote:But no one should mistake his scientific stature: he has discovered new pathogenic organisms that have been named after him. He is a highly respected and prolific researcher.

This makes his current position all the odder. On the basis of some laboratory evidence and a single poorly controlled study with a small number of subjects and a large number of defects, he has announced to the world that, combined with large-scale diagnostic testing, his drug regime is the solution to the epidemic.

I watched a short lecture that he gave in Marseille, available on YouTube. He drew a contrast between the ineffective response to epidemics in Marseille in the past (in 1720, the city was host to the last epidemic of bubonic plague in Europe) and the effective way that the AIDS epidemic was halted more recently—the former with isolation and quarantine, the latter with diagnosis and treatment, which, he believes, is the model for today as well.

The analogy he drew between AIDS and Covid-19 seemed to me indicative of loose thinking. The differences between the epidemics are too obvious to need enumeration. But does the legal principle applied to witnesses (abandoned, however, in most but not all jurisdictions) of falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus—false in one thing, false in all—apply to a scientist such as Raoult? Clearly not.

The defects of the trial of his drug regime to cure the illness caused by Covid-19, however, are numerous and attracted immediate criticism from scientists. Whether the untreated control patients, in Nice rather than in Marseille, where he works, were matched properly with the treated patients and were therefore true controls, is uncertain. The statistical analysis maximized the benefits—that is, it was on a per-protocol, rather than intention-to-treat, basis.

The two methods of analysis can yield quite different results. Per-protocol analysis looks at the results of those patients who take the treatment as planned. Intention-to-treat analysis looks at the results of all the patents initially selected for treatment, whether or not they complete the treatment, and for whatever reason—including death or intolerable side effects—that they may fail to do so. Obviously, it is easier to obtain a good result with the former method than the latter, though both methods have their place. But to claim potential victory over an epidemic on the basis of a single small trial, whose results have been analysed per-protocol (and even then, in controversial fashion), is premature to say the least.

https://www.city-journal.org/covid-19-tr...ier-raoult

Good grief.

Spend the first half of the article trashing the guys appearance and mocking him as a “ guitar strumming hippie” then casually mention he’s “an esteemed microbiologist who has had pathogens named after him”.


So, Theodore Dalrymple, what exactly is YOUR medical background as “contributor to ‘City Journal’”? The free thinking economic think tank?

I’ll take my shot with the world renowned microbiology pathologist, thx.

(03-30-2020 08:12 AM)appst89 Wrote:  Right on cue, the leftists are arriving to downplay this possible treatment. They want as many dead Americans as possible. Truly despicable people.

I don't think they want dead Americans. They just don't want something Trump touted to work and make him look good.

(03-30-2020 08:12 AM)appst89 Wrote:  Right on cue, the leftists are arriving to downplay this possible treatment. They want as many dead Americans as possible. Truly despicable people.

I truly hate to have to agree...completely....without reservation.

(03-30-2020 08:21 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 08:12 AM)appst89 Wrote:  Right on cue, the leftists are arriving to downplay this possible treatment. They want as many dead Americans as possible. Truly despicable people.

I don't think they want dead Americans. They just don't want something Trump touted to work and make him look good.

It really is that simple and the reason for the post criticising the "hippie". It's to be expected though, sadly. If it works it works. That's good thing, right?

(03-30-2020 08:19 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Maybe, just maybe, it's time to quit listening to all the "experts" and start using some common sense.

If it truly cured 78 out of 80, then I really don't give a rat's ass whether proper protocols were followed or not. It's worth trying.

Let me put it this way. If I were dying of CV-19, then I would do everything in my power to get the chloroquine/z-pack combo. So would you, if you have any sense.

Another Doc in Manhattan or somewhere in the Boroughs (Zalinsky or something close, maybe) had a treatment of the hydroxy and zinc that showed as positive in (I believe) 350 of 350 cases.

NO reason this isn’t in widespread use across the board. Other than Meanie-butt Orange Man touted its possible use WEEKS ago.

Can’t have that.

(03-30-2020 08:27 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 08:21 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 08:12 AM)appst89 Wrote:  Right on cue, the leftists are arriving to downplay this possible treatment. They want as many dead Americans as possible. Truly despicable people.

I don't think they want dead Americans. They just don't want something Trump touted to work and make him look good.

It really is that simple and the reason for the post criticising the "hippie". It's to be expected though, sadly. If it works it works. That's good thing, right?

NOT IF TRUMP SAYS IT IS.

Remember, these are the idiots that were forced into defending Iran, MS13, & China because Trump said they were bad.

(03-30-2020 08:19 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Maybe, just maybe, it's time to quit listening to all the "experts" and start using some common sense.

If it truly cured 78 out of 80, then I really don't give a rat's ass whether proper protocols were followed or not. It's worth trying.

Let me put it this way. If I were dying of CV-19, then I would do everything in my power to get the chloroquine/z-pack combo. So would you, if you have any sense.

it's a dadgum no-brainer...

(03-30-2020 08:31 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 08:27 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 08:21 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 08:12 AM)appst89 Wrote:  Right on cue, the leftists are arriving to downplay this possible treatment. They want as many dead Americans as possible. Truly despicable people.

I don't think they want dead Americans. They just don't want something Trump touted to work and make him look good.

It really is that simple and the reason for the post criticising the "hippie". It's to be expected though, sadly. If it works it works. That's good thing, right?

NOT IF TRUMP SAYS IT IS.

Remember, these are the idiots that were forced into defending Iran, MS13, & China because Trump said they were bad.

Ah, you mean those ms13 animals with the “spark of divinity”?

These people are certifiably f#%*ing crazy. Just nuts.

(03-29-2020 11:24 PM)Kronke Wrote:  Trump was right again, his instincts are impeccable.

Whitmer should resign in disgrace tomorrow morning at 8am. What a loser.

If a democrat was speaking that would read impeachable....

I see no reason why something that is already in widespread use to prevent/cure another disease cannot be fast-tracked in very short order, nor any reason why it cannot be approved for any patient willing to assume the risk immediately. Particularly considering the urgency of the circumstances, we don't need 18 months of controlled clinical trials, or even 12 or even 6, nor can we afford them.

Bureaucrats gotta bureaucrat. FDA saved us from thalidomide half a century ago, and they've been living off that ever since. They do some good work, but they can be amazingly pedantic when given the opportunity. Trump told them to fast track, they say they are fast tracking. I hope so. But I also think that anybody who wants it should be able to get it now, since it has already cleared Phase I for other uses. That means it's not going to make hair grow out of your eyeballs, or any other nasty side effects. But frankly, if I were dying of CV-19, I would happily take it now and deal with the hairy eyeballs later.

And for those of you who hate big Pharma, consider this. The cost of navigating all the way through the FDA loops and hurdles can run up to $100 million. And the chance of success at the start is about 1%. Nobody can afford those odds except big Pharma. So whenever some researcher comes up with a new cure, he/she has no opportunity to get it to market except to sell it to big Pharma. Monopolies exist because of barriers to entry, and FDA provides an amazingly high barrier to protect big Pharma.

(03-30-2020 08:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I see no reason why something that is already in widespread use to prevent/cure another disease cannot be fast-tracked in very short order, nor any reason why it cannot be approved for any patient willing to assume the risk immediately. Particularly considering the urgency of the circumstances, we don't need 18 months of controlled clinical trials, or even 12 or even 6, nor can we afford them.

Bureaucrats gotta bureaucrat. FDA saved us from thalidomide half a century ago, and they've been living off that ever since. They do some good work, but they can be amazingly pedantic when given the opportunity. Trump told them to fast track, they say they are fast tracking. I hope so. But I also think that anybody who wants it should be able to get it now, since it has already cleared Phase I for other uses. That means it's not going to make hair grow out of your eyeballs, or any other nasty side effects. But frankly, if I were dying of CV-19, I would happily take it now and deal with the hairy eyeballs later.

And for those of you who hate big Pharma, consider this. The cost of navigating all the way through the FDA loops and hurdles can run up to $100 million. And the chance of success at the start is about 1%. Nobody can afford those odds except big Pharma. So whenever some researcher comes up with a new cure, he/she has no opportunity to get it to market except to sell it to big Pharma. Monopolies exist because of barriers to entry, and FDA provides an amazingly high barrier to protect big Pharma.

There was a lot of cost from Thalidomide before its use got stopped. Had a college roommate who was born without a foot.

(03-30-2020 09:07 AM)bullet Wrote:  There was a lot of cost from Thalidomide before its use got stopped. Had a college roommate who was born without a foot.

Thalidomide was used extensively in Canada. I was working in Boston and flew home one Christmas Eve. The aircraft came from Montreal and was about half full with Canadians. There was this family sitting across the aisle from me with a teenage son whose hands had six fingers, arranged kind of like a raptor's claws, three on each side. All I could think of was "Thalidomide." He was actually very proficient with them, but that has to be difficult.

there is a reason Africa hasnt been hit as hard with this...Chloroquine

Its in frequent use for malaria

(03-30-2020 09:12 AM)solohawks Wrote:  there is a reason Africa hasnt been hit as hard with this...Chloroquine

Its in frequent use for malaria

I bet many of those countries have lots of covid infected people. The bulk of those populations don't have access to hospitals and doctors, so no testing. Probably a million people die of malaria annually, most in Africa and the majority are children.

Chinese are all over especially sub saharan Africa.

(03-30-2020 09:12 AM)solohawks Wrote:  there is a reason Africa hasnt been hit as hard with this...Chloroquine

Its in frequent use for malaria

I believe the governors in question should be formally charged with practicing medicine without a license (assuming they are not doctors).

At the risk of causing a run, get yourself some tonic water and drink a bit every day.

(03-30-2020 10:15 AM)Claw Wrote:  At the risk of causing a run, get yourself some tonic water and drink a bit every day.

Ha!

I wondered if quinine was related.

My dad never asked for a gun and tonic, always gin and quinine. Got him a lot of puzzled looks, likely a Minnie-sota type thing.

(03-30-2020 09:12 AM)solohawks Wrote:  there is a reason Africa hasnt been hit as hard with this...Chloroquine

Its in frequent use for malaria

and/or, earth tilt...

ref: SAF now, or view the global land mass in plan view in relativity...

Isn't this what the gov of Michigan banned