(04-01-2020 03:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The thing that really worries me is how easily the American people have allowed the government to strip away Constitutional rights during all of this.'

That actually worries me more than the virus. Shows what can be done if you scare enough people.

(04-01-2020 03:52 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(04-01-2020 03:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The thing that really worries me is how easily the American people have allowed the government to strip away Constitutional rights during all of this.'

That actually worries me more than the virus. Shows what can be done if you scare enough people.

I don;t think many people are asserting today that there isn't something real here to deal with and warranting some responsive measures. But the difficulty is in ascertaining if these extreme measures are truly warranted to the fullness of the extent they are, especially given their cost and return. We still don;t seem to have much granular data on this, but plenty of rough aggregate data has been splashed across the airwaves in such an alarmist fashion that it appears at least somewhat irresponsible.

Some will blame the President, but I think most of those blame him for everything whether it is reasonable to or not, and those people can be ignored. Some would place blame on a 24/7 media that is desperate for the next scoop or big story amid generally flagging ratings and lower advertising revenues, which includes most of the mainstream media that by and large leans left to heavy-left to far, far left.

To wit: one of the thing no media is apologizing for is their hypocrisy about border control and the lack of it, while at the same time decrying the lack of knee-jerk shutdowns. You can't have it both ways: Border control issues exacerbated this problem, and show how we need to better control our borders regardless of this virus or not. To wit: the drug situation and the President's response today. Of course, the drug situation would not be a problem at all if there was no demand. So if you wish to blame anyone, blame drug abusers, whether prescription or otherwise, since their demand for this junk causes the death, crime and destruction that hurts others. yet, funny, no one seems too concerned about the tens of thousands that die from drugs and their related crimes and maladies each and every year in all 50 dang states. Again-you can't have it both ways: if this coronabug demands so many lockdowns and economy-killing measures to prevent a few extra deaths, then why the hell doesn't drug abuse demand the same when it kills far more, affects far more with the crime, imprisonment, court and social welfare costs, etc... and no one cares? I'm looking at you California, Colorado, et al.

My big problem with why I call this an over-reaction is not that I don;t think there is some real thing here and some cause for some action. It's that the response is not consistent with how we treat other, totally preventable things that are within our control and just let and accept thousands upon thousands of those deaths and unpleasant societal and family consequences each and every year without batting an eye.

Liberals and lefties especially sicken me with their ability to scream bloody murder on the airwaves for a person who was already ill with several co-morbidities dying of coronabug, yet at same time yell and scream for the "right" to kill women and children by the thousands and genocidal millions each and every day and year just to cover up their bad behavior and irresponsible choices. Pick one, please. You can't have it both ways.

About 3,000 babies per day are murdered willfully in the USA--why is no one screaming about that (except the babies screaming as they are murdered)? THAT is a deadly statistic I am concerned about and want to take measures to stop, especially when all of those deaths are completely unnecessary. Where's the daily news counters for that?

Screaming headline from media: "More than 1,000 in US die in a single day from coronavirus"

Real headline that is almost nonexistent in news: "More than 3,000 die from abortion Every Single Day"

Concerned about unnecessary Death? Really? You sure about that?
What are YOU doing to stop all this death?
End Abortion Today!

(04-01-2020 03:52 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(04-01-2020 03:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The thing that really worries me is how easily the American people have allowed the government to strip away Constitutional rights during all of this.'

That actually worries me more than the virus. Shows what can be done if you scare enough people.

That's b/c when enough people are truly frightened, they are willing to give up freedom for security. I would rather provide my own security.

(04-01-2020 03:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The thing that really worries me is how easily the American people have allowed the government to strip away Constitutional rights during all of this.'

This can’t be expressed enough. There are simply not enough people echoing this sentiment. Perhaps it’s a little early into this pandemic, perhaps we have become apathetic to the loss of little freedoms.

The reality is when this is over our government will have a blueprint on how to control the populace. That in its self should be as scary as this virus is to all of us.

(04-01-2020 03:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The thing that really worries me is how easily the American people have allowed the government to strip away Constitutional rights during all of this.'

"But it's only a temporary inconvenience until we get a handle on this situation!" The same thing was said about the USA-PATRIOT Act and here we are still living under it's provisions 14 years and three months after it was supposed to expire.

I'll be damned you just found something we are in complete agreement on.

(04-01-2020 03:52 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(04-01-2020 03:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The thing that really worries me is how easily the American people have allowed the government to strip away Constitutional rights during all of this.'

That actually worries me more than the virus. Shows what can be done if you scare enough people.

it should....

I'm reminded of the buffalo's behavior in a storm. When a storm comes up on the plains, buffalo do not seek shelter and wait it out. Instead, they move as one herd running directly into the storm. This reduces their time in the storm, greatly lessening their chances of injury.

In this instance we as a country should take a lesson from the buffalo.

We have taken extraordinary measures, crippling our economy for who knows how long. US citizens have willingly given up countless rights and freedoms while making a plea for the mighty govt. to save them. "Normal" may never exist again, at least if many of the left wing politicians get their way when this is over.

We think ourselves smarter than the buffalo, and we are in fact smarter. However, we do not need to ignore natural instincts that have diminished in our own species as our 'control' over nature grew but still exist in wild animals. I would propose a change in course of action by April 15th. It's time for the 'buffalo' among us to go back to work. We can shelter and protect the elderly, compromised, and most vulnerable though isolation while the young and healthy take the first steps to getting this country back on it's feet.

This is no different than any storm a buffalo faces or any other natural disaster that we face. It's a cat 5 hurricane that just made landfall over the entire US. Those of us that deal with things like hurricanes know the drill. Be prepared, take care of yourself, help your neighbor, run through the storm, assess the damage, and get ready for the next.

As most of y'all have seen from some of my posts, I am keeping an eye on the CDC Pneumonia and Flu numbers for this year to see if this CoVid-19 outbreak death and hospitilization numbers are running in line with the typical Pne. and Flu numbers. My theory is just that. The most recent week of data on the CDC site is week 11 of this year which ended Friday March 21(two weeks ago). The week 12 data is summarized but not included in the Spread Sheet. The data is on the graph however, and it indicates a miraculously dramatic DECREASE in the number of Pne. and flu cases as a whole. This raises my suspicions. I'm also a little suspicious why the spread sheet is not updated with the week 12 numbers. If you hit the link for the spreadsheet you will see that the Week 11 numbers are drastically low for the history of the data which goes back 6 1/2 years, much less compared to the same WTD for last year.

Week 11 of 2019-Total Deaths for the week=57,869, Pne deaths=3979, Flu=510
Week 11 of 2020-Total Deaths for the week=37,641, Pne deaths=2431, Flu=365
Total deaths in America for week 11 2020 is the lowest amount in the data and it is nearly 10,000 fewer than the second lowest number. And the Pneumonia deaths of this same week is the lowest number for a week in the data and over 1500 fewer than the same Week to date as last year. If the Week 12 numbers are EVER inputted and they fall even lower than week 11, I will be all but convinced the CoVid numbers are taking place of what typical numbers would be and therefore mean this has been around for a while. And fewer people died in America for Week 11 than any previous week during the past 6 1/2 years.
CDC Weekly Pne and Flu death data spreadsheet.

(04-03-2020 08:07 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  I'm reminded of the buffalo's behavior in a storm. When a storm comes up on the plains, buffalo do not seek shelter and wait it out. Instead, they move as one herd running directly into the storm. This reduces their time in the storm, greatly lessening their chances of injury.

In this instance we as a country should take a lesson from the buffalo.

We have taken extraordinary measures, crippling our economy for who knows how long. US citizens have willingly given up countless rights and freedoms while making a plea for the mighty govt. to save them. "Normal" may never exist again, at least if many of the left wing politicians get their way when this is over.

We think ourselves smarter than the buffalo, and we are in fact smarter. However, we do not need to ignore natural instincts that have diminished in our own species as our 'control' over nature grew but still exist in wild animals. I would propose a change in course of action by April 15th. It's time for the 'buffalo' among us to go back to work. We can shelter and protect the elderly, compromised, and most vulnerable though isolation while the young and healthy take the first steps to getting this country back on it's feet.

This is no different than any storm a buffalo faces or any other natural disaster that we face. It's a cat 5 hurricane that just made landfall over the entire US. Those of us that deal with things like hurricanes know the drill. Be prepared, take care of yourself, help your neighbor, run through the storm, assess the damage, and get ready for the next.

Interesting take. Thanks for posting.

(04-03-2020 09:16 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 08:07 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  I'm reminded of the buffalo's behavior in a storm. When a storm comes up on the plains, buffalo do not seek shelter and wait it out. Instead, they move as one herd running directly into the storm. This reduces their time in the storm, greatly lessening their chances of injury.

In this instance we as a country should take a lesson from the buffalo.

We have taken extraordinary measures, crippling our economy for who knows how long. US citizens have willingly given up countless rights and freedoms while making a plea for the mighty govt. to save them. "Normal" may never exist again, at least if many of the left wing politicians get their way when this is over.

We think ourselves smarter than the buffalo, and we are in fact smarter. However, we do not need to ignore natural instincts that have diminished in our own species as our 'control' over nature grew but still exist in wild animals. I would propose a change in course of action by April 15th. It's time for the 'buffalo' among us to go back to work. We can shelter and protect the elderly, compromised, and most vulnerable though isolation while the young and healthy take the first steps to getting this country back on it's feet.

This is no different than any storm a buffalo faces or any other natural disaster that we face. It's a cat 5 hurricane that just made landfall over the entire US. Those of us that deal with things like hurricanes know the drill. Be prepared, take care of yourself, help your neighbor, run through the storm, assess the damage, and get ready for the next.

Interesting take. Thanks for posting.

My theory is being proven. The CDC now says this regarding Pneumonia deaths and CoVid-19.
CDC Week 12 numbers NOW including CoVid19 deaths.

Quote:While the percent of all deaths due to P&I has increased during weeks 9-12 (7.4-8.2%), the percent of all deaths with Influenza listed as a cause have decreased (from 1.0% to 0.8%) over this same time period. The increase in pneumonia deaths during this time period are likely associated with COVID-19 rather than influenza.

The numbers are still MUCH lower than the same Week to Date from last year. In other words more people died from Pneumonia last year at this time than this year when we have shut the country down.

(04-03-2020 08:07 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  I'm reminded of the buffalo's behavior in a storm. When a storm comes up on the plains, buffalo do not seek shelter and wait it out. Instead, they move as one herd running directly into the storm. This reduces their time in the storm, greatly lessening their chances of injury.

In this instance we as a country should take a lesson from the buffalo.

We have taken extraordinary measures, crippling our economy for who knows how long. US citizens have willingly given up countless rights and freedoms while making a plea for the mighty govt. to save them. "Normal" may never exist again, at least if many of the left wing politicians get their way when this is over.

We think ourselves smarter than the buffalo, and we are in fact smarter. However, we do not need to ignore natural instincts that have diminished in our own species as our 'control' over nature grew but still exist in wild animals. I would propose a change in course of action by April 15th. It's time for the 'buffalo' among us to go back to work. We can shelter and protect the elderly, compromised, and most vulnerable though isolation while the young and healthy take the first steps to getting this country back on it's feet.

This is no different than any storm a buffalo faces or any other natural disaster that we face. It's a cat 5 hurricane that just made landfall over the entire US. Those of us that deal with things like hurricanes know the drill. Be prepared, take care of yourself, help your neighbor, run through the storm, assess the damage, and get ready for the next.

Amen. Great perspective.

What Ps'es me off is that I think those people, mostly elderly, who would probably succumb to the flu/pne. suddenly come up with the virus and then die from it are being included in the statistics of Covid. If we didn't have the virus these people would have been part of the statistics of deaths due to the flu/pne. but now instead it's the Covid that did them in. We hear of so many important, young, otherwise healthy people getting it and I have yet to hear that they're dying. We've had athletes, royalty, congress people, etc. etc...and they're still kicking. Why don't we include those people in the statistics? I think it's because the Cons don't want to appear that they're not taking this virus seriously but in the end the evil Demoncraps won't ever accept anything this administration does. Even in those circumstances where the Demons were telling people not to take it seriously, ala Peloser, the NYC Health Secretary, the Lurch of a NY Mayor are now blaming Trump for the "hoax" statement which is untrue to began with.

I think now that we have a sort of cure for it we should treat this virus like we do the flu and go about our business of conducting business. We can't wait forever or else we will REALLY be doomed. Our country cannot be quarantined forever like the Demons want us to. We'd be falling into their hands of creating panic and hoping that this crisis will unseat Trump. It'll never work as common sense folk know how this started and will still vote for Trump, I know I will. I would've hated to be under a Demoncraptic rule during this virus, then we'd really be doomed.

Rant over.

(04-03-2020 02:01 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  What Ps'es me off is that I think those people, mostly elderly, who would probably succumb to the flu/pne. suddenly come up with the virus and then die from it are being included in the statistics of Covid. If we didn't have the virus these people would have been part of the statistics of deaths due to the flu/pne. but now instead it's the Covid that did them in. We hear of so many important, young, otherwise healthy people getting it and I have yet to hear that they're dying. We've had athletes, royalty, congress people, etc. etc...and they're still kicking. Why don't we include those people in the statistics? I think it's because the Cons don't want to appear that they're not taking this virus seriously but in the end the evil Demoncraps won't ever accept anything this administration does. Even in those circumstances where the Demons were telling people not to take it seriously, ala Peloser, the NYC Health Secretary, the Lurch of a NY Mayor are now blaming Trump for the "hoax" statement which is untrue to began with.

I think now that we have a sort of cure for it we should treat this virus like we do the flu and go about our business of conducting business. We can't wait forever or else we will REALLY be doomed. Our country cannot be quarantined forever like the Demons want us to. We'd be falling into their hands of creating panic and hoping that this crisis will unseat Trump. It'll never work as common sense folk know how this started and will still vote for Trump, I know I will. I would've hated to be under a Demoncraptic rule during this virus, then we'd really be doomed.

Rant over.

What the CDC data indicates is the cause of death on a death certificate will be Pneumonia. CoVid-19 is just another bug that causes Pneumonia. Until the pneumonia death gets higher than 6,000 a week, which is does from time to time, CoVid-19 is not killing any more people than typical pneumonia if those deaths are considered pneumonia deaths by the CDC.

I'm truly concerned for those folks who have a serious case of the effects of this virus. If I was in an old folks home I'd be extremely worried. I have some elderly folks to deal with myself. It's weird seeing all the folks in masks, and many without, standing in lines 6 or more feet apart, waiting to get into stores, selectively empty shelves (everybody wants to cook pasta, but there's plenty of lasagna left--no one knows how to make that?) etc...

Still, no matter how things are going, we are getting closer to the time where governments will have to accept the difficult facts that they cannot protect everyone from everything, and we have to get our economy and people back to work. There is no way to avoid some consequences with this thing...there is no way to know who may have it and be contagious without testing every single person, which is impossible logistically to do right now and for the foreseeable future. We have to release people back and let the thing run its course.

I've also seen information that there may well be additional waves of this reemerging periodically as outbreaks after the initial peak of this wave. We just cannot afford to keep things this closed down every time it happens.

There are areas and certain hospitals where things are bad. Those need to be the focus of the most drastic measures. There are many areas where the models say thousands more should already be dead/dying/hospitalized, and these models are grossly overstated. We should not be shutting all those areas down completely.

America has to work. the best stimulus plan is to let the mighty American economy show its power, while maintaining some reasonable and careful measures in public while we put resources towards treatment of those who do fall ill severely to this and finding a vaccine for it so we can inoculate folks eventually against it.

Too, we should demand, the world should demand places like China that maintain Wet Markets to close those permanently and shift their people away from those practices, as they seem to be the places where these weird new diseases and viruses breed and transfer to the human population. We should categorically refuse to do any business with China or any other country who allows Wet Markets of this type that helped to cause this.

(04-04-2020 01:58 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  I'm truly concerned for those folks who have a serious case of the effects of this virus. If I was in an old folks home I'd be extremely worried. I have some elderly folks to deal with myself. It's weird seeing all the folks in masks, and many without, standing in lines 6 or more feet apart, waiting to get into stores, selectively empty shelves (everybody wants to cook pasta, but there's plenty of lasagna left--no one knows how to make that?) etc...

Still, no matter how things are going, we are getting closer to the time where governments will have to accept the difficult facts that they cannot protect everyone from everything, and we have to get our economy and people back to work. There is no way to avoid some consequences with this thing...there is no way to know who may have it and be contagious without testing every single person, which is impossible logistically to do right now and for the foreseeable future. We have to release people back and let the thing run its course.

I've also seen information that there may well be additional waves of this reemerging periodically as outbreaks after the initial peak of this wave. We just cannot afford to keep things this closed down every time it happens.

There are areas and certain hospitals where things are bad. Those need to be the focus of the most drastic measures. There are many areas where the models say thousands more should already be dead/dying/hospitalized, and these models are grossly overstated. We should not be shutting all those areas down completely.

America has to work. the best stimulus plan is to let the mighty American economy show its power, while maintaining some reasonable and careful measures in public while we put resources towards treatment of those who do fall ill severely to this and finding a vaccine for it so we can inoculate folks eventually against it.

Too, we should demand, the world should demand places like China that maintain Wet Markets to close those permanently and shift their people away from those practices, as they seem to be the places where these weird new diseases and viruses breed and transfer to the human population. We should categorically refuse to do any business with China or any other country who allows Wet Markets of this type that helped to cause this.

You can load up on veggie meat right now. Things haven't gotten that bad yet.

(04-04-2020 02:13 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  You can load up on veggie meat right now. Things haven't gotten that bad yet.

No, I'm not talking about normal things like beef, pork and chicken, but the bats, cats and all that 'exotic" crap that seems to be where this comes from, or breeds and transfers more readily. As for veggie "meats" and plant-based imitations, no thanks. That stuff tastes like crap and is full of chemicals way more toxic than a regular beef burger or hot dog.

(04-03-2020 09:13 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  As most of y'all have seen from some of my posts, I am keeping an eye on the CDC Pneumonia and Flu numbers for this year to see if this CoVid-19 outbreak death and hospitilization numbers are running in line with the typical Pne. and Flu numbers. My theory is just that. The most recent week of data on the CDC site is week 11 of this year which ended Friday March 21(two weeks ago). The week 12 data is summarized but not included in the Spread Sheet. The data is on the graph however, and it indicates a miraculously dramatic DECREASE in the number of Pne. and flu cases as a whole. This raises my suspicions. I'm also a little suspicious why the spread sheet is not updated with the week 12 numbers. If you hit the link for the spreadsheet you will see that the Week 11 numbers are drastically low for the history of the data which goes back 6 1/2 years, much less compared to the same WTD for last year.

Week 11 of 2019-Total Deaths for the week=57,869, Pne deaths=3979, Flu=510
Week 11 of 2020-Total Deaths for the week=37,641, Pne deaths=2431, Flu=365
Total deaths in America for week 11 2020 is the lowest amount in the data and it is nearly 10,000 fewer than the second lowest number. And the Pneumonia deaths of this same week is the lowest number for a week in the data and over 1500 fewer than the same Week to date as last year. If the Week 12 numbers are EVER inputted and they fall even lower than week 11, I will be all but convinced the CoVid numbers are taking place of what typical numbers would be and therefore mean this has been around for a while. And fewer people died in America for Week 11 than any previous week during the past 6 1/2 years.
CDC Weekly Pne and Flu death data spreadsheet.

To be fair, the social distancing and lock downs being used to control Covid-19 would drastically reduce the incidence of all other infectious diseases as well. In fact, the lock down measures currently in place in most of the country affects other hospital admissions too. Look at accident and trauma data. Its all down drastically during that period vs a year ago....after a period of being under "stay at home" orders---I suspect domestic violence is going start rising above normal numbers.....along with a spike in divorce filings when this is all over.

Not really sure where to post this but I guess you could say I’ve had time to think. Wearing my tin foil hat.

7500-8k deaths a day on average in the U.S.

March 1st was when the first covid-19 related death was reported in the U.S.

It’s April 4th & we are just now reaching the equivalent to 1 day of deaths in the U.S. compared to total # of coronavirus deaths.

Something not adding up. I think we are being duped and numbers are being padded.

The pollen just dropped and that’s when this virus really took off in the U.S. I had a runny nose for a few days, beginning a couple of mondays ago, and that was when the pollen really fell at our house. Two days before the hoops tournaments began to be cancelled.

There’s not going to be a search for truth. Half of us are doing what the Potus says(because we trust him) and are also worried about the economy. The other half are happy to get their handouts at home and watch the economy be destroyed in hopes it gets the sitting president removed.

We need to keep our vulnerable at home and make adjustments for them to do their shopping separate from us, regardless. While we find a vaccine. however, folks need to be allowed to go back to work.

Probably could ask, well how do you explain what’s happening in New York, Washington, Michigan, Cali, and Louisiana? Well, what are the normal amount of deaths per day in those places. also, what are your common numbers per day during flu season?

China has 1.4 billion people. Four times the population of the U.S.
We know they underreported, but even if their stats are as high as suspected and what’s being leaked. That shouldn’t affect us as we should expect they’d have 4 times more cases or deaths than us. That goes back to..... what are the normal amount of deaths country wide per day or during their flu season per day? Do I believe that 50k-60k ppl died in wuhan? now that’s padding numbers.

Wuhan’s population is 11 million. Has 3200 people per square mile. New York City(8.3 million people) has 28000 people per square mile. No wonder why this virus is having such an effect.

Why do I mention padding numbers? You know why. People are dying from many other things and being labeled as a coronavirus death when it isn’t warranted. Italy admitted they had that issues and now we’ve seen that issue in the states.

Removes tin foil hat.

Why are 77% of infectious disease doctors registered Democrats?
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/upsho...ocrat.html

Here’s another page worth giving a look.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archi...ts/502688/


Maybe this is all far beyond my understanding, but stuff isn’t adding up and theres not much being done to give explanations for this or that.

Duran Duran's John Taylor delivers hopeful message after recovering from COVID-19: ‘It isn't always a killer'

Quote:Duran Duran bassist John Taylor has revealed that he tested positive for the coronavirus “almost three weeks ago,” but he reassures fans that he is on the mend — and that his recovery is a hopeful example that COVID-19 “isn't always a killer.”

“Perhaps I am a particularly robust 59-year-old — I like to think I am — or was blessed with getting only a mild case of COVID 19 — but after a week or so of what I would describe as a ‘Turbo-charged Flu,’ I came out of it feeling okay,” Taylor commented Sunday evening.

“I am speaking out in answer to the enormous amount of fear being generated by the pandemic, but I want to let you know that it isn't always a killer, and we can and will beat this thing.