(02-19-2020 02:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  UNC has done pretty well against them over the course of history.

Undefeated in football and 7-1 in hoops.

All of this is true enough. And it bears no relevancy to the quality of the teams you're fielding present day.

How many major college football tickets are you going to sell into one metro area? Duke, UNC, and NC State are selling almost 900,000 tickets into the market just for football and another 900,000 into the market for basketball. The only reason Duke gets an average of $200 a ticket for basketball is because there are so few seats (about 6500 per game) versus the demand. If State and UNC still played in Reynolds or Carmichael that would mean 350,000 fewer tickets for those two to sell for basketball.

This is before taking into account East Carolina football, Carolina Hurricanes hockey, and Carolina Panthers football all three of which provide an alternative entertainment pathway for people's dollars in the region.

Dukes graduates tend not to stay in NC. You can't tailgate at Kenan Stadium. You can't park at Wallace Wade. The students can't walk to Carter-Finley. About 30 years ago some folks tried to float the idea of a communal stadium in the center of the Triangle. It of course died the death the idea deserved. It is a clear advantage in football to be the only game in town in a community that is not impacted by direct competition for entertainment dollars. In the ACC these towns are Tallahassee, Clemson, Syracuse, Louisville, Charlottesville,and Blacksburg. Winston Salem to a lesser degree. Of course this has been the formula in Happy Valley, Columbus, Tuscaloosa, and Knoxville, etc.

(02-19-2020 02:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 11:43 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 11:27 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 11:18 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 02:59 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:   I was secretly thinking the same thing...

UNC thought they were asking about the entire season instead of each game. So yeah, they were telling the truth.

Didn’t your school have to fight tooth and nail for an exception to avoid demotion to 1-AA due to horrible attendance?

His team would also handily beat yours in football and basketball and maybe even baseball right now. Just sayin'.

UNC has done pretty well against them over the course of history.

Undefeated in football and 7-1 in hoops.

Why don't you throw some of that weight around and get us on the schedule?

It's a bad look for anyone associated with Carolina to attempt to paper over the long-term cheating. As a Carolina graduate myself and with dozens of relatives who have gone through Carolina, the lie was the "Carolina Way" when the reality was Dean Smith promised your mother that you would get a degree. I don't fault that and NC State's pride in tossing out a stupid ball player is nothing to be proud of since both schools are exploiting an athlete. But as someone once said "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't trying"

(02-19-2020 02:51 PM)Statefan Wrote:  How many major college football tickets are you going to sell into one metro area? Duke, UNC, and NC State are selling almost 900,000 tickets into the market just for football and another 900,000 into the market for basketball. The only reason Duke gets an average of $200 a ticket for basketball is because there are so few seats (about 6500 per game) versus the demand. If State and UNC still played in Reynolds or Carmichael that would mean 350,000 fewer tickets for those two to sell for basketball.

This is before taking into account East Carolina football, Carolina Hurricanes hockey, and Carolina Panthers football all three of which provide an alternative entertainment pathway for people's dollars in the region.

Dukes graduates tend not to stay in NC. You can't tailgate at Kenan Stadium. You can't park at Wallace Wade. The students can't walk to Carter-Finley. About 30 years ago some folks tried to float the idea of a communal stadium in the center of the Triangle. It of course died the death the idea deserved. It is a clear advantage in football to be the only game in town in a community that is not impacted by direct competition for entertainment dollars. In the ACC these towns are Tallahassee, Clemson, Syracuse, Louisville, Charlottesville,and Blacksburg. Winston Salem to a lesser degree. Of course this has been the formula in Happy Valley, Columbus, Tuscaloosa, and Knoxville, etc.

If you offer a desirable product on the field people will come. If you put mediocrity on the field for 30 plus years then you get to make stupid excuses.

(02-19-2020 03:08 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:51 PM)Statefan Wrote:  How many major college football tickets are you going to sell into one metro area? Duke, UNC, and NC State are selling almost 900,000 tickets into the market just for football and another 900,000 into the market for basketball. The only reason Duke gets an average of $200 a ticket for basketball is because there are so few seats (about 6500 per game) versus the demand. If State and UNC still played in Reynolds or Carmichael that would mean 350,000 fewer tickets for those two to sell for basketball.

This is before taking into account East Carolina football, Carolina Hurricanes hockey, and Carolina Panthers football all three of which provide an alternative entertainment pathway for people's dollars in the region.

Dukes graduates tend not to stay in NC. You can't tailgate at Kenan Stadium. You can't park at Wallace Wade. The students can't walk to Carter-Finley. About 30 years ago some folks tried to float the idea of a communal stadium in the center of the Triangle. It of course died the death the idea deserved. It is a clear advantage in football to be the only game in town in a community that is not impacted by direct competition for entertainment dollars. In the ACC these towns are Tallahassee, Clemson, Syracuse, Louisville, Charlottesville,and Blacksburg. Winston Salem to a lesser degree. Of course this has been the formula in Happy Valley, Columbus, Tuscaloosa, and Knoxville, etc.

If you offer a desirable product on the field people will come. If you put mediocrity on the field for 30 plus years then you get to make stupid excuses.

You give Clemson fans a bad name, more importantly you don't get how supply and demand work in an urban market. Rural VFD politics and economics just don't scale up like you think

(02-19-2020 03:12 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:08 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:51 PM)Statefan Wrote:  How many major college football tickets are you going to sell into one metro area? Duke, UNC, and NC State are selling almost 900,000 tickets into the market just for football and another 900,000 into the market for basketball. The only reason Duke gets an average of $200 a ticket for basketball is because there are so few seats (about 6500 per game) versus the demand. If State and UNC still played in Reynolds or Carmichael that would mean 350,000 fewer tickets for those two to sell for basketball.

This is before taking into account East Carolina football, Carolina Hurricanes hockey, and Carolina Panthers football all three of which provide an alternative entertainment pathway for people's dollars in the region.

Dukes graduates tend not to stay in NC. You can't tailgate at Kenan Stadium. You can't park at Wallace Wade. The students can't walk to Carter-Finley. About 30 years ago some folks tried to float the idea of a communal stadium in the center of the Triangle. It of course died the death the idea deserved. It is a clear advantage in football to be the only game in town in a community that is not impacted by direct competition for entertainment dollars. In the ACC these towns are Tallahassee, Clemson, Syracuse, Louisville, Charlottesville,and Blacksburg. Winston Salem to a lesser degree. Of course this has been the formula in Happy Valley, Columbus, Tuscaloosa, and Knoxville, etc.

If you offer a desirable product on the field people will come. If you put mediocrity on the field for 30 plus years then you get to make stupid excuses.

You give Clemson fans a bad name, more importantly you don't get how supply and demand work in an urban market. Rural VFD politics and economics just don't scale up like you think

Your stupid excuse overlooks the fact that NC State isn't restricted from drawing it's ticket base to just Rawlee. The people who tailgate three spots down from us at each and every Clemson home game come right past all those insurmountable entertainment options you list in the Triangle from their home in Rocky Mount to come to Clemson.

Put a desirable product on the field and you'll be able to draw huge crowds, and ones that don't leave at halftime and not come back because the tailgate is more interesting than the actual game.

(02-19-2020 11:55 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 11:43 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 11:27 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 11:18 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 02:59 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:   I was secretly thinking the same thing...

UNC thought they were asking about the entire season instead of each game. So yeah, they were telling the truth.

Didn’t your school have to fight tooth and nail for an exception to avoid demotion to 1-AA due to horrible attendance?

His team would also handily beat yours in football and basketball and maybe even baseball right now. Just sayin'.

Thank you, Mr. Swagger.

But to answer the question...

If you are referring to the 1970's, like 40+ years ago, you may have a point.

However, since then we engaged in what is known as "development" of our program and have advanced it to better ourselves.

We don't just lay around on FSU's couch and raid Clemson's fridge, we're go-getter's.

80’s, but the point remains: attendance smack doesn’t look good coming from you.

(02-19-2020 02:57 PM)Statefan Wrote:  It's a bad look for anyone associated with Carolina to attempt to paper over the long-term cheating. As a Carolina graduate myself and with dozens of relatives who have gone through Carolina, the lie was the "Carolina Way" when the reality was Dean Smith promised your mother that you would get a degree. I don't fault that and NC State's pride in tossing out a stupid ball player is nothing to be proud of since both schools are exploiting an athlete. But as someone once said "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't trying"

Low blow!

(02-19-2020 04:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:57 PM)Statefan Wrote:  It's a bad look for anyone associated with Carolina to attempt to paper over the long-term cheating. As a Carolina graduate myself and with dozens of relatives who have gone through Carolina, the lie was the "Carolina Way" when the reality was Dean Smith promised your mother that you would get a degree. I don't fault that and NC State's pride in tossing out a stupid ball player is nothing to be proud of since both schools are exploiting an athlete. But as someone once said "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't trying"

Low blow!

I see you caught that.

I could not resist. I could never have done something that subtle with Kap.

Wallace Wade parking issues?

News to me. I parked for free in the Chemistry Lot. Threw a tailgate for over 120 Cuse fans. No issues save for the parking Nazi in a golf cart.

(02-19-2020 06:17 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Wallace Wade parking issues?

News to me. I parked for free in the Chemistry Lot. Threw a tailgate for over 120 Cuse fans. No issues save for the parking Nazi in a golf cart.

Syracuse is hardly an example of parking attendance at a Duke FB game and yes things a little better with the new deck, but it's still a **** hole for parking. https://goduke.com/sports/football/stats...core/10979

16486 for Syracuse last year.

For comparison there was 31974 for NC State in 2008 - a bad NC State team.

32,300 for winless in conference NC State team in 2013.

When attendance at WW goes above about 28K it gets damn difficult to park. Back in the 30's - early 60's when WW would see crowds of 40-50K you could park all over campus, all in the Duke Forest, and up and down old US 15/501 as well as in the fields below the stadium.

Neither Duke, nor Carolina made parking for football a priority over the last 50 years and in both cases the Hospitals and the local politics made it even more difficult. Had NC State not built CF off campus at the Old Biology Pond and Astronomy fields you would have an ever worse problem in Raleigh wedged between the Railroad Tracks and Pullen Park.

Having been to Wallace Wade I can attest it's a solid 1-2 mile walk to anywhere you could plausibly park. Kenan isn't better and there's actual people competing for parking.

Parking at Carolina is a problem.
There are only 7,000 parking places on campus. All of the spaces except a few public spots are controlled by the Rams Club.
If you want a parking space, you have to join the Rams Club (annual contribution of $1500 gets one parking space ((football only)) ).

(02-19-2020 07:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 09:55 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I'm not surprised by UNC numbers given the reduced capacity and the Mack Brown effect.

I agree with NC State scheduling. They could definitely generate more revenue with better scheduling.

Marginally better revenue, I'll grant you. But at best, we are only talking one more game a year when you could sell a couple of thousand more tickets. They will still want to have a buy game to pad the W-L record for bowl purposes, and that one will have empty seats most of the time. You only improve your scheduling (that is, make it more challenging) with home and home opponents. So 7 home games means means you only have room for one G5 and one FCS at least half the time.

So which is better - more W's or a few more tickets sold? That's always going to be the question, and not just for NC State.

Depends on who is on the other side of the W. Wins against Delaware, Furman, etc. have no meaning. They may get you bowl eligible but it will be a crap bowl and your will probably lose money. If you happen to lose it's a HUGE negative.

I'm not saying they have to schedule a LSU every year but they can more ticket revenue for a WV vs VMI. Fans would buy more stuff and it would look better to bowl reps.

Mortgage your home if you want a parking space on campus for basketball season.

(02-19-2020 08:02 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Having been to Wallace Wade I can attest it's a solid 1-2 mile walk to anywhere you could plausibly park. Kenan isn't better and there's actual people competing for parking.

I walked at least a mile to the stadium when I was at the 11/9 ND/Duke game.

(02-19-2020 10:43 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 08:02 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Having been to Wallace Wade I can attest it's a solid 1-2 mile walk to anywhere you could plausibly park. Kenan isn't better and there's actual people competing for parking.

I walked at least a mile to the stadium when I was at the 11/9 ND/Duke game.

The walk at UVa is about the same.
Whether you park at the Fontaine research center or JPJ Arena/UHall the walk is about a mile, but the parking is free.

(02-20-2020 08:26 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 10:43 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 08:02 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Having been to Wallace Wade I can attest it's a solid 1-2 mile walk to anywhere you could plausibly park. Kenan isn't better and there's actual people competing for parking.

I walked at least a mile to the stadium when I was at the 11/9 ND/Duke game.

The walk at UVa is about the same.
Whether you park at the Fontaine research center or JPJ Arena/UHall the walk is about a mile, but the parking is free.

FWIW: Having spent some months living in Europe, Asia, and Mexico, I can tell you that walking a mile is no big deal outside of the United States. A Spanish woman once told me I could take the bus to my destination - about 5 miles away - or I could "just walk". I took the bus, but in her mind that was a waste of money.

(02-19-2020 06:33 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 06:17 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Wallace Wade parking issues?

News to me. I parked for free in the Chemistry Lot. Threw a tailgate for over 120 Cuse fans. No issues save for the parking Nazi in a golf cart.

Syracuse is hardly an example of parking attendance at a Duke FB game and yes things a little better with the new deck, but it's still a **** hole for parking. https://goduke.com/sports/football/stats...core/10979

16486 for Syracuse last year.

For comparison there was 31974 for NC State in 2008 - a bad NC State team.

32,300 for winless in conference NC State team in 2013.

When attendance at WW goes above about 28K it gets damn difficult to park. Back in the 30's - early 60's when WW would see crowds of 40-50K you could park all over campus, all in the Duke Forest, and up and down old US 15/501 as well as in the fields below the stadium.

Neither Duke, nor Carolina made parking for football a priority over the last 50 years and in both cases the Hospitals and the local politics made it even more difficult. Had NC State not built CF off campus at the Old Biology Pond and Astronomy fields you would have an ever worse problem in Raleigh wedged between the Railroad Tracks and Pullen Park.

I can attest to the fact Cuse had almost as many fans as Duke had. In reality there was probably 12K there. I guess we we're lucky that the Duke fans disappeared in mid November.

I'll keep that in mind the next time we play at Duke in late 20's that parking can be bad if both our teams are good ( a lot of suppositions lol)